Prolegomena to a Guide for the Emerging Yoga Shaman

"While our modern secular culture denies the existence of a spiritual dimension to life, many of our popular postsecular movements of mysticism still refuse to address the question of spirits. Philosophers such as Ken Wilber tend to reduce them to psychological tropes or delusions. Based on my own experiences, I strongly suspect we need to attain a more sophisticated understanding of how spirits may operate, as well as a set of techniques for dealing with them, before we can approach higher states and stages of development. We cannot have "Spirit" without spirits." --Daniel Pinchbeck, Toward 2012: Perspectives on the Next Age, p. 4
I begin with Daniel's quote because not only did it speak to me personally when I first read it, but no doubt if you are a member of Reality Sandwich/Evolver, you also share this sentiment. Perhaps you, like me, wonder whether and how the paths of yoga and shamanism intersect, and how accessing non-ordinary states of consciousness (NOSC) might be helpful for us yoga practitioners in the West. You might also have wondered what use psychoactive aids, or "plant sacraments," have for the contemporary yoga practitioner, especially those of us who have told that it is not a "pure" yogic path, and not one that has much to do with the ultimate goal of moksha (liberation).
Let's begin by looking at how yoga and shamanism can be seen as distinct disciplines, viewing it from the perspective of a very well-regarded scholar of yoga, Georg Feuerstein, who has done quite a bit of research into this very subject.
Feuerstein's most current published view on the relationship between Yoga and Shamanism to date is as follows:
"The development of Yoga's heritage spans at least five millennia and may go back into the dim past of the early Neolithic age. Conceivably, Yoga emerged out of the Shamanism of the Paleolithic, but at this point in our knowledge of Yoga's history this is mere speculation. Certainly Yoga and Shamanism have many features in common, though the final purpose is quite distinct: Whereas Yoga aims at spiritual liberation (moksha), Shamanism is primarily concerned with what in Yoga would be called the 'subtle dimension' and with so-called magical feats and healing service to the community." (p. 35)
That said, Feuerstein will be the first to admit that
shamanism is widespread even today in India, particularly among the Shaivites, or yogis who follow the tradition of Shiva. Thus in the 2005 film, "Origins of Yoga: Quest for the Spiritual," Feuerstein makes the following assertion:
"Many yogis also fulfill the role of the shaman, whereby they serve the community as healers, magicians, wise men, and so on."
One only need look at the practices and of the Naga Babas (the most radical of Shaivites) to see unmistakable signs of shamanism: Use of psychoactive herbs (ganja, datura, etc.), ecstatic dance and song, the use of the dhuni (firepit) which confers healing and blessing upon the community, asceticism, siddhis (magical powers), initiatory rites, etc. Dr. Wolf-Dieter Storl, writing in his book Shiva: The Wild God of Power and Ecstasy, comments that, "When confronted with the image of Shiva, an anthropologist will most likely think of a Super-Shaman," (p. 34), as Shiva, in the form of Nataraja, Lord of the Dance, carries a drum in one hand, and a fire in the other.
Feuerstein's reply to this is that, yes, it is true that many yogis fulfill the role of the shaman, yet the domain of the yogi (or yogin) extends beyond that of the shaman:
"The yogin's ultimate purpose, however is to go beyond the subtle levels of existence explored by the shaman, and to realize the transcendental Being, which is transdimensional and unqualified, and which the yogin knows to be his innermost identity. Thus, whereas the shaman is a healer or miracle-worker, the yogin is primarily a transcender. But in the spiritual ascent to the transcendental Reality, the yogin is likely to gather a great deal of knowledge about the subtle realms (sukshma-loka). This explains why many yogins have demonstrated extraordinary abilities and have long been looked upon by the Indian people as miracle workers and magicians. From the yogic point of view, however, the paranormal abilities possessed by many adepts are insignificant by comparison with the ultimate attainment of Self-Realization, or enlightenment." (The Yoga Tradition, p. 95)
In other words, to use the language of Ken Wilber, the yogi "transcends and includes" the shaman -- the role of the shaman tends to be part of the yogi job description, yes, but that job description also entails exploring and embodying the causal realms, not only the astral planes. Yet it is important to note here that Feuerstein does not discount the importance of the yogi's consciously familiarizing him or herself with the subtle planes of existence (via astral travel, use of psychoactives, etc.), both for the sake of her own evolution, but also to serve as a healer and intermediary for the community. In other words, while not the goal, for Feuerstein there's certainly a place for shamanism in Yoga.
But what of Feuerstein's supposition that the shaman does not access the causal dimensions, while the yogi can and does? Is there any evidence to support such a claim? This brings us back to the original quote from Daniel, and into a scholarly debate that has been going on for some time between Stanislav Grof and Ken Wilber.
I'm not sure how aware Daniel was of this debate when he made his criticism of Wilber, but Grof and other transpersonal psychologists have been leveling similar critiques for years. In his critical essay, "Ken Wilber's Spectrum Psychology," in which Grof confronts Wilber on a number of key points, Grof makes the following statement, almost as if directly responding to Feuerstein as well:
"Shamanic literature, as well as the personal experiences of many anthropologists with shamans, leaves little doubt that they regularly have spiritual experiences not only of the subtle realms, but also of the causal realms."[i]
No doubt Feuerstein would argue that we're talking here about the over-arching goals or premises of shamanism and yoga, not what some yogis or shamans might actually access in their own personal experience. Both Feuerstein and Wilber seem to hold the great Indian sage, Ramana Maharishi[ii] in very high esteem, and they would no doubt suggest that in the world of shamanism we don't find individuals who have similarly attained to Ramana's level of consciousness.
While this is a point well worth deeply considering and probing, Grof would no doubt suggest that shamans are on the same path of integration, and access many of the same levels in their NOSCs, as perhaps even Ramana Maharishi did in his years of solitude on Arunachala on his way to ultimately becoming the universally honored sage he subsequently became.[iii] However, as I am not as familiar with shamanism as I am with yoga, I cannot directly point to a personage in the wide world of shamanism who clearly reached a similar pinnacle in their evolution.
Let me just add a personal note here, though, and say that during my own initial ayahuasca experience -- the most harrowing, hallowing episode of this earthly incarnation, I hasten to add (next to my birth, which I don't remember) -- I did feel as if it were a kind of shamanic initiation, involving a profound sense that egoic body-mind complex was being dismembered and ultimately reconstituted. Once the final re-integration was complete, I experienced myself (Self) as "pure awareness" devoid of egoity. At that point, there were no more "vrittis," or mental modifications, to use the language of the Yoga Sutras, I was truly in the state of Yoga. In simpler terms, I was experiencing the causal ground of Being, at this point, not any astral dimension but a "transpersonal" state of consciousness.
Put simply, my shamanic journey took me through the astral into the causal, and ultimately back into a sense of "ahamkara," or narrow self-consciousness -- "The Box" -- though a considerably expanded box, to be sure.
Now, Wilber does not deny the reality of these experiences for the experiencer, but he does seem to distinguish between what he calls "back door" (or "regressive") transpersonal experiences, and "front door" experiences. The former are induced via therapies such as Holotropic breathwork, rebirthing, psychedelics, hypnosis, etc., whereas the "front door" experiences come about spontaneously through practices such as meditation and other "consciousness disciplines."[iv]
To get a better understanding of what Wilber means by all of this, let's "listen" to an excerpt from a somewhat less formal talk with the Integral philosopher. Please note that here Wilber's humorous but derogatory designation "druggies" could substitute for the "back door" men, and "meditators" for those who do It through the front door:
"My sense is that the people I know that have done it responsibly, have gained a lot from using psychedelics to open up a certain space. But there are downsides. Particularly in this movement, you find there are two general approaches to consciousness studies. One is the druggies, and one is the meditators.
"And the druggies are into altered states, and the meditators are into stages. And the meditators believe that you have to actually discipline and work and it's four years, ten years, fifteen years, to reach a stable realization of these higher states and stages. And the psychedelic or drug side is much more into altered states, ayahuasca, LSD, any sort of number of altered states, and they don't tend to get into permanent realizations based on these things.
"I happen to believe that both of these models -- I use states and stages -- I believe both of them are required. But there's kind of an acrimony between these two groups. There are very few people that do drugs and are serious meditators. And the people that only do drugs, I think eventually it kind of tends to catch up in a way. I don't see permanent realization coming from these things, I don't see permanent access to some of these higher states, and I think at some point the simple neurological noise of the ingredients starts to almost outshine the luminosity that was there, perhaps, at the beginning.
"And so the people I know that I've watched over thirty years that have done only drugs have becoming increasingly, frankly, unpleasant people, and disillusioned, and sad, in certain ways. It's not to say that meditators do all that much better, but there is at least a chance with meditators that you can have a permanent realization that is enduring and not merely a transitory state.
"I think people do better if they either have a judicious combination of the two, or if they do mostly meditation. And my recommendation is don't just do drugs, because people tend to get into trouble, and the theories I see coming out of people that just do drugs are frankly pretty wacky theories. They don't take enough evidence into account, they are not inclusive enough, they don't include other types of data and evidence and I think they' re very partial."[v]
So there you have it. Of course, although Wilber doesn't mention Grof or Mckenna by name, they are to be numbered among "the druggies" whose theories are "pretty wacky." You'll note that this interview was from April, 2001, almost exactly one year after Mckenna's passing due to brain cancer, possibly caused by extensive use of high doses of psychedelics (Terence himself suggested it was due to his cannabis use).[vi]
Although I sense that there is general support for the Pinchbeck-Mckenna-Grof side of things among those who are reading this essay, and my own current view is that it seems about time that we emerging yoga shamans start to use "any means necessary" and available to us to explore the inner and outer Cosmos, I do feel that Wilber's general point here is very valid, namely that a combination of entheogens AND meditation seems to be the wisest route. Let ayahuasca be the means of cleansing the doors of perception, if that is your path, but further elaborate and deepen into such expanded states of consciousness via slower, more stable means such as a meditative discipline.
That said, I don't know that we can really make such sweeping judgements about "druggies" like Mckenna. I don't see him as having been unpleasant, disillusioned, or sad, as Wilber suggests (nor Grof, for that matter), and actually I feel much more inspired by him and Grof at this point than I ever have by Wilber. I sense the reason could be that Wilber's use of psychedelics is rather limited -- he openly admits that one long LSD experience in college pretty much scared him away from psychedelics, until he got into MDMA in the early ‘80s, making a point to note that it was still legal then (though E is not a psychedelic per se) -- and I really feel that it is a cardinal principle of debate that one really shouldn't theorize about what one has not personally experienced in a direct, intimate way. How can Wilber really talk about these Transpersonal therapies without taking them for a spin himself? Test out an actual sacrament like ayahuasca, else be accused of armchair philosophy!
To be fair, perhaps Mckenna, Grof, and company also have not done their homework in terms of having a spiritual discipline that they can use as a framework to inform their own models of reality, and it could be that they do not fully comprehend what Wilber is getting at. The same might be said for those of us who would throw out the guru model and eastern metaphysics without actually ever having had a deep encounter with them. I sense that this may be one of the greatest blind spots of the contemporary entheogenic community.
For myself, though, I appreciate that neither Mckenna nor Grof were ever bent on establishing a Kosmic "theory of everything" as Wilber has been. I see that rather, they have always been more intent on pointing to the Dark Side of the Moon, to the Mystery, and showing us ways that we can become more Wonder-filled by invoking and evoking the Mystery. So to invoke Ken Kesey's immortal words:
"The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer -- they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer."
I would add that the need for experience of the Mystery is what I'm getting at. Theories and models will always have their value and use, because really only experience + understanding will equal a true change in perspective, but when it comes down to it, talk is cheap, and the hard work is actually taking the plunge into the Unknown and then coming back down to earth and actually embodying the wisdom we've been gifted.
Bringing this Back Down to Earth...
So to bring this all into the intense present moment, there is a shift happening in the world of yoga in connection to shamanistic practice, particularly the use of plant sacraments like ayahuasca. This has actually been happening for some time now, but it's really only the past few years that the older generation of yoga teachers who had been using ayahuasca for decades have begun to speak about it more openly. To take one example, Ganga White, one of the top yoga teachers in the world, quite openly spoke on the subject in his recently published, Yoga Beyond Belief:
"I touch on the topic of plant sacraments because it is a timely subject and something I am repeatedly asked about."
White continues, "There are neural pathways in the brain that are more ancient than our beliefs, philosophies, and religious proscriptions. There are keys to the doorways of the rich interior landscape that open dimensions of beauty, order, intelligence, immense complexity, and sacredness beyond measure. These realities can be so powerful, brilliant, and intense that, while visiting them, our world seems like a distant hallucination, in the way that these other realities can seem hallucinatory from this one. Seeing and being touched by these mystical experiences can change us and help us in positive ways with insights into self-healing, enlightened living, and the wholeness of life. Our bodies and brains operate on chemical messengers and information exchange systems in nature. Some scholars and evidence show that medicinal plants were probably at the origin or religious and mystical experience. To say plant sacraments are unnatural, and practices, rituals, and belief systems created by man are natural, is an absurdity. It is a shame that fear and conditioning can preclude the greatest journey...within."[vii]
Now, these are the words of a master Hatha yogi who has been on the yoga path for some 40+ years and has himself studied with some of the great yoga masters, and I for one did not take them lightly when I read them a couple of years ago. Indeed, White's comments were one of the factors that influenced me to further explore plant medicine, and to write a book on the subject. This was not an easy decision on my part, because I, like many Hatha yoga practitioners, was so very careful of what I put into my body and had a great fear of causing it permanent damage, not to mention simply messing with my yoga practice. But what I subsequently learned from my plant journeys, interestingly enough, is that it is precisely the over-identification with the body (bordering on obsession, for some) that needs to be released in order for one's ego boundaries to be bridged. Again, this is an understanding that would seem to be of utmost value to those who are utilizing the technology of Hatha yoga as means of self-transcendence.[viii]
There are many other reasons why a yoga practitioner might find taking ayahuasca helpful, both personally and for the healing of our communities and planet. As for the latter, I appreciated what Daniel said during his dialogue with Sharon Gannon on ayahuasca[ix], particularly his points that the yoga community has tended to become insular and elitist, and his suggestion that we're in a time that calls for people like us modern yogis and yoginis, who are already familiar with moving through uncomfortable spaces, to consider the value plant sacraments might have for us now in this time of rapid shifts on the planet.
I can relate to these points as I've experienced the insularity and elitism firsthand, the kind that sadly shakes its head when the subject of "drugs" comes up, and I have also seen for myself how the ayahuasca experience can move one through some very uncomfortable spaces, thus making it that much easier to deal with real world events and issues. Of course, this is what work "on the mat" does, albeit in a slightly less dramatic way (though even that can be very intense for some -- a Bikram class, for example); a plant shamanic journey just accelerates the process. That certainly was my experience. If I may paraphrase Timothy Leary's famous quote slightly: I learned more during my first session with ayahuasca than I had in 13 years on my yoga mat.
We can also look at it this way: Some of us now have spent years disciplining our bodies in a rather extreme way, supposedly so that we might prepare our physiology for intense "Samadhi" moments, to become fit vessels to "hold" an intense amount of energy and not get fried, but rather be able to navigate "uncomfortable" spaces in a fully conscious way. Well, if you're like I was, you might well wonder from whence such experiences will come? They probably won't come from Hatha yoga itself, and also almost certainly not even from Raja yoga (the path outlined in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras), unless you are a very devoted, disciplined meditator. No, it seems to me that such experiences will come through shamanic journeying, and particularly through the use of plants in a sacramental, yogic way. Could it be that this is why we have been doing all of these intense practices, contortions and the like?[x]
Here's a wonderfully expressed statement from a RS/Evolver member who is also a yoga teacher who uses ayahuasca as a sacrament, having been influenced to do so by another internationally recognized yoga teacher of the older generation. In a private email interview, I had asked her what ayahuasca meant to her as a yoga teacher and practitioner, and here's what she replied:
"Like many yogis, I am very interested in the nature of consciousness. Isn't that why we do yoga? As such, I've explored both traditional and less traditional ways to shift my perception of reality -- and, yes, that includes working with various entheogens in a sacred setting. Without getting into the details of when, where and with whom, I'd say I have done a reasonable amount of work with ayahuasca and I've always experienced it as a powerful medicine -- healing, transformative and liberating on the most profound levels. I so appreciate the fact that the work I do in ceremony builds on, and is harmonious with, the work I do on my mat. For me, ayahuasca is a teacher who speaks poignantly to the challenges of the Kali Yuga [the so-called "dark age of materialism"]; little wonder she is slowly finding her way into the mainstream."
To return again to Daniel's point about exploring the world of spirits, what in yoga is termed the astral or subtle realm, we live in such a materialistic society and age that even we yoga people need reminders that there's a whole lot more going on here than what we experience through our five senses. And maybe the spirit world and beings from other star systems really do want to connect with us via these plant modalities?
Maybe we are meant to consciously alter our DNA as part of the next stage of evolution of humanity? Maybe the plant sacraments really are the true, original teachers of humanity who were sent here long ago to save us from ourselves -- at this precise point in history? The evidence suggests that this is all the case, but ultimately we really don't know.
What I sense we do know is that just understanding intellectually that "All is One," and that we should just "Be Present," or having someone tell us that some day some way we might have an experience that this is so, is really not satisfying. We want to fully have the experience first, and then use that experience as a model for how we might live more in union, in presence.
To truly arrive at a state of presence, there very well may be a lot of "shaking up" that might be required.
To sum up this "prolegomena," which is to say this very preliminary discussion, what I have tried to open up as a possibility is our seeing that there really is a place in yoga for shamanic practices, particularly the use of "plant sacraments." And to say not only is there a place for these things, but there might be a necessity for these things right now in terms of healing our fractured selves, communities, and planet, and that yoga is one of the most effective disciplines for "preparing the ground," so to speak, for the harvest, as well as for "riding out the storm." Oh yogi/ni, why have you made of your body a fit Temple for the Divine if not for this purpose?
Footnotes:
[i] See Stanislav Grof, M.D., "Ken Wilber's Spectrum Psychology," @ http://primal-page.com/grofken.htm.
Another wonderful book by Grof which is really a must read for those interested in these subjects is Grof's recent offering, When the Impossible Happens: Adventures in Non-Ordinary Reality. Sounds True, Incorporated, 2005. Particularly interesting are Grof's accounts of his meeting with Swami Muktananda, as well as his chapter on his experience with 5-MeO-DMT.
[ii] Here's but one website dedicated to Ramana Maharishi (or, "Maharshi"): http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org . One book which I would highly recommend that everyone read or re-read is Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi, particularly the chapter entitled "The Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar," as that goes into some detail about what the "subtle" (astral) and "causal" planes are like. Not that we should take this is as the last word on the subject, but just to familiarize ourselves with one highly influential view.
[iii] Grof quotes John Perry: "True mystics occasionally reactivate regressive complexes on their way to mature unity states," and goes on to say: "In spite of the fact that Ken acknowledges frequent mysterious invasion of transpersonal insights in psychotic patients, mysticism remains for him miles apart from psychosis. It represents for him a purely transegoic progression, whereas psychosis is primarily characterized by a regression to early infancy in the service of the ego."
[iv] See Ken Wilber, The Eye of the Spirit: An Integral Vision for a World Gone Slightly Mad. Shambhala, 1998, pp. 165-185. In these pages, Wilber for the first time in writing confronted Grof's criticisms of his work. This needs to be read along with Grof's essay in response (see above).
[v] Excerpted from a 2001 interview between Wilber and Piers Clement, available here:
http://www.geocities.com/piers_clement/wilber1.html
[vi] There's a discussion of what might have been the cause of Terence's death @ http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1696452.
[vii] Ganga White, Yoga Beyond Belief: Insights to Awaken and Deepen Your Practice. North Atlantic Books, 2007. Danny Paradise is another top yoga teacher who has been an influential advocate of plant sacraments for many years. For an interview with him in which he directly speaks to some of the same issues, check out the following podcast: http://kmo.livejournal.com/408508.html.
[viii] From email correspondence with White and from speaking with one of his students, I understand that even though White made that statement, he still has been rather guarded about what he makes public about his use of plant sacraments. He apparently will only talk about it with his students when the subject is broached. I sense that this will all change in the next couple of years, that there will be far more openness in the yoga community about these subjects.
[ix] You can watch the video of their dialogue, "Asanas and Ayahuasca," at http://www.realitysandwich.com/asanas_and_ayahuasca. You will also want to read all of the comments posted. My own view of what some called a "fiasco," is that it might have gone over better if Daniel had been dialoguing with a yogini, such as Padmani, who is both a yoga teacher and a regular user of plant sacraments like ayahuasca.
[x] I also sense that it is precisely those of us who have been perhaps overly physically-oriented in our life and yoga practice that actually need a high dose of something, anything to bust through the layers of egoity. This idea will take a good deal of unpacking and I’ll leave that for a separate piece.
Image by Ha Pe Gera, courtesy of Creative Commons license.
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Comments
Being There ... Getting There
First and foremost all truth already lies inherent ... it is only ones "maya" that either yoga, or shamanic paths "clear" ...
Once clear ... the entheogen and yoga techniques are left behind .. the spirit be'ith all unto itself at that point
The goal of Yoga is to Yoke ... with each and every of all ... always.
This yoking incudes the "entrainment" of all indigenous "garden of eden substances" {food/medicine/entheogen... in their natural, holistric, state.
Leaving Eden ... is but the very good and evil judgement on anything that has "spirit"
Just like each of us have our unique "constitution" {ayur-vedic etc} ... each of us will find various spiritual humor's .. or rasa's ... in relation to things unique unto ones disposition.
All understanding and experience follow this path /pathos/pathology alone.
Lest of course we continue to make a big deal out of good and evil interpretations of experience itself.
To eat off the "tree of life" means to take the "tapa" "austerity" of yoga, along with the bliss ...
For the Shaman ... having to bear "seeing" all versions of lifes fruits while in high states of consciousness
{like both Buddha/Mara .. Jesus/Satan ... seeing all versions of heaven and hell ...while fasting /meditating .. visions yogi's and shamans both live & die for ..
Well guess what .. one cannot even get to see an entheogenic vision unless he is in a state of "yoga"
Some say these substances keep one limited to the subtle planes. yet the very meaning of "Entheogenic" would mean "entrainment with the genius of theos" ... literally.
Hallucination literaly means {syllable break down} hallowed {holy} lucidity ...
There is virtually no difference between a shaman and a yogi outside of judgement.
So many yogis get side tracted by yoga siddhis and other fringe yoga fruits ... so, so many ... way more than the majority accprding to Krsna himself in the Bhagavad Gita .. "one out of millions of Yogis comes to know truth in full" ...{quote}
True Shamans who are that far down the path are just as rare
So many stories of "not the best" shamans out there in South America ... fair amount of disappointing stories ... shamans caught up in this litle maya ... that ... not representing true sacredness of wholeness.
The sheer synergy of entrainment with a true entheogenic substance ... with a true heart ... is but a yoga all of it's own
Experienced as subtle for the subtle ... gross for gross ... and transcendental for the transcendentalists ... just like yoga ... cent per cent.
Yogis at evey level ... Shamans at every level
Jnana Yoga -Buddhi Yoga -Bhakti Yoga... none of these yoga's are dependent on Hatha or Astanga yoga per se ...
One cannot connect to spirit unde any condition without one of these paths being lightened up by ones consciousness ... by hook or by crook.
Not everyone gets there by entheogens ... yoga ... prayer/meditation/work-karma
... yet one finds every conscious being at different stages of enlightenment ... irregardless of each other.
Yoga styles and lineages come and go ... like unlimited versions of Buddhism and Chritianity etc ... Same with Shamanic lineages ... endless variety at every level of quality imaginable ...
Yet each of us act as though we still had something to say to one another as if one has ever been able to contain the choice .. or know the experience of another.
No need to carry one another when each of us can walk alone... each having the same access to all paths
Edited Postnote:
Another point is the relative concern of how taking an Entheogenic substance somehow or other cheats one out of the longer "relatively" drawn out progressive yogic path ... which could stretch out to lifetimes according to the Yoga philosophy.
However the general understanding of all teachings of Karma/Dharma clearly state that whether doing Yoga/doing entheogens ... or just being a hard working karmi {fruitive materialist} ...
Knowledge truth, visions of revelation etc ... only really come when there is "maturity of soul"
Entheogens are no more a definiitive quick fix than the path of yoga is a sure thing.
Only when one is "ready" can anything of actual value really happen.
The "analysis of technique" is certainly not the limit of understanding experience.
As we leave this information age behind trying to determine value with ones own mind {tree of knowledge} ... will be forsaken for more "quantum intuition" ... possibility over probability. will become the new motto
A Yoga meditation is an entheogenic experience ... and a Shamanic entrainment with a psycho-active plant substance is a true yoga.
community
Thanks Reality Sandwich, & Drew & Pippalayana for your comments
Will reply to comments soon, but just want to notify everyone that a much revised and expanded version of this essay can be found here:
http://www.evolver.net/user/allowah/blog/prolegomena_guide_emerging_yoga...
I also want to post a comment that Metanoid posted on Evolver:Great postMetanoid — Aug 18, 2009
In my experiences with psychedelics I always had a sense that the spiritual practices that preceded my involvement with the substances laid the groundwork for the amazing spiritual experiences I have had in that "revelation space", and felt compelled to begin practicing yoga and sattvic living in order to be better able to participate in the entheogenic experience. I suspected that yoga may have originally been established along the lines of being sort of exercises for the psychonaut, and perhaps with the loss of Soma what had originally been preparatory and "upkeep" sort of work took on a status of attempting to fulfill the whole work.I was frequently sort of "told" (by spirit or intuition, I am unsure of what I make of the difference at the moment) that I should work on the areas of physical and mental conditioning dealt with in yoga before coming back to the psychedelic realms if I wanted to gain the most from them.It has always seemed odd to me that so many practitioners of yoga and other similar arts can be so dismissive of the psychedelic experience as they seemed to me to natural augment one another.
Thanks for the article, it's very well done. It's also added fuel to my resolve to get back into yoga.Metanoidenergy is pure delight - Blake
Nice article
THESE
this is a topic I relate to
this is a topic I relate to easily. I started off as an unqualified psychonaut with NO metaphysics to relate to after my initial experiences. I would recommend a thorough study of one of the perennial philosophies before indulging in the use of entheogens, even that would not of course be of much value if you are not mentally&spiritually ready to integrate the experiences. However it would have saved me from a lot of unpleasant trips&wrecks and I would have been better able to understand some of the spiritual phenomena going on in the subtle realms instead of just flipping out.
Yoga stabilized much of that which was unstable in my persona. Doing asanas&meditation. I guess that it can be vice versa, too.
Some people seem irritated by the use of yogic vocabulary while relating entheogenic experiences however from the studies I have learned from it seems like the core is very much the same in shamanic cosmology and for example vedanta.
Drew, is there an overview on Electrochemical&Electromagnetic behavior? I am interested :)
Any literature to recommend?
Infinite peace
Focusing on clear light
I'm sure some of you are familiar with Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath. He was in LA like a month ago giving darshan one night and kriya yoga initiation the other night and in a lecture he was giving before the darshan, he mentioned that he had done "lots of shamanism" (presumably in past lives) and advised to focus only on clear light and not to get caught up in the astral planes. He then explained that by doing this he can work with the astral planes (as he does often) by "puncturing through them." I found this to be very clear and solid advice.
As far as pyschedelics go, I started my path doing them and then got into kundalini yoga and meditation a little over a year ago, which I have since used as my primary vehicle to access "higher" states of consciousness. This practice diminished a kind of urgency I previously felt which caused me to do pyschedelics almost excessively. I think in the past year all I've done was smoke hash and dmt a few times and I found those experiences to be very possitive - like lube for meditation.
What is most important is overall focus and intention. It is the way one relates to the planes they are in and not the planes themselves that really define their consciousness. As long as one has a direct relationship with a guru, whether material or immaterial, they should feel good about whatever practice they use to make the connection.
Wild Wisdom trascends any label/boundary
The guru is in the Heart..
"But when that urgent now matures more fully, mentored by the longer pineal rhythms, patiently nourished into its puberty by rare pituitary elixirs and incessant spinal prayers into its transformative dark night of the soul, no lamp for light except that one burning in my heart(San Juan de la Cruz), juices of creation transform into ojas tejas retas auras, illuminating citta, further arousing prana awakening Kundalini sending wave after wave of photovoltaic melanin endorphin bliss currents radiating into the heavenly-winged cerebral lobes, returning the magisterial brain to its original mystical erogenous nature: to feel it all, not via worded figurines but throbbingly engorged and saturated drunk with its own honeyed secretions to become like unto gods imbibing deep the soma-rasa madhu mead amrita ambrosa..." Your perfect lips. A spiritual-erotic memoir, Stuart Sovatsky
I find hilarious (and potentially misleading) the square-minded/linear "distinctions" by Mr. Wilber..( he himself is a sad example of integral macho arrogance; google his name and read about the "sheriff" Wilber from different sources...): One of Ken Wilber's main inspirations, Tibetan Buddhism, is a beautiful, harmonious blend of indigenous shamanism, Tantra, and Buddhism...
For example, the description of " the original, nonchoreographed, ecstatic Dance of Shiva": Is it 'yogic' or 'shamanic'?
http://www.cit-sakti.com/kundalini/sahaja-spontaneous-yoga.htm
http://www.themetaarts.com/2008april/hankwesselman.html
...and there is DMT in outer nature( saturated of tryptamines all around the planet)...and DMT in inner nature (our lungs and other internal organs), so..mmm, what a COINCIDENCE...I don't think so ; )
Please, the house is on fire, no more bizantine discussions...I invite anybody to practice "subtle activism", with all kind of entheogens and cognitive entheogens (ritual, chanting, "shaking", plant allies, etc.)
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Perspectives from a novice evolver
This was a tremendous article that nicely framed some of the issues that I wrestle with along my path of evolution. I am not nearly as far along in my journey as some of the contributors to this string of comments, but I thought it might be helpful to share from my novice evolver point of view.
It seems that there is a basic debate...or maybe it would be better to say a mystery, that keeps revealing itself on this site. Most recently it was discussed in depth here: http://www.realitysandwich.com/pinchbeck_and_dharmanidhi. The two energies as I see it are between those who primarily identify more with some historically established way of being (Tau, Bhuddism, esoteric Christianity) and those who are more individualized in their exploration (entheogens and the arts). Historically, that same opposition appears throughout man's evolution. For ease of reference maybe we could call these two paths the "traditional" and "individualized" paths. On a personal level, I find myself often conflicted between these two paths. On the one hand, the traditionalists supply a tremendous amount of wisdom and perspective on man's evolution of consciousness. Yet, we sometimes see evidence among the traditionalists of what I call "New Edge Fundamentalism" where a particular tradition, practice, or teacher is The One True Way. I read a book recently by a traditionalist where he off-handedly spoke of ayahuasca as a "psychedelic brew" with a lack of understanding or respect for individualists and just a bit of superiority in his own tradition. The individualists on the other hand are leading the way with tremendous energy and insight, yet they also have to guard against failing to respect the wisdom of what has come before...and maybe spending a little too much time thinking about things like whether or not we faked the moon landing.
My own story began with a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing and education, then continued to a materialistic/scientific viewpoint in my mid to late twenties, and finally to the esoteric/metaphysical realm in my early 30's. My understanding has primarily been along the "traditional" path and specifically the teachings of Rudolf Steiner. But I increasingly see the tremendous energy being created by those who are more on the "individualized" path. Steiner frowned on entheogens in general, but emphasized that the path of entrance into the spiritual realms that he taught has not always been the same and would not be the same at later stages in man's evolution. I repeat my disclaimer that I am a novice explorer, in case a "Steiner expert" disagrees with my interpretation of his teaching.
When it comes to ayahuasca specifically, it is impossible for me to deny the step forward in consciousness that has been taken by those who have explored with it. So much so that I am considering exploring it as well. But I would take that step very cautiously and remembering a basic axiom that has been well tested throughout the ages. That each step forward in consciousness exploration must be preceded by many steps in moral and spiritual development. So to sum things up, perhaps for me personally and the Evolver community in general we will continue to find synthesis between the traditional path and the individualized path as we manifest during this exciting time in the evolution of human consciousness. I appreciate the thinking and soul searching that Allowah has provided for us in this article. May the discussion between traditionalists and individualists continue in the realization that love is always the right path.
A Note About 5-MeO-DMT...
3~' Shanti
Thank you all so much for your comments and glad you found it helpful and that it's inspired such thoughtful discussion. I've been really busy the past few days but will return soon with some responses to what's been written thus far. For the time being, I wanted to highlight a footnote concerning 5-MeO-DMT from the revised version of this piece because I think you'll want to look into this if you haven't already:
"At this point I would like to make a special note of 5-MeO-DMT as being potentially the one entheogen that just might give more consistent access to the Causal planes, and even beyond that to Source (God, Void, Brahman, etc.). I would like to make special mention of James Oroc’s new book, "Tryptamine Palace: 5-MeO-DMT and the Sonoran Desert Toad " (Inner Traditions, 2009), in which the author argues that 5-MeO-DMT is really the only true entheogen in that it provides a direct experience of Source (or God). Another new proponent of 5-MeO-DMT, Hal Lucius Nation, the spiritual head of the Temple of Awakening Divinity (T.O.A.D.) and longtime practicioner of Raja Yoga, refers to this particular substance as “Samadhi,” a Sanskrit word which he translates as “Union with God” or “Union with the Divine.” Martin Ball, Ph.D. has also written a book which is largely about and inspired by 5-MeO-DMT, entitled The Entheogenic Evolution: Psychedelics, Consciousness, and Awakening the Human Spirit, and has interviewed both James Oroc and Hal Lucius Nation. Both interviews are available for free download @ http://entheogenic.podomatic.com/ ."
And I'd like to add that Ananda Bosman is one other person doing work with 5-MeO-DMT who you would want to check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4y93hvDBY
/\ Allowah
Thanks to All, Some Comments on the Commentary...
3~' Shanti
Hi All,
Rather than reply to each of your comments individually, I thought it might work better this time if I just weave some scattered thoughts/responses together into one chaotic soup of a comment ; ) So here goes nothin'...
I want to start with Pippalayana's most excellent point:
"A Yoga meditation is an entheogenic experience ... and a Shamanic entrainment with a psycho-active plant substance is a true yoga."
I would add: Yoga will inform your shamanistic/plant medicine practice, and Your shamanistic practice will inform your Yoga – and ultimately you will realize, as Pippalayana says, that they are really one and the same path. The deeper you peel the layers of the onion, going from the exoteric to the esoteric core, the more you will see the unity in diversity. And another great point from Pippalayana: "One cannot even get to see an entheogenic vision unless he is in a state of "yoga."
Metanoid and Mahajusa aver in their comments, and I do, too – it seems that one will get much more out of the entheogenic experience (it will be a true entheogenic experience, as P. says) if s/he is already grounded in some kind of spiritual discipline.
Thank you for all of the information, Drew, I’m going to check into a lot of the sources you mention…As for Ramana Maharishi, I wonder why he himself neve much discussed his years of solitude? Maybe his silence on that is why his followers seem to have missed that. Or am I wrong about that? Very good point there.
Thank you, also, for your mini-thesis there on the Bushmen : ) Can you suggest a good book to read on all of this (or website)? Wade Davis? As for singing, I’ve experienced the guiding and creating the energy every time I do Kirtan in a group – if we just spent another couple of hours doing it, we would certainly have a collective entheogenic experience. As it is, just an hour of chanting takes me into a non-ordinary/entheogenic state. I would say the same for dancing, too.
Agent of Chaos’ point about this not being either/or is something that I personally Didn’t get for the longest time. It could be that at certain stages of our journeys we find one modality more useful than any others (as Yoga practice was for me, at first), but the danger is in not being open to other resources and paths, even ones that may lie outside the “bounds” of one’s own tradition.
Regarding Nick’s comments about having a Guru, that’s a question I have: At one point does one stop relying on the external Guru (living or otherwise, as you say), and start to rely on the inner Guru (in the heart, as Zorro says)? Or is that what a non-living Guru is? I don’t personally have a living Guru right now, but perhaps a Guru that I had in the past is still watching over me as I take these plant journeys? If so, wish they would reveal themselves! Perhaps if the true guru, the Satguru, is really one with God (as we all are), then no real distinction can be made between Satguru, inner guru, God, Higher Self, Source, what have you.
Thanks for your comment, Riley, that’s very encouraging! I actually toned down the revised version of the piece thinking that I hadn’t been evenhanded enough, and maybe was coming from a not completely objective place (as if that’s really possible ; ) So gracias for the reality check. My original comments were more along the lines of Zorro’s actually, but I figure that Ken gets bashed enough these days!
And my point in this essay was just this: “Please, the house is on fire, no more bizantine discussions...I invite anybody to practice "subtle activism", with all kind of entheogens and cognitive entheogens (ritual, chanting, "shaking", plant allies, etc.)” ~ Zorro
Thank you, too, Jesse, for your insightful comments. It seems there has always been the tension between the mystic/shaman/yogi and the community/society/traditional norms and values, even when the individual works within the constraints of the community (as a healer, guide, etc.) I sense that to live in this dimension means to find some semblance of balance between the two, and I also sense that most of us are in agreement here that it would be unwise to completely dispense with “tradition” and just set out on creating an entirely new way for ourselves (as if that would be possible!)
As for the Fundamentalists, having once been there myself, I would say that their challenge is in overcoming the fear of “Other,” of something different than what they’re used to, and to actually experience what they’ve been missing on “the other side.” Essentially, don’t knock it ‘til you try it : ) Let’s make informed decisions based upon real experiential work, not from a place of “Well, the Good Book says…” Admittedly, that’s hard to do with plant sacraments like Ayahuasca, because for some people it’s like saying, “Why don’t you just try this cocaine already and see what it really does for you?”
A simple rule of thumb regarding all of this might be: If you don’t feel attracted to this path and need to be talked into it, you’re probably not ready for it yet. Perhaps, as you say Jesse, it will be some time until you do the necessary preparations before the inner guru in the heart gives you the green light : )
Thanks again to all for your thoughtfulness, blown away as always!…Namaste /\
Mysticism and psychedelics
Very good article by Christopher M. Bache, Ph.D. Professor Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies, Youngstown State University, OH
"It should be clear by now that there are no shortcuts on the spiritual path. If the goal of this path is a permanent transformation of consciousness, no technique can sidestep the arduous purification process necessary for this transformation to occur. Used therapeutically, however, LSD appears to be capable of accelerating this purification process to an unprecedented degree. Far from sidestepping the dark night's anguish, it intensifies and deepens it beyond imaginable limits. If it shortens the time spent in the dark night, it pays for this saving in the extreme severity of psychedelic perinatal experience. Its sometimes brutal character is a direct function of its efficiency. At this point in time, professional discussion should shift from whether "chemical mysticism" is "real mysticism" to assessing the pros and cons of LSD psychotherapy as a strategy of spiritual transformation. It carries some obvious advantages and perhaps some not so obvious disadvantages, and these require careful discussion. Despite LSD's current legal status, this is not an empty exercise, as its therapeutic potential is probably too great to be lost forever simply because of early lay abuse":
http://primal-page.com/night.htm
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Having a living Sat-Guru
In response to Allowah's question -
"At one point does one stop relying on the external Guru (living or otherwise, as you say), and start to rely on the inner Guru (in the heart, as Zorro says)? Or is that what a non-living Guru is? I don’t personally have a living Guru right now, but perhaps a Guru that I had in the past is still watching over me as I take these plant journeys? If so, wish they would reveal themselves! Perhaps if the true guru, the Satguru, is really one with God (as we all are), then no real distinction can be made between Satguru, inner guru, God, Higher Self, Source, what have you. "
Well one thing I think is very important is shaktipat transmission. I can trace back my first major kundalini awakening to a long process of psychedelic use and binge reading on metaphysical topics which culminated in a meditation during the first time I ever did a kundalini yoga morning sadhana. I was also on lsd.
Anyway, I worked with kundalini from that point on, but it wasn't until I first recieved shaktipat from Amma (who was the first Saint I had met at that point) when she was in LA earlier this Summer that I felt I had an absolute and pure foundation for my devotional practices. All I can say is that she completely opened my heart in a way I am not sure could have happened without her.
I recieved numerous blessings from her over the few days she was here and during this time, I experienced a kind of smoothing out in my energy body. I have heard that in a shaktipat transmission, a master creates conduits of linkage from their subtle bodies to the subtle bodies of the devotee, activating new centers in the brain, and this is definetely what I was experiencing.
There was another time in particular when I was about to begin a meditation with an intention that was more to get high then to sit and be in love and graditude when I suddenly started crying uncontrollably for like half an hour and wasn't able to assume any posture but a fetal position and the only thing I could manage to say was "Om Kali." This one experience in particular drastically changed my devotional attitude.
So my point is that while some can argue that it is not essential to have a living master, it is definately the best way to procure a strong and pure devotial attitude. The experiences of the infinite I have had through the darshan of living saints provided a lasting sense of connection, whereas the connection to the infinite I previously felt through psychedelic experiences alone always kind of faded after a few days, weeks, or months.
Of course, in an absolute sense, we are all god and there should be no distinction between outer guru, inner guru, source, etc, but the way I look at it, as I wake up everyday with karma tying me to an illusionary plane that requries dualistic structure to exist, I turn to what I find to be the most tangible and practical path. It is the sole fact that masters are actively operating in human bodies in the physical realm with a completely free-flowing consciousness that makes them so easy for me to have faith in. For me, this dynamic is what activates my "inner guru."
I have heard stories of people connecting with deceased masters through dreams and visions, so that definately proves that there are exceptional and unique cases.
Overall though, I would encourage people to go with a guru, and not to get turned off by an idea of something they've never experienced, like I notice so many psychedelic users do. The essense of the guru-disciple relationship is quite irrational to most, so it is definately something people should try out before they dismiss it. What people really need to get over is the whole Leary-McKenna type attidude of defiance to any higher spiritual authority by sheer principle. I used to feel that way (I'm a recovering punk rock anti-everythingist for God's sake!), but I eventually realized how much I actually needed it.
Aum Namah Shivaya!
"The lamp and guide of the burning heart" St. John of the Cross
Mmmmm...I'm not sure, Nick.
If you have read "After the ecstasy,the laundry" by Jack Kornfield, you know about the painful description of different kinds of abuse by MOST of the gurus, swamis,etc. in this country. A really painful disclosure.
In the other hand, I agree with you that the "resonance" of a darshan, deeksha, shaktipat, call it what you want, it's very effective ( I feel very grateful for that)...
Perhaps a healthy way it would be to seek teachers who work in a "anam cara"(spiritual friend) way...or "transmissions" that don't involve the dynamics of guru/disciple ... Using some discernment, anybody can find them.
One of the beauties of shamanic practice is that is a path of direct relationship with Gaia/Cosmos...the time of gurus is ending...
Jai Ma !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA2_gn58Lnc
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Whatever works
In response to Zorro,
I would advise people to get a shaktipat transmission from a guru and let their heart guide them from there. Seeing masters as friends is definately one way of approaching it. Devotion is a creative process, so as long as there is sincerity at the core of it, whatever works is great.
I have to disagree however that "the time of gurus is ending." I don't really want to argue about it but I just don't think it is. I feel what you're saying though and I agree that it is time for each individual to mature and take full responsibility for their life and way of relating, but that doesn't neccesarily eliminate the relevance of the guru role. In fact, in my case, it makes it all the more useful.
All effective spiritual practice directly relates the practitioner to the infinite. A guru can serve as a vessel, both inspirationally and energetically, to guide one's consciousness to that point. Psychedelics serve a similar function, as their neural-chemical effects rid the veils that can tie perception soley to the densest physical and emotional realms. It appears to me however, that while psychedelics can induce theraputic experiences and can help heal past traumas, their use alone is no substitute for yogic disciplines.
In order to percieve reality with depth and clarity, one must have a clear mind, which requires meditative practices. This directly burns away karma by refining one's capacity to relate to situations neutrally.
When I first started my sadhana I avoided psychedelics, but that was mostly because I needed to take a break in order to use them in a healthy way. Now I have no problem with using them, but rarely see the point in it. I usually prefer doing my practices sober just because it's how I wake up every morning and I like working with the state that I default back to when all is said and done.
But anyway, that's just me. All the scholarly debates that tend to measure paths against eachother are a drragggg. Guru's, psychedelics, yoga.. All these methods and blessings are beautiful, and they all serve their purpose perfectly. I really hope that those tendencies some have to critique things from the outside looking in can be transmuted into respect and compassion. We need that so greatly in this time we are living in, what with communication spreading so rapidly, allowing such a diverse abundance of tools and resources (Especially in the West).
By the way, can you name a few Saints that are indicted in that book? You got me kind of curious.
Domination and submission
Nick, I don't want to assume the rol of the whistle-blower : If you are really interested, check the book. You have to decide by yourself whta is the truth..
Years ago, I had many idealized beliefs on the matter...Life taught me otherwise, sometimes the hard way. Again and again,with no intention from my part, I have found people telling me personal stories of guru abuse..
"In principle, God and the Guru are the same. But we may say that the Guru is higher than God. If the Guru wants, he can remove the effect of God's displeasure. But even God cannot remove the sin that comes from dishonoring the Guru." -Amma
Mmmm.... what I feel, reading these words, is fear, not love.
I have to tell you: It has been a painful, disturbing, sometimes agonic way...towards real spiritual freedom.
What I meant is that the hierarchy model belongs to the feudal patriarchal past. Primordial/Future Spirituality, borrowing the term from David Spangler, is holarchy...
http://www.sevenpillarshouse.org/article/a_vision_of_holarchy1/
Have you realised that the gurus have so much spiritual power precisely because they take it from all the people worshiping them...?
More on gurus:
http://www.lorinroche.com/page222/page19/page19.html
http://www.lorinroche.com/page222/page249/page249.html
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Gaian Darshan
From the zen teacher and therapist Donna Thompson:
The very next chance you have, take the darshan of a tree. Find a tree, in a somewhat quiet place, and sit beneath it. Ask for its blessing. Feel its energy, its silence. Imagine that the treeis pouring light down on you and through you. It may be a translucent, spring-like, green light, or autumn gold, or winter white. In every season, trees radiate energy, healing and balance. Take the darshan of clouds and sky, flowers, rocks, streams, the ocean, a hill, the mountains. As you experience every single aspect of nature as sacred, you are receiving darshan everywhere.
Gaia
Follow the breath for a few moments. Imagine that you are seeing the earth from a great distance. See it as from space. How beautiful it is! Green, blue, white, shifting light and shadow, ever-changing colors. On this fragile, translucent sphere, so many stories are being played out. Feel the self that lives on this earth-the self that plays out your individual story-and become aware of that awareness that sees the whole, from the perspective of space. You are the great awareness that embraces the earth and the stars and space, and you are also you- body and spirit, blood and feeling. Recognize this distant earth, floating in space, as your teacher. This sphere of floating green, blue, and white light is a great teacher, an unparelled master. Honor this teacher; bow to Her. Know that you are blessed to live with her, care for her, and learn from her. Imagine now that you come closer and closer to the earth. Land. Feel your feet on the ground,here, now. Look at your hands and love them. Stretch your body. Feel yourself at home on earth.
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Response to Zorro
I was just wondering if you could drop a few names.
Anyway, I think that any system of heirarchy people see in the guru-disiple relationship is a transient shell that is merely meant to contain and preserve throughout time, the essense of the relationship, which is the infinite consciousness of the guru flowing ceaselessly into the inhibited consciousness of the devotee and transforming their awareness to the degree that they allow. True gurus always respect the mental resistance of whoever is recieving their energy. The whole point is to go beyond the dualistic relationship and merge in oneness, and this process is fundamentally built on a foundation of grace and mutual respect.
Anytime there seems to be a dynamic of "dominance and submissiveness" in a master-disciple relationship, it is really just a role that is being played in order for the disciple to integrate what you could call "Saturnine" or "Kali" energy. To quote one of my teachers "In true freedom, there is no choice." The point is to surrender to your highest potential destiny by accepting the fact that your life is not "your" life, but rather, god is living itself through you.
I would also like to clarify that I agree that god can be seen in any thing, situation, or event. I liked the thing about getting darshan from a tree. Again, I just appreciate the tangibility of having breathing, embodied masters.
True gurus are not energy vampires. All they do is give. If they took energy, where would it go? They hold on to nothing. Their only will is to spread awareness.
So I'll say again that it is my advice to anyone interested to get a shaktipat transmission and follow their heart from there. They can surrender their destiny to the god consciousness they experience through the master (if that happens), or they can go home and write a blog about how demeaning the concept of a guru is. Either way, whatever they do will be perfect because we live in a perfect universe.
The bottom line that we can all agree on is that the key lies in the individual, because even with the grace of a guru, you need a sadhana to be able to effectively work with that energy. All a guru can do is magnify one's will power. If someone gets shaktipat but doesn't excercise any will to expand their consciousness, it is like the guru is outside a house waiting to be let in, but the second they decide to and make the effort, in comes the guru, and the whole process is then blessed in the most beautiful way possible.
I am my relationships in Time and Space
As you like it.
My business/agenda is radical, uncompromising, ferocious, joyous, love for the truth...nothing more, nothing less... : )
If one want to justify the guru thing, one can find countless "reasons"....
"as far as your longing can reach"
Parmenides
I agree that it's the burning intensity of your longing that propels you towards transmutation ( alchemichal fire)...and the guidance comes from inside/outside (non-duality), from the Mother...
One last thing.
I feel that another layer of the guru thing is that we, westerners, are the only people in the planet that has lost the connection to the Ancestors. We are hungry to feel the belonging to the web of life..and the web of our ancestors, stretching back in time..
As eloquently explains Martin Prechtel, more we remember and retrieve our ancestral connections, more cultural/spiritual renaissance will happen:
http://www.futureprimitive.org/interviews/97
The shamanic practitioner Frank MacEowen shares a beautifully simple (and powerful) exercise, "downloaded" from his Irish ancestors, for awakening and retrieving the relationships with our lineages, in his book "The spiral of memory and belonging" (Exercise "Stepping back into the body of the Ancestors", on page 164)
Deep Peace
Jai Ma!
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Ecstasy: from all, for all
One last comment, Nick:
I said that the gurus participate in a symbiotic relationship with the students: I think it's just fair to know what kind of game is offered. If you like it...go ahead! Many people have been blessed...and many people have been deeply damaged: as like entheogens...study the thing, and then, with good information..check with your soul and decide...
Also, if you study the most ancient spirituality on earth - Kalahari Bushmen - you find the whole tribe moved by the n/om (kundalini): It's a colective experience - probably like the origins of Indian spirituality (the Pashupati ecstatic dance). So the guru thing is just a (late) historic cultural face of Ecstatic Spirituality.
Also, when I said, perhaps too enphatically, that "the time of the gurus is ending", I meant that it looks by many signs ( and I'm pondering this matter for a few years...more and more scholar/practitioners saying something similar..more ans more spontaneous awakenings), that a new cycle of spirituality is emerging, maybe faster than we can believe. A spirituality of direct revelation - no more (physical) intermediaries...
Time will tell
Deep Peace
Jai Ma!
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Fascinating Discussion, Very Well-Argued On Both Sides...
3~' Shanti
I actually wanted to write more than what I'm about to, but couldn't hold out any longer...Thanks to you both, Nick & Zorro, for a truly brilliant discussion of this whole issue of "To Guru or Not to Guru." It's certainly one I can relate to personally as I did receive Shaktipat (from Anandi Ma) and followed her and several other women teachers/saints/gurus from India for about six years, from 1996-2002 (including Ammachi and Sri Karunamayi -- which one are you referring to, Nick, or is it another Amma?).I've been writing about all of this in the "Yoga & Psychedelics" book I'm working on (it's going well, thanks for asking Drew), and maybe one of these days Reality Sandwich will post the chapter which deals specifically with Gurus and what they've said on the subject of psychedelics (entheogens, plant medicine/sacraments, what have you). I sense that I will personally have a better answer to all of this once I've explored what the medicines do a bit more, and then go back to my teachers and see how it feels.
I was personally blown away by some of the beings I was with, but I did begin to have doubts, questions, fears, etc. Perhaps these were all just obstacles the ego throws in the way to block the journey to greater awareness. I can see that, certainly, but I also see how it requires quite a leap of faith to follow a guru who might just ultimately ask you to, figuratively or literally, jump off a cliff (literally because of that story in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi about how Babaji asked a disciple to jump off a cliff, the disciple immediately did, and then Babaji resurrected him). At what point does it all become too much "blind faith"? There was always quite a bit of "cognitive dissonance" for me with my teachers, where I had to justify what I was doing and what they were saying with the rational, linear Western perspective with which I/we have been enculturated. Most of it felt Divine, actually, but there was always that part of me that was pulling away, for various reasons which would take too long to go into right now.
Perhaps, as Nick suggests, it was a completely perfect response as the Universe had other plans for me than to do that for the rest of this incarnation. It was time to get out, so It just threw in some reasons to bag that whole trip so that I could get on with the next part of my soul's journey, which includes now sharing with you a discussion which seems rather crucial at this point, and one which I hope we'll continue. Or have you guys had it?
Muchas Gracias & Namaste / \
Great Stuff, thanks, Drew : )
3~' ShantiThanks so much for the stuff on Ramana Maharishi and this latest post. I just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about the interview we did together, Drew, and would love to continue it. Are you up for that? I'm also on podomatic now and want to start podcasting, mainly doing interviews with people like yourself. The offer is extended to Nick and Zorro, too. Just shoot me an email: allowah13@gmail.com . Drew I tried to write to you recently and the email didn't go through -- did you change emails?
I also wanted to mention to check out www.sachavacay.org . Don Diego is a Peruvian shaman who I will be doing an ayahuasca ceremony with soon. I hope to do an interview with him and maybe have it posted on here. Don Diego spends several months of the year in India working with a teacher there. Am hoping to get his input on all of this when we talk.
3~' Grok On \m/
Gee You Are You ... G-U-R-U
In Sanskrit there is a term ... "acintya-bhedha-abhedha-tattva" ... {inconceivable, simultaneous, oneness and difference}
The best disciples make the best gurus ... the best servants make the best leaders.
The trick to the whole Guru/Disciple thing ... is that it doesn't exist outside of the actual commitment between two souls.
There is no abstract principle that states such "must" be so ... it is either there or not there.
Big gurus ... small gurus ... great disciples ... rascal disciples ...
There will always likely be individuals who know enough for others to take shelter of their wisdom.
We all do this with each other, in different ways, to different degrees.
How does one go from goo-goo, ga-ga {infant jargon} to A-B-C-D-E-F-G ... there is "sucession" to all our learning.
Everything is passed down ... shared among the collective.
Mythology literaly means "by mouth" ... all of our understanding is mythological ... coming to us through sucession. {Parampara - Sanskrit}
Even something like "Hey dude" is passed by mouth/myth ...{from the ole cowboy "Dude Ranches"
How many grade school kids would even learn the "normal" way to tie a shoelace on their own {not that they should have to}
Guru is who ever, or what ever enlightens one along any aspect of the infinite paths of life. {literally means remover of darkness/nescience}
But like anything else, can, of course, become "pathological" ... if either the Guru is not so wise ... and/or the disciple is rather foolish.
The guru within .. the guru without ... the momentary guru ... the lifelong guru ...
We are all at least a fraction of both of these "posts" to each other, at different times ... and in different circumstances, to different degrees..
Very, very formal and dogmatic versions ... very casual and loose versions {shades of gray in between}
Sometimes ones mind is "asking" .. other times it is "telling" ... as are all others ...
We all need help to learn our A-B-C's ... but only to the point where we can speak ourselves.
A Guru is no more unatural than the mothers tit.
The qualified mother actually enjoys the child growing to where they are on their own ..
The qualified Guru only being there to serve actual "lack" ... not to perpetuate "followership"
How is the soul of a Mushroom less wise than the soul of a Human ... not in "Eden" ... thats for sure.
To never have to need a Guru ... to only need the Guru ... what really separates these two "poles of purpose" ... and/or degrees of mixture between the two ... outside of given individuals in relation with each other.
How - what - when - where - why ... are we asking ... or are we telling
What you are aiming at.
AUM Pippalayana & Naga Raja/+ Martin Ball's Comments on This...
3~' ShantiHey,In my last post I extended the invitation to possibly do a podcast on these issues, and I didn't mean to not include anyone on this thread/sutra who might be interested, including you Pippalayana and Naga Raja and all those who have made comments. Please email me at allowah13@gmail.com if you might be interested in that.
From what you wrote, Pippalayana, I wasn't a very good disciple (or maybe I was ; ), so I wouldn't trust me as a Guru either, so don't take anything I say too seriously : ) I love the way you express these things, btw.Naga Raja, thank you, my earlier essay for Reality Sandwich was precisely on the issue of what the Yoga Sutras have to say about psychoactive plants (aushadha -- herbs), and you can find that piece here:http://www.realitysandwich.com/psychedelics_light_yoga_sutras
I did a long interview with Martin Ball and asked him specifically about the issue of "Gurus"; here's the relevant excerpt, and you can find the rest here:
http://www.evolver.net/user/allowah/blog/beyond_entheogens_interview_mar...
AL: At the outset of "Mushroom Wisdom," you touched on the idea that entheogens are a "great equalizer," leveling the spiritual playing field, so to speak. I'm wondering if you would expand on that a bit, and maybe connect it to the debate about whether/why the "Guru" is dead for us these days, and whether the entheogens can/must? perform the same essential role, as well as the issue of whether we need to use these things under the guidance of a experienced shaman/guru?
MB: Entheogens are a great spiritual equalizer because they make profoundly spiritual states of consciousness available to anyone willing to learn to work with them. While this is true of other spiritual modalities such as meditation, yoga, prayer, fasting, drumming, etc., entheogens stand out for their effectiveness in engendering such states when used in a responsible manner. For most people, I speculate that it would be more likely for them to have deep and profoundly transformative experiences with entheogens than through virtually any other means. However, I also feel that entheogen use is most productive and beneficial when paired with other forms of spiritual practice, especially meditation and energy work (such as through martial arts, yoga, dance, body work, etc.).
Entheogenic spirituality is not easy, so it is important to understand that to advocate entheogens as a tool for spiritual development is not to advocate what could be described as an "easy" path. There is some judgment that because entheogens make spiritual experiences so readily accessible, it is taking an "easy" path, as opposed to years of dedicated meditation and prayer to reach such profound levels of consciousness. While entheogens do make deeply profound states more accessible, there is nothing "easy" about working with these profound plant teachers. Entheogens can be more demanding than any spiritual teacher or system of practice and they require deep dedication to working with them for personal spiritual development and growth.
But with that said, it is also true that they do make profound experiences more accessible to more people than any other means of cultivating spiritual consciousness.It is highly significant that the entheogens themselves are the teachers in the context of entheogenic spirituality. In traditional societies, shamans create the context for new initiates to encounter the sacred medicines, but shamans tend not to be "gurus." The role of the guru is to personally guide the spiritual seeker along the path to enlightenment and is the ultimate judge of the seeker's progress.
With entheogenic spirituality, the shamans are the technicians of the sacred and hold the knowledge of how to use the medicines as tools. Their role is to teach the initiate how to use the medicines and access their wisdom, but the source of the real teachings is the medicines themselves.Entheogenic spirituality therefore places a great deal of responsibility on the individual. It is in largely private, subjective experience (even if done in a group setting) that the individual encounters the power of the medicines. The lessons that unfold are unique for each person and no two sessions with a visionary medicine are the same, even if there are similar characteristics. When done with the proper intent, preparation, and dedication, lessons build on each other over time and the initiate can progress through infinite levels of spiritual awakening and evolution.An encounter with a visionary medicine is always an encounter with the self - with all levels of the self from the ego to the "higher self" to one's divine nature as an embodiment of Source. Because of this, the medicines always "know" exactly who you are, where you are at, and what lessons you need to continue on your path of spiritual development. The truth is right there, but the choice is always yours. How will you respond to the lesson? What will you choose?One needs neither a shaman nor a guru to have such lessons through entheogen use. Yet having a trusted guide or teacher can be very important for helping the spiritual seeker through difficult passages in the entheogenic journey.
Our modern Western society is lacking in models who are experienced with entheogenic spirituality; shamans, gurus, or otherwise. Most "mainstream" spiritual practitioners have little to no knowledge of entheogens or their potential, and even the most "enlightened" spiritual leaders can be highly judgmental of entheogenic spirituality.Therefore, finding a good guide can be exceedingly difficult. Much Western use of entheogens is overtly "recreational" and while spontaneous spiritual experiences can develop in such contexts, their regularity and depth can be greatly increased and enhanced by guided ceremonial use. It is for this reason that many Westerners are drawn to work with indigenous healers and shamans or participate in religious use of entheogens such as through the Native American Church, the Uniao do Vegetal, or Santo Daime.As entheogenic spirituality becomes more popular, the need for experienced teachers and models will grow. Ideally, centers could be opened where those who choose could be initiated into the Mysteries. Initiates could be taught how to dedicate themselves to the experience, how to center their thoughts and focus their minds and how to let go of fear and judgment as they turn within and let the experience unfold. With the right contexts, deeply transformative spiritual experiences could be made available to more and more people, giving them a direct experience of divine realities and transcendent states of consciousness. Even if only encountered once, an entheogenic experience can be life-transforming. And for those who are called to do the rigorous work of evolving themselves at the guidance of the plant teachers, they could be given a context in which to do their practice in a safe and supportive way.
The New Mysteries
More: I just found it released...
"As part of his retelling of the story of the gifting of the first sacred prayer pipe to the people by White Buffalo Calf Woman, Black Elk observed that with the ending of this cycle of ages—the one that is winding down right now and may come to closure in 2012—that the primordial spirituality would re-emerge and re-establish itself… and it would be on this foundation that the next cycle would begin. (...)
The primordial spirituality is the shaman’s path of direct revelation, and no matter what our faiths or beliefs or ethnic origins may be today, we are all descended from indigenous ancestors if we go back far enough… and they all had great shamans.
By utilizing the shaman's time-tested methodology, we can awaken from the consensus slumber of culture at large, and it then becomes possible to personally experience reunion with unlimited power as well as connection with a mysterious, god-like mind...(...)
We then know with certainty that no holy words or books, no secret ceremonies or rituals, no spiritual leaders or gurus or faiths can do this for us. Once the higher evolutionary functions are triggered within us, some mysterious predetermined schedule is set into motion, activating a program that cannot be given to us by any outside agency.
This is because most of us already have it."
http://www.themetaarts.com/pages/hankwesselman.html
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
awesome
nice Drew,
I have been pondering the moon... I've been wondering why it is not allowed to do astanga in my class, they say that during the new&full moon it is possible to get injured
I've noticed the effect of energy during these periods, sometimes my body feels overloaded and unbalanced, even slightest changes in nutritional values and use of some medicines or entheogens during these periods may be noticed in the subtle body - as slight prickling. So for now I will only do some physical and mental exercises during moon periods. I guess there is some shit in my body which needs to be purified.
my friend takes ayahuasca during new moon and says it enhances the effect, any idea on this?
btw its full moon tomorrow so I guess I'll be howling at the moon :)
Circle Jerk
Are we seeking liberation, or just an attempt to peel back the egoic self, just to look at the same face? If shiddhis is served, are we getting stuck or drunk at the fountain of the "Immortal Elixir"? Is purpose served in shiddhis, if it's a participatory feasting of electrochemical banquets in the park or elsewhere - hey, a dinner & a show! If we are God(s), what are we doing with this Divineness, entertaining ourselves? Seems to me that this knowledge should lead to an evolving collectiveness, and yet the embodiment of "chit' can be convoluted to "shit". Some how that thread is lost here, the one we extend outside ourselves. Allowah points us in that direction when he describes his ayahuasca experience and his reentry to the "ahamkara, or narrow self-consciousness --"The Box", though considerably expanded." "The Box" still is "The Box", the self though slightly newly enlarged still remains the self. How to BE outside "The Box" is not a matter of thinking outside of it, but DOING for "others" outside of it...are we gods? What purpose does a guru/shaman/sage serve, Pippalayana nicely writes-"the guru within...the guru without ...the momentary guru...the lifelong guru", also adding that a guru is no more unnatural than the mother's tit". Seems to me if you need a drink suck, if you see another who thirst...provide the drink, if you have to give - do, all the same river of milk...leading to the same dissolvement of self... to Brahman, ONE consciousness.
from: Shambhala - The Spiritual Teaching of Ramana Maharshi, pg. 69 & 70 -
D. Does Bhagavan use occult powers to make others realize the Self, or is the mere fact of Bhagavan's Realization enough for that?
M. The spiritual force of Self-realization is far more powerful than the use of all the occult powers. Inasmuch as there is not ego in the Sage, there are no "others" for him. What is the highest benefit that can be conferred on you? It is happiness, and happiness is born of peace. Peace can reign only where there is no disturbance, and disturbance is due to thoughts that arise in the mind. When the mind itself is absent, there will be perfect peace. Unless a person has annihilated the mind, he cannot gain peace and be happy. And unless he himself is unhappy, he cannnot bestow happiness on "others" for the Sage who has no mind, the mere fact of Self-realization is itself enough to make the "others" happy.
~ Seek the Source in any source, then be the source.
3~' Shanti
3~' Shanti
Emergence of shamanic consciousness
Another key ball for cognitive juggling in the Great Remembering... ; )
" (...) a compensatory evolutionary shift wherein the western psyche is in the process of being reconnected to nature from which it began its psychic split over 3.000 years ago. In essence, the western ego is being pushed into that reconnection with nature by an evolutionary process in the name of species preservation - if not the preservation of all of life as we know it. This reconnection is not a regression.
(...) One by-product of this evolutionary process appears to be the emergence of a new kind of consciousness, which I have called the Borderland. Some of the characteristics of what i have defined as the borderland personality have been evident in individuals past and present. However, historically, its prevalence has been far from the mainstream consciousnes of western culture. To review, I will remind the reader of the particular characteristics of this emergent Borderland consciousness are:
* A western ego at a high level of psychological development with an elastic ego boundary capable of being in connection with nature without falling into a state of participation mystique with nature.
* An ego capable of containing its own fragmentation complex.
* A resultant greater capacity for maintaining a simultaneous connection and dialogue with, and integration of, the rational and transrational dimensions of life.
* An evolutionary process that holds the prospect of a new kind of collective consciousness that will be familiar not only to the few, but that will be common to the many. Indeed, it may become the predominant form of consciousness emergent in the 21st century".
Living in the Borderland
Jerome Bernstein, Jungian analyst.
http://www.borderlanders.com/in-depth.html
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
As Terance Mckenna so often
Burn Out or Rust
I think it is false to claim that any natural, holistic plant substance will burn one out ... as a direct physical principle.
An Entheogenic experience actually tunes the body into higher levels of cogent activity, experienced all the way down to the cellular level ... {along with of course tuning the mind, feelings}
Of course this understanding fragments, to different degrees, immediately from the point of chemical synthesis onwards.
Even something as simplistic as "lighting up a joint" ... causing combustion ... adds 200 chemical reactions that are not directly related to the marijuana plants substance itself ...
No people who only take cannabis orally seem to have the stereo-typical pot burn out teenage/immature mentality so often exploited in media.
So when one synthesizes DMT or LSD ... there is virtually no telling how off from true cosmic synergy we have gone.
When seriously looking at the possibility of greater awareness acceptability and knowledge of these substances/experiences into present culture, then we should be very clear not to mix the results of our own confusion, and it's effects on our inner and/or outer environment in relation to the actual inherent nature of any indigenous "Garden of Eden" substance ...
Just ones natural ability to efficiently entrain with the potential until the point of symbiotic relationship ... and or cosmic exchange develops
When we hear of the Soma stories .. holistic plant substances traditionally prepared with great care in the Temples etc ... well one can only imagine that our approach to any experience determines our reaction to the experience itself.
There are many things that can freak us out while tripping that have nothing to due with the "cosmic fuel" itself.
But as far as indigenous plant substances in their holistic state ... there is really zero fear for anything but a better physical/mental/emotional premise to build on during and after a true entheogenic experience.
Some burn out symptoms are sometimes associated with having to deal with cosmic consciousness in a humanistic environment that has no scope.for cogent support
The difference between a deeply intuitive shaman and a modern neurotic burn out may only be due to diet and other environmental toxins... structures etc
So many people strongly believe that such psycho-active experiences should "always" be in "controlled settings"
But really anyone under the stars, in the Forrest, or on the Mountain
{any natural setting} should be fine ... in a place where all control can be freely shed without fear or confusion.
No man made setting will really do when true "cosmic entrainment" culminates at the peak of the experience.
I remember, even as a teenager having greater physical abilities at every level of my early experiences, but then again, I stayed away from all chemical versions of conscious expansion, and took to "natural" vegetarian diet, and natural living at a young age.
Nothing in nature has an inherently bad disposition for us ... until modern man breaks out his chemistry set.
Do we want to perpetually control the very telling ourselves what our experiences are ...
Or do we want to hear "beyond ourselves" ... just what is what ..{there are no Cosmic riddles answered outside of organic entrainment ... just furthered questioning}
One's inherent indigenous constitution, "entrained" with that of the plant/spirit
The further we go from the root of the plants organic and indigenous connection to the earth, the further away from cosmic entrainment with that substance we have gone.
On the other hand it might be somewhat fair to point out that chemical synthesis sometimes produces sufficient parallels to organic reality to evoke a parallel response. {always to degree of extraction}
Like even a purely fictional book or movie can often make one "feel" as if the story were real. ..
... yet the deeper, lasting entrainment of a known true experience actually stays with us, where as the fictional ones but create the desire for more ... just like artificial food/flavor as compared to real food/flavor.
The more fake it actually is, the less we actually entrain with that experience ... knowingly, or unknowingly .. "we will never find more coherent truth outside of Eden"
All of our humanistic tendencies to play with nature with our science kits has only taken us to where all future science leans towards artificial control over our environment ... inner and outer both. at some level or other
All at the loss of organic entrainment ... holistic intuition.
However the manipulation of parts always leads to break down of the whole at some point.
In Quantum thought there is the principle of "bifurcation" .. a point of apparent breakdown, due to overwhelm ...
Allowing the system to either bifurcate upwards to a higher level of order ... or bifurcates down to a lower one.
To have a "breakdown of mind" { pre-peak confusion as one transitions to higher awareness} or physical detox, {nausea/puking, is not bad in and of itself. ... could be the very penance required to bifurcate upwards .. after which one feels even better that normal ....
Even on a physical level, like in other discussions here on RS ... about "pre-trip" nausea and other "apparently disturbing physical symptoms {alkaloids etc} actually support our whole mind body complex to approach a cosmic bifurcation ... up to the point of a "dark night of the soul" ... almost penitential {penance} from a certain perspective ... getting ready to meet thy maker so to speak}
Why were temples the places of preparation and initiation in many cultures.
There are virtually no "non-man-made" frequencies or substances in our natural cosmos that cause chronic entropy in the normal course of organic entrainment. of which ingestion is surely one.
De-generative disease is a human invention. Always caused by disrupting the more natural synergistic exchanges of natural cosmic forces.
Sometimes it can seem scary as we tune out of our modernistic mind and tune into higher cosmic synergies ... and if one is "already unstable" .. then there can be self conflicted mental or emotion reactions ... and any related physical symptomatology
... but normally the Entheogenic experience takes one far enough {unless self-created resistance} beyond the possibility of created interference ... possibly all the way to the very "zero-point-field-state" of Spirit itself.... that we naturally bifurcate to higher possibilities all across the board.
No real points of contention ... just different insights into the overall perspective
Light filled Herbs
.
Some Notes on Recent Posts...
3~' Shanti
Some Notes on Recent Posts…
Thanks for bringing that up, Orissacube, and I would agree with you that it seems that having a strong, foundational discipline like Yoga works as an excellent anchor and reference point for one's psychonautical voyages.
Also on the point of "light-filled herbs," Naga Raja asked: “Doesn't Patanjali recognize light filled herbs as one path, along with attention to breath and attention to posture? I looked this up after McKenna quoted it. Although Mckenna may have never had an intense practice, he did dabble in yoga for a while. “
I would use some caution in quoting Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras as a support for using Psychedelics, for various reasons: 1) The verse in the Yoga Sutras that mentions “aushadha” (or “oshadhi”) definitely requires some unpacking – it’s not clear what Patanjali’s intention is including this as one of five ways of obtaining siddhis – the other four being birth, mantra, tapas (austerity), and samadhi -- most commentators point out that clearly Patanjali puts most emphasis on “tapas” and “samadhi”; 2) The question also is: Path to what? According to the sutras, psychoactive herbs might give one siddhis ,or psychic powers, but will they ultimately lead to “Moksha” (or: Enlightenement, Kaivalya, Unity Consciousness, Aloneness, Yoga, etc.), or are they ultimately just another obstacle to the highest “Yoga”? It could be that the siddhis are “milestones” along the path to Yoga, though, that they are are natural outgrowths of one’s yogic practice, and that they can be useful tools if they are not abused; 3) I plan to look at Mckenna’s whole approach to Yoga and India in an essay for the book I’m working on; for right now, I would hesitate to hold him as the highest authority on India and yoga, because it seems that he had a little bit of a bias against it, and he also wasn’t as familiar with the yoga tradition as well as he knew shamanism, ethnobotany, etc.
I’ve already mentioned this in an earlier comment, but anyone who is interested in reading more on this subject can check out my essay on psychedelics and the yoga sutras that RS published several months back: http://www.realitysandwich.com/psychedelics_light_yoga_sutras
Also on this subject, thanks to Eduardo for bringing our attention to “Dioscorea,” I had never heard of it before. It could very well be an entheogenic plant, though not strictly psychedelic. It seems likely that “aushadha” doesn’t only include psychoactive plants anyway.
For more on “Dioscorea”: http://www.truebotanica.com/lightroot_dioscorea_intro.html
& thank you once again Pippalayana for your insightful comments…Yes, there are no doubt many factors that play into all of this. On a personal note, I started exploring these things as I approached the age of 40, with years of other practices and disciplines behind me, particularly yoga sadhana. Truth be told, I simply would not have been ready for these things in my previous incarnations this lifetime, and I feel very grateful for being able to make the conscious decision to ingest in a safe, supportive environment. God knows what would have happened to me if I had drunk the spiked punch ; )
But that’s me. I wasn’t ready for it before now, and maybe I also didn’t really need it until now, because I have experienced more organic entheogenic states, as I’m sure we all did, particularly in our younger days. (Maybe “need” is not the right word, maybe it’s more that I didn’t feel as much of an pressing urge to *remember* as I do now.) I also sense that the teaching from the Jewish tradition that one should not delve deeply into Kabbalah prior to the age of 40 is probably sage wisdom. That said, for some that will not apply, and for others, like myself, it does seem to apply. I could be wrong, but it seems that a number of the voices at the forefront of the current entheogenic movement also “heard the call” in their mid-thirties or so.
I also sense some consensus here that the Hippie proverb/Neil Young lyric "It's better to burn out, than it is to rust,"is kind of a false dichotomy -- maybe we can balance the "Quality" with the "Quantity," and perhaps we should intend to live 120+ years in the body, taking psychedelics or not, growing more whole and wiser all along (and not "selling out" : ) That's really where a discipline like Yoga comes into the picture, and as Nick suggested, having Yoga in your life means not having to overdo the herbs (light-filled, of course : ).
That’s all for now, but I’ll have some more to say later. I want to mention to everyone that a small group of us here watched the new Bouncing Bear Botanical film “Manifesting the Mind” the other night (go to www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com to take a look at the trailer) and it’s worth watching, though I guess a bit pricey ($25 with tax). Definitely worth it, though you might want to wait until someone uploads it to Youtube (& it won’t be me ; )
Grok o\m/
to be filled in later
I just recently had an experience of being in a Salt Cave for two hours with whom, some would call a "Guru", though he would deny this. There was a brief darshan exchange, but mainly an indulgence to my inquiry of a lot of what this prolegomena has provoked inside myself, my "Box".
After the encounter, I drove home still with my mind asking more questions then the answers received. Later in that afternoon, I noticed an increasing uneasiness within my body, and it felt, like I was in the processes of a pre-trip nausea, which has been sometime for me, but something you don't forget. This was happening without any ingestion of any drug, and I knew this sensation, pre-euphoria spiraling, the lost of sensical control, until there is blurring of the lines, until something has to give. And it did, and it did, and it did...that bifurcation. I laid in bed, and I started to feel the separation of body, pulled just far enough away to see the body, drenched in sweat, and inasmuch I was pulled back into the body and dropped hard into a manic sleep.
The next day, I was lighter some how (and not just because I emptied the stomach and what seemed like the entire contents of the kitchen too!), but in "vritti", mental concept. That same day, I had met with some people who weekly meditate with a guided facilitator, and though my meditations are rich...this went beyond.
Immediate full cosmic immersion, sound became a color - unknown to the spectrum I've ever seen, humanity became the color of this sound and thus the trip began. What followed was "sattvic", and it became transformational, because it broke barriers of the "jagat", the world as I perceive it.
Did sitting two hours on the Salt Caves floors bring this on, was it Guru-krpa, or perhaps my desire of self inquiry that had drawen and worked through these agents of all of the above. I sensed that it was and the purging of self - surrendering of the questions that had proceeded the day, or perhaps the surrender must be unquestioning, for the allowance to happen. I have not the answers or the questions for now...the rest will be filled in later or not.
~Seek the Source, in any source, then Be the source.
'
Comment
The term "guru" is sometimes interpreted to mean: 'gu'= darkness; and 'ru'= light.
We are given to understand that some teacher appears to rid us of darkness.
It is all the rage of modern interpretors of 'yoga' or lore of the Siddha and the Upanishads that this supports the idea of 'transmission' and 'contact' with the ultimate source.
I wouldn't pretend to pronounce any such inclination is irrational or that it has no profundity for those who take recourse to this interpretation.
Other interpretations are available, however.
This idea of 'seer' or 'shaman' or 'guru' can be seen as a rather modern subversion of ancient verse or odes and poetry regarding something else.
A political element might be understood from the modern concept of 'diksha'.
When 'power' of numbers or resource-related issues came to the fore with growing populations and issues of limited resources imposed upon some 'genius' that genetic and cultural traditions might weaken grasp of that power, it was logical to transfer respect from parents to some external authority . . . as if superior to that.
I see a very subtle conversion of a record of simple and collective observations of consciousness . . . biophysics in other words . . . that could be shared with no regard to any issue of 'resources' that enabled an early version of humanity to learn how to live without resorting to killing off other living beings or individualities.
And this became a culture of prana worshippers.
It wasn't, originally, at all personified or relegated to some one particular individual.
Anyone who studies the oldest Upanishads, despite their likely later subversions, can't help but note that person or 'lordship' is utterly absent.
Yet the time-bound thinkers of later generations, perhaps, felt this was due to their being early-on in an 'evolution' towards 'seeing' the actual 'source'.
Yet the language will out.
'Guru' doesn't mean 'light dispelling darkness' as of or from some individual or even a heavenly pair like Siva and Parvati. It can be seen as speaking to one simple and primeval fact: differentiation requires differentiation and undifferentiation exist at once and together.
The light, the dark. Not 'good' and 'evil', just simple functions of consciousness.
And these functions or states must work simultaneously or not at all.
I've said what I've said, and won't attempt to polish it or re-edit it.
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Whatever I said: maybe the opposite! Or the opposite of the latter. You decide!
No
'Devasharman' which is appended to many names of so-called 'Brahmans' doesn't automatically confer upon them any 'authority' or right to kidnap children from their parents. That is, again, possibly, related to a perversion of an earlier common record of common art.
The entire record can be seen as familial. So, then, political issues pollute any historic 'record'.
A tiny humanity couldn't conceive of 'others', since it would have been outside any conception. Parents, earth, sun, air, waking, dreaming and the stuff breathed in dreaming making 'ether' or 'akash' and many other aspects was the stuff of daily and common experience. All were 'shining' or 'deva' or divine.
So, I'm not an enthusiast for any view that promotes some special 'seership'. It's so common that it's rediculous to promote any individual. The latter disrespects what the old odes call 'kutastha' or 'inner law'.
If it is 'law', it is universal. NO teacher needed.
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Inquiry to the "Q",... Roger that, still need a teacher.
Found your posting insightful, can you give me more info or links to your reference to Devasharman, and the culture of Prana worshipper. Perhaps a furtherance of your mention to "kustastha" or inner law would give me some answers or maybe more questions, but anywhoo, I do understand if it is "law", it is universal, but what is the respective nature of the law and it's application to freewill? What is the lightness of being/darkness playbook differentational? And an elaboration of detail on your statement of-"A political element might be understood from the modern concept of 'diksha'.When 'power' of numbers or resource-related issues came to the fore with growing populations and issues of limited resources imposed upon some 'genius' that genetic and cultural traditions might weaken grasp of that power, it was logical to transfer respect from parents to some external authority . . . as if superior to that.", .... would be benefitting to me!
Seeking the Source.