Concerning Terence McKenna's "Stoned Apes"

The following outlines findings from inquiry over some years, into "stoned apes." My aim has been solely to discover -- not suppose, speculate or theorize -- the truth about a profound subject of considerable interest; in which "stoned apes" is one micro-tiny thread.
This discussion follows recent pieces in RS about Terence McKenna's legacy and impact, particularly Watkins' incisive inquiry into timewave zero -- its "intellectual Waterloo" as Hanegraaf calls it (Religion and Retributive Logic, Cusack & Hartney: 311). Watkins offered a level of clarity unprecedented in "Terence McKenna studies." More striking was the sheer intellectual integrity and honest credibility of his effort and achievement. These are qualities not always apparent in the exuberantly enthusiastic universe of TM's ideas and theories -- a word I use here in deference to their common representation as such. I first learned of Watkin's "Autopsy" from Letcher's book Shroom. In RS he gave a more definitive discussion, powerfully illuminating the timewave's nature and worth (other than commercial). I heartily applaud Watkins' principled lack of any agenda to support or "debunk" a prior conclusion fondly favored, and his determination to simply find out the truth of a matter, regardless what it should prove to be (Mr. Watkins we got a phone message for you, from Diogenes; he's looking for you).
In many respects my inquiry into "stoned apes" parallels Watkins' approach, and focus on facts, as well as can be established, as basis for understanding; rather than tortuous reasoning or argument from ignorance ("we don't know x, can you prove its NOT true?"). Further, Watkins skillfully utilizes sharp tools in the shed, disciplined expertise in a technical field (math) timewave rests upon. Likewise, no analysis of a supposed theory about evolution can get far without a sound grasp of biology, especially natural selection.
As many will soon feel reading, it pains me to reveal findings that don't dovetail with the bedazzled sentiments Terence McKenna inspired in many. As some know, I can affirm, profound phenomena of consciousness elicited by psilocybin (such as recently verified by Griffiths et al.) are of great interest and importance. But where there is truth there can also be falsehood. The brightest light of reason is capable of casting the deepest, darkest shadows, depending on what it illuminates. Truth is a compelling human interest from which we dare not seek too much escape, especially when facing a hierophany. If truth hurts we may nonetheless be strengthened in the long run, if we are not destroyed by it.
In The Emperor's New Clothes, a spell of social manipulation has been cast by political power, subliminally denying permission to speak the truth about a particular situation. Not only does no one dare tell honestly what their lying eyes reveal, they must profess to see what the script demands; even compete with each other in sheer extravagance of praise for the naked king's fancied, fancy attire. Does Watkins' article signal cracks in a similar spell TM, perhaps the most charismatic and beloved pied piper in recent memory, capably cast upon his subjects? Maybe time will tell.
Prelude: my first intimation
The bicentennial year had scarcely rung in when a new book showed up at 'head shops' across the fruited plain. Now legendary, Psilocybin: Magic Mushroom Growers Guide by Oss and Oeric detailed a method for home cultivation of Psilocybe cubensis (AKA Stropharia cubensis). Among several such books published in that era, this one was distinguished by a bizarre preface, disconnected from anything to do with how to grow fungi. Its author wrote the mushroom was the seat of an extraterrestrial intelligence, which had told him: "I am old, older than thought in your species ..."
At the time I shrugged this off as dismal nonsense, and wondered vaguely what it was doing there. It purported to be about the mushrooms effects, but posed a perplexing inconsistency with both research (e.g., Grof, Masters & Houston etc.) and word from the street. This minor blip on the radar signaled my first inkling of what we now know as the work of Terence McKenna.
Years later I noted a striking parallel, for popular psychedelic interest, between this strange preface, and accounts by 'contactees' for UFO-minded audiences. The best-known case is probably that of George Adamski, who claimed an extraterrestrial intelligence contacted him, giving him portentous messages to relay to an astonished world. This struck me after reading J. Vallee's Messengers of Deception, a book I recommend to anyone trying to fathom the enigma not merely of TM, but his enshrinement as a folk hero in contemporary psychedelic subculture as well.
Contact
I gave the matter no further thought till 1978, when my eye lit upon a brochure advertising books, including Oss and Oeric. Its promo blurb had words I realized could only refer to the preface: "includes some spacey science fiction." I wondered if this reflected inside information. Had Oss or Oeric told the bookseller the preface was fictional, written and included for entertainment, "added value?" (Maybe he told them he has to warrantee his merchandise fit for sale, factually described?)
It was time for me to write Oss and Oeric and ask about this, straight up. I considered if I received an answer such as "yes the preface was just to entertain, sci-fi fantasy or humor," nothing suspect there, my question would be well rested. But if I got any other type reply -- perhaps not so simple, depending. A practical joker may not wish to spoil the fun. The whole idea of a prank is to "game" or fool -- some of the people all of the time, or all the people some of the time. Insisting with a straight face, when confronted: "no, really its true!" -- or "could be true!" -- even as the audience laughs, is part of a grand 'tall tale' tradition. The spirit of blarney can be in good fun, but innocence can be an act. On trial for livestock rustling, Hermes put the jury of Mt. Olympus in stitches with his "innocent" routine: "I didn't steal those sheep, I couldn't have; its impossible -- you see, I don't even know what sheep are!" But his brazen clowning did more than amuse. It cleverly undermined the purpose of the hearing, subverting jurors' ability to even take the proceedings seriously, much less return a guilty verdict for this loveable rogue.
A minor twist (half-twist?) ensued. Scarcely had I mailed my "Dear Oss and Oeric" letter then I read, their names were pseudonyms (Ott and Bigwood, 1978, Teonanacatl, p. 121). Was my face red, having written them neither knowing nor even suspecting! What kind of fool was I?
In January 1979 I received a friendly, one-page typed reply letter, saying -- the preface was in earnest! -- "The tendency of the psilocybin trance to personify itself in the form of little elf-like beings suggested to us the POSSIBILITY the mushroom provides access to intelligently inhabited dimensions ..." etc. It ended on an invitational -- or, considering strategies of indoctrination, I might say recruitmental -- note: "If you've had any experiences that would tend to support these ideas, we'd be interested in hearing about them." It was signed: Oss.
(Vallee reproduces one of Marshall Applewhite's invitations pre-qualifying or targeting prospective recruits: "If you've ever entertained the idea that there might be a ..." etc. Vallee's efforts to direct attention to issues for broader society of cultism and thought control fell largely on deaf ears - some of which may have been opened 18 years after his book, with the 1997 mass suicide of Applewhite's cult.)
A final note about the "Oss" letter: it featured a P.S. directing my attention for further information: "I'm enclosing a flier for a book that discusses some of these ideas in greater depth." Indeed, a sheet was included advertising a book I'd not heard of, The Invisible Landscape by Terence and Dennis McKenna (which I soon borrowed from a library and read).
This is how the name Terence McKenna first came to my attention. Of course I did not yet realize he was author, not only of the book hawked in the flier accompanying the letter, but also the letter itself. When it came out years later that "Oss and Oeric" were the brothers McKenna, two and two put themselves together. But back then it didn't dawn on me an appearance had been staged, of one author, the pseudonymous "Oss," recommending a book written by others (McKenna and McKenna) -- as if there were some broader basis, in writings of others than just "Oss," for the peculiar ideas of such exclusive interest to him.
Enter the Stoned Apes
In 1992 I was initially excited to learn of a new book, Food of the Gods, ostensibly about psilocybin mushrooms and their significance, a subject that had received little recent attention. I eagerly delved into its pages, my curiosity piquing. At the time I was in grad study for mycology at University of Florida. I'd already gotten my Masters in anthropology at Western Michigan, specializing in shamanism and ethnobotany. So I had some fairly extensive, related background study under my belt.
As I read Food I grew troubled. It opened my eyes for the first time to the wider range of TM's reflections and theorizing from his experiences tripping; including "stoned apes," his now famous -- or infamous, depending on one's perspective -- "theory" of how psilocybin mushrooms, eaten by ancestral hominids in Africa, catalyzed the very evolution of Homo sapiens.
From my studies I was familiar with the fossil record relating to human evolution. As such I was struck by TM's relative lack of citation to any of the paleoanthropological evidence informing our understanding of human origins. To me this lack of referral to the evidence (which proves complex, with many details awaiting clarification) stuck out like a sore thumb. I also realized general readers, without above-average knowledge of the subject, might not notice anything amiss, especially given TM's skills as a gifted writer.
Misconstrued attempts upon evolution are nothing new historically, or unique to "stoned apes." But they've come mainly from biblical literalism, with its insistence upon a young earth. Manipulation and misuse of evolutionary science and evidence has increased in recent decades, and concerns have been expressed about the ramifications. I've been studying the wider sociocultural context and ideological aspects of this apparent power struggle for the soul of truth, and what constitutes credible basis for claims upon it, for some time. The Center for Theology and Natural Science published one of my reports (Whether Evolution is Fact: The Terms of a Non-Scientific Debate). Another has been posted online by the Metanexus Institute.
In "stoned apes" TM crafted a markedly idiosyncratic variation on a familiar theme: warped theorizing about human origins, in audacious defiance of scientific standards but as if pretending to be scientific. A recent example from the ideological right is Intelligent Design. It concealed its origins in religious concerns (as found in the discovery phase of the Dover, PA trial) by exploiting scientific concepts and data. Another well-known instance is 'scientific creationism' (an ungainly oxymoron), as distinct from 'biblical creationism.' There is nothing novel in ideologically driven efforts to challenge, and hopefully subvert, at least in a naive audience's mind, "conventional" understanding especially as based in scientific perspective. The novelty of McKenna's entry in this category was that it came from the counterculture rather than old-time religion -- from us, not them.
Engaging "stoned apes"
Inquiry into "stoned apes" runs into a surprising split among celebrants about its proper context for appreciation and how it should be taken, which poses an obstruction for interpretation. Some disapprove if "stoned apes" is taken seriously, excusing it from scientific critique by defining it as narrative art. Others object that its NOT taken seriously -- specifically, by the scientific "establishment." A considerable problem for engaging "stoned apes," beyond scientific issues, is this difference among enthusiasts as to what framework it rightly belongs in, and thus what kind of comment on it (especially if less than enthusiastic) is acceptable. There seems to be no proper entrance, no right way it can be approached. This evokes a recent observation by M. Ball in RS: "Ultimately Terence brought us deep and abiding confusion."
Another reflection of this 'confusion obstacle' is a shifting focus in which TM presented "stoned apes," as if he changed his mind over time, or preferred not to commit (keep his options open), or perhaps just couldn't decide whether he was talking about origin of a species, of human consciousness, or of culture. Whichever of these emphases is tried, one easy ploy for "stoned apes" defenders is to simply move the goal posts, neutralize discussion, keep a moving target with no fixed coordinates to train sights on. It seems a bit devious, almost recalling Br'er Fox's cunning creation the 'tar baby.' Lay a hand on it and the trap is sprung -- you're mired, caught.
Reflection here beckons other questions; of basic scout concepts like honesty and fairness, intentions, qualities of character in society and individuals; of standards, expectations of self and other that pattern our social and personal relations (especially in a narcissistic culture); ultimately to clarification versus confusion of values, and our susceptibility as individuals to social influences of group approval or disapproval; questions that can only be noted in passing, as signposts of what lies beyond, looking deeply between the lines.
(Of contacteeism J. Vallee noted: ""The social, historical and political consequences of the spreading belief ... are real, no matter how ludicrous and bizarre they may appear. In fact, the more ludicrous and bizarre ... the more effective they are as subliminal seduction and as other forms of psychological control. The absurdity ... is not a superficial logical mistake. It may be the key to their function ...the confusion ... may have been put there deliberately to achieve certain results. One of these results has been to keep scientists away..." p. 102)
For discussion purposes -- and stepping carefully around any confusion about what the phrase "stoned apes" expresses or implies -- I consider it here as presented in Food of the Gods (first edition of which I have), addressing the evolution of our species and outlining the basic idea.
Faced with scientific issues of "stoned apes," many fans assert that viewing it as a real attempt at theory is invalid and misconstrued even if McKenna seemingly presented it thus. A frequent rebuttal from this camp to criticism on any scientific basis is: "You missed the point!" One might as well "debunk" Santa Claus, in effect trampling the yuletide joy of innocent children, without actually informing anyone of anything they don't already know. This form of apologetics has an advantage. Placing "stoned apes" on whimsical ground shields it from dismissal by effectively rendering scientific criticism categorically irrelevant, moot. No disagreement here; as whimsy it would be of no notice for science.
But fans who loyally defend "stoned apes" as bona fide theory, insisting it should be seriously investigated, lament its neglect by scientists, sometimes bitterly. They often attribute lack of scientific regard for it, glibly, to how narrow-minded ("dualistic") scientists are -- i.e., transparent prejudicial stereotyping. Insisting "stoned apes" is real theory not poetry or fairy tale offers an unexpectedly convenient soapbox for propaganda about how benighted and backward "conventional" science is. It's a "hurray TM, boo science" gag. A few years ago, Wikipedia's entry for TM (which seemingly reflects ongoing tampering to keep a properly celebratory, uncritical tone) stated "stoned apes" has "been largely ignored by the very scientists whose research could possibly substantiate it." The picture thus painted is one of science in default, refusing to look through Galileo's telescope as it were, a contemptible traitor to its own mission.
Casting "stoned apes" as a potentially tenable theory may be more consistent with how TM presented it (taken at face value) but its in deeper quicksand. Conceptualizing it as fantasy or story-booking exempts it from scientific issues (which prove dire, even fatal). But the idea it "is too a real theory" allows it no such escape clause, leaving its flank exposed. Investigation by "the very scientists whose research could possibly substantiate it" might be the last thing fans who cling to more grandiose interpretation with theoretical ambitions, should ever want. Why? There are two major reasons:
One has to do with problems in McKenna's comprehension of how evolution occurs. Selective processes are not immediately obvious in some respects, even a bit subtle, with crucial nuances easily misunderstood. For "stoned apes" this alone proves deadly because an argument, for whatever logic it holds, is only as good as the information and understanding that informs it.
Just the facts, ma'am
The other problem concerns merest fact; especially one upon which "stoned apes" is largely founded. I refer to something we all know about the effects of psilocybin, discovered by research of R. Fischer, R. M. Hill and colleagues. Namely, psilocybin in low doses increases visual acuity. But where did we learn about this intriguing low-dose effect of psilocybin? Not from reading technical journals. We found out because it was made famous by TM, who cited it to Fischer and Hill. He inferred this enhancement would, logically, increase the success of hunters. This heightened visual acuity is the foundation of "stoned apes" in terms not of logical speculation or "what iffing," but actual scientific research, reported findings about psilocybin's effects.
TM surrounded this visual enhancement effect with supposition, a chain of "if b, then maybe c, in which case maybe also d, whereupon perhaps ...." (such 'double iffing' is known as 'begging the question'). He figured (a) psilocybin mushrooms were growing where our ancestral hominids roamed, (b) they ate the mushrooms (c), went hunting under their effect (d), brought home more game due to their enhanced visual acuity (e), won more mates and bred more successfully, so (f) the tripping hominids prevailed in the struggle for existence, out-competing the non-trippers, thus evolving into us. A curious insistence sometimes interjects here, that the word "possibly" be added at each step; the rationale being, it didn't matter to TM whether we were convinced, only that we consider it as possible. In any case, TM argued this enhanced acuity "would have been" adaptive for the tripping hominids he imagined, driving evolution. And why not, doesn't it all make sense?
It doesn't, but that comes under the first problem, of reasoning from error. Bigger trouble here lies with TM claiming Fischer and associates reported this 'enhanced visual perception' in the first place; because -- it's untrue. He misrepresented their work. Yes, they published studies about visual perception -- perception, not acuity -- as affected by psilocybin, in terms of various specific parameters. Not visual acuity, unfortunately.
Nor have I found that Fischer et al. reported any advantages for evolutionary fitness in effects of psilocybin; neither in articles TM specifically cited nor any of their others I've read. The only point I've found, concerning any possible adaptive significance for psilocybin's effects on visual perception, is in "Induction and Extinction of Psilocybin Induced Transformation of Visual Space" (R. Fischer and R.M. Hill, 1973, Pharmakopsychiat. 6: 258-263):
"There is a 'natural' tendency to misjudge the position of the visual as compared to the gravitational vertical. A 160 µg/kg psilocybin-induced accentuation of this misjudgment ... is reported. Psilocybin ... consistently increases the natural misjudgment of the AVV." (Apparent Vertical Visual) Here's the payoff: "At its worst, such disorientation may be compared to a 'jammed computer' state, a condition which MAY NOT BE CONDUCIVE TO THE SURVIVAL OF THE ORGANISM" (p. 263; caps added for emphasis).
Sometimes if we squint hard enough, we can make things look however we like. I've seen under-skilled, over-eager magic mushroom hunters pick a specimen, pinch it, see some darkening, squint a bit, and pronounce it blue -- when no such color has appeared. Wishful thinking plus power of imagination can incur self-deception, with varying fallout from harmless, to other. Are there any clues to such a process at work in TM's 'enhanced visual acuity' or was he merely a crass however amiable liar?
Considering all relevant evidence, I find the latter, uncharitable interpretation does not hold, compared to one more humanely empathetic in light of the human condition: suffering (dukkha in Pali), particularly in some of its deeper, more intangible, little-understood aspects, as manifest in TM's odyssey. It seems he was called by sirens of self-deception powered by fond wishes, and fell prey. The way he did this relative to ‘enhanced visual acuity' is exhibited, in its specifics, in Food of the Gods, pages 24-25.
On page 24 TM notes: Fischer, Hill et al. (1970) found psilocybin improved subjects' performance in detecting "the moment skewed lines became parallel." Next page, he refers to this as improved "edge detection" (a parameter for computer image analysis; not perceptual psychology as far as I know); and calls psilocybin "chemical binoculars." Here he speaks of: "the effect that Fischer noted: small amounts of psilocybin... impart a noticeable increase in visual acuity ..." (p. 25). That's distinctly misleading; Fischer noted no such thing. But we can at least see how TM fabulated the ‘fact,' of research saying psilocybin improves eyesight - by stepwise exaggeration of a specific, much less sensational finding ("Myth and legend often contain an ingredient of fact, Captain" -- Mr. Spock).
My results aside, I think the authors TM cited would be best qualified to comment on his use of their work. I've not reached Fischer, but I‘ve contacted Hill. He confirms they didn't report nor even test visual acuity; any claim along such lines would be "entirely spurious," he advised.
But knowing the truth leads to an unsettling perspective, of the extent to which this claim has gone unquestioned, and become accepted as factual, true ("confusion embraced" as M. Ball cited). It has become installed in the foundation of a misinformed understanding surrounding a subject of considerable interest - one arguably more deserving of clarification than mystification. But, how can it be that so many who know psilocybin's effects directly, personally -- and would therefore be able if not likely, one would think, to know what they've experienced -- fail to take pause at this, or compare the 'fact' against the evidence of their own senses? (Hint: as we know or should know by now, heightened suggestibility is a finding well confirmed by research on effects of psilocybin and similar drugs.)
Ripples of misinformation
IFC recently aired an entertaining film, KNOW YOUR MUSHROOMS, about an annual mushroom celebration event in Telluride, CO, featuring clips of TM (as "Writer and Visionary"). One scene reflects the hold this factoid, singularly promoted by TM, has taken in popularly-misinformed circles, as a proven finding about psilocybin (on account of which it might have been the trigger of our species very evolution!). Organizer Art Goodtimes says: "Terence McKenna talks about mushrooms as having been catalyst for human consciousness. And he has a whole theory of this ... it turns out in low dose, Psilocybe increases visual acuity." (He goes on to summarize TM's argument proceeding from this: "In hunter-gatherer society if you got better eye sight, you hunt better, you're selected for advancement ..."). I wonder how many people are now learning of psilocybin's enhancement of eyesight for the first time, from seeing this film -- a disconcerting tribute to TM's influence; with us, perhaps increasing.
Goodtimes cites another TM "fact" claim about psilocybin, also embedded in the fallacious structure of his "stoned apes" argument: "It turns out, you eat more of those mushrooms, you get kind of horny. And if you get kind of horny you have more kids. So here you are, a better hunter having more kids." I'm not aware TM bothered citing any literature in connection with this 'fact' - somewhat more titillating than 'enhanced visual acuity.' Nor do I find supposed aphrodisiac properties verified in various sources, especially research literature and review.
How it really works
Even if psilocybin did enhance visual acuity however, or make you more "horny," such effects could not play a role in selective processes along lines TM argued. Why? Beyond false facts lies a general problem of fallacious reasoning from misconceptions about evolutionary processes. Such misunderstanding is not uncommon, TM and his audience hold no monopoly on it.
In this light, suppose this attention-grabbing 'horny' claim were true. "Horniness" neither produces children, nor success in competition for mates. Just ask males of a sexually dimorphic species like lions, who must fight each other tooth fang and claw in a run-off that ends in only one having breeding privileges, the rest left to console each other, out of luck. They can be as "horny" as they want, it makes no difference whatsoever for chances of their genes passing into the next generation. The predicted winner is the bigger, more powerful male, with thick mane -- not "horniest" (that's irrelevant). For possible adaptive advantage, 'visual acuity' enhancement seems less nonsensical, by comparison.
But it's nonsense still, because of how evolution actually occurs. In favoring adaptive traits, it's the genome selection operates on, across generations in a reproducing population. If an individual carrying whatever gene reproduces, he or she serves as a means for its transmission to the next generation. Biological evolution = change, to any degree, from one generation to the next, in proportions of GENES in a population. To my knowledge TM never proposed a gene for "eat psilocybin" in the hominids who in his fanciful scenario ate mushrooms, vs. those who did not. Genes may render some particular food(s) indigestible, but no gene governs that we eat mushrooms or don't. Without a gene that could be selected if adaptive, there's nothing to inherit from eating fungi; thus no toehold for selection, regardless how many offspring.
Variations due not due to genes but to some environmental input, even if advantageous, don't drive biological evolution. A textbook example: Hungry giraffes craning and straining to reach leaves on higher tree branches, as lower branches are stripped by grazing, might stretch their necks -- but any young they bear would show no difference in neck length for it. This reflects the error of Lamarck, who attempted an explanation for evolution before Darwin. Lamarck didn't understand, the only variations that can be passed on are those based in genes. Never mind false facts; the reasoning behind "stoned apes" is based in antiquated Lamarckian ideas, obsolete since Darwin. One could pump iron, go from a 98 lb weakling to a Greek god build; but sons born before or after the transformation do not thereby inherit a difference in physique.
Note: Environmental stimuli can turn genes on or off, without change in gene sequence, by 'epigenetic' processes (e.g., methylation of DNA bases). Some of TM's more educated fans have heard of this, and a few stake last-ditch hopes on it to salvage "stoned apes" as theory; but mainly for purposes of keeping issue alive it seems. I've learned of other "creative" embroideries of "stoned apes" too, citing other research in confused fashion. Nor are the purposes or interests involved clear in some cases, raising further issues such as Vallee cites. We might distinguish misinformation (TM's error) from disinformation. Either way, I've noticed various initiatives to renovate and maintain TM's empty castle built on the Planet of the Stoned Apes sand, continuing apace. There, it seems reason has become something of a cart, placed before the horse of doctrines or conclusions its forced to draw; with rationality deposed by its dubious twin, rationalization; to serve -- what interests exactly, with what ramifications?
TM's case seems to have been one of a deeply, desperately split psyche -- a very human situation. To date, I think he was his own principle mark, fooling others secondarily to a primary self-deceptive wish, to convince himself of sensational, psychotic-like ideas he knew better than to credit deep down, but which he found rapturously exhilarating, infatuating his imagination beyond his power of reason to resist. His remarkable cultural appeal may originate in a precisely equivalent conflict collectively. That "such an unjustifiable theory (has) survived so long, but also attracted so much interest and attention" (as Watkins says of timewave) spotlights a greater wish or need to believe certain ‘possibilities' even if we know better, underlying the ardent "embrace of confusion."
Thus far, on impression: ideas that psychedelics were a vital factor in something as momentous as our species' evolutionary origin likely express an intuition, from direct experience of their effects, of some profound importance or significance they hold; but of unknown, enigmatic nature, teasing the intellect. At some level "stoned apes" seems an unconscious or half-hearted effort to answer this intuition, and thus resolve the provocation it poses. For fans the greatest tribute to TM's legacy might lie in helping this intuition reach solid ground, by finding real answers to it, if possible, able to hold up under serious consideration.
Having cited Vallee, I must mention another source of urgent value in this context (although not high school level reading): R. Tarnas, Passion of the Western Mind, Chapter 18. Tarnas offers an inclusive, brilliantly integrated framework invaluable for understanding of the human condition in depth, especially in our times -- a master key to our "embrace of confusion," and many other things. It has been conveniently posted online.
The horizon of comprehension extends beyond analyses, to decisions about what matters. Pursuit of true understanding must be kenotic, based in compassion, informed by inclusive, accepting, affirming values. It must seek to understand Dorothy's anguish, and ours, at being unable to fly over the rainbow - when a voice inside demands this be, or by right should be, within our ability. But such endeavor risks reinforcing the confusion, and must beware of unwittingly strengthening the chronic angst thus inflicted; indeed, with clear resolve of putting it to rest, if possible; of finding our way out of the dark bitter wood in which Dante was lost; like Odysseus trying to find his way home - a place there's no other like, as Dorothy finally found. Not that everything there is all fine or perfect either. Thus far, there seems no end to reality's ongoing confrontation with itself, in us.
Image by geishabot, courtesy of Creative Commons license.
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Comments
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CF, about the ‘TM, Compelling Story Teller” theme:
In my article I cite the weird split in his fan base over his rap, what it is, exactly; or is supposed to be (and who’s supposing?); “theory,” “philosophy” or “poetry” or – ? As you know if you've read it.
In context, I find it a sort of ruse or diversion tactic. As if to neutralize or distract from points my article raises; or any critical pov. It resembles a ploy to insulate the ‘bard’ from issue, place his word above and beyond. After all, if his rap is just harmless story-telling – its nothing but a question of taste; for which there’s famously “no accounting.” Either you like it or you don’t. Discussion closed, can’t be opened! (Paraphrase: “Stupid scientists, TM’s trix are for kids”)
I find the "story teller" bit doesn’t address (but affirms) issue and info in my article -- not that it tries to. To the contrary, I find it passively argues that there is, can be, no such thing as an 'issue.' It is above such.
That’s the ‘message’ I notice. And likewise, seems like it doesn't put itself in those words. I have to translate. Instead it tries "getting away with it" -- to fly below the radar – which sets off my early warning: stealth maneuver detected. It scans as sneak aggression, trying to tiptoe past whatever perimeter of critical thought or intelligence.
I hear this ‘story teller’ note sounded around the TM campfire soo often. It came to mind recently, watching an old episode of RIFLEMAN.
Called STRANGER AT NIGHT, it features a quirky vagabond charmer come to town -- a traveling ‘jack of all trades,’ and talented ‘story teller.’ He regales folks (they're bored). Gets them all entertained and enlivened, feeling excited and good (especially about themselves!).
He wraps his artful stories of high adventure and wild doings in gentle empty flatteries, appeals to vanity, sweet nothings. What’s not to like? How could anyone question telling ‘believe it or not’ stories? Obviously, anyone who doesn’t or can’t enjoy them as such, “for what they are” – must be a sourpuss.
Of course, there’s a problem. He’s nice, he’s funny, he gets people liking him like crazy – but, he’s actually NOT A GOOD GUY. When a dead body is found (foul play), nobody accuses nor even suspects, a loveable rogue.
But the situation demands a suspect. Who's available?Conveniently, some drifter nobody knows has shown up -- wrong place wrong time. They’re going to convict him. Its not just a matter of our con artist getting away with something either. There are issues to others created. Like, injustice. Like, this innocent guy they're going to hang (as it appears).
Our charmer has everyone liking him so much, nobody can even conceive he has anything bad inside of him. His acting skill is enough to fool everybody. You should their faces when truth comes out (as it does). Apart from the “charming bad guy” a story theme I admire is ‘price of knowledge’ and how con art places innocence in harm’s way – lightly touched in the finale, between father and son:
Mark: Pa, he didn’t fight pirates after all, did he?
Lucas: Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t.
Mark: (wistful) He told such wonderful stories; about sailing ships and finding pearls.
Lucas: You liked him, didn’t you?
Mark: Yeah.
Lucas: Well you just remember the good things he told you.
Mark: Let me tell you about the time he was sailing off the coast of Chile, and ... (fade out, cue end credits)
Fair to say Terrence was not
Entheogens= Adaptogens
http://www.etnopsico.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=76
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xof-t2cAob4
http://www.amazon.com/Animals-Psychedelics-Natural-Instinct-Consciousnes...
"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson
I'll check out the books
I'll check out the books where you claim these inconsistancies with Terence's interpretations are, thanks.
Daruma though makes some excellent points..there was 0 science in the article...the citings were interesting, but a tiny detail that can be interpreted many many ways. Also, ANYONE claiming to do 'science' and citing Martin W. bullshitBall's articles is suspect. You clearly do not understand McKenna if you bought his baloney, and seem to be prone to hyppersuggestion yourself. Those articles are filled with such an unbelievable amount of inaccuracies and bullshit that if you can't see through that joke of a charlatan (who charges 200$ for psychedelic experiences), then its no wonder you would take such a narrow position on the psilocybin-human theory. It has to do with much more than just eye acuity or horniness- eat more mushrooms and see...You don't seem to have an inkling of knowledge about the broad scope of the psychedelic experience and the research that has been done in these areas in regards to recent discoveries and uncovering of ancient psychedelic use. Maybe we didn't eat mushrooms, i don't know. But our brain chemistry IS DRUGS, and the idea that plants/food have not had an effect on it is like saying a space ship can run on diesel fuel
http://leftinthedark.org.uk/
^ this
mysymbiostory
http://jaguarnaut.org/?p=2979
^ Some art work, inspired by Terence's theory...
"teasing the intellect..."
get used to it!
(I change my genes at least once a week)
<3
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"This needs an editorial veto or something."
To disagree with what someone else says is one thing. To call for silencing of expression, censorship or "veto" -- for the offense of "telling it like it is" (to borrow value of 1960's psychedelia) -- is entirely another.
Better idea, I suggest: freedom of speech and liberation of the human spirit. No binding and gagging of anyone's view -- if someone else thinks silencing other views is in order, let them argue for that. Let the record reflect that, let it be so written.
Please know, I take neither offense nor surprise in animosity expressed by some reply posters. I've found heat of aggression, not light of reason, is more rule than exception in the subculture influenced so ardently by the spell TM cast, when doctrines are cited as such and questioned (such as the sanctity of TM's word).
To me, angry comments illustrate the impact and nature of TM celebration (as cult of personality, basically). Fanaticism is a concern no matter what its occasion, with good reason I suggest.
Here's an interesting TM quote. No wonder "stoned apes" -- for all its costumery as some theory, or entertaining 'fractured fairy tale' -- proves to be a 'propaganda generator.' If we take TM at his word, it was crafted that way on purpose, to promote dubious rhetoric about science:
M2: Why did you write FOOD OF THE GODS?TM: I felt if I could ... get drugs insinuated into human origins, then I would cast doubt on the whole paradigm of Western Civilization ... If you could convince people that drugs were responsible for the emergence of large brain size and language, then you could completely re-cast the argument ... So it was consciously propaganda, although ... I believe its going to be hard to knock down.(http://deoxy.org/t_mondo2.htm)
There it is, chapter and verse, in black and white. Stoned apes is no 'once upon a time' Cinderella story, nor is it a theory, pretense aside. TM admits (or is it a boast?) "stoned apes" was and is propaganda, as intended all along, pure and simple.
Its function as such is reflected in replies here.If there were any good answers to questions raised in this light -- if honest, respectable rebuttal were possible -- what need would there be to call for suppression of findings such as reported above? Why would anyone have to demand silencing a voice saying: "the king is buck naked, what's this weird talk of his beautiful robes?"
I suggest more investigation is needed, more discussion -- not less and less -- of social issues and subversive aspects of the excited interest in "stoned apes" and etc. Are we witnessing an emerging cult-like sociocultural phenomenon? Whose amp goes up to eleven as it were?
There is conscientious interest in the psychedelic potential, i.e the human potential itself -- without axes to grind one way or the other.I advocate intellectual freedom of thought and its expression.
I see RS has taken some lip here too, looks like. Anyone offended by my findings should know -- they are strictly my own. They may not reflect the editorial view of RS management or staff. RS deserves kudos -- considering jeers inflicted on it by some of its readers; for simply allowing freedom of discussion here.
Interesting cultural situation we witness here, not without some concerns for what it portends. But the heat of emotion expressed here suggests to me -- our planet must still be turning around, nor have we lost our humanity. I celebrate such indications, all things considered.
a cry against censorship includes... a form of censorship?
Umm, urr... I'm not a McKenna Koolaid drinker, but... in your citation of what you are presenting as a self-incriminating McKenna quote, you have deliberately edited out a very important part with ellipses, which significantly changes it's implications.
The full quote is ...
"So it was consciously propaganda, although I believe all that and I believe it's going to be hard to knock down."
How is it you saw it necessary to remove the bit where he says "I believe all that"?
Your version leaves the implication that Stoned Ape Theory was a deliberate lie fueled by an unrelated sociopolitical agenda, and not the evangelizing of a personally held conclusion.
Whatever anyone thinks about Stoned Ape... such practices call into question the veracity of your counter argument.
Quote -
"If there were any good answers to questions raised in this light -- if honest, respectable rebuttal were possible -- what need would there be to call for suppression of findings such as reported above?"
Or, what need to play "turn it all around"? As if ... Classic method of disinfo, lame and transparent. And so old, so moldy, so - lame.
Among my fave sources, super-smart UFO investigator -- with exquisite background and training -- James Carrion:
http://followthemagicthread.blogspot.com/2009/08/into-lions-den.html
'veracity' ... good word
Ellipses are used to delete irrelevant or superfluous words from a quote, in citation. They mean 'no need to include' not 'necessary to remove.' At least you know the word, I see, if not its meaning.
Likewise I've never seen ellipses equated with censorship before. New one on me (my dictionary and thesaurus too). Talk about 'ingression of novelty' -- or a stretch too far. Hamstring pull (or snap).
Ok you're not jumping for joy, but I suggest no use protesting, or being aggressive ('road rage') Its on record (interview), TM said he wrote FOOD OF THE GODS as "consciously propaganda."
A gambler in me bets he said that and went: oops, that was a bit more candid than I needed to be. I'm sure he dare himself however, but not to tip his hand like that. I don't know anywhere he repeated that mistake (although I welcome refs of course). Impression so far, seems he was a lot more careful after that.
Of course, nobody (including the interviewers who elicited that from him) ever told him "Geez, did you really mean what you said?" But in the moment, looks to me like he did hasten to cover his tracks, quickly add: "oh, but I believe it all, every word, so don't get the wrong idea mkay?" Yes - as I gather we both know.
Here's a radical new idea, maybe a mind blower beyond comprehension of some -- a person saying "i believe, I believe" could be telling the truth or not, and I wonder sometimes. If you don't ok. I consider such might be true, untrue, both or neither, or whatever.
Newsflash: Any credulity you put in somebody's "oh but I believe I believe" talk is yours. Not mine or somebody else's (hello?). Especially in such a fishy context, yikes. Same with your unwillingness to question and consider critically. The gullibility you enact is neither gulling, nor binding on me. Save it ...
Right on
Please, keep writing and keep thinking. Someone calling for an edit, or why something should or should not be on a certain site is closed minded. Thank you very much for your thoughts about what TM has said and the MANY other things that you expanded upon. I was hoping NOT to find people like I usually come across on other blogs, articles, etc., but they are here as well. Thanks again. I am going to purchase The Invisible Landscapes. I appreciate your mind.
Much appreciable ...
Where seldom is heard an encouraging word ... thanks, I'm obliged. I replied further to your other post, p 5. In case its of interest also - I wonder if you've seen, maybe would like to if not (?):
www.scribd.com/theendoftheline/d/70517115-Akers-Et-Al-2011-Psilocybe-His...
(Thanks again)
To me, angry comments
To me, angry comments illustrate the impact and nature of TM celebration (as cult of personality, basically). Fanaticism is a concern no matter what its occasion, with good reason I suggest.
Yes of course!!
glitch
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A call for censorship - now redacted, hm
If a call for censorship doesn't succeed - what happens? What kind of reflection does such a gesture, unrequited, leave?
Would it prompt a would-be censor to cover-up mode - act like it never happened - undo the context of issues raised, implicitly, by such repressive impulses?
Poster Kosmo (p. 5) remarks with frustration on his attempt to follow this discussion, with so many threads of connection severed. In the interest of preserving meaning - unsevering a thread cut - let the record reflect the issue, verbatim, as originally posed (before redaction):
Couldn't believe
Submitted by the9file on Tue, 03/29/2011 - 05:58.
This really doesn't belong here. I have no problem with intelligent probing, but this is low-quality writing. Anything that addresses ideas as complex as McKenna's should be approached with a better understanding of the subject than it appears Mr. Akers bothered to establish before composing this blunder.
This needs an editorial veto or something.
Not an Up-to-Date Analysis
First of all, visual acuity and increased sexual activity are not the hallmarks of psilocybin usage. Rather, creative thought, increased abstract intelligence, and an energy boost are.
Secondly, it is true McKenna did not have a perfect theory, and that it was somewhat Lamarckian. Mushrooms (probably) don't change your DNA. But you must view this in Darwinian terms. Theoretically, natural selection would favor the DNA of those monkeys that made best use of the mushrooms. Thus, the better their brains made use of them, the better their DNA would be, the smarter their offspring would be, and the cycle repeats. This would be totally "random" and thus Darwinian.
I'm not saying this theory is a proven fact, but it IS viable, and it IS testable. Simply give our closest relatives reasonable dosages of mushrooms and see if they benefit. No other test or evidence will substitute.
This has all been said before, and long ago: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/758779
I appreciate your attempt to bring meaningful discussion to this topic. Yet for something that starts out claiming to be very scientific, it sure reads like a long rant before we get to any evidence. I hate to say it, but just like Martin Ball, you come across as demeaning and bitter and insulting. Next time stick to the facts and theories and spare us the diatribe on how stupid we all are.
a reply to Mr. Akers...
I don't object to this article because of it's "findings", I object to this article because it isn't a real investigation of McKenna's ideas. I'm totally fine with criticism and engagement, but you failed to address McKenna's thoughts beyond shallow and superficial probing. I'm not a dogmatist, but it disturbs me when complex concepts are approached from such a reductive perspective in a curated publication such as Reality Sandwich. I'm not interested in censorship, just standards.
It's too bad if you found my comments offensive or emotional, I didn't feel the need to write a detailed rebuttal because other commenters (technoshaman88, gushtunkinflupped, Daruma, etc.) already did great job of that. You claim a desire for discussion, but you totally ignored the specific, articulate points people have made in response to your writing. So please! Discuss!
So far you seem more interested in pretending to be a victim of rigid fundamentalists eager to suppress human expression. In your article and your comment you have painted a picture of McKenna supporters as "cult-like" and ideologically inflexible. That's propaganda. One of McKenna's major tenets is ideological flexibility, and I'm sure most of the people here critical of your writing are eager to be swayed by intelligent thought. The problem is, they have a greater understanding of these ideas than you have demonstrated, and they recognize that you haven't engaged them in a meaningful way. "PLEASE, try actually confronting the theory on the grounds of the arguments that comprise it..."
You're right, more investigation is needed. We want discussion that does these notions justice. Your claim of "findings" is a joke. This article sucks because your trying to authoritatively dismiss a big idea without even addressing it. It's very misleading, and it would be a shame if an article like this prevented someone from discovering the true depth and richness of McKenna's work. We're not trying to attack you, we just want a real discussion. How about you?
Exactly per the 1990's Scientific Creationist script - awesome!
"I don't object to evolution because I'm religious - although its true I'm a bible christian. But that has nothing to do with it. I object to evolution because the evidence its supposedly based on doesn't support it, at all. Despite what all these scientists claim, evolution is poor science." "I'm not a bible dogmatist, but it does disturb me when ..." "And we want a real discussion, not what passes for science in their textbooks. These scientists and their claims of findings are a joke." A familiar hew and cry, almost verbatim -- just switch out a couple words and - voila.
Jung or Junk
Acknowledging your post
An interesting comment, for its reflection of human worth, an apparently genuine search inspired by things you mention, from your "sighting" event, to psychedelic effects.
I've never seen a display like you mention (I almost used the word UFO, but you didn't call it that). Mysticomimesis in breathtaking immediacy and vivid clarity -- and a wide range of consciousness phenomenology -- that's another matter.
Such extraordinary experience can't take the place of intensive study in various disciplines over a period of decades (what it takes to achieve a foundation solid and broad enough to help derive the questions raised by such). But, neither can book-larnin' take the place of direct personal insight into it from the kind of anomalous experience you touch on.
A priori and a posteriori knowledge -- neither by itself can shed 360 degree light on such a complex, multi-faceted zone of inquiry.
Indeed, "core phenomena" of psychedelic effects are what inspire and sustain piqued interest in them. There is a healthy side and a vital potential there, especially insofar as real human interest, desire to know, curiosity are involved -- the fire under the ass that has driven our species entire intellectual adventure over its long history, the entire legacy of thought and understanding.
The most important recent research on this, I'd think, is that of Griffiths and associates at Johns Hopkins. This core phenomenon is one purely of human experience at its transcendent, outer limits -- a vast, massive, monumentally deep subject for investigation. It raises questions we can't hope to answer though, at this stage. We need to study it, in what light we can, to reach our next objectives for understanding.
The flip side ("sick soul" to borrow a phrase from VARIETIES OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE) brings us to a secondary peripheral phenomenon -- which is sociocultural, and wraps around the core. I trust you have some familiarity with William James, and I've found his theoretical approach to be the most resilient and enlightening for study and analysis here.
Native societies with traditional use of mushrooms etc display a more integrated, non-pathological culture or "secondary phenomenon."
There's a healthy side in our society too. We've had many contributions from it over the years. But by various indications (on parade here, some), it has eclipsed or encroached upon the healthier potential -- apparently a progressive condition. Cultism grows and spreads. The cult-like focus of pop psychedlia has advanced quite a bit in the past two decades especially. Reply posts here are rich in data testifying to this, a glance is all it takes to show. Compare commentary here with, say, the 1960's or 1970's discussions -- compare the books and so on.
At least one poster here referred to TM 'weaving' tales. Indeed, web-weaving, spin. The purpose of a web is to entangle and trap, to ensnare. Its interesting to observe the hostility and belligerence that comes out from under the mask of pretend "theorizing" -- at the darkness of its lair being disturbed by a candle lit (doesn't take much candlepower for us to see, with such darkness). Groovy trip, wow.
I recall the Moody Blues, ON THE THRESHOLD OF A DREAM: "It riles them to think that you perceive the web they weave ... keep on thinking free." D'ya think?
Fascinating in the TM Mondo interview: not a single word of notice, or interest, or concern, about "golly, if you made up that stoned apes bs as propaganda, does that mean you're not real concerned about what is true or what is not? Does that mean that we shouldn't really be worried about whether we're fooling ourselves or anyone else ... as long as we are focused like a laser on our prize, of toppling "the paradigm"?
Most lies, to succeed, depend on not being detected as such. Imagine one that appeals so strongly to a wish-fulfillment so powerful that the deceiver is at complete liberty to tell his targets: "This is a lie I'm telling you, but it doesn't matter because I know you'll believe it any way" (The Talosians sure fooled the Enterprise crew, as Dr. Boyce noted, with "the perfect illusion, they gave us exactly what we wanted to see -- human beings surviving the crash for years, with dignity, their decency and humanity intact.")
In the culture that has arisen now, not only is nobody asking key questions -- permission to do any such thing is covertly denied by a kind of faux authority of in-group influence and power. Not that it can stop anyone, especially if they have little concern about some fanged backlash, or being spat upon verbally, denounced and insulted and ... the raw data of reply posts here, basically.
It seems some weird unwritten, subliminal injunction is in force -- all praise the trip master. Any violation triggers personal attack, seething belligerence and denunciation, every ploy of group power, disapproval from ostracism to defamation of character. Its conspicuous right here before our eyes in plain view, these very interesting reply posts (not yours, I see).
Yes, we're really not supposed to quite understand what's going on when we're being sprayed with silken lines, or someone's trying to fool us. To confuse is indeed the purpose of certain practices and doings. But who's doing the supposing?
I appreciate the reflection in your post. There's no faking that, I don't know what people are thinking, who don't or maybe can't comprehend that.
Its not that I agree with what you say, in general or specific, its the spirit in which you speak that I would like to acknowledge. It comes off real, I don't get the sense you have "something to prove" or whatever. No power ambition focus in your remarks. This is refreshing amid a culture of alienation and "virulence" (another word I borrow from a poster here) pretending to be some 'evolution of consciousness' or ... whatever.
How to regard, with what sense of irony- ? that a primary phenomenon of profound human, spiritual significance, "consciousness expanding" compounds -- and that is what they are (Griffiths et alia, and a lot of other solid research and discussion) -- should be the occasion for a secondary sociocultural pathology that straitjackets minds, constricting awareness down to ... the type of "thought" and "perspective" expressed by most of the reply posts here.
Thanks for your post.
what's happening here
hahah
thanks for this article
I disagree with most of what Akers have to say, but I found enriching to discover what like-minded people think about TM ideas. In the same vein that he believes that McKenna misses some points, himself completely ignores the core of the theory... that's how deeply the psychedelic experience can change and shape our mind. It was a breeze to read, compared to the pitiful bash done previously by Martin Ball.
I started reading the book years ago (never finished, but someday I will) and I always wanted to read a debate like this one. Hope everyone can hold their horses, for this comment discussion is gold :)
Thanks for thanking RS for ....
Well, you titled your post: "thanks for this article" and it was brought to you by RS. So I assume. I'm just the guy what wrote it, I don't have editorial decision authority -- hats off to this e-zine.
A salute to the hope you express. One to be appreciated I think, regardless of disagreement. Might ask about one in fact (but first ...).
My hope is: no dismay, zero, if anybody has not held their horses, not fulfilled your hope. Another smartly noted: everyone goes apesh%t at any criticism of TM's word.
Yes, quite. I've been noticing, its a little disturbing. Doing point-by-point comparisons, result not encouraging: fanatic-like, cult-like. Most familiar analogies here: hardline "angry" fundamentalism (ID/sci-crea and "stoned apes" are cousins in surprising ways, I've cited a few); and contactee cultism. However we regard whatever fanatics or zealots -- the issues are real -- for society, the rest of us. I'm not worried "what about the fundies" I'm interested in keeping the science class a science class, not a propaganda broadcast.
I encourage anyone (mind needed) to consider "stories in the news" involving our wonderfully proliferating whack cults on one hand; and the religious right on the other -- for an idea of issues and social impact.
I appreciate your "comment discussion gold" and I agree if I may -- speaking as one who had to defend freedom of expression a couple times now -- first against a guy talking "this article doesn't belong here, editorial veto this" crap.
Sadly, I find some of the value not in thoughts expressed, but seeming lack thereof And presence of what holds place instead. But the freedom here gives voice and spotlight to what passes for discussion, when it comes to "stoned apes" or general TM effect as subcultural phenomenon (of some conscientious reasonable concern -- and to my awareness not noted, almost entirely unrecognized-unrealized as such).
There are people who I understand enjoy TMs writing, aren't driven to some kind of extreme, aren't fanatics. They can discuss, same like if Hemingway or Lovecraft novel which can get passionate of course; but its not like news footage of the fundies and science teachers at the school board, that's another level. And if you look at the discussion here, which is indeed gold ... well.
Really I just wanted to tip hat to your call for calming horses, and valuing discussion and thanking RS for this.
If you like to discuss: may I ask per your words "psychedelic experience can change and shape our mind."
To make sure, I assume you mean "shape" in psychological sense, like the shape of our thought or experience, etc. -- am I correct?
And likewise, distinguishing "shape of mind" from shape of brain. The brain - as opposed to the mind - is what we see when we open the skull.
Following your point of critique -- TM did indeed try to claim psilocybin as a mutagen, causing change not just in the mind but the brain. As in the Mondo interview "if I could convince people that drugs were responsible for the big brain size." And (p. 24 Food of the Gods) he's talking about it causing gene mutations that caused the brain to embiggen. I don't know how well aware, history of propaganda about psychedelics as mutagens -?
I don't want to go into it, and why I might disagree with you, unless you want -- and in that case if you can advise, you're not using the words "mind" and "brain" as synonyms (some people do that, a little frustrating, invites confusion).
My thoughts
About 1.8 million years ago Homo erectus, one of the better known ancestors of humans, emerged and developed what is known as the Acheulean tool tradition. Although Homo erectus had a cranial capacity close to the lower range of modern human and may have had many human-like social characteristics, the tools never become more complex than simple scrapers, choppers, and stone axes. They change little over the next million and a half years.
Mozart wrote his symphony No. 41 in about two weeks from late July to early August in 1788. Sir George Grove declared it “the greatest orchestral work of the world which preceded the French Revolution.” The symphony, nicknamed the Jupiter symphony, was his last symphonic work and one of three symphonies composed in a short time frame in the summer of that year. The full arrangement has parts for eight instruments and spans over a hundred pages.
How did we get from Homo erectus to Mozart?
Anatomically modern humans begin to appear in the fossil record about 200 thousand years ago and evidence of culture, such things as body decoration and burial practices, appear in the record by 160 thousand years ago. There is a good chance that the beginnings of human culture extend much further back than that but the evidence has been lost or is yet undiscovered.
What drove the evolution of Homo sapiens was not magic mushrooms or monoliths. It was a feedback process between increasing brain size/neural complexity and an expanding capability for communication. By communication, I mean not just language but the entire range of human communication including art, music, myth, and the entire social framework that makes us human. Entheogens, although perhaps used accidentally or deliberately, really played no major role in this process until shamanism makes its appearance as cultural force in the broader communication and cultural framework. We cannot be sure when that exactly occurred . As early as 80 thousand years ago and certainly by 20-30 thousand years ago, there is evidence of shamanism in cave paintings and rock drawings. At that point, entheogens play their role in human evolution not as primary drivers of physical evolution directly but as players in the human communication framework by allowing us to consciously manipulate mental states and explore new pathways of knowledge.
The question of the role of entheogens in our future is the more interesting topic than their role in our past. Is it possible that humans now might be as primitive to future humans as Homo erectus was to Mozart?
The key question is not where we came from and how we got here but where we are going.
"The key question is ..." you're RIGHT ON THE MONEY (wtf?)
Remarkably thoughtful, jimcross. You touch key points. What a contrast from the mostly Jerry Springer “do you still beat your wife” focus of intellectual “inquiry" in replies here. Bravo, laurels to you.
What a compelling, key question you raise: what does the future (not the past!) hold for this. Standing ovation. That’s real inquiry, not an incrediblesimulation.
And need we say, answer -- and responsibility for such? -- lies in our hands. What shall it be then, if we have say? Thanks for bringing refreshing, human intelligence, insight and thought -- true ingredients of credible discussion, commanding genuine interest.
Issues are profound, you seem to have some clear sense of this. I’ve mentioned Tarnas; if you’ve not checked it out you may well like to (I think you’d be rewarded, on clear impression of your interest and conscientious sensibility):
www.gaiamind.com/Tarnas.html
(If you’re conversant with Ken Wilber’s ‘dialectic of progress’ you may find it relates closely with what Tarnas calls the archetypal dialectic)
The “damage control” five alarm “fire drill” parade here, another matter but also of interest. It evokes knights of knee -- all nervous needy, demanding tribute. And of course, brandishing ominous threat, to any who deny them their shrubbery, flouting their authority and power, fail to pay proper tribute – they will say “knee!”
Maybe this is an object lesson: what happens when hallucinogens are played with, like video games (“Trip Master”?), as fun “mind-blowing”recreational adventure, or a circus. ARCHAIC REVIVAL (p. 3): "Liftup the tent edge and scoot inside where there is light and action. Strike upthe band. The elf clowns of hyperspace are already juggling in the center ring.Hurry! Hurry!" PT Barnum would be proud, I bet.
Rather opposite of what we see in native cultures where psilocybin etc is surrounded and sanctified by tradition. As grandparents everywhere have admonished, when warranted: “Kids, put that down, stop playing with that right now before you get hurt. Yes I’m sure you’re having fun, but that's not a toy. Its all fun, until someone loses an eye.”
I suggest psilocybin and other such compounds are not toys, nor are they well used as such. Unfortunately a cultural pattern in our society has emerged -- much as Humpty Dumpty fell, perhaps.
This is one reason I ask – are we witnessing the emergence of a fundamentally cult-like social phenomenon? Time has come.
In this light, a glaring consistency is evident in replies posted here. Alot is coming out of woodwork into plain view, front and center. We can perhaps decode “stoned apes” (as well as “machine elves” and that entire kit and kaboodle of unfunny jabberwocky) pretty well as: gild the shrine, all praise the Trip Master, bow down before his greatness, hallowed be his name -- and woe unto anyone who ... (you get the picture, I think).
Two more links, in case you don’t know them; Bebergal, an astute observer of contemporary psychedelic subculture. He writes for intelligent audience, this is not of the scene, by the scene, for the scene. He asks things like: “...is there a future for psychedelics outside of Phish concerts? And can this be achieved when, alongside those doing serious research, there are those who believe themselves to be reincarnations of Quetzalcoatl?”
http://www.maps.org/media/view/will_harvard_drop_acid_again/
http://therevealer.org/archives/5262
Replies here mostly suggest (intentionally or not) the answer may well be no. I don’t think guru figurehead hero worship cultism, thriving on doctrine and indoctrination can very well contribute to any positive outcome. It has been a disaster in general over recent decades for any sane, reasonable version ofhope for the psychedelic potential. The damage done has been extensive, and any attempt to broach it elicits a mob response ... as I see in reply posts here, pretty consistent.
"... the entire paradigm of Western Civilization" is historic advance of knowledge and integrated understanding, the legacy of our species. But understanding is key (henceTarnas). To comprehend the impulses driving this power struggle for the soul of truth, and what represents credible basis for any claim to it, is crucial for any attempt to address it. The scientific revolution has indeed triggered a profound angst and confusion, a metaphysical tsunami, the sense of which is traumatic, even threatening sanity. I don’t know if you’re a fan, but I like how H.P. Lovecraft said it:
“We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity... The sciences, each straining in its own direction,have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together of disparate knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.” (I compare “new dark age” Lovecraft cites with another, more rosey-wistful phrase: “archaic revival”).
Geocentrism means "center" (position)
Probably a minor point of clarification but -- what is the explanation for this constant chronic chaotic broadcast of confusion, with volume on eleven. From my understanding it is the position of the earth in the cosmos -- wrongly conceived as the center of the universe -- that Galileo helped address. Maybe you've confused geocentrism with "flat earth" concept, not really linked to it specifically. Indeed, it seems many people were aware or had some notion, back to ancient times, from sailors' observations, that the world was not flat. And there may still be people today who think it is ... especially in a cultural context where science, reason, learning, real inquiry -- or even the very idea of any such -- is sneered at by a fashionably overbearing "we know better" attitude.
Why Why Why
A general reply to "rabid" posters:
To aggrieved “attack” posters, fang-bearers, etc. (you know who you are, I'm not going to "name names" -- much less blogpuppet avatars).
To each, what I would say is the same, no different: I’m going to tell you how I feel about your commentary:
I feel you’re acting out, you're offended and on warpath -- dramatizing how enraged, infuriated you are; throwing tantrum -- as if it achieves something or makes some point.
I feel in general, your meaning, boiled down, is manipulation; ‘button-pushing’ trying get a reaction, as if to try and antagonize, basically -- perhaps wishing my offense or displeasure. Familiar routine. Elementary.
Please know I’m not objecting, nor do I complain, I’m just reading your comments, telling you how I feel about your commentary. I do not criticize, let the record be clear on that. I’m only noting and giving you reply as a personal statement.
Don’t misunderstand. Your freedom is yours, I do not question your right. I’ve already defended freedom of expression for one of you, disgracefully, I feel, calling for mine be revoked, “editorial veto” (quite a statement, the values scale reflected -- especially with all the groovy “I’m evolved” peace and blessing vibey crap it cloaks in; but fanaticism is the springboard of fascist repression; history sheds light on this, for those not doomed to repeat it)
Just so we understand -- if you choose to act out, try to get some kind of personality contest or something going -- you put me in a position where I can only point out – that’s what I feel you’re doing; and note you do have that option, as well as other choices open to you. For example, if there is some specific point you don’t agree with, instead of diving into insults and all that because you’re unhappy (like that’s the main thing, what’s important in any of this) you could explain why you disagree; for what reason, on what grounds. Just an example of options.
Consequences might differ too, depending on what you elect – something to consider perhaps. On childish acting out choice, all I can do is tell you about I feel about it. Different choice might allow different reply.
I’m not saying you should do one thing or another. I got no dog in the hunt. I’m just noting, based on how I feel about your comments, your choice and options. I’m in no position to advise. If I were -- seems to me you might fidget and fuss at what I say a little less, and take stock of your words your behavior. For what I say or do can’t affect your present or future much. But what you say or do will, I wager, make or break it.
Obviously there is a values gap here. As long as you don’t have to endure the sight or sound of anything that does not honor your sacred cow, maybe you just don’t give a rats patootie about yourself. I don't know. But in that case, why should anyone else?
If you don’t like my article, you’re not compelled to act out in elementary school recess style; but you can do that if that is your choice. You’re under no burden one way or another.
Nobody here is stopping anybody from any discussion here, its wide open. That’s my message to you broadcasting on attack wavelength and seeking to receive on same. Choice is, change channel or keep it locked, choice is all yours and you are the one who lives with it nobody else.
The Psilosopher Wears No Clothes
Brawls such as this fascinate me, in this case, primarily because it did not have to occur. I can imagine this essay, presented differently, not incurring the same wrathful disdain. Brian, in the same spirit in which you responded to your hackled hecklers, permit me to offer you 300 micrograms of editorial feedback about your own commentary:
In the first place, none of your points are terribly refutable, but then, neither are they terribly important. Nonetheless, you have presented them as if they are the damnable nail in a coffin full of McKenna’s books and bootleg lectures. So you dug a letter out of your desk from 1979, written by a charismatic stoner, which you present in prosecutorial fashion forever preserved in evidentiary plastic. You are surprised the brothers McKenna chose to pseudonymously publish an underground drug cookbook. You imagine that Terence referring you to another patronymous work of his was some cult-casting act of diabolical manipulation rather than simple discretion on the part of a man engaged in an illegal enterprise.
Brian, to paraphrase your own words, this is button-pushing, trying to get a reaction, antagonism. It betrays the spirit in which you chose to approach your essay, namely, condescending and mean. And this, it seems to me, is what has hackled your commentators—just as you knew it would—judging from the axe you have long ground on amazon’s review forums as well. I realize it is virtually impossible to regard the suggestion that you may be projecting your own movie, but please consider the possibility that it is (also) you who are tossing tantrums and warpaths, Brian.
The question, then, is why? Good god, man, why? To be certain, there is much to be annoyed at in the latter-day counterculture, but really, who gives a mycelial shit? It’s fringe culture, after all, a hyper-enthusiastic domain of undeveloped ideas, wild misconceptions, amateur mycology, cannabinated conversation, pole-vaulting conclusions, sophomoric theorizing, etc. It’s like charging around Burning Man insisting upon everyone’s attention that none of it is sustainable. We know, dude, but there’s nonetheless something to be experienced that can’t be found elsewhere, just like there’s something to be had in regarding McKenna’s psilosophy that can’t be found elsewhere either. (Psilosophy, yes, I thought I’d coined the term till I discovered it already existed and means--yes it does--a sham philosopher. So there you are…)
Perhaps you have your own ideas that never found an enthusiastic audience. Perhaps you resent the popularity of Terence, and this is what motivates you to troll around his amazon review forums for the past five years and labor over penniless essays discrediting his ideas rather than developing your own. Perhaps in posting your conclusive review of his book, you cannot accept that others still disagree with your assessment. Or perhaps you are simply stimulated by pointless debate in online forums. I know you style yourself as the child snickering and pointing at the emperor’s wang, the light of reason haloing your head, but the crucial distinction of course is that everyone else immediately saw what the child saw as well, while that has obviously not occurred here. But the child wasn’t condescending, and perhaps that makes all the difference.
Respectfully~
Tony V
www.tonyvigorito.com
Tone
Tone is a definite important point to bring up here, Tony, and thank you - take a look, for example, at how Richard Dawkin's fanatical fist-waving does absolutely nothing to convince his intended (?) audience of anything he says. The problem with so many otherwise rational thinkers is that the TRULY rational argument recognizes and adapts itself to the intended audience...and yet this is a blind spot for anyone who would pretend to exalt the fact over the messiness of human affect...failing to recognize our own motives and presentation.
Michael GarfieldI do want to say here, though, that some of his points ARE refutable, if you check my comment below.
..:: Art - Music - Writing ::..
"Imagination is our greatest natural resource."
science usually works the other way
Your quote: "if someone cites some neuropharmacological evidence which says the stoned ape theory is false, then i will believe it."
The burden of proof is on the person proposing the theory not the other way around. This is particularly the case in the absense of any evidence at all that it even might be true.
Evolution is our friend, guys.
On Christ
Trance Running
agree and disagree
We ran after prey because we were hungry and meat tastes good not because we ate some mushrooms and were in a trance.
However, there may be some merit to the idea of a connection between the runner's high evolving as an adaptation for the hunt and our ability to utilize entheogens.
Studying Shamanism in western michigan??? WHAT??
You truly do not understand TM's message and have not listened to enough lectures.
so sad to see such huge amount of time wasted writing this article about nothing!
we are in a global crisis! Terrence only wanted the best for all us to move forward into a organic beautiful future of plants and people and peace,
why are you wasting our time with this silly hate writing!also
sounds like you have never actually taken mushrooms and have never learned anything from the planet itself!
please use your time for more positive productive purposes, terence is your friend. listen to more TM podcasts.
"we are told we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world." -McKenna
You completely dodged my
hmm, the weave
I thought this was about notions of how we evolved, theories, based on ideas and science.However is the response, i get this attack not only on Terence's "stoned Ape" but on his whole persona.When i use the word "weave" I am thinking of a tapestry of thought, that Terence wove his life work into.And it was turned into a spider web of deception.What happened to the comparisons of approach.It seems that in order to accept the possible other arguments in regards as to how this all went down, how it evolved, mushrooms and or some other brain factors in the environment, we also have to believe that Terence was some kind of spider that would snare us, and entangle us into his web of deception, and slight of hand. Terence Mckenna for all his long range theories(far fetched?)is a gad fly for all great controversy, and not just to create that but because when it comes to the issue of drugs it comes with the territory.I totally did did not expect you to agree, as I was not certain with what you would not agree with here, but I find you have a skill at ferreting out some aspects, as I have said in a previous post about Jung and ancient Egypt, that I am not so much attempting to make any points as such, but to speak to the Ur Sprach, as a kind of voice of the Goddess in the Mysteries of Eleusis, to toss up the balls of the Aeon, so Terence's favorite philosopher Heraclitus can shine a logos fire on the whole enterprise.And i hope to now not also be called a spider of sideshows that would wind around your mind like a weave of winding sheets, soas to mummify your mind into some "stranger then you can suppose."
I did not say UFO, what I experienced that night with my friends, was something that we saw that was an object or phenomenon, it was not the classic saucer shape or an orb, and it did not move, it just was there, it was probably a moon lit night, and that is why we could see it against the night sky amid the stars.And this brings out the issue, what is reality and what is fiction.If i use the word weave, I am not thinking spider web, if i say consciousness am i thinking William James "stream of consciousness"and or James Joyce's "stream of consciousness".As Terence was fond of quoting Joyce, and also William James "One great blooming buzzing confusion"Wearatonceconfounded and confronted, confused and converging.It takes great skill to come up with a "entanglement" that reflects an entangled human conundrum.Communication in this internet webmedium, is all that and more.I began writing with a second hand typewriter, Terence came along before I ever put my hand to a mouse.Did cave people eat mushrooms and invent the fire of the imagination? Or was it a parellel event, did they see things in the sky, like some teenagers did in 1967? Is 1967 a great novelty point,(timewave) in the Joycian Jamesian universe
Whoever seeks a "brawl" (good word, accurate)
Interesting, posters further and still wanting to power struggle, passionately desirous. I decline the invite. Not interested. Some will argue with you, if that's what you want. You'll find participants, deal them in. Many are willing, perhaps even eager, to bang heads against each others' stone walls. There are others who'll take angry cues, exchange hostilities -- better luck there I suggest.
I prefer, simply keep phone lines open. But please note: verbal urine streams, flinging words like boogers, flipping them like middle fingers -- that's not discussion, even remotely. By general policy (and on grounds of sense) I'm not party to that, so no thank you. I don't join in.
About the rage vented, the directed (yet strangely unfocused) hostility: these very quantities are precisely the flipside of indoctrination. Its no different with devout creationists. That's a good comparison here, since they also want to rip off human evolution from science.
Raging, verbally vicious TMist zealotry is an old friend of mine, I'm well acquainted. How do you think I discovered the cultural pattern here, reading about it in some book? To the best of my knowledge and information, there's no book discussing this cult-like phenomenon, as such. Maybe there needs to be, the more I learn.
Yes, its a slim line separating "stoned apes" from your biblical buddies, the sci-creas and IDs. They're not trippers, but they're pretty beatific, all around among their own, all reverent and spiritual. They are plenty blessed, just ask them they'll tell you.
But wow they can snap, get real angry, even hostile, at their kids taught "godless" evolution in public schools by these atheistic evil science teacher types! They are noble goodniks fighting forces of satan and badness (they don't call it "the paradigm of Western Civ" but ... just swap out the words, then a little sand paper, voila).
In this aggressive mode, much like the present raging posers, they start acting out, turn up the heat, and dim the light. They hear wrong word (like "natural selection") they start banging drum, making all kinds of noise. They don't want anyone else to hear such "wrong" word -- might put somebody wise, informed. Their purpose is to make sure nothing like that goes on. Highly charged intolerance of opposing views is a pillar of their mindset exactly as with the cult-like in general (and specific, as in the present case). Heckler's veto, shout down, disrupt ...
Some stoop to insinuations and smears, personal attacks, sarcasm and -- all the usual button pushing "lets' see if we can make them mad" routines. They'll call someone like me "Mr Academic Darwinist" -- just like a poster here I see. The parallels are amazing.
Main difference from sci-crea/ID: with TMism, psychedelics instead of some deity "in the beginning" -- as the magic wand here, the mysterious insisted upon "catalyst" or whatever. (Much as moving ET intelligence from a saucer to a mushroom, for the "alien entity" contactee trope ... is but a slight edit from the Adamski thing)
The "angry creationist" strategy is, maybe they can intimidate school principles or teachers, fearing for their jobs or employment in local district, elected offices etc, hired positions etc. The power-emotion "make angry-threatening noise" campaigns target that fear. This totalitarian logic of this approach to manipulation is: hit hard, put the fear of job and career consequence in them, cow these school boards and admins into giving them their soapbox in science class, to "teach the controversy" (not the science, but they don't add those words).
Their "lesson" for science class is: there's some big secret controversy the scientists won't talk about -- a whole 'nother theory ("is too scientific").
But -- fear and intimidation haven't worked all that well, they've found. It has mostly been noticed as such, and elicited responses (NCSE, many others). Sooooo. .. they've been developing these other tactics in recent decades. ID being the ultimate latest. And like the cartoon charlatans/hoaxers in your basic SCOOBY DOO episode, where the deceit is unmasked by the end -- "they might have gotten away with it too, if not for those meddling kids!"
Instead of anger or attempts to intimidate, threatening what'll happen "if don't put this disclaimer in that science text book teaching that godless theory" -- they act all calm and concerned. This strategy involves composure and a semblance of reasonable. In this script, they have some genuine issue, of this other theory (their propaganda exploiting evolution, their equivalent of "stoned apes").
And reading their lines: they're all concerned, good citizens, its being suppressed or censored, excluded from science texts -- on some atheist conspiracy whose cover they're gonna blow. Yeah, they're only trying to address this issue in proper fashion, conscientiously, in the name of education and their children and ... a better world. A great act, beats hell out of me why they didn't go to Hollywood with it.
ID seems the sneakiest Trojan Horse of that camp yet. But boy it got its head handed to it in Dover, what the discovery phase turned up. Bravo for investigations. Real ones I mean -- that want to find out without biasing the results one way or the other in advance. Not fake ones that pretend they're gonna do that, but actually design to "control" the answer, bias the question per their purposes.
The "reasonable" act and script is evident, in fact transparent (about like a cheap lace curtain held up to the light), in some attack posts here. One ammo line from sci-crea camp, which I learned about while professoring in Oklahoma (a great field lab for study of this) is: "I don't object to evolution because I'm a Christian (though that is true) -- the problem is its poor science, on the evidence, the fossils actually don't support evolution, its not a real explanation ..." Pretty well-crafted piece of talk for its purposes, good line of script, easy to recite.
I see the same ploy posted here repeatedly, some almost verbatim, for example: "I don't object to this article because of it's 'findings,' I object to this article because it isn't a real investigation of McKenna's ideas."
Folks, people -- go ahead and say all that stuff, chatter it away. Same thing I tell other ideologues and cons, the ID people talking their version of it. Its a free world, and you are sovereign, autonomous beings who make your own decisions, choose your own words, express yourselves.
I know this bursts bubbles (but if you weren't so stuck on blowing them constantly ....); but just saying stuff doesn't make it true, can't. Words can have power, and they absolutely have potential, almost limitless. But not to the point where we can now say "abracadabra" put a pig in lingerie -- and now its a beautiful sexy lady. Words don't work that way. What a world this would be if they did !! Can you imagine?
(if you've had some spell cast on you with words, it may be hard to understand, that might explain some of what I see here ... that is the nature of "thought control")
If we could say: "deception is honesty" and wham, it becomes true -- nothing could have any meaning anymore. Nothing any of us might say could express anything, it would be all noise with no possibility of signal.
The double speak and Orwellian aspects on parade in these "raging bull" posts need not be gone into. Doctrine, indoctrination, thought control and all of that -- aery basic aspects of cults and, in this case, an apparently -- conspicuously -- cult-like sociocultural phenomenon with some aspects looking pretty aggressive and ugly, content normally concealed beneath a thin disguise of "fascinating theorizing" and "brilliance" and so partnership culture betterness than ... anyone who doesn't swallow it hook, line and sinker.
snarl and snap froth
Whew! You’re a windy sort of fellow, aren’t you? I’d like to track some sort of continuity in your responses, but I’m beginning to suspect this is a software designed to simply ramble random and red herring.
But I’m kidding. It’s clear that you’re having a marvelous time at this, perhaps it gives temporary meaning to an otherwise bleak existence, like a gamer’s adrenal spike. But still, tomorrow or the shortly thereafter, this forum will fade, and then where will you be? What will you have accomplished? Will you have convinced anyone of anything, or will you have merely reassured yourself of what you already understood in the first place? Isn’t communication the goal here?
Rise to the occasion, Brian. Either you are the author of a thoughtful essay or you are a common internet troll. People are responding to what you have written, and if you choose to participate at all, it’s up to you to moderate their responses in such a way as to encourage fruitful discussion, not descend to their depths. Snarl and snap froth is hardly soothed by vaunt and mock snoot.
You’re a mycologist, apparently, and I’d like to hear what you think about, aside from gnashing your teeth over the half-baked notions of an entertaining stoner.
Respectfully~
Tony V
Author of Nine Kinds of Naked
and Just a Couple of Days
www.tonyvigorito.com
Me belly rumblin'
1,440 auspicious raindrops on your parched fields for comedic timing, fine sir. While I do not seek to align with any particular side of the polemic--appreciating what prophetically framed and scientifically salient points I can follow from all manner of stoned apes and windy fellows--I can certainly attest to having a fine time immersing my mind in this most robust collection of comments (though occasionally I do wish for a more point-to-point, consciously diplomatic and augmentative style of rapport).
Just as my attention was being seriously challenged by the author's preceding comment, your first paragraph verily created in me an extended and hearty outburst of genuine, deep, and powerfully restorative laughter. I am indebted and refortified to read on.
And then I realized this was page 1 of 5...
I guess we're all lucky that Its about the journey, not the destination.
"... though occasionally I ..."
"... though occasionally I do wish for a more point-to-point, consciously diplomatic and augmentative style of rapport."
Jahsee, your wish is empathetically understandable. One might wonder about such prospects, based on 'writing on the wall' here. Its not as if nobody has made the attempt. Problem is, to the extent they have, they've been treated as 'enemy.' Its like tigers eating their young in this circus.
We have childishly enraged 'button-pushers' who've issued a pile-on call, to battle stations. Seems one on one is useless, all hands are needed to help in the all-out attack - strength in numbers. Anyone the 'bugle blowers' perceive as not joining in the war effort to outnumber the redoubtable target (your humble narrator) -- may become a prospective target. Some of the most virulent attacks by TMies are upon their own - whose embrace of doctrines, and dependence on group acceptance is taken for granted, it would seem. Of course, manipulative aggressors can't silence informed, conscientious voices. But anyone under the "inspired" spell is bidden to "take the hint" -- there is a war on. They'd better declare themselves, which side they're on, clearly -- unless they'd like to be next target?
It makes no difference how positive/enthused a poster is for TM® "inspiration." The attack strategy I observe here depends on artful staging of scene, crafting a story - Dr. Akers won't talk to anyone -- as if there's no difference between alienating and relating; as if attack or insult is a way to converse, or offers dialogue possibilities. The entire pretense goes kablooie, topples like a house of cards if anyone addresses divergent views in a non-hostile civility. That is fertile ground for conversation.
I don't have to set limits on that, hell, I can relate to it. Whether you and I agree about x or y isn't such a big deal to me; its aggression and manipulation that I don't accept, and deny seat at my table (huffing and puffing is not conversation). But, if a someone posts what I find a civil reasonable tone, and I'm engaged, reply in kind -- right in front of everyone - the attackers have now only isolated themselves. Their strategy, flimsy and lame as it is, backfires on them. And thus their panic mounts, the desperation intensifies --driving them to further psychopathic extremes.
So you'd have to have guts, 'courage of conviction' and clear intent -- true grit, anyone would -- to make any such move. And nobody should do that, I suggest, without being prepared, by reading the "writing on the wall" here.
Any civil attitude about difference in perspectives across the "inspiration gap" -- is considered thought crime, along with difference itself. None of it is grounds for discussion, and any failure to hold that line will be dealt with. Folks here better take the hint (goes the warning): any treatment of difference otherwise, such as diplomatic civility, is held as an offense, equivalent to "TM treason."
For better or worse, that's how things stand, the effect at this stage of the essential hostility (as I find it) of TMism. It stifles both thought, and discussion, allowing only hymns of praise, and belligerent ignorance toward anything else. So, unfortunately I think, for all the wrong reasons of pure relational negativity -- there really can't be the kind of discussion such as you might wish for. Under the "Who Goes There Friend or Faux?" rules of engagement enforced -- by malice in wonderland -- it is excluded, taboo.
Situation thus appears distinctly malignant. Prognosis? Unless persons of conscience and clarity realize what we see before us -- and what's more, speak out and even break ranks boldly, on sound principle -- should we expect it to change any time soon? And this goes to the metastasis -- personal integrity and values have been behaviorally conditioned into oblivion, along with critical not-so-sure inquiry, this culture pattern.
What should we predict the future holds in this regard, by all signs and writing on the wall? I find any reasonable optimism would require a supreme recovery of relational-moral health. Meanwhile, "road rage" -- as JZap called it (in a follow-up RS feature "inspired" by the reactions to this one) -- and its fallout have issued clear warning to any who might like to discuss differences amicably: they'd better not try it if they know what's good for them - or else.
Powers of fear and anger govern relations in the TM circus tent. Apparently there's a scare for the 'inspired' in what might transpire -- unregulated, no script -- if divergent perspectives amicably discussed major differences. Alas - so far in TM's wake, discussion can only be choir practice.
I can only offer any regrets, depending on your discussion tastes and interests. Here at present, differences of perspective wider than an inch or two are held in contempt and invite assault as barriers to overcome, not boundaries to observe and respect toward any greater possibilities. A fence dividing a property from another next door -- across which neighbors might talk -- is simply a battle line drawn by TMism, and there'll be no pursuit of any broader view. Hostility and attack the only conceivable possibilities for interaction across it.
And above all (to get this straight) -- the Teaching in evidence is: There's "certainly" (must be emphatic, preemptive idiom: 'don't even think it') no question of the absolutely wonderful, positive and beneficial nature of the glow cast upon us by his every word. Its the doctrine, and indoctrination reigns.
The example of JZap, 'brought to justice' by fellow TM inspirees is sadly illustrative. For them his crime wasn't just that he didn't help attack. He had the audacity to respond with thought and reflection of his own, even writing an article about the hostile reaction, questioning it (and acknowledging someone else might be right sometimes "or half-right").
That was bad enough, in the eyes of his zealously raging fellows. But his most unacceptable offense for them, was engaging with me in exploratory exchanges ("Socratic dialogue" his term). Not only did he break an informal 'reindeer game' exclusionary rule of engagement - harass, alianate rather than relate (remember childhood?) -- it posed an outbreak of dialogue, broadening discussion not narrowing it For attackers trying to stick to script, marshal troops and cut off relational lines, JZap's crime was like "Lending Aid And Comfort To The Enemy" and blasphemy - rolled into one.
I think Zap rightly realized certain stakes. The "inspiration" can only be tarnished by enthusiasts exploding with spite, showing what they're made of. Indeed, that only spotlights the aggression that lurks, trying to conceal itself beneath a mask of "Wow!". Seems to me Zap had a genuine inkling, the only 'damage control' prospects lay in the "high road" of search for better understanding, rather than all-out (albeit ineffectual) ad hominem attack. But he overlooked a vital consideration I've cited. The splendor of TM's robes may not be questioned. Failure to realize that merely expresses in-camp denial of the extent to which open discussion is held in contempt, and not to be tolerated.
That's where I find the true scope and scale of TMist operations.. The self-deception at the heart of TMism drives a total abandonment of critically questioning - such authentic search can have no role in a vast web of tangled nonsense (daring us to try, like spider's hospitality to the fly) ...
I invite you, check out these reply pages, and at his own article (Transcending Online Road Rage). Some of the "proceedings" against JZ are still in evidence, although some posters involved have erased posts (one's even bailed out RS aft having failed miserably, a year later). But the squads certainly took care of JZap handily for speaking to, or 'negotiating with - the Enemy."
And alas nothing unique, just back to the human condition. As history reflects, fear and confusion can have us earthers turning in our own parents to fascist authorities. Should it be any surprise "in-camp" can be discouraged from dialogue attempt, and brought to heel and repentance by authoritarian measures if they tempt it?
Looking deeper and further into this TM "inspiration", what's beneath its mask - it really seems to be significantly about fear and anger. Its bread and butter conformity, acquiescence, passive complicity, watching what you say etc -- classic nourishments of not liberty but fascism. The most concerning and conspicuous feature is, profound narcissistic lack of values, conscience, humanity itself.
Orwell's book might have been called 2012, not 1984. And like any form of brain-washing, or 'garden variety' thought control, TM 'inspiration' (as I'm finding more and more in tracing its outline) proves to be essentially about --
-- "the realization that one has no control even over one's inner soul. In Blue Eyed, facilitator Jane Elliott says, of those under her authority for the day: 'A new reality is going to be created for these people." She informs everyone of the rules of the event: 'You have no power, absolutely no power.' By the end, broken and in tears, they see their own racist evil, and they love Big Sister." (distinguished History Professor A.C. Kors: http://reason.com/archives/2000/03/01/thought-reform-101/singlepage)
You say what?
Take a Breathe Please: Comments Guidelines
Hi RS Community,
We've had to remove some comments on this article for violating our guidelines. We support dynamic debate on topics, but just as thak you be respectful of one another. Please take note for future postings.
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Take a Breathe Please: Comments Guidelines
Hi RS Community,
We've had to remove some comments on this article for violating our guidelines. We support dynamic debate on topics, but just as thak you be respectful of one another. Please take note for future postings.
Thanks!
"He chairs the Religion and
martyrs and saints
All you have really succeeded in doing here was making a martyr out of Mckenna. He was already followed somewhat fanatically (by those who follow him) and you're not converting anyone away from him really. Plus, stoned ape is a bad place to attack Mckenna from anyway - Timewave zero pretty much makes no sense at all, and James Kent published a nice piece detailing the shortcomings of machine elves as entities separate from one's consciousness.
I agree with Tony V that you seem a bit too fanatical in your railing against Mckenna. It's pretty easy to leave it be. If the shortcomings of the stoned ape theory are indeed true then you need not worry - those who are convinced of it will remain convinced and science at large will not blink at it. You have entrenched the convinced even further into the depths of TM than they were before. I can just see daruma foaming at the mouth, steaming about how this will be accepted theory by mid century and then proceeding to accuse you of some vague religious infidelity to the whole human race (and then capping it all with some astrology bullshit). As a clear TM adherent, he stands on the opposite end as you - but both of you look like jackasses, lobbing verbal grenades over the no-man's land that is the Internet.
My advice is to let TM adherents and other followers of flimsy new age schools of thought simmer in their own thinking. As technoshaman88 points out, much like a FOX news adherent, he comes here for a specific kind of news, not to have his ideas challenged but rather re-affirmed (as many humans do). It makes them happy, though, and that's what really matters as humans as long as nobody else gets hurt. Again, as there is Akers on one end and daruma on the other, you both seem wildly dissatisfied about something, whatever it may be.
p.s. as wack as stoned ape theory is, i think if you're going to look at it, it's best to look at it through a memetic evolutionary sense rather than a genetic one. It makes more sense/is more plausible that way.
Free advice and apologetics aside -
MP, you offer various points, clearly enough stated. Much of what you say I'd either disagree flat out. Or point to key, major vital considerations you've kind of overlooked -- that point in very different direction than yours. The emphasis you offer I would most firmly and soundly reject is this note of apologetics for others' problems, from your perspective, and trying to give aid and comfort to the dinged here.
Many misunderstandings are evident to me in some things you say. But it appears you are expressing your point of view and perspective. Others pretending (bad acting too) to do that, another matter entirely.
I assume you don't need me to agree or endorse. I can testify neither do I (any more than I need you or anyone to agree with me).
But compared to posters you're trying to put up for (there's no such excuses, sorry, denied), you're not uninformed -- one flag that can be planted, and change of pace.
I'm not seeing so much trying to scratch and pull hair and bite. Its like your post is is not following the character attack plan, a tissue of snide insinuation, prevarications, and huffing and puffing (have I missed something?). That's a big time distinction from the parade of send-ins, unless I misread you.
A great deal you suggest doesn't add up but that is not what I wish to emphasize -- I'd rather point to some things you said that are well noted, valuable and worthwhile. Scan reveals zero such content in many, maybe most posts here.
Good cite, J. Kent's "elves." A definitive piece, glad you brought that up. In case anyone doesn't know of it:
http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?id=dmt_pickover
An observation you didn't note (there are many); of importance in this context, from my pov: JK is in part rebutting a guy, C. Pickover, who's drawing fascinated attention to elves, like there's some kind of interesting or significant content, or some genuine idea, or some astute observation. Just like a million others.
But, difference: Pickover is way too smart and educated for that. If it was only the stupid who fell for that stuff, the scene would lay out thus. But if we look, we discover there is some further unaccounted-for thing here. Is it just currying favor with the TM constituency? Is he so smart on all this other stuff and cluelessly dim on this one thing? Stranger things have transpired in the course of human affairs. I don't know the dude, so I don't have the "individual personal" insight into it.
In any case, a pleasure seeing Kent's well framed, astute replies. His article is every bit as definitive as Watkins' on twave, I think. But to see a guy like Pickover somehow falling for such, disastrously -- not for him, but for the "aid and comfort" factor. Twenty bucks says, he has not studied UFO cults and contacteeism. Bet?
See, scientists study phenomena where -- we're not worried, we don't have to be worried, that nature is trying to trick us, or has some kind of hoax its trying to stage. We have luxury that way, we are relaxed on that count. We don't have to have our guard up that maybe some of these data we've gathered were set up -- "funny data" that have been counterfeited, in order to deceive. That's a human intention, not nature.
When we put a plant or mushroom under the microscope, we don't have to have intel/cointel mindset. Unlike people studying certain purely human phenomena. Different deal there, wow. Ask Jacques Vallee, don't take it from me.
And I can tell you, from microscopy, from studying fungi, and the wide-eyed interest there -- them hills glitter like a goldmine of fraud and con art. The marks are eager to be conned and don't care as long as its an exciting scam that pumps their enthusiasm, and helps them blow these bubbles. There are data being faked. The first and most breathtaking example had to do with a mushroom in Florida that was promoted in countercultural magazines back in the 1980's. A species of Lepiota sensu lato, I wonder if you know if it.
I needed to find out what the facts were about this. As long as I find out, it doesn't matter what they turn out to be. When I began my investigations, I didn't have any idea I'd be exposing something with mortal consequences. It wasn't until a year or two after publishing the results of study:
http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyberliber/59575/0043/0461.htm
... that I learned of a fatality (mushroom poisoning) apparently linked to this by the author of a feature, Jan 1993 issue of MYCOFILE (newletter of the Vancouver mushroom society).
Your reference to "as long as nobody gets hurt" risks touching something vital. Human welfare and regard for such. Including life and limb, bodily, mortality. And more intangibly, the mind, they psyche, the soul, whatever kind of language or term you prefer. This is the stuff our attention is directed away from with concerted intent, and the social patterns make sure of that. All kinds of flap and flit and flutter in the hen house if anybody breathes any such word. We're dealing with taboo, a most ancient form of social control. If only you'd used that phrase as inquiry -- is anybody getting hurt.
And need I say, to be offended is not injury. Nor is the unpleasant necessarily a sign of "bad bad." Indeed, that which feels good can be unhealthy, even kill.
Con artists sure understand the naivety of the gullible marks, and the unwariness of "scientists with no clue what con art is up to. In anthropology ... poor discipline, talk about a target for cons, from Piltdown to Castaneda and worse, I won't go too far into it. The professors on Castaneda's committee at UCLA -- what a disaster. Only one of them, Ralph Beals, knew squat about the Yaqui. And he told the others, "This Castaneda guy, none of this stuff he's giving us has any least credibility; he's making this up, and we're just supposed to go along with it?"
The other committee profs told Beals he wasn't being "supportive" of their struggling young charge. So he told them "ooo-K, that guys all yours, I"m off this committee, I won't be party to this, you want egg on your faces its your boat you row it." (I paraphrase)
Those other professors lost a lot of credibility and repute in the end, and got themselves into a pickle where nothing they could say or do was right now because of how badly they'd messed up. Ward Churchill's book FANTASIES OF THE MASTER RACE has a chapter on Castaneda, goes into some of this. Before that DON JUAN PAPERS by de Mille.
Object lessons are all around us. Vietnams if you will.
your last remark if I understand your emphasis, has a good point. Core concept of anthropology: culture (to replace the Dawkinsian term you used, which I understand enjoys currency in some circles).
Unlike other species, we have elaborate cultural adaptation. Varies from one society to another radically, its not determined biologically. For instance, what language we speak, its about what language they were talking where you grew up, not your skin color or etc. Or, what is our economic subsistence base? What kind of tool kit? All cultural. Biologically we're evolved to exist in culturally configured society, but nothing about configured how -- that's open, not determined by genes.
From ethnography and ethnology we know: plants, animals, fungi can be, have been, in many cases are -- a stimulus, a dynamic factor, sometimes a major basis of cultural adaptations. TM doesn't get any creds about that though -- I would propose the credit goes to those anthropologists and related specialists who've been working over more than a century, doing ethno studies, helping build our understanding and knowledge.
Change over time, diversification of traditions and customs and so on -- ok with me to call that cultural evolution; although I guess the "evol" word is not preferred by some anthropologists. It may be they read some kind of progressive Lamarckian assumption into the word, which it doesn't really carry -- except in the minds of popularly misinformed folk. And they don't want to suborn misconceptions about "we're advanced, they're primitive" anthropologists can have a slight tizzy about that (understandable maybe; with the ethno- prejudicing, propagandizing potential being implicit).
We do find fungi in culture history and diversification, origins and transformations of practices and teachings. Same even more, with plants and animals, not necessarily a pharm-function though it can be. Plants have been big culturally, as food (fodder, feed and forage for our animals too), sources of fiber for cordage and textiles etc, craft materials most notably wood for making tools and weapons and habitation structures or other buildings etc -- the figure richly in story traditions and narrative, have uses that aren't physical or practical but symbolic or semiotic. And yes, medicines, drugs and poisons, toxins and intoxicants.
There is a real distinction (not fake) between biological evolution, natural selection processes, phyletic diversification, etc.
I have some concerns about the emphasis you offer, which is I think a very misconstrued one in some ways, on certain points. But that is not important to me. Your post is not a character attack. That sets it pretty far apart from posters you'd lend support to on sympathy. From my pov various criticisms you offer are -- to a word -- invalid for myriad reasons, from standpoint of things I know, know about, understand, etc.
But that is not the emphasis I want, only an aside. I salute disagreement actually based on thought and understanding, in any part. That sort of thing can be stated coherently, so that one reading it such as myself, can at least detect content, meaning, form and substance.
Now I'm religious; when did that happen?
These nail-chipping attack posts show a striking "standard" of
- thought
- reason
- logic
- knowledge
How interesting for me to learn -- I'm religious, apparently. I had no idea. I thought I'm not, nor ever have been; including whatever brand of Catholic or Protestant, Islam, Judaism etc. I thought I didn't believe in any such.
Well, what do I know about what I think, or believe?
As I've hinted: by both its deliberate ("conscious") design and effects "stoned apes" is no theory, nor fairy tale. Its a trick pony, propaganda stunt. Its purpose as kindly explained by TM is to try and "get people to believe" ... etc. "topple ..."
Yes it pretends up a storm. Dresses up in sheep theory clothing going "baahah bahaahh." That its bankrupt in its 'screen terms' as theory (not propaganda -- obviously its high value as the latter) has nothing to do with whether anyone -- this person or that -- is or is not a Christian ... or an atheist ... or a purple people eater or -- whatever.
Science, knowledge isn't based on, determined by what identity group, what race or creed or color a scientist or anyone else is. There are atheist or agnostic scientists (newsflash?). Others religious, to one degree or another, a little or a lot, in one tradition or another (who knew?). There are Hindu scientists, Catholic or Protestant ones, Buddhist ones, Jewish ones ... there's no such criterion or requirement, nobody is excluded.
Above all - one certainly don't have to check brain at the door (like when joining a cult). No thought control there, in science you don't have to have a mind so open the brains have fallen out. In fact, better to have your mind -- helps figure out or discover or get answers to questions. I realize none of that matters in cultism, so pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
If whatever I (or you or any) say is just because I'm "religious" or a "Christian" (or whatever the clueless) -- than there's no longer any possibility of human intelligence. Nice, and congrats -- that is kind of a toppling of the "paradigm of Western Civ" ...
Now, anything anyone says can be frivolously dismissed by some sweeping flagrant ad hominem, on someone's belief or practice. Such excuse doesn't even have to be true, as long as it has some kind of supposed inflammatory use or value.
No need to consider fact vs fancy, its all a joke now. No need for knowledge or reasoning -- no need to consider substance or content anymore, nor worry about whether a fact is true or mistaken -- or even a lie. Pretty liberating, I'm enthusiastically excited by the possibilities. Limitless, nothing can be ruled out now, and anything swept aside. What power.
Anyone on that page has deftly, tragically negated their own every word. Now, whatever they say is null and void, because -- their sword cuts both ways. Anything they say (applying their "logic") is just because they are (or are not, depending) Christian or Hindu or atheist or ... whatever. Mission accomplished: Nothing can matter or mean anything by this rule of "thought." Now everything is up for mocking dismissal, on personal stats of creed, or maybe ethnicity or sex or something else.
Pee- UKE -- the stench of ideological bigotry and prejudice. I guess we're supposed to be all against religious people now, never mind whether they're fundamentalist or "atheist Christians" (you know, unitarian or all that). Air freshener, need to spray some lysol here.
Familiar stuff. National Socialist Party in Germany, starting early 1920's operated that way -- one reason I use term "cultural pathology."
We're not stupid, we're human beings. What do the "glorify his name and woe to whoever does not" attack posters take us for exactly? Cults foster such cultural malignancy, coddle, encourage it-- the "paradigm" is Us against Them. Its like KKK.
And the attitude, vile in humane terms (by considerations and values I recognize and know), goes so unquestioned, not a word is spoken the church bells all are broken. The 'believers" soon just assume the absolute reign of such prejudice. Like something that could never be questioned. So now it moves on to next step, a matter of "what are we going to do with these people, maybe some final solution??"
The sheer inhumanity and alienation metastasizing quietly unnoticed is staggering in the exuberantly impressionable, merry old land of TMIsm. Its putting on quite a little show here.
It won't speak for healthy vibrant curiosity about the incredible world around us, and the transcendent fact that we are alive, and that being alive, breathing, being, is fantastic. I'll do that, against the TMist doctrines ("tenets" to borrow from a post here).
And I'll call into question sneak attack on our humanity, our thought. We don't have much, but we still have that.
And it is not a perfect condition or state. Its not going to be. It doesn't need to be. Its human, good genie and bad genie, thesis and antithesis merging into -- us. Synthesis. It ain't no either or proposition, and we got nobody to put the evil into its bottle and cork it for us. Up to us.
Echoing some WISDOM (I hope the pun's ok ;-) from another poster here (and I paraphrase):
Evidence for any theory .... doesn't have to do with whether Person A is a one-eyed people-eater, or Person B some horrible christian, or whatever other religions are on someone's "boo hiss bad" target list.
And a theory is about evidence. We draw conclusions from the facts. Not the other way around. Horse pulls cart. Cart can't really pull horse you see.
That's how it is. There are a million things that are true. And another million that aren't. Its not all the same, there are distinctions, real ones not phoney. Nor do incantations and jabberwocky define the difference.
Applause RS. I gather the idea of freedom of thought, open discussion is not yet dead. Bravo for principle (and cajones). Truth can still be told apparently, one can express a thought, use reason -- against other designs. I rejoice to reflect these things are not yet lost.
There are social circles or settings in which that stuff is strictly verboten, not allowed, obviously. Seems like some posters see RS as one such, from what I read. To see and thus know they're wrong, apparently, suggests -- maybe not too late for our planet and species, maybe we can evolve. Imagine.