The Future of Psychedelics
Daniel Pinchbeck
This article originally appeared in Conscious Choice magazine.
The 2008 World Psychedelic Forum was an almost shockingly respectable affair. Held in Basel, Switzerland, in a spacious convention center next to the five-star Swissôtel Basel, the event drew 1,500 visitors for a two-day symposium on the past and present state of psychedelic thought and research. Despite flashes of eccentricity and DayGlo, you could have easily thought you were at a conference for alternative medicine or some abstruse but uncontroversial hobby. I felt honored to be one of the speakers, part of a high-profile group which included the Czech LSD researcher and theorist Stanislav Grof; Ralph Metzner, a well-known author and teacher and one of Leary's original partners at Harvard; botanists Dennis McKenna, Christian Raetsch and Kat Harrison; MAPS director Rick Doblin; anthropologist and author Jeremy Narby; visionary artists Alex and Allyson Grey; and many more.
The Gaia Media Foundation organized the forum, following upon their successful LSD conference, marking the 100th birthday of the recently late LSD chemist Albert Hofmann, two years ago. The 2008 event mingled nostalgia and insularity, futurism and hope, in equal measures. On the nostalgia side, Timothy Leary's archivist Michael Horowitz mounted an exhibit of psychedelic art and media imagery, much of it from the heyday of late-sixties flower power, while Carolyn (Mountain Girl) Garcia gave a heartfelt speech about her journeys with the Merry Pranksters and the early Haight Ashbury days of the Grateful Dead. Although Hofmann was still living at the time, he declined to attend the festivities, due to family concerns.
Sixty-five years since Hofmann's first accidental dose, new frontiers in psychedelic research are opening up, represented at the Forum by an array of therapists and scientists from institutions across Europe, the U.S. and Canada. After a 35-year blockade on the subject, psychedelic research with human subjects is being permitted again. In Switzerland, a new study explores LSD as a tool of psychotherapy -- the first such study to be allowed since the early 1970s. After years of persistent effort, the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies (maps.org) has succeeded in shepherding a number of projects through the regulatory system. Studies underway in the United States include research on use of psilocybin as a treatment for cluster headaches, and on MDMA (Ecstasy) as a treatment for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, a complex likely to haunt tens of thousands of veterans as they return from the Iraq War.
Today, there is potential for psychedelics to be reintroduced into mainstream culture, not as drastic catalysts of social upheaval but as tools that can help people overcome serious problems. In the future, MAPS sees itself becoming a "nonprofit pharmaceutical company" that distributes psychedelics to qualified professionals. On a deeper, almost subconscious level, cultural and political resistance to the scrupulous study and at least the religious use of psychedelics seems to have dissipated, to a certain extent. A recent study conducted by Johns Hopkins, giving psilocybin to subjects who had never taken a psychedelic before, found that most subjects had long-lasting positive changes in their worldview. CNN and The Wall Street Journal gave prominent coverage to the results of this study. Meanwhile, the US Supreme Court ruled in the favor of the American branch of União do Vegetal, a syncretic religion from Brazil that uses ayahuasca as its sacrament.
Beyond the scientific framework, there is compelling anecdotal data on the benefits of psychedelic use for creative processes, intellectual work and personal development. Recently, British newspapers reported that Francis Crick may have been taking low doses of LSD when he discovered the double helix shape of the DNA molecule (although he refused to allow this to be published before his death). The Nobel Prize winning biochemist Kary Mullis openly discussed the inspiration he gained from psychedelics. Many pioneers of the Internet and the personal computer experimented with psychedelics. And of course, the anthemic music, film, literature and visual culture of the late-1960s remains iconic.
During his speech at the conference, Dr. Tom Roberts, a psychology professor at Northern Illinois University, proposed that the rediscovery of psychedelics in modern culture is creating a "second Reformation." During the first Reformation, the Bible, which was only available to a priest class able to read Latin, was translated, printed and distributed to the masses, who were then able to read and interpret the "word of God" for themselves. By providing direct access to the mystical experience described in sacred texts from around the world, this "second Reformation" will, eventually, eliminate the need for a priest class that stands between the individual and personal revelation. Of course, such a deep shift in cultural perspective is a long process -- the first Reformation developed over a few hundred years.
At this point in time,
those of us who see validity in the psychedelic experience can feel
cautiously optimistic that we are reaching some tipping point in
cultural perception. The discourse around hallucinogens has become far
more sophisticated and measured than it was a generation ago. While
Timothy Leary argued psychedelics were a shortcut to "enlightenment"
and that everyone should "turn on" and "drop out," researchers today
consider psychedelics to be powerful tools that have negative effects
if used improperly, like all tools. But these substances may also have
tremendous benefits for the individual and society, when we become
mature enough to make use of them.
Image by marco braun, courtesy of Creative Commons license.
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Didn't have opportunity to
Must. Be. Wonderful. . .
Cool Cool
Propaganda Anonymous
Sounds great.
Some sane perspectives towards psychedelics.
One point where my thoughts and opinions diverge from yours Daniel, is upon the persona of Timothy Leary.
Leary told many close friends that, 'Everyone gets the Tim Leary they deserve.'
And what I think that means is that his life and person was extremely complex.
From my research and readings into the life and works of Timothy Leary I never got the impression that if I dropped enough Acid then I would become enlightened. Leary churned out theories and hypothesis' and his 'Turn On' 'Tune In' 'Drop Out' slogan, I think, can be broken down like this.
You 'Turn On' certain circuits of your nervous system when using psychedelics. These circuits are Non-Euclidean, Non-Aristotelian, and Multi-dimensional....
One 'Tune's In' to these circuits, and with practice can learn how to access these parts with or without psychedelics. The 'Drop Out' part of the equation comes into play when one chooses to drop out of the rat race existence of America during the 60's. It seemed more like a 'Dropping out' from the Ideological Structures that bind people to those lifestyles.
I think Leary was grossly mis-understood back then and remains so to this day. Albeit, he may have played some part in his being misunderstood....but as Allen Ginsburg said the cat was essentially a Beat. And they were all a little crazy.
See man, I find Leary's later work's 'Info-psychology' and 'Chaos and Cyberculture' to be much more informative than his and Alpert and Metzger's 'The Psychedelic Experience'
And his first book, 'Interpersonal Diagnosis of Personality,' simplified in 'The Politics of Self-determination' I find to be absolutely brilliant social psychology.
What upsets me most, really, and this is not directed towards you, but the Polite Politics that silently govern some professions and congregations is that these great pieces of thought that Leary produced are ignored, and he for all his contributions to Transactional Psychology is Black-Listed, Still to this day!
Not Cool, IMHO.
Sure Leary had some flaws. But I say that those flaws existed more in his personal life than in his philosophical/psychological life.
Lastly, the 2000 Disinfo.com Conference used one of Leary's later phrases as it's title slogan. And I think this phrase is a great addendum to Leary's 'Tune In' 'Turn On' 'Drop Out' And that phrase is 'Find the Others'
After one has had that great psychedelic breakthrough, and have dropped out from the one-dimensional world of plastic lies, then go out and find the others.
I consider Reality Sandwich, much like Disinfo.com and MaybeLogic.org as a place to find the others.
And for me, personally, Leary most definitely helped me with that.
PEACE D
fear of enlightenment
the other day, i was listening to what i think was a reading of Carl Jung's work (i could be wrong, but WHO said it isn't the important part), and it basically said that in modern culture, the the fear and loathing is not for the psychedelics themselves, but rather for what they do, or more accurately, for what they cause to happen in the mind of the individual. there are drug stores on every corner, and i would say that a large percentage of people in the world are on some kind of prescription "drug". not to mention the rampant use of tobacco, caffeine, and alcohol (to name a few). people have little to no qualms about those socially acceptable drugs, but for some reason they condemn and fear the subtances that by comparison are healthier and far more likely to to be mentally constructive, rather than DESTRUCTIVE.
perhaps the reason for this can be summed up in two quotes:
"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul." - Carl Jung
"LSD has the tendency to cause insanity in those who do NOT take it." (paraphrased) - Timothy Leary
Beautiful
A Respectable Affair
"The 2008 World Psychedelic Forum was an almost shockingly respectable affair. "
I can imagine. This needs shaking up!
The world is under attack by maniacal souldead globalists with serious shit weapons and growing arsenal of 'non-lethal' weapons for 'crowd control' and what not, etc etc etc.
'Respectable' dont DO it!!!
Species extinctions, polluting the planet with depleted uranium. The social-controlling LIE which is the Therapeutic State.
Certain 'psychedelic snobs' tend to look down and criticize 'dirty 'hippies', but at LEAST they weren't fukin respectable!!!
respect-able. to be able of
the respect of others, self, medicine plants?
which part of being respectable are we glad that were not exactly?
i agree though, for me to there is a tension in the language, in legitimacy.
to be legitimate seems these days synonymous with being effective in capitalist society. i wonder about other legitimate drugs; is their legitimacy enabling us to use them any more positively?
i worry also if legitimization leads to compartmentalization, taxation, trivialization.
i think this need to seperate resonsible use from irresponsible use stems from a desire to be accepted by the system and therefore ultimately by ourselves.
i have to say this is something that i definately feel, i am worried deeply by the nililistic hedonistism that seems to be gathering momentum at the moment and certainly in england is inescapable in the festival scene. i find it distressing that whilst i feel im trying to put all my energy into being awake and dealing with the situation on the planet right now, alot of us even in the supposedly alternative scene are doing the exact opposite.
so i can understand the desire to want to be seperate from that just as i can understand that any psychdellic experience is as valid as the next. i want to be able to believe that we are all on our path and learning exactly the lessons that we need to right now. but i have to say i am really stuggling with this at the moment.
*in lak'esh ala k'in
graduation?
i'm not sure what exactly leary meant by dropping out. it could be either dropping out of society or about leaving lsd. i'd be interested to see. kesey talked about the "acid graduation," which is a similarly vague idea.i think he was talking about graduating from the drug, and then trying to get there without the shortcut after having seen "it," but i'm not positive about either of their true beliefs concerning the extent to which lsd should be used.
dosages and frequency of use seem to be based on individual preference and "need." there couldn't be a universal rule for that kind of thing. one person could take massive amounts for a long period of time, and have it be fully positive and enlightening, and another could just as easily devour it obsessively with the wrong intentions where it damages them more than it helps. intentions seem to be the key.as for ecstasy prescribed to veterans...i'm sure it would have some positive effects, but prescription mdma? is that what we need? is that what vets need? dependence on it to maintain happiness can be pretty intense too. i would worry about abuse, not that they haven't been abused, because they do need much more attention at home. peace sandwich,bill
i took LSD
for the first time in late 67, to me "to turn on tune in, drop out" had a very vital message at the time, it was the only message that made any sense to me, other then the messages i got form lyrics form music artists.LSD was suddenly there when everything else seemed to be telling me to fit in, turn off my creative energy, and stay a cog in the machine.Obviously i was not from a educated background my folks were not.But i grew up in the baby boom in California, so i had some attraction to art and began to want to see what was on the other side of the social curtain.
So that is why i decided to write a novel about my experience as a teenager that the psychedelic wave swept me up in.To tell just what it was like in 67, 68 and what LSD meant to me, even though it was wild kooky and mind blowing, and flashbacks were a thing of the future.But it also was a sign of the times, that that novel moment peak of the summer of love was a huge swell in some shift that was happening because the planet was sending out signals.Free love was not just a lot of kids suddenly freeing their sexual impulse, it was like a gigantic orgasm of revolution screaming for awakening.But psychedelics were some hidden variable part of the picture, yet they had been unleashed from some collective need and also ironic a by product of the psychic explosion that was in the shadow of the other big explosion.How can we say what Leary really was thinking besides his position in the world of psychology, he just sorta took that quantum leap, and a lot of young people where looking toward that medium is the message noosphere.There when the Zietgeist was showing its DNA UFO LSD.
I tend to see it as a moment of droping out from the waves coming from the future as the waves were way above our heads and the trends of the folks with the bombs and religion, were causing one hurt hiccup in the galactic belch.
Do you want me to sound like a university professor, and trot out Trotsky and connect his last days in Mexico with some under the radar volcano of psychic blips that show up on the looking glass scope? Can we be more intense then Hollywood special effects? Was the one and only movie about dropping LSD in 67 hardly on the screen, and underfunded so that Jack Nicholson was edited into a good popcorn afternoon? And the other crazy ride of Fear and Loathing that was movie made, had some better computer graphics.NO we don't want to see the real hip moment in all its LSD colors, we want to see chainsaw MDA and the POD people meet Godzilla people when the twins tower.But hey that did what they could with the effects they had at the time in the Trip.
The Internet IS for using ;)
I don't mean to patronize, but before you sits one of the most revolutionary happenings. It is the THE Inter~net?
And to explore what Tim meant by 'turn on tune in drop out'..........? well errr, hey......why not have a look on the Web??
For example get an insight here: ooops it wont paste.
Just google this then ' Leary turn on tune in drop out meaning' and the very first link is titled 'Turn On Tune In Drop Out, and you will see smiling Tim's face next to it.
"Drop out" of course means, drop out of the shit you SEE when your tripping when watching 'civilization' in action. Which for me was frantic sad people-like-androids seemingly possessed by the culture rushing around like headless chickens.
It is not only 'Hippies' who saw this, but also Indigenous people who got unwelcome contact from the modern discontent grasping mindset.
So, drop out of THAT. Yes!....YES.....YES!!!
The Future of Psychedelics
i have absolutly no idea
what this is suppose to mean,
"we must cling to the more responsible application of these tools if we ever hope to legitmizing them"
are we clinging to the responsible use by pretending that only high brow people are the responsible recievers of the psychedelic experience?
i respect the people mentioned here, but i am not sure how to use a illegal mind manifesting substance without having to find out a lot through trial and error.
yes it would be just wonderful if we lived in a world where people could go to a peaceful center and have a set and setting that allows for a perfectly responsible experience.
otherwise it could just become just another control arm of drug companies and professional types.So around and around we go...
Couldn't agree more CJ
Propaganda Anonymous
My thoughts with psychedelics like LSD and Mushrooms is that most of the talk about 'responsible' vs 'irresponsible' usage is OVER. It's a done deal. The books were closed long ago.
Our culture has had Leary, Ginsburg, The Merry Pranksters, Hunter S. Thompson, on and on....
We've moved past the first stage.
This is where I really like what Daniel has to say. Thinking about the influence of psychedelics in 'our' culture. First stage of 'Initiation' being the 60's. And now, quite possibly, we may be in second stage 'Initiation'
I don't look at the mistakes my parents made with the way they lived with and wrestled with the world with anger anymore. I look upon them with compassion, learn from their mistakes, and get it moving. Hoping that my seeds will be forgiving in their own way and go further than I. I
think we NEEDED those crazy trippy cats. I learned soooo much from 'IRRESPONSIBLE' Trips. But, yeah, part of the lesson was to find more contained ways of tripping.
Perhaps that's what Atrio was getting at.
There are enough experienced 'guides' out there, even on a casual level, to help people utilize psychedelics that will enhance their own developments.
I have much respect to all the juvenile delinquents I have known in my time when it comes to certain moments of psychedelia.
I first got wind of LEARY in high school when a friend stole a book of his for me.
Sometimes, with the way this whole thing is configured, One needs the 'Criminal' mindset in order to break free. But once one has got his/her footing on some solid ground, ya then plant the seeds in righteous soil.
at 17 in 67
it would have been totally irresponsible of me to not drop 'L"
well, when i get my novel published others can look to those days, and see a moment crystalline in the sunshine of flower power.That moment forever, when Leary, Watts and Ginsberg and Gary Snyder talked about the gathering of the tribes, when it all seemed to just float there in some amniotic fluid of possibility. When kids really smiled, and people flashed the peace sign, instead of the middle finger.That moment when it seemed like LSD was meant to be penetrated and followed through with the psychedelic prayers, and it was all a magic in that smiling Cheshire moon leafy trembling air.
that flashing moment...and all around the signs where a changin...
see my hand sign? two fingers meet pointing up.
(oh i did see the bummers, but that was the ones that were being responsible, you know "don't follow leaders")
and yes i am a hope fiend, and the second initiation has time is come, "time has come today.
...and my soul has been psychedesized!"
Responsible vs Not
There results of the wild eyed trip gurus has been global illeagalization of paychedelics, immediately grouping new ones in the Schedule I status as they get discovered. The drug culture of the 1960's went too far, and we can't repeat that history is my suggestion. The result was devastating, considering the avalibility of psychedelics. With the new studies on going I am ecstatic that these substances may be legitimized possibly with in my lifetime. The men mentioned above were using and urging the responsible use of these psychedelic substances. Huxley asked Leary to "keep it down", regarding the exploitation of psychedelics and set & setting. Perhaps we needed the mass expolitation at that time. We now need to decriminalize these tools and the way to do that will be found through responsible clinical trials with documented repeatable results, which won't be such an impossibility. It will require patience and cool calm collected heads.
The 'VS.' 'Either/Or' Logic seems pointless to me
Propaganda Anonymous
I think that ultimately 'clinical trials' in many different types of settings is a good move. The Set and Setting method something, and I may be mistaken, that Leary came up with.
Leary was a swashbuckler. Huxley, a very contained and sweet individual I'm sure. Both were needed in my estimation. This movement seems to take all kinds. And we can debate over which side of the spectrum is more important, my guess is that it is bigger than all our preferences.
My retort towards your suggestion, Atrio, about the devastating affects of the making of LSD illegal is this (and I borrow from Robert Anton Wilson here)
When psychedelics went illegal, it forced many heads to get more creative in their pursuits. Prime example is Stanislav Grof's research. When LSD went illegal he then went back to the books, with his Christina, and found that The Breath can be utilized in a specific way to induce transperaonal experiences. They then re-invented Holotropic Breathwork!
My guess is that they would not have come up with that if psychedelics had not been made illegal. See what I'm saying?
It all seems part of a bigger story arc, Bucky Fuller has a name for such instances. He dubbed it 'Precession' (Critical Path)
Where we are at today, My suggestion towards the new research would be keep the SETTING as non-clinical as possible.
Who wants to trip around a bunch of white coats?
I think Stan Grof's work should be the definitive Model to work from.
Let's get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO prohibited psychedelics?
Give us a name?
And do you not think that they will not be related to the major power weilders who have their bloody grubby hands in EVERYTHING?
And what do we know happened before the 1960s psychedelic revolution , during, and during the prohibition( which lets be honest just continues, right?). It is HORROR! it is these power weilders doing birty global building corporate deals , crushing people, polluting planet earth, wars for profit, making thousands of other species extinct, 9/11, and on and on and on!
These dirty evil bastards didn't even have the compassion to even allow psychedelic therapy for the terminally ILL!!!
This is the cold souldead force we are dealing with. And I dont want to play it their way whatso bloody ever.
I see some glimmers of hope
while we talk about the who what here how
i am about speaking to the actual experiences that a lot of people were having when LSD suddenly came on the scene, since i was one of those people, i can speak about my experience, through my eyes, and as there is so much to take into consideration, i have to put it into some kind of perspective that allows for the best possible justice to be done to the whole picture of the times and signs.
Everybody comes into this in their own way, through their own colored glasses, my coming into the psychedelic world was swift and had certain psychological factors effecting my choosing to jump into the stream of consciousness that the psychedelic metaphor represented.Oh people will say that a teenager only wants a trill ride, and indeed there is an element of that.I do think that it is a more complex issue though, because psychedelics were suddenly on the scene at a very crucial moment and the issues of the powers that be attempted to manipulate this strange attractor.
Yet looking at the history of use of mind altering substances and understanding all the underground literature that has been suppressed or rendered into obscurity we can see an ongoing spiritual revolution in the human psyche.Therefore this diverse element, when the cat was let out of the bag has taken on a life of its own regardless of the legal and on going current usage and possible future of such use.But in the mean time the only way to really grok the whole psychedelic picture is to back up and focus and refocus and find the creative center.
Merely tossing in some urge to be careful "this time around" is like saying when you are coming to a good dose of LSD that you should think about politics and religion, and legality.Ah, well that is not condusive to a awakening experience, but it is relative to the whole picture that it has always been relative to.It's just that in the psychedelic state one has other possible areas to explore, and this is where the real understanding of the whole comes into some kind of perspective.Maybe this moment of suspended belief is where the whole thing is pointing.The future of psychedelics, is relative to meaning of psychedelic experience in this suspended moment.Only through understanding the nonlinear aspect of this mind expander, can the linear aspect resolve.
As long as the experience it points to is still held in hostage to belief and fragmented thinking that fosters the warps of confusion that is wrapped around this precious gnosis, this moving image of eternity, this theater of transformative vision... is still a huge question mark on the existential horizon.At this moment as we speak as karma or consciousness of the future is waving at us with furious hands, is there still room for a bicycle ride that entered and rode out side of history on a very special afternoon?
Word...LOGOS
Propaganda Anonymous
zezt man, you seem to have a lot of intense feelings associated with the topic of psychedelics.
I cannot, at this time, agree with much of what you are saying.
I am interpreting what you have posted as a form of paranoia. Paranoia does have it's place, but I don't see it as productive and not really completely true.
I do agree with some of the passion in your words. However I don't think that the CIA got anywhere with LSD. I think they tried, but LSD was 'The Problem Child' that couldn't be contained by Authoritarian Forces.
Thinking in Generalizations, and perpetuating Ideological structures of repression, seems more dangerous to me than what 'THEY' can do.
CJ man, I'm really diggin on your story here. I totally feel what you're putting out there on this topic.
CREATIVITY seems the ultimate goal here, I think too!
'Reality is nothing but a song'
Movements and symphonies...that's where it's at!
I think that coalesces with Robert's thought's on the subject.
Let's all become Artists and Scientists!
here is the rub
kensho
'While Timothy Leary argued psychedelics were a shortcut to "enlightenment"..'
This may seem a bit simplistic, but I think in many ways it could be true.
I found it interesting that -
'“sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries.'
Alan Watts also talks about the similarities between psychedelics and the mystical experience -
http://deoxy.org/w_psyrel.htm
I think this kind of 'kensho' experience can shake up a person's beliefs about the world, making them more pliable, more ready for enlightenment.
http://deoxy.org/wiki/Kensho
And I think that drugs are still very much a taboo subject for teachers of advaita/nonduality, that they dare not talk about it, as if that drugs lead to enlightment is still a 'secret'.
It just makes me mad that it is illegal for us to experiment with our own minds in this way.
Do we want to live in an enlightened society or not?
FASCINATING thread!!
Thom Lloyd-Evans : "A lot of contemporary poetry in particular seems stuck in a coolly ironic realm of the signifier - but psychedelics seem to annul the divorce between signifier and signified." "There's a new vocal technology awaiting us, an onomatopoeic synaesthesia that might, with a skillful singer, be able to accomplish quite miraculous stuff. What if humans could embody, through sound, an apple? Naive questions like this would be fun to explore (fun for me at least)" Hi Thom, I would love it if you could expand on what you mean with these quotes, I find your post really intriguing
Propaganda Anonymous: " zezt man, you seem to have a lot of intense feelings associated with the topic of psychedelics."
Of course I do.
Psychedelics have radically changed and influenced and inspired my life!
"I am interpreting what you have posted as a form of paranoia. Paranoia does have it's place, but I don't see it as productive and not really completely true."
When someone is accused of being 'paranoid' in our culture, whose guiding myth is the 'Therapeutic's State''s myth of mental illness. It means one is being accused of being 'mentally ill' (don't worry, I am cool. But am trying to answer in depth). What such an accusation is designed to do, whether aware of it or not, is silence you. And imply that the accused concerns are of no import, because they are distorted pathological views. This 'diagnosis' is similar to what women were accused of in the years before Feminism, and so on. 'Hysteria'-- was the pseudo psychiatric term-- if they spoke out against their oppression, and/or manifested distress in any way. So similarly now. If one speaks out about the oppression from the State, one is being 'paranoid'....? But I am not. I am simply trying to passionately share information what the powers that be DO! What they are up to. The illegal wars for profit, the staged terrorist attacks, the mindcontrol tactics via TV and Hollywood, animal vivisection, ecocidal pollution of Earth which will last for millions of years making vast areas--which will spread--uninhabitable, and the awful effects this is bringing to planet Earth and all the other species who DEPEND on Planet Earth for life! This is very important to deeply understand. And understand the urgency of the responsibility we must now get, not only for ourselves, but for the generations to come.
"I do agree with some of the passion in your words. However I don't think that the CIA got anywhere with LSD. I think they tried, but LSD was 'The Problem Child' that couldn't be contained by Authoritarian Forces."
You missed my meaning. I mean that the same forces that have the CIA as servants and that mindset still exist big time, and they control the money, and the Therapetic State that will be giving psychedelic therapies. To be AWARE of this!
"Thinking in Generalizations, and perpetuating Ideological structures of repression, seems more dangerous to me than what 'THEY' can do."
I don't have to perpetuate ideological structures of repression. They are doing it! And even if I were, how could that be more dangerous than what they are doing in Iraq?
cjmoore, we seem to be on a same wavelength which I find relieving ;)
ada: "And I think that drugs are still very much a taboo subject for teachers of advaita/nonduality, that they dare not talk about it, as if that drugs lead to enlightment is still a 'secret'. It just makes me mad that it is illegal for us to experiment with our own minds in this way. Do we want to live in an enlightened society or not? "
I feel they are taboo for the vedantists, because they are extremely powerful competetition which can expose their dodgy promises for what they are. Pie in the sky.
A seriously indepth de-construction of Advata Vedanta can be found in this book, The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power
What do I mean?
Well psychedelics are equalizers. There should be no gurus, or even shamans, IF 'shaman' takes to much authority. Each of us is unique, and each experience will be unique. The crucial thing is respect intent and love.
My experience with MDMA
MDMA has changed my life for the better. When I first took ecstacy I had very little expectations.
(By the way, this anecdote may seem trivial, juvenile, ignorant, I don't know, but it's my experience and it has only deepened my love for mind altering substances and curiosity in their potential for mind expansion and and catalyst for a global consciousness.)
Anyway, I went into my first MDMA experience with very little expectations. I was unfamiliar, I guess, with the drug. I have had experiences with DXM, marijuana, and varied amphetamines, so I did ecstacy out of pure curiosity. What I was certainly not expecting, was an altered mental state. I thought I would only recieve wonderful tingly feelings all over and to be completely elated for a few hours, etc. I had only a slight body high, though and had no urges to run, dance, or exchange perpetual hugs or anything like that.
I am an anxious person by nature and for the past few months, my head has been clogged with worries, questions, concerns, doubts, and countless other emotions that I didn't know what to do with. I pestered my family and friends with endless rants on the government, the environment and the blatant ignorance and biggotry of the people around me. I'd given up on hoping the world would change and the ever expanding ignorance epidemic of this country would cease.
Within about a half hour of taking ecstacy, though, my head was cleared. Everything fell into place and I almost got a feeling of omniscience, like I knew everything would be fine. I contemplated on my past worries and realized that things take time and the only thing you can do to change the world around you is to do something about it yourself and hope the rest of the people of the world will follow.
I let go of the animosity I had for the negetive people around me; those who act out of hate and ignorance. I felt a deeper connection with the living things around me. It was like they could feel my anxiety and were releasing a calming energy. I realize how ridiculous and eccentric this sounds, but it's the only way I can put it into words. Really, the experience was ineffable.Even now, about a month or so later, I have a more accepting world view. I am less anxious and more patient and I have more hope in the world and it's people. I've been volunteering more and it helps progress seem tangible.
Take that as you will. It's just an experience, nothing here is a fact, of course, and I am expecting anyone who reads this to question it's validity and that's okay with me. I would really like to know if anyone else has had any similar experiences. I am still much the neophyte; I've only been living seventeen years, afterall.
Peace
Interpretations ARE NOT Accussations
Propaganda Anonymous
Zezt, I was careful in my post in order to avoid any 'accussations.' Notice I wrote 'My Interpretation' Instead of 'You ARE Being this way'
And this ties into my comment about Generalizations perpetuating repressive ideologies.
From own research into psychedelics I have seen the importance that language plays in shaping our perceptions.
Starting with what Robert Anton Wilson has to say about the subject, check Quantum Psychology, and working backwards. How 'The IS of Identity' inherently distorts our perception of our world, etc.
The subject-predicate relationship which our Indo-European langauge structure throws out there does fuck with shit.
So maybe in your readings you have come across people being silenced after being called paranoid, but in my experience It's usually the paranoid people who never stop talking.
They'll tell you the same crappy argument again and again. Over and over. And they will refuse any outside opinion, then accussing the other parties as being part of the conspiracy of fools.
And yeah man, I couldn't agree more, both emotionally and intellectually with you about how power structures have twisted things to their advantage.
I share the same sentiments about Resistance. Myself and the family I come from have some history with that.
But I prefer water to rocks most of the time.
A man hired a plumber. That plumber was a crook. Took him to the cleaners. That man never hired any plumber ever again. Concluding that ALL plumbers were crooks based on that one plumber. As a result, his house filled with shit.
The Revolution is Right Now! (IMO)
The Revolution is found inside us!
And it is also outside of us.
Zezt, Sorry if it seemed like I was ACCUSING you of being paranoid.
I was trying to determine how much of your post was an airing-out and a venting, and how much was based upon open-minded inquiry.
If I wanted to do that, I would have said 'Yo man cool out. I think you ARE Being Paranoid' Dig?
You could say, that it's all semantics, but I think you'd be missing what I'm saying.
I work at being an Optimist.
I WILL it into being, because I realize the Horror of the situation.
ONE
About Paranoia
Propaganda Anonymous
I'd like to quickly say a word about 'Paranoia'
I see a spectrum of Paranoia Or 'NOIA,' rather.
NOIA perhaps being the state of mind where one sees everything is connected.
I delineate three points upon this spectrum of 'NOIA' Para-
Pro-
Meta-
Pro-noia is the title of a book this astrologer cat Rob Brezsny wrote.
Pro-Noia seems to be the 'conspiracy of hope'
As opposed to PARAnoia where the conspiracy os one of doom
Then there's META-noia, which kinda coincides with PRo-noia. Where everything is connected but in a cool way.
My own experience with mind-altering substances has gotten me thinking about the arguments for all these NOIA's
All seem to 'exist'
As Zezt made mention of the woman's movement and the inherent prejudice in Freudian theory that was influenced by social Victorian beliefs, that women 'were' Hysterical. And accused of being 'paranoid' by those who benefited from the social conditions at the time.
The same argument can be made for the egregious acts done upon African Americans, Native Americans, and Immigrants in the US as well.
Alexander Cockburn's amazing book Whiteout puts forth the argument that some paranoia can be justified. The US policy in the history of this country right up until the 1970's COINTELPRO program has been insane towards many people.
So quickly, I agree that there is at times reason 'to be' paranoid.
I think Paranoia is step 1. First step acknowledgment. Then movement forward is needed. Because one can get stuck there, and just point fingers all day long, and forget about action.
It also seems like the anxiety one may feel for survival purposes. Maybe prolonged bouts of paranoia is a survival mechanism gone too far. A sign of PTSD.
During an Ayahuasca ceremony I 'SAW' that ALL of IT EXISTS!
The 'Black Prison Planet' My phone is being tapped, I've been on a list since I was born, etc.....
And then I also 'saw' that outside, as well as inside, of that 'Prison Planet' there is a silent benevolent force slowly healing all of that. And the importance was not Proving either of the two, but more in my CHOICE of where to direct my attention. What do I wish to focus on.
Cause my attention and intentions play a major role in all of this.
I could choose 'TO FIGHT!' this prison planet. To strike first, draw blood from it's fat ugly mouth, but that engagement seemed to lead me to a trap. Trapped into an energy exchange that kept me Fighting.
I 'saw' how focusing too much on that Fight could lead to a self-fulfliing prophecy.
I will read David Icke and listen to Alex Jones, all to a point. But I'll prolly pay more attention to Ward Churchill and Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn and Robert Anton Wilson.
I DO think that Paranoia does have it's place, from time to time. And that we all experience it as well.
How can we not? The world around us is moving so quickly, technologies are bringing us closer together while at the same time pulling us apart.
I think Paranoia becomes a problem though when we get stuck in that mindset.
And there are plenty of ways to get unstuck.
As well as plenty of ways to live balenced and work with the struggle of being counter to the culture of over-the-counter culture while acknowledging messed up stuff and still working to get to the sweet center of every hard shell.
We can be that owl who gets to the center of a tootsy-pop! haha
what CAN we do?
Great replies........... I think we can all agree that something is dreadfully wrong for planet Earth.
Yesterday I read in paper,
'OUR DYING PLANET:.. 1 in 3 animals lost in past 35 years....Almost a third of the world's wildlife has been lost in the past 35 years, a report reveals"
Reading that, knowing that, fills me with despair. I don't know what to DO about it.
Despair is usually that feeling. We have a problem that we don't know what to do about so we get sad, and sadness can turn into despair.
Now, I don't want you to build am image of me. That I am full of tears, and cannot function etc. I am not. But I am just telling you the feeling I can feel when I think of what our species--and by 'our' I mean the part of the specieis that has lost contact with roots, and feels alienated from nature--is doing to this wonderful diverse Earth, ours, and all other species' home. HOME.
From there where do we go?
What is going to happen?
Have things changed for the good by having feelings 'everythings gonna be alright' in, for example, last 35 years?
I am just trying to be real and not shy away from looking directly at what is happening. ACTUALLY happening.
Accelerated Medicines
Daniel: "Of course, such a deep shift in cultural perspective is a long process -- the first Reformation developed over a few hundred years."
Yet, we accelerate. What once took hundreds of years, or 50 years, or 25 years, now, often, sometimes, possibly, may take 10, 5 or, moments.
Re: set&setting, clinical v. creative, legal v. illegal etc
It seems to me that in "Western" culture the engagement with these substances or plants, began in the fields and forests of Mexico and South America (Gordon Wasson, Richard Evans Schultes etc). Then moved into the laboratory and research/investigation stages (Hofmann, Huxley, Leary etc). Once this research was all sorted out (and synthesized, recognized and realized) - it got out! And people freaked out!
And that freak out of course was the 60's, 70's - the "initiation", the "1st reformation"...
Since that time, the substances, people and plants swirl and grow.
Slowly, these plants/substances began to reassert themselves - through various research, the McKenna brothers started to get their work and voice louder and louder, the UK rave scene grew and grew with LSD and Ecstacy. Meanwhile, Ayahuasca quietly moves into place.
And now I see a mix (similar to this article's image) where lab and forest, clinical and creativity, urban and jungle connect together to form a new picture, one comprehensive, chaotic, crisp and connected; re-formative.
I find it very interesting that things like LSD, Psilocybin, MDMA etc, are (re)asserting themselves or being recognized by and into popular/mainstream/authority culture as the medicines they always have been.
emm
seems like some constructive thinking, yes, the picture comes into focus now, we have the "freak out" of the 60" 70"s, yes i remember listening to the Freak Out album religiously, when it first came out right before my first LSD trip, that Mothers of Invention, Frank Zappa record was my education, it put things into perspective, Frank saw the writing on the wall and he made great spoof of the insanity that passes for civilization.Perhaps ironic that Frank was a "hungry freak" but he never was a "hippie" and he seems to never have taken psychedelics.
So moving right along, my first LSD trip was not, i repeat was not a freak out, It was a very wonderful sweet experience, spent with a high school friend, we came on to the green capsule, and we began laughing, listening to Donovan and some Leonard Cohen, we smiled and smiled, and then we went for a ride in a sports car after we peaked my friend's older brother had let him use his little MG and we drove deep into the night.But yes the late 60's were freaky for sure, most of my trips followed on the first one, no matter how wild they got, i always felt that calm sweet loving place that the first trip was to me.But it did get more freaky as i took LSD in a lot of different places, concerts, parties, at a couple of Love-ins,I ran around the golden gate park, at the time it seemed like my whole world was about the psychedelic experience.
So i put these trips into a kind of experimental poem novel, to show what it was like for a teenager like me in 67 68 when i was a teeange freak out and" psychedelic dungeons poping up on every street"try to imagne that we had to trip without getting busted, and there were the high school bummers of families finding out about their daughters taking acid, and the trip of looking at your father's face melt while you tried to speak to him, and a thousand other weird happenings.OH it was freaky, but it was so creative.
and "one pill makes you smaller......"
So, as far as "popular/mainstream/authority culture" what is this some kind of clever feint or a mea culpa? As if the pharmaceutical companies are suddenly mindful? am i missing something here?
Forest for the Trees
cjmoore: "So, as far as "popular/mainstream/authority culture" what is this some kind of clever feint or a mea culpa? As if the pharmaceutical companies are suddenly mindful? am i missing something here?"
I made no mention of pharmaceutical companies.
I'm referencing these MAPS studies: "... underway in the United States include research on use of psilocybin as a treatment for cluster headaches, and on MDMA (Ecstasy) as a treatment for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, a complex likely to haunt tens of thousands of veterans as they return from the Iraq War."
Who is it that's "suddenly mindful" - well of course it's these plants and substances.
;)
So instead of it being a jolly ol' freak out in hippie land for a few thousand people (not a bad thing really) - these plants, mushrooms and substances are beginning to gain acceptance and recognized as helpful by the gen.pop of mainstream/authority culture (ie CNN, Wall Street, Supreme Court etc), and as something that can help ease the stress of war.
Not too shabby.
Of course that's not to say it's the only thing going or would in any way limit the growth of these amzazingly benevolent plants and mushrooms.
ah yeah
but, we are still in the world where pharmaceutical and drug, all be it any chemical substance, is still subject to the whims of people that control these substances, and one would welcome the use of these substances that have been suppressed for the reasons that control of all substances that are placed in arbitrary catagories that demonize psycho-active use and the fact that the use is not the only aspect of it, the actual chemical effect is not confined to certain benifits that might be a healing to those that might suffer from conditions that are aquired in the most stressful situations like PTSD from war, and use for depression(MDMA) ect.
This is all we are talking about? but where are these drugs going to come from, and what controls are still in place that will allow for the complete rehabilitation of the way these substances have been suppressed?(who will deal with the huge headache and tramatic stress disorder of the whole mind set that suppresses the place the psychedelics point to?) We are sill in the realm of drug companies, politics and drug wars.
And if use for severe problems, is the main concern, then the suppression of the creative use is still hanging over it all.And where did this concern suddenly come from?
yes Maps has made some in roads in cluster headaches, with psilocybin, is this like saying that the small acceptance of this for these health problems, is a foot in the door of perception? and if they keep doing this kind of research that will eventually kick the door open? Is that what where this is going?
or are we only talking about cluster headache bombs?
Think of the (Little) Children
I wouldn't worry so much there captain CJ.
Some tend to feel as though this is all taking forever, but it's not. It's going fast. It's mycelial.
Some tend to feel such anxiety, or perhaps even "pre-traumatic-stress" ha!
But no one is in charge. One has the choice of bowing and accepting and/or conflicting with "authority" - or creating, developing and/or presenting possibilites which makes such perceived power and muddy mind-sets obsolete.
A foot in the door? Kicking the door open? Perhaps.
I see it more so as benevolent things and plants and people overgrowing the gates.
Or, a classic Dennis McKenna description: "Somehow I understood - though no words were involved - that the Banisteriopsis vine was the embodiment of the plant intelligence that embraced and covered the earth," he recalled. At the end of his vision, a voice told him, "You monkeys only think you're running things."
oh geeze
who me worry? nah, i just read a lot of poetry and philosophy, to even begin to speak of those ways that the gate door can be overgrown.I was out in the field doing the quantum strawberry picking, and the voice with the monkey reminder began to jump up and down and toss bananna peels that turned into motherships.
yes the little children, with cluster-stress pre-chaos
Reintegrating psychedelics
Interesting debate here...
I can understand the unease some might feel towards psychedelics reintegrating with clinical psychology. Judging by the state of mental healthcare and Big Pharma capitalism (not to mention any unseemly ulterior motives to the antidepressants epidemic) it would seem like bringing psychedelics into the realm of regulated medicine would degrade and destroy their sacredness, and perhaps be used for equally unseemly purposes.
But I would argue that the opposite is likely to happen, and has happened before -- that psychedelic medicine will instead re-enchant and revolutionize the nature of healing in the Western paradigm. Their wisdom is too great to be contained and manipulated, and those that attempt to do so will either be frustrated at their lack of control (as has happened in the past) and give up, or will themselves be swept up in the experience. I love the story of Ken Kesey's initiation, a guinea pig for the CIA-sponsored LSD experiments on students at Menlo Park in the 60s -- the clinical, sterile, manipulative vibe was in full effect, and the end result was setting off a spark in a potent individual who can be credited with much of the magical hijinx that soon took over America's youth.
I would also point to the groundbreaking work of Dr. Rick Strassman in the early 1990s with DMT. It seems almost fantastic that he would be granted DEA and FDA clearance to administer this ultrapotent psychedelic to human subjects, over a 5 year period at the height of the Drug War. Reading of his accomplishments challenged my conception of the New World Order stranglehold over our culture and government -- it is still possible to achieve amazing, wonderful things within the bounds of legal research and exploration.
Strassman's work is fascinating, ethically pure, and incredibly important -- as is the work of so many of the reserachers currently enjoying legal clearance to perform many other fascinting, important studies using these long-demonized substances. I think many of those conducting these studies know full well the depth of the sacred knowledge that resides in the substances they are working with. And I believe that, if allowed to reintegrate into regulated practice, the psychedlic plants could ultimately heal the sicknesses of modern medicine. Their absence is likely a large part of the reason modern medicine (especially mental health) has been co-opted and maligned, after all.
Creativity and all the other dormant, untapped reserves of the human condition would follow as a matter of course...
-st
The now of psychedelics
(Notice noone talked my question. I am not pressurizin' just noting)
My deep concern is that now more than ever . We need all the help we can get to wake UP!
Not using the most profound ALLIES for such a recovery for compartmentlized 'disorders'.
I mean the IRONY.
The major disorder is what we are all doing to planet Earth and to all the species who need planet Earth like we need it. So I am anti this safe approach from 'professionals' including MAPS .
I am also not happy with MAPS because they test on animals!
I think one of Leary's Two Commandments was not to give humans psychedelics without their permission?
Yet MAPS sees no wrong in doing the same to animals. That is wrong!.
Rick Doblin's response when I protested about this some time back was that they needed to so that science would take them seriously!
So they abuse animals so as to be 'respectable' to science who also abuse animals in their millions!
So YES. We have to be 'heretics'. And challenge this behemoth every which way we can.
I appreciate MAPS for encouraging use of psychedelics on human subjects. But we need much more.
Run Silent, Run Deep
Zezt: "My deep concern is that now more than ever . We need all the help we can get to wake UP!
Not using the most profound ALLIES for such a recovery for compartmentlized 'disorders'. "
So, you're saying that we need all the help we can get, ... just not for those who need help with their "compartmentlized 'disorders'" and not in certain ways, or with certain things...
?
Yes, that is ...ironic. Sounds limiting. Also sounds like exclusivity of some kind.
These substances, whatever you want to call them, from psychedelics to medicines to phanerothymes to entheogens to plants to whatever - engage people in ways they need to be engaged. In other words, they speak to one in one's own language.
If certain populations of people are encountering these things in labs or for clinical disorders, that does not discount them in any way. Nor should it overtly affect your own personal relationship with these things.
To make this mundane world sublime, Take half a gram of phanerothyme - Aldous Huxley
relocate to campfire
challenge authority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drugs and 2012
its this post
Lol
.....you have to wonder.
I couldn't decide.
...if it was maybe it was meant well....if it wasnt, well, there's a prankster in our midst....seems to be the pitfall of being in the public eye.......
I agree that certain drugs
I agree that certain drugs can initially open you up if that's the reason why you take them.
"Beyond the scientific framework, there is compelling anecdotal data on the benefits of psychedelic use for creative processes, intellectual work and personal development. "
Beyond this they can interfere in the process of evolving. The development of one's gifts takes work, drugs are a diversion and may halt or hinder that development that you have naturally by being born human. Utilizing one's body mind spirit complex to get beyond the cultural conditioning releases one from the child/authority myths and allows one to mature individually and independently at one's own pace and insures that you will do it gracefully with absolute integrity.
The 3 year 3month retreat I mentioned was done with no phone and alone as well...I was able to release myself from the judgemental mind and acheived greater states of awareness than Daniel describes in his book 2012.
Meant well: http://zencrystals.blogspot.com/
A
evolving
i don't see anything to support the notion the we just evolve naturaly according to some lexicon of evolving naturaly, unless you happen to be born in Shangrala, or maybe into a family of taoist monks in the deep valley, otherwise you are like everybody else, having to negotiate the currents and tides, the insult onslot of civilized conditioning, sure one can become a zen person and live on a mountain, but down below the world of science, corporate madness, religion, music, art, poetry are whirling through whatever we call evolving.And critiques of books like 2012.
AS far as drugs, i would say that LSD came along and some people were living in a "air-conditioned nightmare" called normal and the LSD was not a panacea but it was a wake up, and it held some kind of prism up to the illusion of the compartmentalised world, too bad that it had to be taken by a lot of teenagers that were or were not just doing it because it was the new thing.But after this is "EVOLUTION" and then you might pick up a book by some mad poet or some philosopher of Other, or a psychologist with Gestalt, or maybe Hunter Thompson will take you to the core of the political world.OR you might come across the three pillars of zen.And if Zen people were in charge of our natural evolution, we would still need constant zen slaps to keep us awake.
who said that development of our gifts did not take work?
Written after my 'retreat'.
THE ARTIST'S CHOICE
INTEGRITY/INSANITY
Elimination of ignorance.
Is art therapy, descriptions of a sick society or predictions of change? All are valid definitions.
Then there are artists who are singlemindedly concerned with truth within themselves and that which would be considered universal.
Non-separatists.
Perhaps they see the problem and are drawing from heart felt insight towards an evolutionary advancement towards wholeness/oneness.
In observing what was done by the Abstract Expressionists in response to two world wars in terms of bringing art to its conclusion in displaying purely black canvases it becomes also the end of an evolutionary mind process unmistakenly seen - the death of art, the death of the spirit of a world culture. Standing in front of a black canvas confronts the viewer with a very uncomfortable situation. A reflection? It's fascinating how art is able to impact on the culture by forcing it to look at what's happening. The message takes time to become absorbed by the masses. One could say it takes time to catch up to a movement created by those who in some cases staked their lives and who have the courage to stand for what they know in the face of all opposition.
Darkness or Enlightenment?
Here we are confronted with a climate which has arrived at the epitome of self-centeredness and almost total individual alienation causing mass suicide, extreme mental anguish, all-pervasive power-based behavior world wide. Artists themselves have become involved in this vicious game.
At this crossroad, elimination of the cause of conflict is to realize ourselves as perfect individuals who are not separate from nature and the universe. Allowing what can be defined as direct sensual contact with reality and devoid of beliefs. Removing the cause and breaking the cycle, not soothing, not describing symptoms, not covering up but crafting an entirely new movement of moving with.
Not looking right or left, using centered all-pervasive awareness, seeing, directly penetrating into whole beyond limited purviews - expansion, touching all things in all ways with no barriers -acceptance.
In this evolutionary process an artist is in the unique position of not taking sides, they can choose to be non-institutional and being free of all cultural bias has the ability to attain true anarchy of the mind which promotes the clarity of their work through a benign justice blind to prejudice expressing unity and balance through art.
This is Creativity, Excitement and Beauty in it's clearest form.
Eliminating egoistic aims, centering, they have the potential to create change universally.
By eliminating cultural indoctrination and letting all bias fall by the wayside the are free and are freeing for others.
Living in the world as part of the struggle they become innovators who can shape and define what is. And within this context they can become undistorted and even impeccable mirrors of the change that is occurring, the change towards sanity.
FROM PURE JOY SPRINGS ALL CREATION, BY JOY IT IS SUSTAINED, TOWARDS JOY IT PROCEEDS AND TO JOY IT RETURNS.
JAO - TAOS 1994
Am not a member of any group or religion. Using the philosophy of non-dual thought can be done on one's own.
the psychic scars of it all and
the shooting stars, art does not pretend sanity, and poets are not always the most balanced people, but i see people that are not artists or poets that are called normal.We can read all the books on psychology, philosophy, art, literature, all the latest plethora of books on quantum this and that.And in the middle of all that we still have the moment to sit down and pen a poem.Or write a manifesto.But JOY is something that is not found in religion and politics.Rather it is something Rumi writes of, or Sri Aurobindo, Zen is practiced, and so on.
And "elimination of ignorance" goes on on many levels, it is a many petaled way."People get weird", said Grace Slick, and she sang of ' Don't you need somebody to love" and the poets and philosophers spoke of love, and reminded us of sanity, in a world of ignorance.
And so we speak of making a unweildy book into a gem, but it is the unweildy that the book seeks bring a light upon.I have a book that is a gem, it breaks every rule, has sentence structure that porfessors will shake their head at, and sounds like it was written on a computer in the wee hours, like it was written on an old typewritter in one mad dash.It will be called insane/integral
hmmmm.....
....I dont want to hurt your feelings or ruffle your feathers but I have to say that using phrases like 'fatal flaw' and 'mental masturbation' came across to me like the product of a judgemental mind.
I thought it was discourteous to use them in critique,even if meant well,especially in a public forum.
Also to suggest three years in a monastery on the basis of a story written a few years ago also seemed condescending to me.Someones personal journey crystallized in a moment of time.....people move on....I'd doubt the writer hadn't by now.
I'm a little surprised you hadn't given him the credit for the possibility of that.
Discernment/Moral Judgement
Moral Judgement is defined as better and worse, greater and inferior, right and wrong. In zen terms these are defined as products of the confused mind.
Daniel freely admits his confusion in his book, I merely suggested an exercise to allow him to face this and eliminate it.
as we already figured out
nothing mere about it
so, therein lies the zen rub
you don't eliminate confusion, as there is no one to say this or that, you can only allow the chaos to find its own order, obviously this is up to each writer, if the writer wants a editor he does not go to a zen temple.
therefore the zen temple does not go to him.
the one whom would presume to speak for coherence, needs to have the eye of a writer/poet, depending on the content of the text, nuance, subtext, food for thought, ect.
reading zen koans are one way to polish the lens.
all thoughtful books are about admiting confusion, unless they are merely for mass comsumption.
maybe you could write a book about how to make it more zen like.
or maybe you will not."It is no odds"
merely saying "products of a confused mind" do not say that the confusion that writing mirrors(if the writing is mindful, has depth of thought, seeks to open up the view, ect.)is then itself a product of some confusion that we must call confusion.Rather we are at once in the middle of confusion, and here is where the zen center finds its point.
Right....
....yeah,you merely suggested an exercise.......after you went to the trouble of calling him a wanker for honestly expressing where he was at.
That's what I found distasteful.
Must be satisfying to be a zen master helping other confused souls to enlightenment.
it's a rap
and now for some really confusing feedback!
a zen moment by pure chance.