The Traumatizing Mythology of 9/11/2001

We live by stories. One could even argue that we are our stories.
Our stories connect past to future; they relate our individual transient experiences to larger themes of family, tribe, landscape, and cosmos. Those who survive the deepest horrors do so by means of a story that gives meaning to their lives under the horrific circumstances they must endure. Those who lose their stories can lose the will to live. Very little damages the human soul more than a confused, broken, or lost story of meaning.
In the United States, our national story of meaning for the beginning of the new millennium is broken, and this confused story has traumatized the nation more deeply than any of the events the story relates. We cannot understand what happened -- thus, we cannot plan for the future.
This is our story: on September 11, 2001, our country was attacked, and a pair of mythic icons in the New York City skyline fell; we don't know why, except that it was done by "terrorists" who "hate our country" for reasons that we can't clearly articulate. We went on a vengeance hunt for the bad guy responsible for the attack -- there's a story we all know and love. But then we stopped looking for the bad guy and instead invaded Iraq. We don't know why, but we were told it had something to do with keeping a madman with weapons of mass destruction (weapons that it turns out everyone knew didn't really exist) from vaporizing the United States (which we knew wouldn't happen), so that we could force his people at gunpoint to have their own democratic elections. The bad guy we were originally chasing got away, but no one cares about that any more and, of course, we don't know why. There were no further terrorist attacks of any substance against the United States; we don't know why. In the five years between 2001 and 2006, the US government legalized torture of prisoners, indefinite imprisonment without trial, warrant-less wiretaps, and a perpetual Condition Orange that means a tube of toothpaste in my backpack on an airplane is a deadly threat to the security of the country; all this was done in the name of protecting our "freedoms" as American citizens.... Need I go on?
The story we've settled upon doesn't make any sense. None at all.
I have encountered a different story that I would like to share. It isn't satisfying -- it is actually quite disturbing. But it is at least coherent.
This story begins in the late 1940's, when a geologist named M. King Hubbert started lecturing about "peak oil." He testified on the subject before Congress in the early 1970's. Hubbert's tale is about the economics of exploiting any non-renewable resource, be it oil, copper, or good quality flints for spears. In broad terms, production rises and prices drop: then production drops and prices rise. Somewhere in between, production reaches a "peak" where availability is as high and prices are as low as they will ever be. After the peak, prices rise until the resource becomes too expensive to use. This arc of production is as inevitable as the trajectory of a thrown stone. There is no question whether this peak will occur for any given non-renewable resource. The only question is when.
Hubbert's story predicted a production peak for petroleum some time in the twenty-first century, and as worldwide consumption rose through the last half of the twentieth century, the predicted peak moved earlier in time. By 1990, it was clear that the peak would occur within the first two decades of the new century. In the absence of new sources of energy at least as cheap and plentiful as oil, the consequences would be grim, according to this story. Our technological civilization would turn backward as cheap energy vanished -- depending on how the peak was managed, it might collapse completely. The United States, with its entire national infrastructure built around cheap oil, would be especially vulnerable.
In 1990, Saddam Hussein of Iraq invaded Kuwait. He was driven out of Kuwait during Iraq War I, and the war and subsequent economic sanctions damaged his country so badly that it was unable to exploit its own oil fields for over a decade. As a result, Iraq now sits atop what are expected to be the last producing oil fields of substantial size in the whole world. Every other untapped reserve is either small by comparison, or expensive to recover, or both.
In early 2001, Vice President Dick Cheney convened the National Energy Policy Development Group (NEPDG), composed of undisclosed participants; in May of 2001, this group produced its final report. Despite numerous lawsuits under the Freedom of Information Act, former Vice President Cheney refuses to release the contents of the report or the identities of the participants. This report certainly had something to say about peak oil, the dire consequences for the US, and the existence and estimated quantity of the oil lying under Iraqi soil.
I speculate that the report recommended that the US take control of the Iraqi oil fields by force.
If that speculation is correct, the problem would have been how to start the war. The world was relatively quiet in early 2001, the US economy -- except for the tech bubble collapse, which everyone seemed to view as an inexplicable anomaly -- seemed a final vindication of American Free Market Capitalism, and the wave of the future was "globalization." To do something as 18th-century as invading another country for its resources would require -- as the Neoconservatives had been saying for at least a decade -- that the United States experience a "new Pearl Harbor," a "Day of Infamy" that would enrage the American public, unite a fractious Congress, and grant the President nearly unlimited authority to make war.
In September, four months after the NEPDG report was completed, the World Trade Center towers fell, the President proclaimed war on "terror" with nearly unanimous Congressional support (how much broader a charter could one wish for?), and the US invaded Iraq with no exit strategy.
In 2008, we elected a new President who campaigned on a platform of getting us out of Iraq. You might remember that he went into office with the apparent intent to pull all the troops out of Iraq by June of 2009. After his first 100 days, that plan was scuttled, and now the entire issue has vanished from the news and the short-term memory of the American public. The troops are still there. The fortified bases are still there. The oil is still there.
So far this isn't a story, it is just a string of facts: Hubbert told a tale about oil, Iraq didn't develop the oil the geologists believe is there, Cheney convened a secret energy conference, the Twin Towers fell, the US invaded Iraq, Obama reneged on his promise to get us out of Iraq.
Let me turn these facts into a story.
In early 2001, President George W. Bush and Vice-President Richard Cheney, both oilmen hailing from families deeply involved in oil for decades, decided to act on the conviction that the Hubbert Peak was real, imminent, and spelled a terrible doom for the United States. Many others in the US government believed this, perhaps ever since the 1970's when Hubbert first told his story to Congress. Oil companies certainly believed it, and were planning their business strategy around it. Cheney initiated the NEPDG, which recommended that the US take control of the oil fields in Iraq as a national strategic imperative -- partly to buy breathing room for the US as global oil prices rose, but also to prevent the Iraqi oil, presumptively the last cheap oil in the world, from falling under the control of nations hostile to the US. The war-planning necessarily included the attack on the World Trade Center; some such public incident was needed to provide the political impetus for war. On September 11, the WTC attack occurred (as planned), the President was given a blank check to pursue "terrorists" anywhere he wished (as planned), and in March of 2003 the US invaded Iraq to establish control over Iraqi oil. Mission Accomplished.
I won't say this story is true. I don't know if it's true. What I do know is that it makes a whole lot more sense than the muddled "terrorist" story commonly accepted regarding the Twin Towers.
This story explains why Vice President Cheney classified the NEPDG report Top Secret, and still refuses to release it.
This story explains why the US almost immediately abandoned the hunt for Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.
This story explains why we invaded and occupied Iraq.
This story explains why 9/11 was not the first in a wave of attacks against the United States, but continues to stand as an isolated incident.
This story explains the haunted look on Bush's face in one of his last interviews in office, when he said, "Don't let it fail. Don't let Iraq fail."
This story explains what former Bush administration officials meant when they admitted without elaboration that the Iraq war was about oil.
This story explains why Obama reneged on Iraq once he took office, and why the next president (be it Palin, Putin, or Joe the Plumber), will keep us in Iraq as well, regardless of what he or she promises the public.
This story may even explain the attempt from 2001 through 2006 to turn the US into a surveillance state with a drastically weakened Bill of Rights. It was never about "terrorists" -- it was about an unruly American public facing an end to their way of life in the coming years. Cheney, in particular, never hesitated to express his belief that democracy was too weak to stand in the modern world -- by which I believe he meant a world without cheap oil. That also explains why the exiting Cheney warned the incoming Obama that the new president would thank him in the years to come for all of the power he and Bush had concentrated in the executive branch.
Most importantly, this story explains how planning, executing, and covering up the WTC attack could be viewed an act of American patriotism. This is of critical importance.
There has been discussion on this site and others regarding how the standard explanation of the WTC collapse doesn't add up. I've been interested in this subject since late September of 2001, to the extent that I built my own (inconclusive) conservation-of-momentum models for the then-popular "pancake theory" of collapse. Personally, I think controlled demolition of the towers is the simplest, most parsimonious physical explanation; that's what the collapse looks like in video clips, and it easily matches the kinetic energy, momentum, pulverization, seismic, and thermal profiles of the collapse and the aftermath. It explains the presence of unburned explosives in the ash that settled over NYC. No one has ever said that demolition was physically impossible.
But there's a major problem with the demolition argument. As a human story, it is not credible. You cannot go far down the demolition road without realizing that the US government had to be involved in at least a massive cover-up after the fact, and likely the planning and execution of the attack as well. This is an obvious and unavoidable sticking point. It is why President Bush ordered the director of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) 9/11 study to not waste time on "crackpot" theories of controlled demolition of the towers. It is why the 9/11 dissidents are viewed as "conspiracy nuts."
Both 9/11 and the Iraq War involved casts of thousands: top tactical and strategic levels of all branches of the military, the CIA, the NSA, the FBI, FEMA, members of Congress, the governor of New York, the mayor of New York City, the NYC police and fire departments, the engineers who performed on-site investigation of the WTC ruins, the salvage companies who carted the rubble away. Only a very few would have known everything, of course, but a lot of these people are very bright and they have a lot of information at their fingertips: many of them are, after all, the people who advise the President. If it's so obvious to us out here that there was a government involvement and cover-up, then these people would have known. Yet they played along and still haven't come out to the public. Why?
I can think of only two possible kinds of motivation that would sustain a conspiracy on this scale. One is religious fervor, which would not seem to apply here. The other is patriotism.
We can point to any number of large-scale conspiracies committed out of a sense of patriotism. The Manhattan Project comes immediately to mind. Operation Valkyrie in Hitler's Germany. The entire Cold War, on both sides. Such major conspiracies based on a sense of patriotism do exist, and the players usually take their secrets to their graves. Most of them sleep well at night, secure in the belief they are serving the greater good.
If you want to make a credible argument for US government involvement in 9/11, you need a patriotic reason: a simple and extremely powerful patriotic reason, easily communicated, easily understood. An argument something like, "If we don't do this, tens of millions of Americans will die and the United States government will collapse. There will be nothing left of our nation, our people, our way of life. The American ideals will be gone forever. Doing this is worth the loss of 10,000 American lives. They are making a heroic sacrifice for the survival of the nation. And you are doing your duty for your country."
That, or something very much like it, has to be the argument, and it must be believed.
This is, of course, exactly what the worst-case Peak Oil scenario promises us. Unlike global warming, there is no controversy about Peak Oil itself, only a question of when it will occur and how harshly the economic consequences will play out. Most projections I've seen range from grim to catastrophic, especially for the United States.
I'd like to make it clear that I don't agree with this argument at all. Destroying the Twin Towers while people were still in them was an atrocity. Using terror to manipulate the public and Congress for five years was an atrocity. Committing atrocities is not patriotic. I also don't agree with the worst-case Peak Oil scenarios. We may have inertial-confinement fusion within the next year or two, something I didn't expect to see in my lifetime. Scientists are learning how chlorophyll uses quantum interference to approach ninety-percent efficiency in conversion of solar energy. As oil prices rise, all kinds of strange technology will come out of the woodwork. I don't think Peak Oil will play out anything like what experts predict, other than the general prediction that we won't be burning oil in another century. That much seems certain: it does not require a diminished society, however.
But none of this is about what I believe. It is about what Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz believed in 2001. It is about what their advisers believed. It is about the real national story that guided the actions of the United States from 2001 through the present.
I don't know the real story. I do know that the muddled mess about terrorists and toothpaste is not the real story.
I invite any of you who have better stories to share them.
Notes:
[1] I considered plastering this with references, but instead I've decided to reference a single book, which is clear, concise, and not too alarmist in its tone. See Confronting Collapse, by Michael C. Ruppert, ISBN 978-1-60358-264-3.
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Comments
Bravo
Thanks!
bravo.
the storytelling animals
There seems to be a common
ccccompassion
share it
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
What is it going to take to finally Wake up the American People?
I concur
Agreed...All of this was so obvious to me shortly after the towers fell...
As a native New Yorker who could see the burning towers from the East Village as I walked to work, I recall stopping on the street and looking with a small group of people that had formed. I only looked for about 30 seconds, then got on a train to work. I acutely remember wishing that by the time I got to work things would be fine. (At this point the towers had not yet fallen). Some part of me knew this was the beginning of something very ugly, and that it would provide carte blance to the shady Bush government should they need it...
When I got to work and heard the news that the towers actually fell, I rushed into an edit room where I was supposed to be working with a few people that day, and one of the first things I heard was an Editor say "We should raze it all...Afghanistan, Iran...". And at that moment all my concerns were solidified...the government had non-critical-thinking people behind whatever the hell they wanted to do...
It's clear that a cabal in our government obsessed with their own interests (whether that be oil, hegemony, domination and control of the Middle East, collusion with other rogue governments, water - or some combo of all of the above) either purposefully engineered this all or watched as others did, so that they could use it to their advantage.
Plain, simple, and painfully obvious since 2001.
So the question is, what do we do? I mean, really...
Not that I've heard
Nor can I imagine how it could be. Peak production is first an empirical observation, and second, a pretty basic feature of economics.
Peak oil doesn't mean we've run out of oil. A relative sent me some internet wisdom that claimed trillions of barrels of oil under the Rocky Mountains. Their math was messed up, but the basic idea was sound -- there's more than enough oil to keep our Hummers humming for a thousand years.
At $100/gallon.
At that price, I'd sell my car and walk everywhere. So would everyone else. The oil is there, but no one can afford to use it as fuel. As a result, there is no demand for oil, so no one bothers to try to keep the pumps going. It's a dead commodity.
Peak oil is inevitable. The only questions are exactly when it happens, and how harsh the consequences will be.
But more to the point, it doesn't matter. Even if Peak Oil turned out to be a nightmare fairy tale with no foundation in reality, what matters is whether it was a fairy tale that Bush and Cheney believed in 2001. If they did, and they chose to act on it, then it doesn't matter whether it is true or not. It's the story that drove the nation.
Human Species Exit Exams
cargocollective.com/pinkelephantcollective
"An Elephant Never Forgets...."
Creative Means to Slay the Demon
cargocollective.com/pinkelephantcollective
"An Elephant Never Forgets...."
I think this a good view of
RE: I think this is a good view
cargocollective.com/pinkelephantcollective
"An Elephant Never Forgets...."
Really?
Motives
The problem with other motivations, such as desire for power and wealth, is that they don't scale well.
I understand that Dick Cheney was forced to set aside his control of his Haliburton stock during his eight years as VP, and when he once again became a private citizen, he was a billionaire. I haven't verified that, but it isn't implausible. You could therefore make the plausible argument that the whole Iraq war was committed to make Richard Cheney personally wealthy, and go on a search for exactly how much money he made, and how. Wealth would be a very powerful motive for him.
But what did Colin Powell get out of it? How did it all play out for Scooter Libby? How big a cut of the pie did the director of the NIST 9/11 study get? Why did they all play along?
Wealth as a motive fades out quickly as you move away from the center, and it leaves a lot of disaffected people in its wake who feel they were passed over. It's a powerful motivator, but it only tends to make sense for very small conspiracies that can hold secrets very close: insider trading schemes, Bernie Maddoff scams, etc. Then when the lid pops off, people go ballistic (e.g. Bernie Maddoff) and the outrage results in legal action.
The same can be said for concentrating power, and as an openly zero-sum game, it makes bitter enemies within the system.
The unique thing about both religious fervor (I'm thinking of the kind of fervor that set off the Children's Crusade or the first Papal Inquisition, not the individual religious piety of most of today's religion) and patriotism is that both create an environment of shared loyalty that rewards even its lowest members with a powerful sense of contributing to the whole and serving a greater good. I can't think of any other motivators that work that way.
I'm certainly open to suggestions, however....
I see your point...
But. Those who get on board out of religious fervor or patriotism usually have another bee in their bonnet that makes them easy to manipulate, misdirect and utilize by those running the show. For instance, in the neo-conservative end of the spectrum of both religion and patriotism where the fervor at present burns hottest, one bee in their bonnet is the unstoppable demographic changes that threaten to relegate them to a shrinking minority. With precise calculation, they've been seduced into believing that those opposing the agendae of the plutocrats are the very 'enemies' responsible for the shrinking of their cherished world and the diminution of their own standing, influence and prerogatives. Insofar as they're energized towards salvaging their perceived status, I think that power, when understood more broadly, scales rather well.
Besides. Just because someone invokes patriotism or religion as their motive, does that necessarily really account for anything? One has to look deeper. Is patriotism worthy of the name when it proudly defends a policy of torture or invasion? Is religion worthy of respect when it eagerly awaits the suffering of all those who don't believe?
Thank you
I agree completely. The author brings up one scenario of countless possibilities for the power hungry madmen responsible to have done such a thing.
Alex Jone's has done incredible work to expose those responsible and their links to historical examples on par with this level of madness (WW1, WW2, Vietname, etc ad infinitum)
Incredibly well stated.
Thank you!
-Nano
cargocollective.com/pinkelephantcollective
"An Elephant Never Forgets...."
for info on Mossad and 9/11, I recommend the following, also....
Superb contribution
A few additional comments
I believe the Truther movement has a rather short-sighted objective of vengeance. You see its stated desire to have a big inquest, followed by a trial, followed by punishment of the guilty. This flows naturally from the whole Western concept of justice-as-vengeance, so they would say they seek “justice” rather than “vengeance.” In our culture, they are the same thing.
There is something called “restorative justice,” and the objective is quite different. Restorative justice focuses not on law and lawbreakers, but on the harm done to the community. The objective is to heal the harm. Sometimes this results in punishment of the guilty; more often it does not, but that isn't important so long as the community finds healing. This is actually the focus of law, as well, but law has congealed into a set of rigid formulas and practices that as often as not do additional harm to the community.
One of the textbook examples of restorative justice was in a town in Pennsylvania, I believe, where an old, run-down wooden footbridge was burned as a teen-age prank. This footbridge was, in a sense, the Twin Towers of the small town, and its loss to a senseless act of arson caused horrible damage to the community. Without law, the two boys responsible would probably have been lynched, or disfigured for life by some cruel and unusual punishment. Under the rules of legal vengeance, they should have been sent to jail and their families fined into bankruptcy for their criminal mischief. Instead, the community decided to use restorative practices. The outcome was that the two boys came to fully understand the magnitude of what they had done. Rather than going to jail, they were simply let go. They raised the money to rebuild the bridge, were principals in its reconstruction, and as they became adults, founded a preservation society to make sure the bridge would never again fall into the state of disrepair that had tempted them, as young boys, to view it as trash that needed to be burned. Few cases are this dramatic, but it illustrates clearly the difference in objective, approach, and outcome.
Vengeance against the perpetrators of 9/11 would bring bitter closure to an open wound, which would be better than nothing. I want more.
The first step toward national healing is to restore sanity to the narrative. As a sane narrative, it does not need to explain everything, but it needs to elucidate plausible motives for the principal actors. In dealing with human motives, one rule applies pretty universally: no one is ever the villain in their own script. If you can't see how a person is the misunderstood hero in their own script, then you don't understand their motives.
For eight years, I viewed Cheney and Bush as a bald Doctor Strangelove and his evil, smirking sidekick. This is actually the same narrative as the Terrorists-and-Toothpaste, or the Evil Islamic Empire, or the Jewish Plot, or the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. At the top is some impenetrable Evil that somehow infects everyone it touches, perhaps through fear, or religion, or brainwashing, or some kind of ineffable moral corruption. Whatever Cheney and Bush were up to, it was a psychopathy beyond my understanding, within a hidden network of evil psychopaths.
All such narratives cast us as helpless victims of evil, to be used, enslaved, or exterminated. They are not sane narratives if taken seriously, and cannot possibly lead to healing.
I've offered one narrative that I think is at least sane. I repeat that I don't know if it's true, but whatever the truth turns out to be, it will involve a sane narrative; 9/11 did happen, and it was planned and executed by real people with real motives.
The second step in healing is deciding what harm has been done. Obviously, we have the dead: here and in Iraq. But 9/11 and Iraq go very much deeper than this. Together they have broken our national will and identity.
I have asked myself many times, with no good answer: If Bush and Cheney actually saved the United States by giving us another ten, or twenty, or thirty years of cheap oil, what did they save? We are the nation that reacted to an alleged assault on our free society by destroying our freedoms. We are the nation that perpetrated Abu Ghraib and sent home snapshots for the family album. We are the nation that invaded Iraq on a transparent pretext, and even a president-elect didn't know the real reason until a hundred days into his term. It's quite possible that the United States government has always been this contemptible and corrupt, but in the past it always left American citizens with something to be proud of. Both 9/11 and Iraq crossed a line. They harmed our national identity and stole our future.
The third step is deciding what is needed to heal the damage that was caused. This is where things get interesting.
It's very likely that part of the healing will involve turning Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, and the rest of that lot over to the Hague for trial. I'm skeptical that enough legal evidence could be amassed to make charges stick to any individual. But such punitive justice is merely preliminary, a side-note.
The central issue is the oil itself. Peak oil is here. The US has control of the oil in Iraq. We have taken responsibility for it. This means that we have a responsibility to manage it well, not just for ourselves, but for the world. The biggest part of our healing as a nation will involve turning this national disgrace and international crime into something worthwhile for the world. We need to make some changes in national awareness and policy soon, if there is to be any hope of this.
My grown boys always ask me, “Where are the flying cars?” It's a good question, if sad. Where are the flying cars? The moon bases, the warp drives, and the “Earl Gray, hot,” produced by a replicator? The United States has always represented hope for the future, not just here, but throughout the world. Both 9/11 and the Iraq War represent a kind of thuggery that has answered hope with brutality.
Vengeance isn't enough for me. I want to be able to tell my boys, “The flying cars are coming. Just wait and see.”
Neways
What of the future?
The US govt. is preparing for a grass-roots 9/11 backlash. Once a tipping point is reached of citizens who find the official story a cover up, and who begin—as a consequence—to believe that its own government was culpable in the deaths of so many of its fellow citizens, a flood gate will open; there will be a revolution, and true Americans—fiercely independent, and armed to the teeth—will fight back.
It will be a horribly bloody battle and will forever change the psyche of human kind. While the type of rumination carried on here is in preparation for such a tipping point, I think that more attention should be focused on the future effects of the awakening of the American public.
What kind of human will emerge from such an Armageddon as this?
One possible outcome
I've worried about this. It could happen that way. I think it unlikely.
First, the American people aren't going to rebel against the government over an atrocity committed by the Bush administration nearly a decade ago. They might revolt -- as the farmers almost did in FDR's day -- over personal hardship as Peak Oil plays out. They might revolt because the government is sitting on the oil in Iraq and isn't using it to keep gas prices low (which is exactly what the government needs to do: allow gas prices to slowly rise, so that alternate technologies can begin to compete -- personally, I think the government will cave in and keep gas prices low until we hit a crisis and see gas prices double, triple, or increase tenfold overnight, which will destroy everything.)
Second, Republicans always blame the Democrats (I've watched this in my family). They (my family) were still complaining about Clinton in the 2007 housing collapse. They think the rise in oil prices is caused by environmentalists. If the government did exactly what I've outlined here, and if it were fully exposed by Fox News (imagine such a thing!), it would be Obama's fault. They'd "revolt" by voting for Palin come 2012.
Third, that is one end that punitive justice serves, to slake blood-lust. If matters came to potential revolution (very unlikely, in my mind), Bush and Cheney would go to the Hague. That would take most of the wind out of the revolt.
Vengeance??
cargocollective.com/pinkelephantcollective
"An Elephant Never Forgets...."
Please clarify
Perhaps my turn of phrase was inflammatory. If so, I apologize.
Let me ask this: what happens after justice? Presume that facts are marshalled, the guilty are identified, tried, convicted and sentenced (or acquitted).
Is that enough? If not, what happens next?
Question ?
Is there a reason that the exchange between Shaw and another poster has been removed ?
Was the removal over the fact that Shaw believes Israel is directly involved/responsible.
I didn't look at his link, but the removal is glaring.
Glaring but not surprising
Sigh.
Charles Shaw
Author - Exile Nation
Answer ?
Hi cdcaleo... Since I was participating that exchange, I noticed that the entire thread was gone as well. Its removal was indeed puzzling, and I looked into it. Nothing had been flagged as inappropriate, and there had been no spam, but it's also the case that, on this system, if the initial commenter who started the thread deletes their post then it automatically takes out all the replies too. This is a possible explanation.
So, no, it had nothing to do with anybody's beliefs.
Come to think of it, Charles, didn't you start the thread?
Tony V
www.tonyvigorito.com
Curious
I'm relatively new to this site, so I'm not familiar with its editorial policies.
I assumed the thread was clobbered by the editorial staff for public brawling. You both started with some interesting points, but then it got personal and sarcastic, and I stopped reading. I was just about to ask (politely) that you take it outside and voluntarily remove your posts and repost your essential ideas more briefly. Before I had a chance to post, however, the whole thread was gone.
Charles, did you pull your original post? I'm curious.
To summarize (very briefly): Charles had posted a link to a fellow named Bollyn, whom Charles finds credible and interesting; Bollyn's claims implicate Israel in the 9/11 and Iraq scenario. Tony V stated that Bollyn appeared to be working from an anti-Semitic agenda, and finds him neither credible nor interesting. The volume went up from there. Is that a fair one-paragraph summary, gents?
I had a few thoughts of my own, which I will post separately.
impermanence
Hi Themon.
I feel bad that particular comments thread devolved into what increasingly had the whiff of a prick waving contest. Apologies for my part in that. I liked your article, your writing style, and your studied avoidance of certainty. I found the dialogue very stimulating and thought-provoking initially, then, not so much. However the thread vanished, that event in itself was a satisfying meditation on impermanence, and how this human world is ultimately nothing more than the echo of a passing shadow.
And Charles, it's clear that we stimulate one another. I hope you know I love you like a brother.
Tony V
www.tonyvigorito.com
Well...
I didn't delete it that I know of. But this isn't the first time its happened.
To reiterate what I said, I found that Christopher Bollyn's theory and those of a couple others who built upon his work seemed to me to be the most detailed and insightful analysis of 9/11 yet provided by anyone. It uncovered scores of heretofore hidden connections between the Israeli Mossad and Mossad front companies, private Israeli business interests, American Neocons, and the 9/11 attacks. It highlighted how the Mossad's fingerprints are all over 9/11, but only Bollyn so far has had the balls/brains/bullheadedness to investigate Israel, a completely taboo subject to most people. It has resulted in his life being turned upside down, and in response he has fled the country. He is not the only person to do so under the same conditions.
Regardless of Bollyn's specific claims, in any fair investigation, Israel would have been called forth to explain
how they got their fingerprints all over the 9/11 attacks. But not here in America. It is forbidden to criticize Israel,
much less imply that maybe they aren't really the allies we are told
they are. What other nation could get away with having 34
high ranking members of the President's administration with either dual
Israeli-American citizenship or strong ties to Israel like the Bush
Administration did? It really makes ya think (or not) who's controlling
who. When we ask "cui bono" we see Israel was the #1 beneficiary of our
post-9/11 foreign policy. >:0/
I believed Bollyn was on to something because he has graduate degrees studying the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and has spent his entire journalist career investigating and writing about this conflict. Since he has been largely critical of Israel, he has been what I feel is unfairly maligned as an Anti-Semite for his work, a common tactic used against Israel's critics.
Tony--without reading Bollyn's work and with only a percursory glance at his website--decided Bollyn is a "White Supremacist" and dismissed him outright without even looking at the evidence he gathered. But there is absolutely nothing to suggest Bollyn is a real Anti-Semite, much less a "White Supremacist."
Even if Bollyn never existed, the Israeli connection to 9/11 would still exist, there are multiple sources available on it, and plenty of high ranking officials who believe 9/11 was a Mossad operation, or at the very least, a rogue CIA/Mossad/Neocon junta, which began with the Neocons and the Likkud seizing power in 2000, and culminated with the aborted attack on Iran in 2008. In between was the Iraq War, the neutralization of Syria, the Lebanon War, the Gaza "war", the Israeli "security wall" and the continued slow annexation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
I challenged anyone to offer up one positive benefit of our so called alliance with Israel. To date I have received no response.
In my opinion, the high-volume knee-jerk emotional responses of Israel's defenders only serves to scare off legitimate inquiry into Israel's role in the 9/11 attacks and the consequences of our alliance with Israel. These should be looked at objectively like any other foreign policy issue. Instead, it has been subsumed by the shrill shreiks of "Anti-Semitism!", taking what is a poiitical issue and disingenuously making it a racial one. This is the worst kind of demagogeury that has been used to silence Israel's critics since the formation of the State of Israel. But not any longer. The Emperor truly has no clothes on this one, and the people are beginning to shriek, "Naked!!"
Charles Shaw
Author - Exile Nation
conspiracy
Charles, have you ever considered the bullying tactics you use to silence anyone who disagrees with you? Because I have dared participate in this discussion, you have called me lazy, mentally ill, squawky, shrill, and someone who just likes to hear themselves talk. You don't address the questions I raise, but instead you seek to characterize me in a straw man fashion that is based either on your own presumptions or on projections of your shadow self. In the vanished thread, you continually tried to forbid me from responding to you. When I disobeyed you, curiously, the entire thread disappeared.
Would you like me to post the email exchange between myself and the moderator of RS forums, wherein I was assured that nothing had been removed by them and it was explained that when the original commenter deletes his comment then the entire thread is removed as well?
In any event, by way of yawning reiteration, let me emphasize again: Criticims of Israel is not anti-Semitic, so stop pretending that's what this is about. On the other hand, Bollyn characterizes Zionist overlords with false quotations, decontextualized news stories, indignant menorahs, ahistorical references, and hideous photos. Why should we pollute our minds with anything from a man who blames Jews for everything from the bankruptcy of GM to the Obama administration?
Whatever sense Bollyn may make, a cursory glance through his website reveals that he is operating from a place of bigotry. I'm flabbergasted that you do not see this, Charles. The credibility of a witness is perfectly relevant in evaluating their point of view.
I know that you are very passionate, Charles, and that's something I admire about you, but let me offer you some unsolicited advice: Beware of accepting accounts based on retrospective interpretation; it is equivalent to backtracking with a bulldozer. It is easy for someone to create a compelling story when they start with their own biases, underline and/or invent facts to support those biases, and ignore facts that contradict those biases. A proper investigation, on the other hand, allows the story to emerge from the facts. This is not what Bollyn has done.
Themon's article was excellent exactly because he avoided that kind of audacity in pretending to know for certain what happened. And Themon, I apologize once again for this exhausting diversion.
Tony V
www.tonyvigorito.com
Curious
I guess I don't understand why Israel would not be involved, if the US government was involved.
It seems unlikely to me that the President would use US soldiers to set things up. He'd call a guy who knows a guy. Who's going to be on that short list? Mossad will be near the top. US-allied, discreet, efficient. They probably owe the US a few favors (and vice versa). I don't think you'd need any true "rogues" involved. There were, for instance, the leaked minutes of the Downing Street meeting in London regarding the Iraq War, and the top British leaders simply accepted that "The US is going forward with the Iraq invasion, and they want us to help craft the legal basis for the invasion." I can see a very similar meeting held in Mossad HQ regarding 9/11, accepted with a similar fatalism. If they were ever discovered, they would officially be "rogues," of course.
I guess Mossad involvement would be surprising if you start from the official story, that this was done by -- what was it again? Al Queda? Iraq? Some South African diplomat with a really cute assistant and a big fishtank in his office?
If you start from the White House and work down, an Israeli involvement seems obvious. It's like asking how Mercutio got involved in Romeo's street fight.
Bravo
That is of course the other side of the Israel theory, which (of course) must be considered objectively along with the others, and for which there is considerable evidence. Nice, Themon. >:0)
Charles Shaw
Author - Exile Nation
If real life were more like the Internet
Glad to have you back, Charles. I read a comic yesterday, Tom the Dancing Bug, that satirized the unfortunate tendencies of this communication medium. I think you'll appreciate it:
http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this_modern_world/2010/04/12/t...
Tony V
www.tonyvigorito.com
chaos
As I said in the vanished thread, there's a conversation to be had about 9-11, perhaps Israel is relevant, but including a bigot like Bollyn in the conversation distracts, degrades, and discredits the entire discourse. Unless disinformation is the goal, why hyperlink to an ugly agenda? Ignoring him and the desperations of ad hominem argumentation, this is a great dialogue.
Themon, despite your own South African sarcasm for which you were quick to castigate Charles and myself, I find your notions interesting. (And what was that, anyway, an allusion to Lethal Weapon 2?)
Nonetheless, I remain skeptical of retrospective interpretation and cui bono logic--but don't panic! That's probably just the archetype I've been called to inhabit in this conversation. If we all agreed, after all, there would be nothing to talk about and noboby would learn anything. In any event, using cui bono logic, we could argue that since the U.S. emerged as an industrial and military superpower after World War II, then the U.S. must have been behind the development of the Axis Powers. I don't think that's likely, and besides, it's highly questionable that becoming quagmired in two wars with a cratering economy can be seen as a beneficial outcome for the U.S., any more than flagging U.S. support for Israel and unbearable tensions in the Middle East can be seen as a beneficial outcome for Israel.
Is al Quaeda involvement really absurd when it's understood in the context of CIA training and blowback? Cui bono? The U.S. has made itself an easy target for any state that wishes to surreptitiously weaken it. Recollect that when the Soviets were in Afghanistan, the U.S. surreptitiously funded and trained al Quaeda precisely in order to weaken the U.S.S.R. And it worked. The Soviet Union collapsed shortly after they withdrew. In military science, the only way to attack a military superpower and avoid mutually assured destruction is surreptitiously and statelessly.
At the end of the day, I think conspiratorial speculation can be interesting as long as it doesn't distract us from compelling the present, but I don't think it begins to capture the true terror of the human situation: That history is absolutely emergent, and nobody is in control of this juggernaut that's barrelling down the shuddering tracks of history. There are doubtless and countless conspiracies, but they are fools to think they're in control of anything, for history is not without a sense of irony.
Or, as Robert Anton Wilson once wrote: "The imposition of order equals the escalation of chaos."
Tony V
www.tonyvigorito.com
"In any event, using cui
"In any event, using cui bono logic, we could argue that since the U.S. emerged as an industrial and military superpower after World War II, then the U.S. must have been behind the development of the Axis Powers."
Well if you follow the money, Hitler got a lot of funding from major investment houses in New York and London.
Among the principals involved, Prescott Bush, grandfather of W. Among Prescott's many accomplishments, he was instrumental in attempting to initiate a fascist coup in America in the 1930s.
History: it's never as simple as you expect it to be. Until you come to terms with the fact that most of what you know (most of the mythologized narrative you've learned to associate with history) is 'victor's history' and as a result, numerous important details have been left out (like, Who paid for the wars?), and so much of what you know is not, in fact, so.
The rEvoLution is Within
Love....
Idealism
cargocollective.com/pinkelephantcollective
"An Elephant Never Forgets...."
I agree...
And would add that I understand the sincere need of peaceful people to look for a path towards forgiveness. That being said, I also find it terribly naive. Now if you as an individual need to forgive someone who has wronged you personally, that is your right to do so. But when it comes to serious crimes committed against whole nations, justice and punishment is necessary.
I have been blasted on this sight before for saying some of this, but there seems to be a radical disconnect in pacifist and creative communities in regards to who they are dealing with when it comes to arch villians. Unfortunately, the reality of the matter is that there are people ( mostly men ) who live and walk among us who are predatory sociopaths. Now you can engage in all the dialectical hair splitting you'd like, but these people MUST be dealt with. Violent sociopaths don't respond to intellectual debate or reasoned analysis.
The individuals who engage in organized crime as well as the upper echelons of big government are usually A-type personalities with unusually high testosterone. They are biologically driven towards confontation, violence and emotional overreaction. Men like this have been running the Earth for several thousand years. Yes, there are significant exceptions to this generalization. But as far as industrial civilization goes, these dudes run the show.
Many studies have been done on the most violent offenders in the American penal system. And without exception they are physically tough individuals with high testosterone. I'm not taliking about the bulk of the current prison population. Non violent drug offenses by poor blacks and whites is not who I'm referring to. I'm talking about heavywheight felons.
I know it is very hard for peace minded people to imagine that there are humans who can't be reasoned with. I know pacifistic people believe if you could just get thespredatory individuals to sit down and listen to your reasoned anaysis, or take up meditation, or adopt a vegan diet, then we could put all this violence behind us. Sorry folks, it doesn't work that way.
And in dispensing real justice, you do not have to become what you despise. Self defense in the name of community and freedom and egalitarian values is a right that all of us should own.
As long as peace minded people refuse to acknowledge that there are humans whose behavior is so monstrous that only harsh and swift penalties be meted out in response, then the peace loving community isn't going to find much peace.
Peace
I believe that giving the people that caused the 9/11 terrorist attacks swift punishment and justice would only hinder us as a people more. Once we give them there plate of "justice" what then? What do we do once we execute them, lock them up in prison or bash them for the monstrous event that took place. Punishing them is only giving the people similar to these monsters more power.
By forgiving them we take all of their power away. What they have done is done, and now it is their choice whether to align themselves with the people and forgive themselves, or keep going on their own path of destruction. It is like Gandhi stated, " We should meet abuse by forbearance. Human nature is so constituted that if we take absolutely no notice of anger or abuse, the person indulging it it will soon weary of it and stop". A revolution to date will accomplish nothing if it has any involvement with violence, punishment or destruction. If we live by these points, we will never evolve to anything, but follow the same path that has been followed by all the revolutions in history.
Peace will never be found if you are searching for it with violence.
accountability
A person must be accountable for their actions. The universe pays all debts one way or another.
Hope I'm not being too...
Dear Tjbeck
Sorry guys...
Dear cdcaleo
what a heck is goin on?
Found the NEDPG report
It didn't take an FOI to find the NEDPG report, I googled it:
http://wtrg.com/EnergyReport/National-Energy-Policy.pdf
Might not be there long now. I didn't read it (any more than I read the NIST report ... why?) Hope that helps.
There's more on the subject in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Task_Force
It says that the names of the Task Force members were reported in WaPo in 2007. All cronies.
One thought: of course the US will survive peak oil. We've only been consuming it for a century. We won't have to go back to those times either. Technology has come a long, long ways, and there are many energy alternatives, conservation measures and a much better-educated populace that has been pretty much idling for a couple of decades -- a lot of us would be eager to get to work rebuilding -- and getting it -right- this time.
Thank you
Thank you for looking this up. It's funny (and embarrassing) that with all the FOI fuss, I never even thought to Google for the report itself.
It's a long report -- I have only had time to skim it -- but pretty innocuous. It reads a lot like a National Geographic article. There's clearly no smoking gun in it, no mention of peak oil (though it does mention a natural gas peak in US production in 2015), and 'Iraq' appears only three times, once in a pie chart. My overall impression is that it's pretty lightweight.
However, the Wiki link you provided was interesting. From one of the 2005 references it cites (http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/8-secrets-of-cheneys...):
"Documents turned over in the summer of 2003 by the Commerce Department as a result of the Sierra Club’s and Judicial Watch’s Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force, contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as two charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” The documents, dated March 2001, also feature maps of Saudi Arabian and United Arab Emirates oilfields, pipelines, refineries and tanker terminals. There are supporting charts with details of the major oil and gas development projects in each country that provide information on the project’s costs, capacity, oil company and status or completion date."
So my comments about the NEPDG report should all be replaced by more accurate statements about the Energy Task Force internal documents. I will need to do some research so I can update the article and (hopefully) get the details right this time.
I agree with you on surviving peak oil. I think the main thing to take from the peak oil doomsayers is that we can take two very different routes into the post-oil economy: the conscious way, or the dragged-kicking-and-screaming-in-denial way. I'd like to think the former will work out to be a lot easier on people.