Is There Anybody Out There?
This weekend, Barcelona is host to the European Exopolitics Summit, featuring leading speakers and theorists on the UFO phenomena and extraterrestrial communication, including Steven Greer, Brian Leary, Stephen Bassett, and many more. The presentations for the conference are being streamed live, and also archived here: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1867009
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I have just started watching the presentations, and they are fascinating. Organizers describe the Barcelona summit as “an event that will mark a milestone in Spain and will set a precedent in Europe. It will be the occasion in which the leaders and proponents of disclosure of the extraterrestrial presence by all of the world's governments, European as well as the U.S., will meet in a historic summit in Barcelona.” This conference could be an important one, as it is held at a time of growing worldwide interest in the UFO and ET phenomenon.
Strange data continues to accumulate. Just a few days ago, in a C-SPAN interview, former NASA astronaut Buzz Aldrin revealed the existence of a monolith on Phobus, one of the moons of Mars. Is this part of an orchestrated project to release information to the public over time, or an accidental disclosure?
- 7-25-09
- Daniel Pinchbeck's blog
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Shock number one will be
my thoughts exactly
my thoughts exactly
Image of what Buzz is talking about
Very curious such a statement would come from Buzz, who has been a stone cold denier of alien intelligence.
Did a web search to see what else is out there on this. Here is an image, quite stunning actually.
I normally run from the Richard Hogland crowd, but this is definitely interesting for sure. It holds both angles and symmetry
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread485504/pg1
The image looks really fake
RE: fake image
It was totally my own
skeptical here too regarding
Buzz statement
I watched his statement & he, as i recall, chalks it up to god or nature basically. meaning another 'face on mars' that is there but not by intelligent design.
He was cheerleading for space exploration & having some fun at the same time, thats all, imo.
got my attention though...
Disclosure?
Keep an eye on http://www.projectcamelot.org/ They say that they have some very interesting disclosure info about Mars and secret technology. One of the people involved 'Henry Deacon' claims to have been on Mars as part of the secret space program.
"Only the puny secrets need protecting. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity."
Marshall McLuhan
Greer at Exopolitics Conf
A link to a talk given by Dr. Steven Greer a couple of days ago in Barcelona :
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1874942
Please click the link below to view it.
http://evolutionaryastrology.podOmatic.com/entry/2009-07-21T13_03_20-07_... "Will the transformation."-Rilke
Wow...
Thanks Daniel - Another vote to check out Dr. Greer's talk. Mindblowing... his last statement, especially. More and more, it feels to me like this is what it's coming down to, and we really need to be thinking hard about how we are going to pull it off.
Shadow discrepancy in image
Galactic Federation
The goal- I believe- after people and governments realize that aliens are real- is to ally with the Galactic Federation in order to fight the Orion Empire which supports the New World Order.
ALLY PERSONALLY AND COLLECTIVELY WITH THE GALACTIC FEDERATION TO REWIRE GLOBAL POLITICS.
Ovarian Out, Joan of Art
"They are not what they claim to be"
www.metatech.org/Art_Bell_Area_51_aliens_audio_tape.html
Freaks me out without fail.
Stargates
I don't know what to think of this...
"An ancestral race of bird beings that came from the stars to become the Egyptians...?"
http://www.themetaarts.com/2008march/hankwesselman.html
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Bird Beings
very interesting article--
the Egyptians had many Bird Gods, Thoth, Horus, Maat, Geb, Phoenix..to name some..
These entities were stellar beings, coming from many different Star systems.. and carried the Blood of the Stars.
They were encouraged to have relationships with the ancients because they roamed the stars which were Gods to the Egyptians.
I have heard other stories of these beings materializing in the Great Pyramid.
"come gather round this conscious fire...children of the Earth....and listen to the spirits of the Stars"....
Radical Novelty as "Alien"
Thanks, Five
I feel that Reality is way beyond our wildest scifi novels.....years ago I had a dream where a "wise old man" figure, irradiating bliss, took out his human mask (white bearded SantaClaus type) and showed his real face: An alien face!
I feel resonance with the theory of jungian/chaos theory expert Robin Robertson, that our future development in supramental consciousness (Sri Aurobindo) is so alien to us ( "Radical Novelty") that we can only imagine it with alien imagery
"The great difficulty I have is describing the enormity of what is being birthed. The true focus of this creative process is not individuals but all humanity. It is actually trying to reawaken the entire species. What is emerging is a consciousness of unprecedented proportions, the entire human species integrated into a unified field of awareness. The species reconnected with its Fundamental Nature. Our thoughts tuned to Source Consciousness. Having moved beyond linear time into "deep time," I experienced this both as a projected destiny and also as a realized actuality. It was simultaneously something to be accomplished and something already accomplished. This quantum jump in our evolutionary status precipitated a wholesale reorganization of global culture. It signaled a turning point that would forever divide the human story into the before and after of THE GREAT AWAKENING." page 220
Dark Night, Early Dawn, Christopher Bache.
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Signet of Atlantis
this information was from the book:
Signet of Atlantis- written by Barbara Hand Clow- a native american shaman, mayan elder.. and a very respected astrologer/astronomer.
She has roamed the pyramids of Meso-America, Egypt, Mexico, and has written several great books, which I have read many times. Her books are very 'otherwordly'. ..
In 1997 after the X-files
In 1997 after the X-files show ended my sister said -- hey there's those lights I've seen in Taos and north of here (the St. Croix river valley between Minnesota and Wisconsin). We both went outside and she got bored but I watched these lights -- each a different color -- doing impossible maneuvers on the horizon: Not headlights, not helicopter, not a tower light, not a plane. Suddenly I see a craft headed towards me from the lights -- from the horizon. Slowly this larger equilateral triangle (no fuselage -- "flat") -- buzzed out from the forest beyond my neighbors. It was a couple "blocks" away and slowly headed right towards our yard. It went right over the hill on the north side and then right over the tree on the north side. It was bigger than the crown of this huge old oak tree but so close and so slow I could have hit it with a rock.
I didn't dare take my eyes off this big black equilateral "flat" triangle (no fuselage) -- it was making a humming electrical motor noise. I didn't want any "missing time" or abduction experience. Slowly it continued over our garage and off into the valley -- this was the summer of 1997, just after dark. There were lights on each corner of the triangle -- similar to the lights I had seen on the horizon: green, red, white. Since I had no witnesses I thought I can't do anything with this but I knew it was MILITARY.
My mom ran the local legal newspaper and one of the news journalists brought me her three-ring binder of local articles from the 1970s: A UFO flap had occurred -- multiple sightings with photos on the papers. Strange orbs -- and even a cattle mutilation spree that scared one rancher off his land. The local journalist then said that this was a "military flight test corridor." Then after the internet took off I was reading rense.com and discovered the SAME sighting - equilateral black triangle -- no fuselage -- slow, humming noise -- low flight. I was amazed -- it was exactly the same sighting.
So then I did research. Turns out this big black triangle was clocked doing 1800 mph by the U.N. in Belgium. Also the big black triangle was featured in an X files show (which I never saw). Nick Redfern documents a big black triangle sighting soon after WWII!! http://ufomystic.com is his blog with Greg Bishop. Both have published books detailed military disinformation to promote the "alien agenda."
Meanwhile the public is bombarded with the "alien agenda" disinformation. When one top UFO researcher was on coasttocoast recently I emailed him and he said his next book would detail how the big black triangles are indeed a new secret military craft. There's been lots of speculation about how these craft use "antigravity" technology. Paul LaViolette has a new book on the subject which I haven't read yet. The big black triangles are REAL and spooky to be sure -- "flat" -- no fuselage. Silent slow yet can take off to superfast speed. MN MUFON documented several similar sightings in my area in the same time period (late 1990s) and one (Hastings) also had the same superfast acceleration like those clocked in Belgium.
Russian Navy UFO Files Released
According to (state owned?) Russia Today:
http://tiny.cc/wIimG
Recent developments in southern England
1. On July 19, our e.t. friends drew an easy-to-understand picture at Liddington Castle, that correctly predicted a bright aurora during the solar eclipse of July 22, 2009 three days later: see www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/badbury/articles.html or www.earthfiles.com.
2. On July 22, they drew a clear and explicit symbol for hyper-dimensional physics as discussed by Nassim Haramein: see www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/Woodborough/comments.html.
3. Andrew Pyrka has just obtained distant but convincing photographs of several e.t. visitors on the ground at the Starfish or Tzolkin Lunar Calendar: see www.cropcirclewisdom.com/martinsellufo/martinsellufo.html or www.cropcirclewisdom.com/ogdgallops/ogdgallops.html.
Okay, guys, get with it!
RC will be in Compton Bassett from August 3 to 14.
"The past is prelude"
Doctor multiWho...?
http://www.organelle.org/organelle/sadasah.html
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
I came across this article
I came across this article linked from dailygrail.com.
http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-US-Intelligence-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Astronauts-admirals-generals-discuss-UFO-coverup
I liked this quote - 'This raises serious questions. If these respected government officials are lying, why? What purpose would it serve to open themselves to ridicule with UFO claims? If it is a conspiracy to get us to believe in UFOs, what's the purpose of that? And if they are deluded, we may have a serious mass delusion spreading in government that needs to be addressed.'
We have disguised ourselves as an alien invasion.
I find the whole UFO/alien phenomenon fascinating for the way it challenges our basic assumptions about reality and tests our BS detectors. Whatever is going on it is not what it seems. I agree with Terence Mckenna that "they" have disguised themselves as an alien invasion so as not to alarm us about what is really going on. I think the truth is stranger than we can suppose.
Mckenna on UFOs
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3163231789026536985&ei=7f5ySu_2IY7UrQKpgKX6Dg&q=mckenna+ufo
I dont know about Greer....
Sorry, but all that conspiratorial name-dropping that he does...watching him, my Bullshit Detector went off so loud I couldnt ignore it.
The *free-energy* field is full of the oh-so-convenient - "we had proof but the Secret Gov took it" and "we had wealthy backers all lined up but they backed out" - excuses. Sorry, but something just doesnt feel right
Re: Project Camelot
They are *working* with Wingmakers?! - this was considered to be an Internet fraud and hoax years ago, along with the Montauk Project (which was based upon another fraud - The Philadelphia Experiment,see Vallee) which is also mentioned on their site.
Montauk, along with other *time-travel* narratives like Incunabula and Ong's Hat were long ago regarded as hoaxes - I remember *meeting* Alexandra “Chica” Bruce online - who was involved in these stories and wrote one of the Montauk books - and warning her to get away from these people after I had an online exchange with *Peter Moon*, co-author of the Montauk Project books (before I realized that she couldnt 'cause she needed the money). To then see that they take David Icke at face value (there is overlap here: Stewart Swerdlow, another Montauk Project author, and Chica, jumped on the Reptilian bandwagon and merged it with the Montauk Project story) - is rather disconcerting. Underground alien bases, (in Dulce) time travel, Mars, Aleister Crowley, mind control, the Illuminati and Montauk and etc., ALL of this stuff was floating around the Internet 10 years ago, perpetrated for profit by a very questionable cast of characters: Al Bielek, *Peter Moon* aka Vince Barbarick (who heads Sky Books, the company that puts out the Montauk books, and who is ex-Scientology), Preston Nichols, Swerdlow. Come to think of it, I don’t think the whole Majestic-12 stuff has a lot of credibility, or, some of the people mentioned by Brian O’Leary, like Tom Beardon, Randall Hill and Hutchison. As to why these things are perpetrated is open to question but money, psychological delusion and disinformation come to mind. For background on the Philadelphia Experiment, see Vallee’s “Anatomy of a Hoax”: http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_08_1_vallee.pdf On Majestic and the infamous Bill Moore: http://obscurantist.com/oma/moore-william/ http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg31147.html http://www.philipcoppens.com/bennewitz.html For further background on UFO’s and Grand Conspiracy Theories, see the mysterious Val Valerian (co-author of the Matrix series) aka John Grace. This whole field is riddled with questionable characters: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message315486/pg1 Here is a link to Bruce’s book on Amazon - I wrote the review under the pseudonym “Illuminati” http://www.amazon.com/Philadelphia-Experiment-Murder-Parallel-Universes/... Something on Greer http://www.ufowatchdog.com/greer_seti.html See UFO Hall of Shame. Now I dont know for sure what is going on, but I used to watch this field in the late 90's, and there is a lot of crap and disinfo mixed in with valid info.
Interesting links! I agree
Interesting links! I agree there is a huge amount of disinfo, black magic, and charlatan profiteering hovering around the whole topic of ufo's/aliens -- which is part of what makes it so interesting, to me.
The uncomfortable ambiguity creates a shadowy liminal zone, a spooky arena, into which all sorts of players have beamed themselves. A perfectly haunted fairy wood for questing Grail seekers.
Mixed Feelings
I like that the UFO phenomenon is getting more attention. But the use of the word exopolitics has me a little concerned. As does the use of the word extra-terrestrial.
'Exo', meaning 'outer' and extra-terrestrial imply that the UFO phenomenon can be explained by the ETH, the 'extra-terrestrial hypothesis'. It can't. Not in so far as 'extra-terrestrials' is meant as biological races that evolved on other planets, developed civilization and interstellar travel, and found us here on Earth or seeded us here.
The whole 'extra-terrestrial from another planet' thing is a modern mythology that evolved around root phenomena. The UFO phenomenon isn't 'outer'...isn't 'out there' because psychic phenomena isn't 'out there'.
The UFO phenomenon is a manifestation of our collective unconscious psychic ability. Just as the old Fairy phenomenon was. Same thing, different age.
There IS no 'outer', the subject/object distinction is an illusion. MAYA. All the gods, aliens, angels, demons, heavens and hells are inside of us. They are magnified and projected psychic dreams, they are manifestations of the collective unconscious in symbolic form. Living myths. So what we need is esopolitics.
Here is a great article on UFOs by Dean Radin
http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/Webpages/Shift-EnduringEnigmaOfUFO....
An alien golf cart in the sky
Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty, a Sanskrit scholar from the University of Chicago:
Interestingly, she looked at the root meaning of the Sanskrit word, maya, and discovered that it could best be translated as "transformation". She writes, "To say that the universe is an illusion (maya) is not to say that it is unreal; it is to say, instead, that it is not what it seems to be, that it is something constantly being made."
From the nondual tantric view:
"The deities/wisdom beings are aspects of existence in its pure form, they are the faces of our own realized mind and they are the voice of the universe speaking to itself as it relates to our individual energies, minds and forms. They exist both on the inner and other dimension and yet, like all things, their existence is basically shunya, transparent open space."
http://www.kalima.org/tantra-plainly-put.php
Or as the nondual gnostic William Blake (by the way, there is growing scholarly evidence of the roots of Dzogchen in Gnostic/ Iranian Mysteries) said:
"Thus men forgot that All deities reside in the human breast."
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/blake_ma.html
And yes, my sister and me had an "encounter of the third kind with the unkown" when I was 14 and her 9 (a humanoid silhouette, 'something with lights')- and the newspapers telling of numerous sightings two days after...
I have tried to "integrate" this experience in my life in the way Bradford Keeney, in a superb cybernetic style, explains:
"The royal road of cognitive punctuation takes us to many realities. Since we are making choices for how we distinguish and construct, we are ultimately responsible for what/how we see. This is a level of ethics that hasn't been fully appreciated by partially or fully committed naive realists.
Let's consider quirky punctuations like "close encounters with aliens," "past-life memories," "spirit guides," "apparitions," "energy readings," "channeling," "talking with the dead," and the whole of new age speak. First of all, I don't like any of these distinctions, indications, or punctuations because they imply we know something about experiences that we don't know much, if anything, about. This comic-book-like-discourse gives false concreteness to extraordinary mysteries. Furthermore, I believe these light- weight framings trivialize and even disrespect the complex wonder of unknowable experience.
For example, I'd rather say nothing more than, "Last night I experienced a mysterious luminosity." However, if someone subsequently asks whether it flew across a green horizon and I nod affirmatively, they may predictably go on to say, "then you saw an alien golf cart in the sky." That bugs me. Nobody knows what I experienced and to concretize it with simple punctuations and framings removes the uncertainty and mystery of an out of the ordinary moment. I hope you see that I am actually giving more validity and importance to the experience by refusing these all too easy/lazy to use punctuations."
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
Re: Shunyata
You write,
"The deities/wisdom beings are aspects of existence in its pure form, they are the faces of our own realized mind and they are the voice of the universe speaking to itself as it relates to our individual energies, minds and forms. They exist both on the inner and other dimension and yet, like all things, their existence is basically shunya, transparent open space."
Absolutely, this a very important realization to keep in mind. Regards, Joseph
They are BEING-ness in a pure expression
Thanks, Joseph, but these are the words from a nondual tantric teacher.
http://www.kalima.org/tantra-plainly-put.php
I keep remembering the story from Stan Grof: He went to a lecture where he thought the speaker was reading one of Grof's books about the psychedelic experience. Finally Grof realised that the speaker was a Kashmir tantric shaivite teacher explaining the tantric cosmology. I haven't found yet a more sophisticated view that Tantra/Dzogchen ( and her sisters Chan/Zen/Taoism)....
The Dzogchen practitioner Elias Capriles tells a revealing story about a student asking advice to his teacher about the "demons", the teacher telling him to paint a sign on the body of the demon, and not killing the demon under any circunstance....well, the student is attacked by the demon, he can paint a symbol on the belly of the demon....and finally the student realises that he has the same symbol painted on his own belly....
http://webdelprofesor.ula.ve/humanidades/elicap/en/
Regards,
Zorro
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
World Soul (Collective Unconscious)
UFO Disinfo: Background document
Before Montauk, Icke, Greer, Jim Keith, etc.. here is where much of it started. It reads like a script template for the X-Files.
http://www.beyondweird.com/ufos/OH_Krill_Document_1988.html
Video of Aliens Among Us
Re: Student of Sophia
For whatever it's worth, I'll repeat, what I already have told some times on RS.
I have app. 150 hours direct, personal experience of the anomaleous phenomena, which generally are named 'Fortean'. Including UFOs, complex beings able to perform activities, which are 'impossible' according to present science, and myself as the victim of some rather advanced and unpleasant psi-technologies. I've had extensive communication with these generally hostile beings, but I've never been abducted though.
My experiences have been with me in an ordinary state of awareness, with no drugs or any mind-expanding methods involved. I simply percieved these phenomena precisely, as I would with any 'normal' physical object or organic being. I have been professionally tested for the standard medical reasons as to this being 'hallucinations', I have been declared non-psychotic by psychiatrists (my only mental disorder is separation-panic, which hardly would lead to such experiences as these), and no regression-technique of any kind has been necessary to bring my experiences forth. As far as normal memory allows, I have all details clear and present in my ordinary awareness.
Half a dozen other people have at various times also observed anomalies on my place, where my own experiences happened.
So for me, there's no doubt about the existence of such anomaleous phenomena, but it's not a point, I want to press. It's up to each one to form his/her own opinion, as the whole subject is so filled with misinfo and contradictory evidence as to make it non-intelligible. Albeit I must admit to some surprise of the simplistic, sensational and commercial discussion being conducted generally.
But I would like to support my own credibility a bit (I like to consider myself an honest person), a point which in this context is almost as important as the experiences themselves. First of all I protect my privacy very strongly in this matter; not because I'm afraid of ridicule or something like that, but because I love the peace and isolation of my present life. I wouldn't want that destroyed by a media-cirkus around my person. Also I'm not in any way economically involved in the situation.
And last, but not least, the whole subject is contrary to my real interest: A search for 'reality' (whatever that may be). And while 'aliens', 'others', UFOs etc can add to a general knowledge of cosmic existence, just as any other source of information, there's not much to gain in (what popularly has been called) 'spirituality'. At best it's a blind alley, where the most positive is, that these other complex beings are exposed as just that instead of nurturing religious notions of demons, angels etc. Anomalies are usually not especially spiritual.
My preoccupation with the subject is based on, that it has made rather an invasive impact on my life. An impact I must relate to unless it leads to irreparable consequences for me. And on this note I would like to connect to 'student of Sophia's recent post. I agree with you in almost all your observations, but to treat the situation from a total 'Maya' aspect is only relevant, if you already are in some nirvana-like state. Otherwise there ARE 'outer' consequences to consider (I can refer to the article and comments on 'free will').
Re: Bogomil
Thanks for your interesting post.
You said:
"I have app. 150 hours direct, personal experience of the anomaleous phenomena, which generally are named 'Fortean'. Including UFOs, complex beings able to perform activities, which are 'impossible' according to present science, and myself as the victim of some rather advanced and unpleasant psi-technologies. I've had extensive communication with these generally hostile beings, but I've never been abducted though."
I believe you. I've seen many UFOs, alone and with other people, during normal waking states of consciousness with no drugs. The physical manifestation of UFO entities and craft is part of the puzzle. The physical manifestation of objects such as "implants" in the body can be traced all the way back to early shamanism, and Carl Jung found the physical manifestation of unconscious material to be no problem in a psycho-physical reality. And due to the way psi works the complexity or magnitude of a psychic task or manifestation is completely irrelevant because psi is goal-oriented and it transcends space/time, matter/energy.
Implants are 'apports'. As was the legendary philosophers stone. UFO phenomena have always been with us, since early shamanism, taking on different symbolic forms in different cultures and ages. In all such instances, the essence of the phenomena is the same. And in all such instances, objects and seemingly autonomous entities can physically manifest to waking ego consciousness. Again, the complexity is irrelevant.
The way the UFO phenomena manifested in ancient India is very informative. I recommend reading Alien Identities : Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena by Richard L. Thompson.
"...Alien Identities is absolutely seminal, a real ground breaker...A "must-read" addition to the field." -Whitley Strieber
Re 2: Student of Sophia
Mostly based on my own experiences, I do not take a definite stand on the nuts-and-bolts versus the psi-oriented discussion on this subject. Considering that I've met 10-15 different species, it wouldn't be hard for me to accept, that there probably exist great variations concerning corporeality and what goes for 'technology' amongst them. That these beings didn't have much real knowledge of matter-based technology was obvious, but in spite of their probably electro-magnetic field existence, some of them had a psi-based method to produce short and local 'matter'-manifestations such as sound and touch. And while 'matter' as we normally percieve it, really isn't matter, but repulsion of electron-charge, the change from visual appearance (fundamentally EM waves) to what humans call matter seemed to be difficult to them. It could possibly be a question of energy levels (Pippalayana, if you're reading this and don't consider it waste of time, your expert opinion would be welcome).
That these beings are of EM origin was clearly demonstrated to me as all of my digital displays went crazy (one hasn't recovered yet and probably never will), my computer was examined for communication from me in this period (but without being turned on!), and that electronically produced sound (CD) could be altered into some highly disagreeable gibberish, giving messages worthy of the worst kind of brainwashing-methods. Wonder if we subliminally are listening to this type of sounds all the time..... Just speculating.
Besides, these beings' EM existence must have some bio-electric implication also. With one exception none of them would come closer to me than two meters.... One should be grateful for small blessings.
As to the rest of your post, I can only support your opinions. Apart from not having read the book you recommended. Only 'Gods of Eden', which I find quite instructive in a toned-down way.
Sorry all you guys, who concentrate on secondhand speculations presented on symposiums. I thought a bit direct evidence could be of interest; at least to some.
RE 2: Bogomil
You said:
"Wonder if we subliminally are listening to this type of sounds all the time..... Just speculating."
Probably, to some degree.
From a Biblical perspective this is probably to be considered as part of the 'strong delusion' sent out by God in the 'end times'. If I may speculate a bit - As a result of world disclosure, an exoteric 'nuts and bolts' UFO mythology will sweep the world like wildfire.
Then, with the full strength of our collective psi (faith) behind that 'outer' mythology, it will manifest in full and it will be like the 'days of Noah' when the 'sons of God' walked among us. But that won't save us because it's based on a falsehood, based on our inability to recognize the true nature of the phenomena, reality, and ourselves.
Student, Bogomil...
...my essay covers the ground you are talking about and relates it to our present Situation on this planet today. Unfortunatley, I posted it wrong and lost the paragraph structure.
Two things. You should realize that to go out of your way to stress that your experiences do not involve entheogens subtly reinforces the idea that entheogenic experience is not quite as valid, and this is false. In doing this, you help propagate the anti-entheogenic attitude that dominates our culture.
If by Gods of Eden you are talking about the Bramley book (I read it long ago) you should know that there are those who think that the the author was heavily influenced by Scientology. Here is a link to conspiracy researcher Jim Keith:
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/sp000434.html
I am not saying that the book should not be read because of this, I am only saying that this whole field is tricky.
Re: JosephKitaj
I wasn't aware, that I 'went out of my way' to stress invalidity of drugbased experiences, but if it appeared so, I hereby state, that this was not my intention. I had my share of chemical experimentation in my distant youth, and consider it an invaluable part of my change from mainstream to individualist. With the exception of hard drugs (opiates and amphetamine), I'm all for liberation of drug-use.
But then I can't disregard, that not all drugexperiences lead to 'insight'. I had a lot of co-experimenters concerning drugs, and most of them ended up in a very small, private universe, where entertainment values had a high priority. The few who tried to avoid such waste of opportunity relapsed into new-age-community activities, doing grouphugs or imitating tibetan monks etc. This was in a time of community-feeling being a fad, and participators mostly just demonstrated to each other, how politically correct they were. Hopefully this has changed.....but people being people??
So while I consider drugs as an excellent possibilty to get a first glimpse of a version of unfiltered 'reality', it also contains a great risk of amplified delusion. And anyway, as my main purpose is to acchieve communication, and ordinary awareness is a more common ground for that, I chose this instead of the more specialized drug perspective.
I'm far from being a scientologist myself, especially seen from the angle of organisational structure, but I'm not so critical about it, that I would condemn the value of any work being influenced by it. Personally I e.g. consider Hubbard's psychology far superior to the Freudian model.
Also I'm big enough to form independent opinions myself, and 40+ years in the alternative subculture has taught me to sniff out hidden ideologies disguised as selfevident truth, but actually being nothing more than doctrinal oration. And in the very weird world of conspiration-theory (which I enjoy much), show me the evidence, theory or speculation, which isn't pronounced abominable one way or another by someone else. These people can sometimes be worse than religious secterians, often getting lost in intricacies of dogma, who said what about whom, personal vendettas and correct 'protocol'.
I found 'The gods of Eden' valuable for its intrinsic qualities, and with at least a sound historical research as a basis. And the author only took 'liberties' with his material a few times, arriving at somewhat unsubstantiated conlusions. Many present books or articles are straight out sloppy in this respect.
With all respect. I would like to avoid hijacking this thread by straying too far from the main subject. You mind if we return there?
Which thread?
The main thread or the sub-thread you are involved with within that main thread? The main thread here involved an almost completely uncritical endorsement of the UFO conference, so I addressed that.
As for sub-threads, such as the one you, Student and Zorro are involved in, I also attempted to address that (without reposting a long essay already posted on this site), though admittedly, my post above combined the two.
The video was an attempt to inject a little humor into the proceedings.
All three approaches can synergetically contribute to a meta-thread.
I did not at all go into your competence as a researcher, I simply passed on some info concerning Bramley as a further contribution to the main thread in which we are all posting. It was a further attempt to provide context for the broad investigation of Extraordinary Encounters by alerting everyone to certain a prioris that have subtly crept into the whole field of investigation, a prioris that are often not seen as such.
As for *drugs*, the very use of that term instead of "entheogen" (or at least "psychedelic", though the two are not synonymous) creates the very confusion you mention: blurring the difference between recreational use and psychedelic yoga.
Warm regards, Joseph
Criminal charges filed against Obama WHO and UN for Bioterrorism
They may not be so different from us
as we suppose. The term 'alien' I have come to feel is a little misleading. Through dreams, psychedelics and sober 'external' experiences alike, I've had my share of exchanges with...beings.
I have what I call, with her OK, and for lack of a better term, an 'alien girlfriend' and often others from other realms who regard me as something like a friend and/or confidant, often let me know in no uncertain terms that they are often as in the dark about what it's all about as we are. Our actions have effects on their realm and vice versa. My 'girlfriend' has been in love with me for a long time, and takes as much shit for it from her kind as I might if I were to more openly acknowledge it. Honestly, if the roles of humans and 'them' were reversed, would we feel ok about making our presence in their world more blatant in the face of such hostility as we show them, and if we saw them treating each other as wretchedly as we do our own kind?
There is an Albanian proverb that goes "The Devil may not be as black as he appears." HOw much of our supposed understanding of them, and how much of their responses to us, is colored by simple fear and ignorance? They might very well be simply mirroring and imitating US.
I remember reading that Bramley book when it first came out, and interviews with the author. I trust his sincerity because it was so utterly not his intention at all to write the book that he did, but as he was researching his original thesis, he came across so much...evidence...that pointed in that direction that he could not dismiss it. Thus he wrote Gods of Eden, which I personally still consider one of the most well-reasoned and sober minded books of that theme. I never saw any statements or claims that he was involved in Scientlogy. Just FIY.
I am enjoying the discussion you all are having--nice to see intelligent, open-minded exchanges on this subject, for a change! :)
"God sends meat, the devil sends cooks."
Re: Jeff Charest
Hi Jeff,
thanks for your levelheaded post. But then you mostly write that way.
I agree with much of what you said, and have on occasion voiced the opinion, that beings, who are higher on the food-pyramid than we are (and hence ingest us in one way or another), not always or necessarily are 'evil' as such. Not more than the average human, who consider other animals as a natural food-subject, be it by evolution or some godgiven dispensation.
Personally I've taken the practical standpoint, that I want to try to minimize the suffering implied in a predatory food-hierachy, by sidestepping it as much as possible. An attitude which is completely personal and as un-invasive, as I can make it.
But then there are different ways of 'keeping cattle', as exemplified by the contrast between the small, ecological farm with animals treated with some respect (albeit they do end up slaughtered) and the industrial-like mass-production of meat, where the animals are treated rather heartless on every step of the process. For the simple reason, that it gives shortsighted economical advantages at the price of un-necessary suffering.
Ofcourse it's always unpleasant to be lower on the food-ladder, but what I find most abominable about our situation, is that our planet is treated exactly as a corporate project, only for gain, devoid of compassion. Our owners probably spend most of their time manipulating their equalent of a stock-market, and let the earthling Quislings (overseers) do most of the dirty job of breeding, harvesting and keeping the cattle in line. Punctuated by the occasional experiment to maximize profit.
There are probably 'thems' and 'thems', just as humans can vary considerably, and also I do not naively believe, that humanity would be treated much better, if we against all expectations started to behave decently or rationally ourselves. But as it it now, we hardly have moral grounds for complaining, seeing as it is, that we as a species often manifest 'evil' ourselves, and one necessary part of 'a way out' would be to understand the predator/prey problem better than we do now and in a wider context.
I'm e.g. rather convinced myself, that we make life a hell for the socalled 'elementals', who mostly are defenseless against the consequences of human greed, stupidity and arrogance.
And theists, please. Do not take my above opinions a support of grovelling meekness. I haven't yet reached the point of a buddha offering his body to a starving lioness, neither do I feel, that I must submit my will to some psychopathic deity. When attacked, I still consider flee or fight a legitimate moral option. I haven't exactly ASKED anybody to use me as food.
Ah, I see...
"God sends meat, the devil sends cooks."
Re2: Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I admit it's a hard nut to crack, as a reasonable startingpoint would be cosmology/cosmogony. What and how much are build-in factors in cosmic existence, which so to speak are 'natural' and therefore more or less automatic? E.g. is my cat 'evil' because he plays with his prey? (Sad to say, he's not a very clean killer).
It's no secret, that I consider cosmic laws as what the gnostics called 'error', for me reality is somewhere beyond cosmos. But to go beyond cosmos, as I have it in my terminology, is a constant uphill project, and I can, if not sympathise, then at least understand those who get tired on the way, even if they see the need for a change.
It's a too extensive subject to go into details about, but I believe, that when a species of complex beings evolve to a certain degree of intelligence, practical and theoretical options of ethics can follow. Actually ethics MUST follow, as high-tech species without ethics are in a position of total (self)destruction. So whatever a possible 'shift' turns out to be, it's our only chance to save Gaia, including ourselves.
I make an educated guess as to the other species, which are present on this planet. Their motives are most likely a combination of 'mining' Terra for resources, cultivating humans for 'food' (the negs live on emotional energy) and cheap labor and (when humans are finished off or put in reservations) offer Terra for colonisation to other groups.
This pattern is easily recognized from our own recent history, and shouldn't come as a surprise.
I try to avoid getting doctrinal, so I'll modify the following to a postulate: Some of the strangers/others/visitors etc are probably just as bad off, as we are, as they haven't faced their own necessary shift, and the meaningless ruthlessness often demonstrated by them is a sign of their own desperation.
That some of these species don't seem to possess, what we call emotions, can explain the lack of compassion. But there's always good old utilitarian morality as a runner-up. A recommendation for 'aliens' as well as for humans.
Re: Oannes
Hi Oannes,
sorry, can't remember the threads, where my personal experiences have been presented. Only the first one, called something with 'the others'.
As to your questions, some of them are answered in my answer to Jeff, but I'll go a bit more into detail about some of it. I do not believe in a black/white situation concerning the nuts-and-bolts and psychic controversy on UFOs, 'aliens' 'others' etc. There are several different species on this planet at the moment, and they have different levels of existence. Some of them are also able to change from one level to another, at least partly. E.g. from being non-corporeal to manifesting slightly physical 'matter' phenomena. And vice versa; nothing is clearcut.
Those fundamentally existing as energyforms, use energy for nourishment, and apparantly bio-energy from mammals on this planet can be used for this purpose. So the 'harvest' isn't physical, but energetical; bio-energy as pure energy. And war, overpoluation, severe stress, mental illness, famine and plagues are actually part of the harvesting methodology.
Such an idea is ofcourse nonsense for a materialistic reductionist, but to those not belonging to this group, I would recommend to consider some of the more absurd 'ideologies' emerging in human history. Religions insisting on genocide of practically everyone else, the late South-american cultures with their mass-sacrifices and Hitler's drowning his own germans in the underground-station in the last days of WW II etc.
This special parasitic aspect of alien/others relationship to humans have been told of for thousands of years, but as our present prists of scientism yet have to find a method to study it in a laboratorium, it doesn't per definition exist.
Maybe is doesn't look that way, but I try to minimize tales about my experiences here. So if you have any specific questions, you're welcome to contact me directly and with very few exceptions I'll answer anything.
Re: Veronique
Sure. E.g. the experience of existence based on corporeal and non-corporeal life, and the resulting epistemologically differences in itself creates a formidable communication barrier.
Something often observed in contact between 'others' and humans.
abody
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