What Gorilla?: Why Some Can't See Psychic Phenomena

Imagine you're watching a basketball game. Your favorite team is wearing white and the other team is in black. In the midst of the action, someone in a dark gorilla suit calmly walks to the center of the court, waves to the crowd, then walks off the court. Do you think you would notice this peculiar event? Most people might say yes. Most people would be wrong.
Our perceptual system unconsciously filters out the vast majority of information available to us. Because of this filtering process, we actually experience only a tiny trickle of information, by some estimates a trillionth of what is actually out there. And yet from that trickle our minds construct what we expect to see. So when we pay attention to our favorite white-shirted basketball team, the likelihood of clearly seeing darker objects moving about is substantially reduced. That includes even obvious objects, like gorillas. Psychologists call this phenomenon "inattentional blindness," and it's just one of many ways in which our prior beliefs, interests and expectations shape the way we perceive the world and cause us to overlook the obvious.
Because of these blind spots, some common aspects of human experience literally cannot be seen by those who've spent decades embedded within the Western scientific worldview. That worldview, like any set of cultural beliefs inculcated from childhood, acts like the blinders they put on skittish horses to keep them calm. Between the blinders we see with exceptional clarity, but seeing beyond the blinders is not only exceedingly difficult, after a while it's easy to forget that your vision is restricted.
An important class of human experience that these blinders exclude is psychic phenomena, those commonly reported spooky experiences, such as telepathy and clairvoyance, that suggest we are deeply interconnected in ways that transcend the ordinary senses and our everyday notions of space and time.
Exclusion of these phenomena creates a Catch 22: Human experiences credibly reported throughout history, across all cultures, and at all educational levels, repeatedly tell us that psychic phenomena exist. But Big Science -- especially as portrayed in prominent newspapers and popular magazines like Scientific American -- says it doesn't.
Well then, is this gorilla in the basketball game, or not? One way to find out is to study the question using the highly effective tools of science while leaving the worldview assumptions behind. That way we can study the question without prejudice, like watching a basketball game without preferring either the white or black team. Neutral observers are much more likely to spot a gorilla, if one is indeed present.
This form of investigation has been going on for over a century, and despite official denials, the jury is in: Some psychic phenomena do exist. But like blindingly obvious gorillas, not everyone can see them. (Actually, like the majority of the general public, many scientists do have these experiences, but as in the parable of the Emperor's New Clothes, fledgling science students quickly learn in college that it is not politically expedient to talk about it.)
Here's an example of not seeing. In the July/August 2008 issue of the Skeptical Inquirer (the Playboy of the enthusiastic debunker), neuroscientist Amir Raz and psychologist Ray Hyman describe their impressions of an invitation-only scientific meeting held on "anomalous cognition" at the University of British Columbia (UBC) in July 2007. Anomalous cognition is a neutral euphemism for psychic or "psi" phenomena, one that avoids the connotation of séances and ghostbusting associated with the touchy p-words. I was a co-organizer of the UBC meeting. Sixty prominent scientists and physicians were invited to the meeting, including a couple of Nobel Laureates, representing a variety of disciplines and perspectives.
Not surprisingly, given the skeptical focus of the magazine in which their essays appeared, Raz and Hyman both concluded that they were not persuaded by what they heard at the meeting, that nothing interesting was going on, and that the scientific pursuit of anomalous cognition is akin to a misguided search for the Tooth Fairy (Raz's term).
Now, let me preface what I'm about to say by first noting that I respect Raz's and Hyman's opinions and I'm glad that they attended the UBC meeting. There is always room for critical debate in science; as President Dubya once said in another context, "Bring it on." But what I am concerned about is that sometimes holding a fruitful debate stalls before it can get off the ground because one side regards the topic as fantasy. And so to make a point I'll be ruthless in pointing out problems with these two authors' opinions.
One of Raz's principal complaints was that he would "be curious to see compelling scientific demonstrations of psi (i.e., a string of multiple successful experiments by several independent investigators producing lawful and replicable outcomes). Alas, I have found none to date."
When I first read that statement I felt like I increasingly do these days when driving past a gas station. What did that sign say? A gallon of gas costs what? Didn't we discuss several classes of repeatable experiments at the UBC meeting? For example, I presented an overview of "presentiment" experiments, an unconscious precognitive effect that has been independently and successfully replicated numerous times. (Nearly all of the 20 experiments I'm aware of to date have produced results in the predicted direction, and of those 10 were independently statistically significant.)
And among researchers who have closely studied the psi literature, the vast majority have little doubt that something interesting is going on, something not easily attributable to chance or to any known conventional artifacts. These effects are in principle no more difficult to demonstrate than the efficacy of new pharmaceutical drugs or medical procedures. Such effects tend to be small in magnitude, they are highly reactive to the psychosocial context and other environmental factors, and they take substantial amounts of careful data collection to overcome the statistical noise generated by dozens of poorly understood interactive factors. But they are real, and they are repeatable in the laboratory.
Real and repeatable, and yet what Raz meant by a "compelling" demonstration does not exist for him, at least not yet. When one regards evidence from a position where the claimed phenomenon is viewed as exceedingly unlikely, like a gorilla on a basketball court, then the evidence required to change one's mind must be super-powerful. Not merely a string of successful experiments by independent investigators, as Raz calls for, but effects that are robust enough to be easily repeatable by anyone, anywhere, any time, and highly stable over long periods of time. And better yet, the effect should be predicted by a theory that doesn't do much violence to orthodox dogma about how the world works.
This is what I call the "UFO landing on the White House lawn" type of evidence. Alas, such robust evidence is rarely available when dealing with phenomena at the bleeding edge of the known. And it's true that the evidence for psi today does not quite achieve the status of a Special News Bulletin interrupting the season finale of Lost by reporting a UFO landing on the White House lawn (would anyone believe such a story, even if it were true?). Instead, the evidence available today for psi is more like a formation of UFOs repeatedly flying over the US Capitol, captured on film and spotted simultaneously by radar, jet pilots, and hundreds of witnesses on the ground. Well, surely that would convince a few people.
Oh, wait. Such a UFO sighting actually did occur in Washington DC in 1952. All the major newspapers carried the story. But who remembers that today?
Perhaps Ray Hyman does. Hyman earned his PhD in 1953 at John Hopkins University, near Washington DC. Today, Hyman is a retired psychology professor who has been one of the premier academic critics of parapsychology for over 50 years. In his essay in Skeptical Inquirer, his major complaint was the lack of easy repeatability of psi effects. To support his claim he cited "a psi proponent reported a meta-analysis of [a class of telepathy experiments] with an average effect size that significantly differed from zero with odds of more than a trillion to one while another meta-analysis ... concluded that the average effect size was consistent with zero." (A meta-analysis is a quantitative review of many similar experiments.) He bolstered this assertion by citing a few parapsychologists who have acknowledged difficulties in producing "UFO on the White House lawn" form of evidence. From this viewpoint, he concluded that parapsychology does not deserve serious scientific attention. He's been repeating this opinion for 50 years.
Except there's a small problem. The parapsychologists mentioned by Hyman were expressing well known difficulties in producing robust repeatable effects on demand. But none of them doubt that the preponderance of evidence strongly indicates the presence of genuine anomalies. Hyman's selective reporting is akin to dismissing as worthless a clearly visible formation of UFOs flying over the US Capitol, because of a stubborn insistence that the only acceptable data are UFOs landing on the White House lawn precisely at high noon, followed by alien pilots emerging from their crafts, offering tea and biscuits to the President and Vice President of the United States, and then soberly shooting the VP in the face with a projectile weapon (due to regarding that act as a sign of diplomatic friendship, having unfortunately misinterpreted a news story regarding the Vice President's shooting his friend in the face -- but I digress).
There's another problem, one more substantial. Hyman's damning denouement was that not all meta-analyses of telepathy experiments were judged to be positive. By mentioning the meta-analysis where the "average effect size was consistent with zero," he reinforced his contention that telepathy experiments are slippery and unrepeatable, and not to be trusted. The study he cited appeared in a 1999 publication by British psychologists Julie Milton from the University of Edinburgh and Richard Wiseman from the University of Hertfordshire. They analyzed a selected subset of telepathy experiments, ended up with a positive but statistically non-significant result, and then quite reasonably concluded that nothing interesting was going on. Well, as I said, there's always room for debate. Except when conclusions are based on a mistake. It turns out that their analysis was miscalculated.
Jessica Utts, a professor of statistics at the University of California at Irvine, explained at the UBC meeting that Milton and Wiseman had employed a technique that underestimated the actual telepathy effect. If they had used the same (simpler and more powerful) technique employed in all of the other published telepathy meta-analyses, they would have reached the same conclusion that everyone else did: There is indeed significant positive and repeatable evidence for telepathy obtained under controlled laboratory conditions.
Hyman was in the audience during Utts' presentation. I don't know why he choose to ignore her analysis, although if he had acknowledged it that would have neutralized his own arguments. So perhaps its exclusion is not so puzzling.
Speculations aside, one thing is crystal clear: It can take a White House lawn party to overcome one's long-held beliefs, so if nothing obviously wrong can be found in a reported experiment, skeptics will still worry if the experiment was conducted by "believers," because they imagine that believers would not be as rigorously careful as "non-believers." Indeed, fervent skeptics are quite vocal in asserting that non-believers cannot get the same results in these experiments. Unfortunately, the fact is that skeptics hardly ever conduct these studies, and on the scant occasions when they do, they rarely publish them in sufficient detail to evaluate the results. So we really don't know whether the suspicion is justified or not.
That is, until recently. In 2005 two keenly skeptical psychologists, Edward Delgado-Romero from the University of Georgia and George Howard from the University of Notre Dame, conducted the same type of telepathy experiment under consideration here. To their chagrin, they not only obtained a significant positive outcome after conducting a series of eight studies, but their results were perfectly in alignment with the earlier meta-analytic estimates. That is, based on thousands of previous trials, it is possible to estimate the "hit rate" one should get when running a standard telepathy experiment. Delgado-Romero and Howards obtained exactly that value. To their credit, they published their results.
But their article also included an astounding twist: They ended up rejecting their own experimental evidence based on a single additional study they conducted, which they based on an ad hoc, untested design they proposed, and which ultimately resulted in a statistically significant negative outcome! Strong negative outcomes are just as important statistically speaking, and just as unlikely to occur by chance, as strong positive outcomes. Both indicate that something interesting is going on.
Another way of illustrating the invisibility of gorillas is by revealing an asymmetry in how psi experiments are reported in newspapers. In January 2008, newspapers around the world hailed the first conclusive test for telepathy conducted by two Harvard University researchers. According to the Boston Globe: "Brain scan tests fail to support validity of ESP. Research on parapsychology is largely taboo in academia, but two Harvard scientists recently set out to settle, once and for all, the age-old question: Is extrasensory perception, or ESP, real? Their sophisticated experiment answers: No, at least, not as far as they can tell using high-tech brain scanners to detect neural evidence of it."
Finally. Once and for all. A sophisticated magnetic resonance imaging brainscanner was used (technically, an fMRI), for the first time, to answer this age-old question. The high-tech "no" answer seems conclusive unless you read the actual article, which reported that one of 16 tests conducted showed a stupendously significant outcome exactly in alignment with what was predicted if psi were real. But the authors then took pains to explain why that result was probably an artifact, and so the newspapers didn't mention that one intriguing outcome. (It also makes one question why they employed an experimental design which allowed positive results to be explained away so easily.)
But the study was conducted at Harvard, for goodness sake, so surely that's the last word on ESP. After all, for the first time ever Harvard scientists used one of those expensive and mysterious fMRI brainscanners to peer deep inside the brain, and they didn't see any psi in there. End of story, no?
Well, no. Was this really the first psi study conducted using an fMRI? No, it wasn't even the second such study. Or the third. Or fourth. Or fifth. It was the sixth. And all of the earlier experiments, all conducted since 2000, showed significant evidence for psi effects. Somehow the newspapers overlooked this, despite the fact that most of those studies are freely available in an instant via PubMed.gov, the National Institutes of Health massive online bibliography of scientific articles related to health and healing.
I could continue along the same vein ad nauseum when it comes to how scientific evidence for psi is often ignored or distorted beyond recognition. Unfortunately, there are countless other tales of ignoring other invisible gorillas at the frontiers of knowledge. They include serious scientific arguments that global warming is not being caused by human activities, analyses suggesting that HIV does not cause AIDS, repeatable electrochemical-nuclear reactions once known as "cold-fusion," credible reports of UFOs, and so on. All of these ideas encounter strong sociopolitical resistance in academia, so credible counter-arguments are difficult to locate and even more difficult to discuss in scientific forums unless you have a phalanx of beefy bodyguards watching your back. One of the best sources of information about these "frontier" science topics is the Journal of Scientific Exploration, a peer-reviewed multidisciplinary journal published by the Society for Scientific Exploration.
Without belaboring the point, such tales expose a skeleton in the closet of Big Science. From the popular perspective, science is portrayed as a flawlessly rational enterprise, where accumulating evidence slowly but surely overcomes stubborn skepticism. In reality, science is like any other human activity, and as such, emotions always trump reason. There is as least as much pig-headedness and motivated inattention in science as in politics and religion.
Given the non-rational skeleton, will mainstream science ever be prepared to admit that psychic phenomena warrants serious investigation? I believe the answer is yes. Acceptance someday is inevitable. We are dealing with human experiences reported since the dawn of human history, experiences that do not go away in tightly controlled laboratory tests using the most sophisticated experimental tools and designs. So some of these phenomena will eventually become integrated into the mainstream. Exactly when I cannot say. Perhaps one to five decades.
Will this happen because the accumulated data will overwhelm skepticism? Probably not. As Max Planck, the physicist who dreamt up the idea of the "quantum" in quantum mechanics, once wrote, "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." Some of the 60 participants at the UBC meeting represented that younger generation, and while a handful of the older crowd are certain to remain mulishly skeptical to their deaths, based on the written opinions of many of the participants collected before, during and after the meeting, it was clear that the majority were more open to anomalous cognition after the meeting than they were before. I expect that trend to continue, and then one day a threshold will be crossed, and on that day some of the invisible gorillas in our midst will become a bit easier to see. The very next day no one will remember that this topic was once considered controversial.
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Please check out two animated interviews with Dean Radin, "Psychic Scientist" and Scientific Taboos", at www.iclips.net/2012 .
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Image by WTL, courtesy of Creative Commons license.
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Comments
If you want it done well, do it yourself
While I'm happy to see, that it's getting more housebroken to be interested in my own favourite, epistemology (which is closely related to 'filter-removal'), I doubt very much if we will se universal recognition for a long time.
The talking monkeys (maybe including a few gorillas) are an overwhelming majority and it's unlikely they will change from their usual activities of eating, mating, defecating, sleeping and powergrabbing just to get some reasonable answers. Actually reasonable answers are dangerous for them. At least to those of them, who make the official policies.
So brethern (and sistren ofcourse), we're on our own. Being on our own is where this present round of 'enlightenment' started somewhere around the sixties, and it gave a lot of interesting results without public approval.
Whether we need million-dollar equipment or just a meditation-pillow is a personal choice, but I do not believe one excludes the other.
Third Eye Blind
inattention
Re: McNuggetz
Amen to that. You may be interested in taking a look at the comments (at the end) on the article about the others, where I describe my own highly debatable experience.
As it is, I also keep a few spook-repelling devices around my place nowadays. Just in case. They may even function; who knows.
psychic scotoma and cognitive dissonance
I don't know what to say
If we know something, why is that grounds for castigating others who don't know that?
I can't understand why objection by other's is more important than what one has found to be true.
Are we discussing here limitations of currently held views about the nature of reality or medium or consciousness?
We already know that there are problems with popular materialistic views and ways and means of study of such under such prejudices.
Sorry. I don't get this. No one here on RS, as far as I have observed, has any problem with the idea we are, in consciousness, contiguous and completely naked to each other. We are not hidden. What's the idea here? Why should we focus on people who, for one reason or another, think they can hide themselves or who think hiding themselves is a good idea?
Why kick against the pricks? They are pricks. If you want to tell us about pricks and why you don't like 'em, you go do that. If you want to talk about communication, you go do that. Don't mix 'em up.
But I do understand your frustration . . . if that is what it is. You know what I mean.
======================
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT
Re: Rogerscott
Hi Roger,
there exist groups or ideologies with aggressively invasive attitudes, sometimes even aiming for world domination. I consider it reasonable to take a stand on this.
Personally I do not consider total passive resistance a functional option. I'm not 'enlightened' enough to withstand a fullscale massacre on my existence.
Re: Bogomil, Radin, Merrick
You're right and this topic is important and my post could have been more specific: keep doing research, keep publishing, and don't let resistance to resistance occupy ALL your energies. I am the first to second an objection to the dominant paradigm with all of its odd resistances to evidences that fall outside their convenient and accepted theories-as-dogma or "proven" facts.
There are definitely some lines of enquiry that are based on substantive experiences that should be repeatable . . . despite any tendancy to 'filter' out their existence due to so-called 'scientific rigour'.
The primary problem, as I see it, is investigation of telepathy has almost always devolved upon factors that include mental and interpretive types of tabulation.
There is another layer to this. Biological reactions that lay outside verbal and thus mental conditioning.
I can mention two such: Albert Abrams' study of the reaction of the pulse to remote influences and measured in a quantitative manner; and the rare book by L.H. Van Dyke on a study of the phosphene effect as a means of biological telegraphy. Both are easily set up to establish measurable effects or what we might call 'biological resonance'. What the individual does with these or how they are interpreted is off the table. It is merely to show that there is 'action at a distance' and in the realm of something outside personal interpretation. It is autonomic.
If such can be confirmed by repeated experiment with all the statistical or 'odds' calculations giving 'pass', it allows other levels to be given greater weight and perhaps injection of psychological analysis as to why such fail or succeed when or where these do or don't. See?
At least such would shoot down the dogma of Helmholtz that all mental awareness is entirely dependent on the known senses as false. That we are not 'hermetically sealed' in terms of utter reliance on just sight, smell, touch, taste or hearing.
All these things are properties of or extensions of the brain. Yet the brain is electro-chemical. And perhaps even ethero-electro-chemical or even spirito- ethero-electro-blah blah.
Another way to go about this: show the falsifiability of any objection.
That compels any scientist to accede to the important and pragmatic aspect of real science: We don't know. If they can show any proposition is incapable of being falsified, like the theistic hypothesis, then they have their case already finished. Otherwise, all objection is just some form of personal prejudice or a cultural prejudice. Which is why I tend to think, working with such is a waste of time. Even if they claim to be "scientists". Such research can be threatening, it seems to me, to anyone who thinks its possibility is an invasion of privacy. No doubt, directing such a capacity towards another could raise the idea of 'stalking' to entirely new levels. Imagine that.
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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT
Why
Ingo Swann on the Great Psychic Conspiracy
Dean Radin wrote:
When 99% of academia studiously ignores a topic that interests 99% of the population, something's seriously out of whack.
As my views on various topics discussed in RS are seen as "controversial," (ie there is a World Wide Conspiracy - social, political, spiritual, psychic and hyperdimensional in place, and has been for at least a few millenia, which includes both hyperdimensional demonic entities and extraterretrials using advanced technology and High Magic as weapons against humans. Hmm... I KNOW that sounds "nuts," heh. Yet I wonder how many people are trully able to See this far into the "rabbit hole"? How many out there are truly Awake and Aware about the Reality we really exist in? Maybe 1-2% of the population world wide? Or even less?), I will not offer an informed opinion nor comment. (At least not yet, heh). I rather quote from someone many of you may be familiar with given your research into psi phenomena/spirituality.
As part of a lecture on remote viewing (from the video series “Remote Viewing Through Time & Space”) Ingo Sawnn said…
“The ARE [Edgar Cayce’s Association for Research & Enlightenment], the remote viewing circles, and other spiritual/psychic organizations around the world fly directly in the face of the Great Social Commitment to keeping humans UNINFORMED about their *psychic nature*. And one of the reasons is that “they” don’t want *mind reading* to be available just to anyone. So there are social barriers to end sponsoring this kind of thing independently and they DO NOT want telepathy either.
Can you imagine what it would be like, if there were telepaths everywhere running around knowing everyone’s secrets? [ Yeah. There would be NO conspiracies! - MM]
When people used to come to SRI [Stanford Research Institute] from Washington to visit Hal [Putthof – physicist and head of the psychic research department at SRI], they would not have lunch with me because they thought I could read their minds….
That says SOMETHING.
If you think about THAT that says *something…*
http://www.amazon.com/Remote-Viewing-Through-Time-Space/dp/B0009N7OEI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1217853020&sr=1-1
Okay. Can't help it. I must add a small comment: Indeed. According to Swann, contrary to what many folks believe (“Useful Idiots” and/or professional counter intelligence agents) there is a *plethora” of conspiracies in our world including political, social, religious, and even psychic/ spiritual.
Fact is boys and girls, *conspiracies* are the way of the Real World, as much as some of you would not like it to be.
“There are NO conspiracies.” – Naomi Wolf, The Shock Doctrine, The End of AmericaAnd if you just think about it for a moment or two... if the powers that be would keep - and DO - the reality of psychic abilities out of the public's mass psyche (see johnofgod.com), do you really think they're gonna share with you anything of real importance? Like the reality of extraterretrial life or the reality of the medicinal properties of cannabis even?
Those that still question the existence of so-called "conspiracy theories" are unfortunately either brainwashed/in serious denial of Reality or worse, part of the scam/CON!
"....cannabinoids can halt the spread of numerous cancer cells -- including prostate cancer, breast cancer, lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, and brain cancer. (An excellent paper summarizing much of this research, "Cannabinoids for Cancer Treatment: Progress and Promise," appears in the January 2008 edition of the journal Cancer Research.) A 2006 patient trial published in the British Journal of Cancer even reported that the intracranial administration of THC was associated with reduced tumor cell proliferation in humans with advanced glioblastoma." (Full article): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-armentano/what-your-government-know_b_108712.html
“I don’t believe in conspiracies,” and
”Let us not believe in outrageous conspiracy theories.” – George W. Bush
"Time to WAKE UP folks. We've been HAD!" - Leonard Horowitz, Emerging Viruses, Death in the Air
Re: Dean Radin
Dean, just to make sure, that we understand each other, I'm all FOR your article.
I come from a generation, where Aldous Huxley was in vogue, and I guess my first contact with what later became 'the sixties-movement', was his analyzing the idea of 'filters'. His theory, slightly different expressed in Gurdjieff's writings and teachings on human psychology, was my first inspiration for an alternative worldview.
Are you familiar with Maslow's and Colin Wilson's connected research about 'outsiders'? 5% of humanity is described as being 'outsiders', those who not automatically will accept cultural norms, but actively will question them. The remaining 95% will just go on in the existing ruts.
This is close to your estimation of 99% disinterested academia.
(As to HOW interested the general public is about the subject, I believe it's hard to say.)
Well. There's one psychology for outsiders and one for conformists.
The outsiders have for obvious reasons less or a different kind of filters, they often question authorities and are generally troublesome for orthodoxy.
The conformists are more inclined to follow the instinctive patterns of flock-mentality, with a strong hierachy and an alpha-male as a leader.
This is what we generally see in most ideologies, whether they are political, religious or economical. Such social structures will not wellcome changes, but try to repress them at all levels, from the abstract all the way to the practical (using violence if necessary).
Obviously filters are an extremely effective way of controlling big populations (remember the 'fnords' from the Illuminatus trilogy?), and equally obvious is it, that no authorities would like to see any open research done on the subject. (Whereas they probably have a lot research done secretly about how to CREATE filters).
So my recent post attaches to your article in the sense of filters as a means for ideology-enforcement. And your interest is most likely not popular amongst our various bosses.
PSYCHIC BLINDNESS? A possible explanation
"Fortunately, because the OP can be intelligent, observant, and analytical, and because they appear to include some of our most famous scientists, they are able to describe for us how they see the world and their interior “life” very accurately and in great detail.It is said in occult studies and magic, that the "secret of secrets" is the knowledge about the existence of two "races" (I rather use the term "species of consciousness or "consiousness species" rather than "races") that exist side by side on this planet.
One of these two groups is completely BLIND to the reality of psychic phenomena (and many other things of importance such as the reality of extraterrestrial intelligence and even 9/11), while the other group readily sees the fake gorilla in the room.
Here's a very interesting article that calls those that are blind to Full Spectrum Reality, Organic Portals (OP)...
At the bottom of this is perhaps the answer as to the source of one of the most enduring debates of human history i.e. good versus evil.
Why is it that there is so much strife in the world, why are so many divided over the promotion of war or peace, respect or disrespect, environmental protection or destruction, in short, a purely material self serving outlook or a spiritual serving of others outlook?
Perhaps we are getting close to the answer, for the truth would seem to be that there is not and never has been a homogenous “we” (the human race) on the planet, “we” are not all alike, “we” do not see the world in the same way, “we” are not just a divided race, we are two different races.
It becomes clearer then why most “top scientists”, in their theories, do not consider the spiritual dimension, or quickly write off any “unconventional” theories. The OP scientist (and just how many OP scientists there are is discussed further below) has no notion whatsoever of “spirit” or of the existence of higher centers. They are incapable of experiencing these higher centers, and therefore their descriptions of the world are lacking them.
And because they cannot experience them, they deny their existence for everyone, including for those who are capable of “seeing” what the OP is incapable of seeing. In a materialistic world, where Organic Portals are in their Natural Element, and Souled Beings are NOT, with Organic Portal science drawing the boundary between what is true and what is false, there is no place for the Higher realms. It is “false” compared with the self-evident “truth” of materialism as experienced at all levels by the OP.
The Organic Portal in his role of scientists is bound to come to a materialistic explanation for the workings of the universe because that is all they know and are able to see.
This is very clear when we look at the question of consciousness itself. The answers are very revealing.
MUST READ article...
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/
ciencia/ciencia_organicportals02.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/
ciencia/ciencia_organicportals01.htm#Par01
Boris Mouravieff describes these two "races," (again, I think "consciousness species" describes them better) the "pre-adamics" and the "adamics" in his books Gnosis 1 & 2 (available on line free).
Could this be an explanation for "psychic blindness?
"Illusion, thinking it is reality, takes reality for illusion" - Boris Mouravieff
Richard Merrick
It seems to me, that our attitudes are almost identical on this subject.
Possibly 'filters' are THE intial central point concerning both social, spiritual and existential understanding and experience.
billionaires and astrology
I an really glad you quoted that line about billionaires and astrology. I think it is an sensible to ask whether there is knowledge of psychic powers among some elements of the ruling elite. Was awareness of psychic capacities and occult levels of reality preserved through secret societies, for instance?
Did the military abandon psychic research after the remote viewing program closed? The Jon Ronson book (called something like The Man Who Stared at Goats) presents journalistic evidence that there was an attempt to create psychic "super-soldiers" who could kill through psychic energy. However according to Ronson that program was closed down as well.
Dean do you know the work of Dr Nick Begich with The Lay Institute? He has written on HAARP and what he believes to be potent mind control technologies that the government is developing - technologies that can beam a voice into your head, for instance. Begich's father was an Alaskan congressman who died in a plane crash. I interviewed him and he seemed sensible and straightforward.
i have a few other questions if you care to answer them. I wonder how people at IONS feel about Edgar Mitchell's statements about UFOS which have gotten so much publicity? Also your thoughts on the work of Steven Greer, who claims to be able to call in UFOs through group meditation.
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
I'm no Dean Radin but I'll give you my thoughts...
An acquaintance recently asked me - when talking about disinformation and cointelpro in books, the Internet, articles, TV news, radio talk shows, etc. - "How does one know what is truth and what are the lies?" To which I replied: "First of all, wanting the TRUTH should be the MOST important thing in your life. Then, you must intake LOTS of information by way of books, articles and the like and THEN you must weed out all that may be lies from what may be Truth according to your understanding and awareness level. This will in turn form your (new) worldview. In other words," I said to my friend, "there's no free luch, or easy way to find out the Truth of what is (spiritual, psychic, social, political, historical, etc). It is indeed the Work - that MUST be done when Truth calls your name...." "What's more," I continued, "you always need be ready to change your worldview when presented with new data which logically as well as intuitevely makes sense."
Daniel Pichbeck wrote:
Did the military abandon psychic research after the remote viewing program closed?
There is a difference (probably pretty big one at that) between what the public knows - or rather is told - and the Truth. So I'll answer that question with what Standfield Turner (former director of the CIA) said about this very subject in a Discovery Channel special about remote viewing, paraphrasing: "Would we stop research into something other goverments might still be investigating? I don't think so."
Daniel Pinchbeck wrote:
"....HAARP and what he believes to be potent mind control technologies that the government is developing - technologies that can beam a voice into your head, for instance."
This is very true. I both have it from a world class physicist that actually worked for DARPA (name withheld) that "secret technology" like the on you mention actually exists. Imagine the stuff they are keeping from the general public... I know this isn't saying much, but at least this guy worked for DARPA.
Daniel Pinchbeck wrote:
I wonder how people at IONS feel about Edgar Mitchell's statements about UFOS which have gotten so much publicity?
This one is very interesting, Daniel. Many folks out there feel that since Edgar Mitchell is relating second hand knowledge and did not actually SEE the "singing frog," I mean, extraterrestrial alien, then, the information isn't as valid, as if he'd actually SEEN the alien.
Okay, so here I found a TV interview with Col. Philip Corso author of the book, The Day After Roswell, stating he actually SAW one of the ALIEN BODIES receovered from the crash, and how the "debunkers" are basically full of hot air for saying "extraterrestials are not real," as HE had the intelligence clearances, not them, to be not only in the know about this "Above Black" classified information, but also HANDLE the extraterrestrial cargo." (10 mi. clip. start at 3:20 or so)
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZAb1TPSK1E&feature=related
Daniel Pichbeck wrote:
Also your thoughts on the work of Steven Greer, who claims to be able to call in UFOs through group meditation.
This is an easy one: DISINFORMATION.
"The one unchangeable certainty is that nothing is unchangeable or certain." - John Kennedy
Attention, this is The Establishment Speaking.
I'd like to share my story about how I got *out* of strong interest in the paranormal.
When I was 6 or 7, my firm commitment was to one principle: "Anything is possible." To a degree I still hold to that, but my sense of shading has changed dramatically.
When I was 8 or 9, I was into "What is Real?", and naturally wondering about the occult. I would try out ESP tests on myself and my friends, and when I was 12, I had a shared dream with a close friend.
Soon after I would perform both spoon bending, work on trance states, energy play, and astral projection.
I had a number of marvelous experiences. Meanwhile, I was also very interested in science, in particular physics and chemistry. When I was 14 or 15, I started reading Quantum Mechanics books and so on.
Then I went to college. I went to Harvey Mudd College, a little known Engineering college in Claremont, CA. Mudd has 6 majors: Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, Computer Science, and Engineering. We also have a strong (and required) humanities curriculum that we take very seriously.
As I took classes at Mudd, it became apparent to me, over time, that Gary Zukav (Dancing Wu-Lei Masters) was playing fast & loose with the truth about Quantum Mechanics. My best friend at Mudd (and roommate,) Whit, a physicist, who would go on to get his PhD at Berkeley, and recently ordained as a monk at the Abhayagiri monastery, -- we would regularly compare notes. We both thought "Quantum" would really be something, and as we learned the math and physics, found increasingly, "Oh, no, it's not all that. It was just spooky music being played for us."
(Here's a paper by Max Tegmark, that explains that neurons are so enormous compared to the Quantum World, that quantum effects have no effect on them. Y'all would/should love Max Tegmark; Just please don't misunderstand him.)
But that was just one thing. I continued my practice of Surat Shabda Yoga, continued to think that psychic stuff could be real, and so on.
(PS: Yes, I've taken my acid & shrooms, talked w/ the extraplanear entities, and seen the other realms of existence. I've read sacred scriptures while elevated, and I've seen the smiling of the stars.)
Then came frustrations with my practices' conceptual layout. The spiritual experiences were fine and good, and the insights into myself and the connections I experienced with others was great. But I increasingly saw that the mental framework of it all was rife with contradiction and error. This is true of most all thought systems (because of fundamental problems with representations,) but it's specially true of what basically amounts to a flat-earth cosmology. If someone tells you things that make no sense, you have to ditch them.
Burned both by what I was being taught about reality (Quantum Mechanics says X!), and burned philosophically (creation stories and perfect enlightenment,) -- there was still my experiences. "My experiences couldn't be wrong, could they?"
I held onto my experiences deeply for several years. And yet, the more I read Scientific American Mind, the more they unraveled.
The "energy" that I feel is a reproducible experience and explainable by how the mind reconstructs experience by vision. For example, when scientists touch a hand that a person believes is their own, the person who believes it's their own will feel the tactile sense of being touched. And yet it's not their hand. How does this happen? Well, your mind is constantly cross-referencing from very little data, and it makes short-cuts. And it will make short-cuts at abstract levels, not just raw data, so you get very interesting experiences: Signs that say "NORTH" but are read as "SOUTH," letter per letter in the sensorium. You get all the weird forms of brain damage, where people can read, but they can't recite the vowels in words. Or people feel touch before it happens, even if they only saw an intent to touch. We can "feel" lines in our head, and perform the 3d projections; Is it really surprising that we feel the imaginary orb in our hands?
Out-of-body experiences can be induced with clever camera tricks, clever camera tricks that are like exact replicas of the visualization exercises that I read out of my OOBE training books. Except now the scientists have debuggers on the brain, and are watching exactly what's going on, and what parts of the brain are producing the experience.
Sci American recently had an article on studies on mice; It was found that mice are allocating neurons to exactly mirror surfaces that they stand on. So if a mouse is walking on a table, they can pinpoint individual neurons in the rat that rework themselves to map the entire table surface into perfect isosceles triangles, and as the mouse walks over them, the neurons light up in perfect correspondence with the position of the mouse on the table. Our brains work by making replicas of the outer world in our heads, and manipulating them.
The more I reflected on my experiences, what I was reading, and what I was seeing, the more it became clear to me that our touch on reality is fragile, and that science really is our best bet, with regards to connecting with reality.
Today I am a naturalist. And a naturalist I shall remain for the rest of my life, because evidence to the contrary will not arise. The UFO's will not land, and people won't start arranging meetings by telepathy.
Consciousness is indeed a mystery, (my thoughts are basically David Chalmer's,) but this mystery does not overpower physics. Our entire visible universe's lifetime is likely only a split second in a much larger and much more incomprehensible greater reality, and yet this is the one my consciousness will wake up in for the remainder of my days here.
I am not in the slightest disappointed to find myself in naturalism. I thought that naturalism would be a deadened place-- I know for sure it is for most of the secular humanists I have known or met.
But there is an emerging naturalism that is different than the naturalisms that have come before. This new naturalism pays much more than just lip service to the imagination, and is not content with the secular world as we find it... But that's another story for another day.
So, <ahem,> "This is the Establishment Speaking." Consider yourself ridiculed, suppressed, and notified of imminent witch burning. May the dramas in your minds run wild, buy ultimately lead you to the truth; You'll find it if you're really looking for it.
Obviously LionKimbro is
All his points against psi are valid, based on empirical data, and you can't disprove them.
So all remaining are ad hominem attacks...
Is no criticism allowed against psi?
why lame
no, I just like to be anonymous.
And LionKimbro is still the best statement against Psi I have had read in the last time.
And his ego is certainly not the topic of his post.
Nothing Like the "Real Thang"
LionKimbro wrote:
Out-of-body experiences can be induced with clever camera tricks, clever camera tricks that are like exact replicas of the visualization exercises that I read out of my OOBE training books. Except now the scientists have debuggers on the brain, and are watching exactly what's going on, and what parts of the brain are producing the experience.
That’s pretty much like saying that “orgasms” can be induced by different types of “tricks” like hand jobs, “pocket pals” (and “pocket rockets” for the females), some types of fresh produce and even some types of pies. But as we all know, there's nothing like the "real thang." Right? (Hmm. I wonder if you ever experienced the "real thing..." Ummm? Because I can assure you, that if you truly had expereienced the Real Thang, you would not have made the post and hold the position you do. In these (end) times it is indeed very revealing don't you know.
You state: “clever camera tricks that are like exact replicas of the visualization exercises that I read out of my OOBE training books.”
Dude, I’ll let you in on a little secret: having an orgasm resulting from “Han Soloing” it is no where near the same as the “real thing”!! ; )
Similarly (kinda...), the “OBE camera tricks” you mention are NOT the real thing!
Real (as in Objective) Psychic Experiences like the ones discusses by professional psychics like Ingo Swann (who developed remote viewing for US Intelligence operations) and Edgar Cayce, the "sleeping prophet" - where gifted folks go into an “altered state” and “see” happenings that are (really) occurring elsewhere, either on this planet or elsewhere. FACTUAL happenings, LionKimbro. Which cannot be faked with "OBE camera tricks."
I mean, this is getting soooo OLD... I can cite TONS of examples and data but I'm not one that likes to do other people's homework. But really, at this point in time and this far into the game, what you cite as "debunking examples" is silly.
What's more, Princeton University, after nearly 3 decades of PRODUCING “proof” stopped, as they had no where to store more "proof." Yet folks such as yourself continue to DENY what is right in front of their eyes.
One question on 9/11 and the WTC:
What brought down the buildings? Airplanes and jet fuel, as per the “official story”? OR not? (Simple "yes," or "no," question.)
Answer that to yourself, and you’ll know whether you are either spiritually Blind or, are one of those that See reality for what it IS, perhaps even aliens and Illuminati/conspiracies included!
"The world is run by insane people for insane objectives." - John LennonRe: Monkeyblood and Daniel Pinchbeck
Monkeyblood. At the present the stake is not politically correct.
Instead detentioncamps outside the legal system will be used, and the more insistent of the ideologically dissidents will be pumped full of scientifically correct tranquilizers, until their brains turn into mush.
Daniel: In recent historical time Hitler clamped heavily down on the psi-gifted. Considering his own rather welldocumented connection with the Thule society, he obviously wanted a monopoly.
Re: LionKimbro
It may come as a big surprise for you, that some of us 'belivers' out here also have a sound scientific background, which we have incorporated in our evaluations of what reality is or possibly could be.
That you have made the choice to base your approach to 'reality' on scientific reductionism is no problem for me. It rather emphasizes the central point in the ongoing discussion on this thread: What happens to a consciousness, when the filters cut in?
In your case you have become a scientific fundamentalist, with a fixed beliefsystem nothing will be able to change. This ofcourse sounds like I'm trying to ridicule you, but that's not the case.
In your otherwise broad background, you have omitted a very important part of the whole subject, namely the epistemological aspect. Especially scientific epistemology.
If you take a closer look at science, you will find that from its basic assumptions science is just as self-fullfilling as a lot of other beliefsystems. In a beliefsystem you arrive at the conclusions, which were already build in the system from the start. And what is not convenient, is filtered away as 'irrelevant', no matter how logic it is, or how much empiric or pragmatic observations supports it.
So alleluja brother, wellcome to the world of tunnel-reality.
Re: zezt
Sometimes you have to use the language of the 'tunnel-reality-dwellers' to communicate with them.
Because if we don't at least try, they will erupt into one of their interminable tribal wars (maybe they will anyway). And this time they have toys to blow the whole place up.
I hope nobody believes, I find it amusing or enlightening to argue with fundamentalists. It's only that I have this need for physical survival some years more.
Re: Mr. Mysterio
That a lot of people won't accept the idea of 'conspiracies' isn't so strange. They live in a 'reality' where the continuation of the time-honoured concept of tribal wars has just reached a grander scale.
They do not see conspiracies, they see a world full of good guys and bad guys, the bad ones always being those on the other side of the fence, no matter who you are or where you are.
So our wise leaders will happily blow the planet to kingdom come in the certain assurance, that they did it full of righteous machismo.
That cannabis is so impopular with authorities probably comes from the fact, that it can momentarily neutralize some of our filters. And 'de-filtering' is close to treason, because it can threaten 'the safety of the state' (more precisely the safety of the alpha males), because people start asking inconvenient questions.
We have wellfunctioning political systems, which are perfectly democratic one day every third or fourth year (on election day), and we just can't have anybody disrupting these liberal paradises because of clear thinking.
The OTHER Gorilla in the room...
You know Bogomil, in reading over Dean Radin's article again, I noticed that the analogy of the gorilla in the room - that some folks can't seem to SEE it because of their cultural "blinders" - accurately describes the same phenomena insofar the events of September 11th are concerned!Interestingly, I have personally witnessed friends become agitated and even violent when shown a video like 9/11 Revisted or 9/11 Mysteries. As suddenly when confronted with the truth - the (FAKE) gorilla is pointed out to them on the videos (like 9/11 Revisited) and they realize what it is they are seeing (and thinking, as a result) - they immediately go into "software failure" mode! They immediately fight for the Lie, their belie f against all evidence to the contrary.
I have lost MANY friends to the Truth of 9/11.
In my book, anyone who KNOWINGLY DENIES the Truth about 9/11 (basically that the "official myth" is a huge lie that even a grade schooler could take apart) because it serves them either politically, carreer wise, etc. - or makes light of it - is a very f-up person.
I'm sorry but these truth denying folks cannot be "good people." When they KNOWINGLY deny reality to serve their own illsuions and delusions at the expense of others! These folks much rather close their eyes to what IS - REALITY - and instead continue to live in fantasy land.
Unfortunately when the proverbial s**t hits the fan, it will be THEIR fault for not being able to be truthful and honest with themselves and DOING the Right Thing and helping others demand JUSTICE for those that have been harmed and killed because of the Big Foul 9/11 Lie.
Instead of standing up for the Truth - the ONLY right thing to do for our brothers and sisters who died as a result of this Lie - they chose to side with the 9/11 Gorilla almost everyone SEES but don't want to really acknowledge. And they have done this of their own choice/freewill... (Talk about karma...)
SPIRITUAL EMERGENCY INDEED.
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7." ~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Dir. Bldg. & Fire Research Lab. (NIST)
"We are [still] unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse." (NIST)
Oppose Scientism
Our view of the world is broken not because science is false, but because our interpretation of what science demonstrates is broken. What's happened is that we've taken the world at the lowest level scientific description, and turned it into the primary myth for our lives: We live as if we were molecules banging against each other in empty space.
This is a deep problem, and this is the "scientism" that I'm opposed to.
One of the clearest examples of this brokenness is in things like the modern treatment of ADD & depression. Radical behaviorism was popular in the 1950's, and was rightly thrown out. But strangely, it has made a resurgance again today, just in the form of "the brain makes the thoughts, and the disease is the chemicals in the brain." The only thing really supporting this view, is a bunch of heuristics that don't really hold any substantial weight.
I very strongly hold that spirituality (and by spirituality, I mean the unity behind humanities, being, imagination, creativity, mission, sight, vision, listening, history, and so on) is the most important thing for our souls and for our planet, at this point in time.
Re: Richard Merrick, LionKimbro and not least bugmenot
Richard, I like your open attitude. For me it's totally unimportant if we redefine science's parameters, so it can contain f.ex. psi and UFOs, or if we let the 'unusual' develop its own method for understanding.
A lot of the visible disagreements stem from the wish of defending certain belief-systems, rather than to find answers. Similar to religious sects fighting about minor dogmatic points.
LionKimbro. You could at least explore your own 'tunnel', before going public. To use Gary Zukav as an argument for or against the value of quantum physics only shows, that you haven't grasped the most elementary facts of it. Quantum physics isn't only saying: "We know nothing, but our ignorance is very fascinating". It does come with some definitive statements of deep importance.
That you gave up your own trust in the consciousness-changing techniques, alternatively don't trust the results, is one thing. But to draw conslusions from this is another.
Had you experienced some of the 'reality'-orientated results of these methods, you would maybe be of a different opinion.
Cit Bugmenot:
"All his points against psi are valid, based on empirical data, and you can't disprove them."
Are you joking? Maybe you can't see it yourself, but what you're saying is, that psi is DEFINED away. That it doesn't exist, because it doesn't fall inside science's narrow methodological parameters.
"I have closed my eyes, I can't see it. So it doesn't exist."
Try again.
In all Fairness to "LionKimbro"
Bigomil wrote:
Are you joking? Maybe you can't see it yourself, but what you're saying is, that psi is DEFINED away. That it doesn't exist, because it doesn't fall inside science's narrow methodological parameters...."I have closed my eyes, I can't see it. So it doesn't exist."
I must be honest and say that, although I have had many "paranormal happenings" occur throughout my life including out of body experiences, interactions with discarnate entities and even alien abduction/seen UFO - with and without entheogens - all of these experiences being SUBJECTIVE, of course, and therefore nicely fitting into my "singing frog" analogy - yet strangely VERY REAL to me intuitevely - it wasn't until these strange occurances began to "cross over," so to speak, to this reality - and I was able to show other people Objective "artifacts" for instance from my own experiences/explorations, that I knew 100%, without one single shred of doubt, that PSI is very real.
Again, this was because I had the proverbial "proof" in hand and no one could deny THAT. (Unless they willfully want to be blind to what IS.)
I bring this up to point out that if one truly is honest with oneself and has not had an Objective psychic experience BUT *intuitevely* knows that they are real then it is cool.
But if some people have not had Objective psychic experiences and are in doubt, then don't be too hard on these folks for not "believing." Maybe they need more.
Curiously and paradoxically, they will NOT "experience/see it (Real psi phenomena) until they believe it... (Or rather, "intuitevly know" that it is possible, that PSI exists).
For whatever it's worth, I don't "believe." I KNOW that psi and discarnate entities and UFO's are real based on Objective experiences.
"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious." - Carl Gustav Jung
>what you're saying is, that
But it can only be defined away, because there are no relevant, strong psi effects.
Why do we use phones and airplanes instead of telepathy/-kinetic/-portation?
And for the small effects still exists no solid proof, like a meta-analyse with a z-score over 7 (better 10 or even 15, to meet the old point "extraordinary claims...") which is not lowered below this value by an later analyse using more studies, or?
A response
Daniel asked, "I wonder how people at IONS feel about Edgar Mitchell's statements about UFOS which have gotten so much publicity?"
Here's IONS position: http://www.ions.org/main/HomePage/PR_EM_UFO.pdf
I've posted my opinion on my blog: http://deanradin.blogspot.com/2008/07/another-elephant-in-room.html
RE:Ideological Massacre
MonkeyBlood,
Your comment on the "psi community being the dirty mistress of big business" raises another interesting point, that of gifted individuals working within (rather than for) organisations. I've met someone, a senior manager working for a large company in the HealthCare industry, who has clairaudient abilities..I'm no longer in touch with this person but I'd say it's reasonable to assume that they use their gift within their working environment, as it probably gives them a competitive advantage. It would be interesting to know how many people have and use these gifts daily in their work - either consciously (and keeping very quiet about it) or unconsciously.
I can imagine a day (probably sooner rather than later) when psi will shift from being something "out there" and a bit "woo-woo" to something that say team leaders factor in when staffing a project, or HR departments specifically hire intuitive feelers to resolve staff conflicts (for example).
I also find it remarkable how open people are to discussing this topic. My girlfriend absolutely refuses not too talk about it, it's so integral to who she is. Several times I've seen her talk with my friends and family about what she terms "our spiritual nature" and invariably all the chairs in the room face towards her and you can hear a pin drop while she speaks. She finds that about 9 out of 10 people will talk about it..and her opinion is that everyone has the potential for these abilities - but if you don't believe in them you'll never develop them.
~
Metasattva wrote:
"I also find it remarkable how open people are to discussing this topic."
Reminds me of listening to Rupert Sheldrake relay stories of talking about psi phenomena in academic settings, and having scientists approach him after a lecture to discuss their experiences. Many won't discuss it publicly, but in a private setting, the floodgates sometimes open.
Dean Radin wrote:
"As Max Planck wrote...A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
I think this holds a lot of weight. I think it also applies to somewhat to socio-political change. There seems to be this tendency as we get older to become more rigid in our views.
Metasattva wrote:
"her opinion is that everyone has the potential for these abilities - but if you don't believe in them you'll never develop them."
I tend to agree that there has to be at least a tiny sliver of belief or openness. And I think openness is directly tied into humility, humbleness.
The amazing diffusion of yoga, the vine of the soul, and other heart and mind-opening, humbleness-inducing 'spiritual technologies' make me optimistic for us and future generations.
1 more comment: just to add to the chorus of thanks to Dean Radin for his articles and brave work. I think there's something comparable between Galileo Galilei and Radin/Sheldrake/Ralph Abraham and others.
Re: Metasattva
I absolutely agree with Monkeyblood.
I've been hanging around the alternative scene for 40+ years, where I at the beginning saw some dedicated people questioning the more stupid variety of social taboos etc. and suggesting functional alternatives (This doesn't mean, that I agree with all of their methods or conclusions).
What I see now is to a high degree a cottage industry based on crass commercial 'dynamic' capitalism, where anybody can get status as a healer, guru or whatever after a few weekend courses. Usually charging as much or more than a craftsman or an academic with several years of education.
Those who have a natural talent or gift for unorthodox approaches to humanity's many ailments, be it practically or spiritual, are often sucked into this $$$$ way of thinking, thereby helping to degenerate the whole thing.
It's shallow, and it stinks.
Filters revisited
On my part I would like to return to the main subject here: Filters.
And sorry if I will sound a bit lecturing, but there are some aspects of filters not mentioned sofar. Their origin and function in the human psyche.
As biological beings became more complex along the lines of evolution, creating a broader scope of awareness, a need arose for a mechanism, which would help in the survival evaluation of 'food, fight or flee'. Which information from the surroundings is important, which is not? Filters started there, as a means of sorting out relevant from irrelevant.
It was a kind of primitive 'good'/'bad' function, based on the need for survival in a tooth and claw ecology.
With the human intellect outgrowing the rest of human nature, we are now in a position, where we can construct the most fantastic gadgets and dominate most of our surroundings, but we haven't developed a correspondingly advanced psychological function for DIRECTING all these intellectual results.
'Good' and 'bad' is still mostly based on reptile-brain, alpha (fe)male, territorial (etc.etc.) evaluations, quite insufficient for the present situation.
And fundamentally this obsolete function has taken over, and now acts as a 'master' in our behaviour, rather than a 'servant'.
Filters are to keep out things, but from this process an inverted function will arise. By keeping things out, we put mental blinkers on ourselves. What already exists inside a psyche is this way reinforced, and we can't escape.
Many efforts have been made to remove these blinkers (filters), well............ any comments?
PS Mr. Mysterio. I just read your last post. While we seem to agree on the basics, your conclusions about the 9/11 is outside my competence to deal with.
"Reality Filters," Bogomil?
Bogomil wrote:
While we seem to agree on the basics, your conclusions about the 9/11 is outside my competence to deal with.
I think here we are dealing precisely with one of your filters, Bogomil!
The "truth of 9/11" does not need “experts” nor “special studies” nor anything of the sort. I assure you. It is simply about basic logic and nothing more! Really!
I’m going to show you now how what you yourself wrote in your post DIRECTLY applies to you! (Wow. This is very intersting...) Talk about the subconscious communicating with the conscious mind!
In the simplest of terms take one of the Twin Towers:
* 110 floors
* Each floor is 1 acre in size (made out of concrete reinforced with steel).
* The building “fails” and therefore “collapses”.
Simple question is, if it takes 1 second per floor (110 floors) for the structure to collapse to the ground, then it would be logical and natural for the collapse (following grade school math now and Newtonian physics NOT quantum physics , heh) to take about 110 seconds. Correct? Anyone dispute that?
So maybe the “greys” were involved and somehow because of this, it took only half a second per floor for the entire structure to collapse. Again, simple math gives us a total of 55 seconds – for all 110 stories to come down. Yet as the available (all over the Internet!! www.911Revisted.com for example) footage CLEARLY shows, the entire Twin Tower structures/buildings “collapse” to DUST in 10-11 seconds time! No kidding. Get a stop watch and watch the TV footage and you'll SEE this anomaly.
This means Bogomil, using basic math again, that at said peed, 11 floors had to turn to dust PER SECOND. Get that?
I’ll repeat it again: To get that to happen, 11 floors had to turn to dust PER SECOND!
How do you turn 11 (eleven) acre sized floors of concrete reinforced with steel into size 50 micron dust particles (which is to say, the thickness of a hair’s shaft) in ONE second? Hello?! (Lucy!)
Fact is, the Twin Towers came down at the same speed than if someone was to drop a billiard ball from the top of one the Twin Towers WITH NO RESISTANCE from each floor below AT ALL. And this happened as result of JET FUEL??? Really? Holy magic collapsing floors, Batman!
(That’s just impossible.... UNLESS *something else* was used.)
Hmm... I wonder how many folks are blind to THIS gorilla.... and how many SEE it for what it is?To quote you:
"Filters are to keep out things, but from this process an inverted function will arise. By keeping things out, we put mental blinkers on ourselves. What already exists inside a psyche is this way reinforced, and we can't escape."
I think you should read that last bit of your post very carefully. As it seems to me that your SUBCONSCIOUS mind is trying to communicate a very important truth to your (and others') conscious mind. Listen to your mind...
Peace in the Middle East!
“There is nothing so powerful as truth, and often nothing so strange.” - Daniel Webster
Same post twice...
Filters & Shading
As far as I can tell, once you've figured out what spirit, principle, god, idea, people, what have you-- once you've figured out what should be the reigning X, ...
... All filters & their shading follow naturally.
And tradeoffs are the rule, not the exception; There's no getting around tradeoffs in the worlds of forms.
These ideas about filters are not an "us vs. them" question ("we, the unfiltered;" -- "they, the filtered;") -- these are factual statements about all of life. The question is just what filters do you approve of, which do you disapprove of, for what purpose, (and so on.)
We can't say, "filters are bad," without cutting our own throats; We can only say, "Those filters are bad, these filters are good, in service of X."
Upside down
Cit LionKimbro:
"We can't say, "filters are bad," without cutting our own throats;"
Why not?
Actually I would prefer to skip my filters first, and THEN find a god, principle or whatever.
That is, if I would still find such necessary.
Everything Filters
There's no way to skip filters; Everything is filtered.
We all filter by the color of our skin, we filter by our sex, we filter by our aesthetics, we filter by our words and thoughts.
There is not a single thought or thing that does not filter.
We filter against bugs, by our skin.
To defy filter is to defy mind, thought, emotion. This is great, for experiencing the non-dual, but we always find ourselves back in the mental, emotional, material worlds- the worlds of form.
Whenever what is from the non-dual worlds comes into the dual worlds, it always assumes a form or a shape; It can't exist here without it.
So if the spirit inhabits emotion, then it becomes an emotion. If it inhabits thought, then it becomes a thought. It can become a whole system of thought, a philosophy. All of these things are filters, and all of them filter. There is no incarnate existence without filtering.
So this is what I mean by, "We can't say filters are bad without slitting our throats."
Yes, to see the non-dual, we need to do just that ("put our head on a platter.") But we always return and live in the dual worlds. That's what we're doing talking here, sharing thought-forms, ideas, feelings, memories, and so on.
When you "skip your filters first," and then come back, you can choose a god, principle, or whatever, it is your option; But it will always be a form, even if it is a signifier for the undivided.
So Buddhists say "Void," conjuring images of empty space. So Jews say "God," conjuring images of incarnate old people. So Christians say "Word," conjuring voices and trumpets. So abstract analysts say "Nondual," conjuring philosophies and so on. Everything here is colored, shades, and filters, in meaningful/consequential ways.
Even if you don't use words, even if you construct a complex but unspecified spirit or way, (only to be detected and revealed by interaction,) inasmuch as it has any consistency, (even if it is an imperceptible consistency,) it is still a form.
All form, all filter.
Anything to keep that damned silence at bay
Cit LionKimbro:
"Even if you don't use words,...."
You ever considered trying it?
How do we open the gates of the mind?
"Reality - absolute, unknowable, ineffable - is denigrated on its journey through the prismatic vector of the perceptor, be it that of an individual or a collective. The course of this process manifests apprehension and prejudice, not intentionally, but inevitably, reality-tunnels auto-constitute, every experience that can be construed confirmational, reinforces, all evidence that is refutational or cannot be reconfigured into confirmation, is partitioned off through displacement. Unfortunately, many of these perceptional journeys end in the extreme realms of personal certitude, belief, and other pathologies. When absolute certitudes of any kind, limit the exploration of potentiality, the evolution of knowledge is inhibited. It is interesting that we tend to define reality on the basis of our ability to 'see' i .e. that which we can observe and measure, capture and dismantle, and our relationship with the sense of scale which this provides. The need to categorise, compartmentalise and reduce, can lead experimentalists too close to their subject, occluding them from the greater wholistic system, one which is tangibly greater than the sum of its parts."
extract from 'What A Hideous Waste of Matter' by the mad me
http://decontaminated-continuum.blogspot.com
Re: negentropic_object
Well, that's another way of putting it.
Neg, you mind if I get familiar and call you that?
You wouldn't have anyone in your family calling him/herself 'strong anthropic principle?'
Chortle
Social Filtering
When we agree with someone, their words are not only correct, but further: beautiful, and worthy of praise. We celebrate their character.
When we disagree with someone, their words are rife with corruption, pride, conceit, contradiction, just plain ugly, and an invitation to contemptuous treatment. What character is there, to speak of?
This is how filtering works, within a community.
To restate, through negentropic's elegant paragraph:
"Reality - absolute, unknowable, ineffable - is denigrated on its journey through the prismatic vector of the perceptor, be it that of an individual or a collective. The course of this process manifests apprehension and prejudice, not intentionally, but inevitably, reality-tunnels auto-constitute, every experience that can be construed confirmational, reinforces, all evidence that is refutational or cannot be reconfigured into confirmation, is partitioned off through displacement."
Pride
MonkeyBlood: There is no "Lion/Mysterio"
I can assure you that I am "me" (Mr Mysterio) and LionKimbo is someone else.
And just to make things extra clear I never emailed you nor anyone on this forum. (And I'm no paid agent either).
Peace.
Retraction Request
Monkeyblood, this is my public request that you retract two false statements:
* that I wrote to you that you were "the scumbag of the earth,"
* and then, that I made "specious attempts to justify rape."
And I recommend that you carefully reread any email I have sent to you.
I wrote neither of those lines.
OK, I see what's going on.
Monkeyblood, first, an apology: I did not make it clear enough in my email to you, that I was quoting.
But, I was. I wrote neither of those two lines.
I wasn't the author of them. I thought it would be clear to you. I told you that I had come across a message in a forum (in the same email,) and I referred to it as "the attached message."
I was relaying to you, "Well, here's some of why men are angry with women, in their own words."
Here is the source that I was quoting.
It's someone named Louis Caswell, who I don't know.
I thought that my preface, indenting, and the fact that-- I mean, the indented text is totally not my language, and I have always been perfectly clear that I think feminism was a good thing, both privately, and in public.
Have I ever said, "Feminism is bad, feminism shouldn't exist, feminism was a mistake?" Have I ever spoken that "feminists are scumbags," or anything even remotely close to it?
I will say that feminism has made some mistakes, but have I ever said that feminism was bad? No! The exact opposite!
In fact, I've repeated emphatically, both publicly and in private message to you, that I'm glad that feminism happened, that women are liberated, that women (using my daughter as an example even,) are encouraged and free to persue their dreams, and so on.
Monkeyblood, (I'd use your real name, but I believe you want to remain anonymous,) do you see now that I have never called you a scum bag, and that I have never "attempted to justify" rape?
If you'd explained your reaction to me in email, we could have cleared this all up. If you called, I would have explained. I tried to connect with you, to ask, "What's going on?", but you'd never respond to anything.
cjmoore,
Fix to Broken Link
I just noticed that the link was broken:
Here's the complete, working link.
Those are the words of Louis Caswell, who's message I quoted in an email to Monkeyblood, to show by source why (some) men are frustrated with women and feminism.
To be perfectly clear, I do not share Louis Caswell's idea that "Feminists are truly the scum of the earth," nor have I ever said anything even similar to that.
This is the source of the confusion: Monkeyblood thought that I was saying these things, because my quoting was not clear enough.
Repetition & Damanhur
I will repeat what I wrote to you in a following private email, a private mail I don't know if you've even ever read:
"And-- what I believe are the Deep, True, Honorable, Just intentions of Feminism-- (which it would take too long to describe right now, but includes liberation from gender roles, freedom to pursue wherever the creative spirit would lead, dignity for all people, intelligence & wisdom, the spiritualization of the human being, and so on--) I hold these at the very center of my heart.
Never doubt that."
cjmoore, I hope you're paying attention; In the same email, I also wrote: "It's true I don't speak flowery and poetically like cjmoore. ... I admire all of those things, even though it's just not who I am."
If you'd like a resend, gmail's keeping it forever and ever; I'd really like you to read it.
Would you accept my apologies, for having written unclearly? I'd still like to be your friend. I'm sorry there's been this confusion; You better believe I'm going to be super-careful whenever I quote anything, for any purpose, from here on out, to make it absolutely clear who the source is and why I'm quoting it.
I'd love to share a selection from Merrifield,on their Damanhurian perspective on gender & sexuality; It's inspired my own thoughts on how I hope that the story of genders will play out in America.
Yes, Damanhur is extremely important to me, and, in fact, I take the plane next Tuesday, early morning, to Italy, so that can visit and observe Damanhur first-hand. My entire life is pivoting around Damanhur, at this point in time.
My apologies to everyone for the distraction, though I personally think this thread has basically run its course anyways.