The Sojourn of Science

This essay is an excerpt from The Ascent of Humanity.
Scientific thought is essentially power thought—the sort of thought that is to say whose purpose, conscious or unconscious, is to give power to its possessor.
—Bertrand Russell
At its purest, the purpose of science is to better understand the world; or, we could say, it is to bring new worlds into the human domain of understanding. Science begins as an exploration of the unknown, and later becomes a conquest that subjugates that unknown to human purposes. It is thus highly significant that the Scientific Revolution coincided so closely in time with the European Age of Exploration. In both we see the same missionary zeal, the same sense of a new world of possibility, the same ideological roots, and the same tragic consequences.
The Age of Exploration led to the Age of Imperialism, both geopolitical and scientific. The urge to discover new lands was never innocent of the power motive. The sense of mission that drove the Europeans to civilize and colonize the world also infuses science. To civilize: to make tame, to bring order to. To colonize: to make subservient; to administer as a source of raw materials. Science colonizes the world for technology, finding ways to put materials to use, "harnessing" the forces of nature. Each new world that science discovered—the microscopic and the celestial, the electromagnetic and the chemical—was first explored and then exploited as a new dominion.
Both campaigns of conquest, the scientific and the terrestrial, are expressions of the same aspiration: to make the world ours.
Starting about five hundred years ago, scientists and explorers issued forth from the Old World into a new. One frontier after another succumbed: the heavens, the sea, the poles, the archeological past, Everest, the cell, the genes, outer space, the atom. Concurrent with the expansion of the territory of civilization, the human realm broadened with each scientific conquest and the realm of the mysterious, the wild, shrank. By the end of the 19th century both conquests seemed nearly complete: only a few scattered hunter-gatherer tribes remained in the earth's remotest regions, and only a few recondite phenomena, it seemed, still eluded the onward march of science.
The exhilarating promise of the new worlds sparked an optimism and a zeal that was to last for several centuries. Some vestige of it remains today in persistent hopes that nanotechnology or genetic engineering will bring the same easy riches (or even the Fountain of Youth) once sought in the terrestrial New World. But for most, confidence in this promise is wearing thin.
Whether or not its promise will ever be redeemed, perhaps we have entered a new world. Certainly the astonishing, nigh-miraculous technologies of air and space travel, instantaneous communications, and information processing would have seemed fantastical to people five hundred years ago. But if we have entered a new world, we have indubitably brought the old world with us, just as the European colonists brought along and perpetuated the violence and injustice they sought to escape. The new realm that science has opened to us is just like the old: it bears just as much uncertainty, just as much want, just as much suffering and just as much savagery, if only in somewhat different form.
This should not be surprising, because the Scientific Revolution was not really anything new. It was not a cultural discontinuity, but rather the crystallization of trends far preceding it. Science is just the culminating articulation, indeed the apotheosis, of trends of objectification going back thousands of years. Science takes the objectification of nature to its extreme, but conversely, a preexisting objectification of nature is necessary to even articulate its basic tenets and methods. It was only in the 17th century that our separation was sufficient for science to take off. The great names of the Scientific Revolution—Galileo, Newton, Descartes, Leibniz, Bacon—merely gave expression to ideas whose time had come.
Before the 17th century human beings had not even the basis to dream of the Scientific Program to understand everything and the Technological Program to control it. The mysteries were too great and the powers of nature too awesome, our knowledge too scant and our technology too feeble. However, the slow accumulation of technology and empirical science through the Renaissance period gradually eroded nature's forbidding immensity, bringing us to a point where such an assault on its mysteries became conceivable.
The conceptual underpinnings of this assault were formulated by Kepler, Galileo, Bacon, and Descartes in the early part of the 17th century. The key physical insight (discovered by Galileo and formalized by Descartes) seems quite innocuous: a moving body continues to move forever at the same speed and the same direction, unless a force (friction, for example) acts upon it. Before Galileo, people naturally assumed that it takes a constant force to keep something in motion: when the ox stops pulling, the cart stops moving. Galileo said no, without force, nothing new ever really happens. Moving bodies keep moving in the same direction; resting bodies stay at rest. To change anything, force must be applied.
Why was this such a big deal? We live in a world of movement. Before we'd digested the physics of Galileo, Descartes, and Newton, it seemed obvious that in order for there to be movement, there must be a Mover, a being to keep the sun and the moon in motion, to blow the wind and to rain the rain, to grow the plants and animate the animals. With the new laws of motion, no such Mover was necessary. Once set in motion, everything keeps moving by itself. At most, motion can get transferred from one object to another. God was no longer necessary to animate the world.
Parallel logic led naturally to the thought, developed by Descartes and others, that maybe animals are machines too, that no anima, no spirit, is needed to animate them either. The law of conservation of momentum is thus a direct denial of the ancient religion of animism. Consider a Native American term for God: "the spirit that moves all things". With Galileo and Newton after him, no such spirit is necessary. Nothing is innately animate, but only moves by the application of physical force. Matter is inherently dead.
Descartes, Galileo, and the rest still believed in God, but they removed Him from the world of matter. God became a watchmaker, and creation became a discrete act and not an ongoing process. The universe became, essentially, a machine. The divine, once wholly identified with nature, and gradually abstracted through the age of agriculture and the Machine, was now completely removed from the world of matter.
With God no longer participating in the moving of the world, there is nothing to stop human beings becoming the world's masters. And the tools of our mastery are the tools of force. There is nothing we cannot alter if we can only apply enough force in the right way. Our power over the universe, the body, and each other is limited only by the amount of force at our disposal, and our understanding of where to apply that force. Herein lies an intriguing definition of technology: it is a system of techniques for the application of force.
And how do we know the correct way to apply force? Only through the application of reason to the quantitative, objective description of reality that science provides. Our power, in other words, comes through the faculties of the mind. And what is the domain of the mind? Which aspects of the universe are to be included? Kepler's answer was this: "As the ear is made to perceive sound, and the eye to perceive color, so the mind has been formed to perceive quantities." Galileo heartily concurred. The brain, he believed, is wholly concerned with the apprehension of what he called primary qualities: size, shape, quantity, and motion. Everything else, even and especially sensory experiences such as sounds, odors, and colors, was secondary, outside the province of mind and outside the province of science. After all, we share those experiences with animals, but the abstraction and quantification that Galileo attributed to pure mind is a singularly human trait. By implication, the more fully we devote ourselves to that function, the more separate we are from the animals, the more ascended.
In exiling quality from reality, Galileo banned subjectivity from science and denied the importance of how we experience the world. Science today still strives to remove any dependency on individual subjective experience; following Galileo, it concerns itself with that which is independent of subjectivity. Lewis Mumford puts it succinctly: "Following Kepler's lead, Galileo constructed a world in which matter alone mattered, in which qualities became 'immaterial' and were turned by inference into superfluous exudations of the mind."[4]
So deeply has the gospel of objectivity taken hold that it pervades our very language, so that when we use words to deconstruct it, we risk unconsciously reinforcing it. Witness the odd phrase above: "...in which matter alone mattered." Here, to matter is to be significant, to be effectively real. Matter, turned into verb form, means to be real. Implicit in that very verb is that only matter is real. (And what about weighty matters?) If we tried to posit the opposite sentiment, say, "Spirit matters more than matter," we are actually reinforcing the primacy of matter via the tacit assumptions embodied in the language itself.
Even more subtly, every declarative "is" sentence also reinforces objectivity by making a peremptory claim about an absolute reality independent of anyone's subjective experience. You see, that's just the way it is.
If, as modern physics suggests, the observer is inseparable from the observed, then any "is" sentence is at best an approximation and at worst a lie. This lie inheres already in the abstraction of symbolic language, originating tens of thousands of years before. In the abstraction of symbolic culture, the alienating conclusions of Kepler, Galileo, and Descartes are already present. These thinkers merely formalized separation as an ideological principle. A long-gathering undercurrent had now risen to the surface and would soon sweep all before it.
Galileo's excision of God from the world of matter mirrored the even more audacious banishment of subjective experiences from the domain of rigorous intellectual exploration. Not only their knowability was questioned, but even their reality. Science is the study of reality; what is not measurable is not a valid subject of science; therefore what is not measurable is not real. A century later, David Hume took up this position with great enthusiasm: "Let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames; for it contains nothing but sophistry and illusion."[5]
In defense of these philosophers, it helps to see where they were coming from. The ideology of objectivity doubtless had a salutary effect initially, liberating thought from the stultifying Scholastic traditions that had long sequestered knowledge in the arcane volumes of Aristotle and the Church theologians. The new scientific knowledge, in contrast, was accessible to anyone; scientific experiments were replicable by anyone seeking to see for himself. No faith in dogma was necessary; all knowledge was to be open to first-hand verification. Truth was taken out of the hands of the ecclesiastical hierarchy. The Scientific Revolution sought to free thought, not to bind it.
Ironic indeed, then, is the present state of science, in which once again vast areas of inquiry are off-limits; in which experimental results that contradict orthodoxy are excluded from publication; in which knowledge is restricted to those initiated into the language of its abstruse texts; in which whole fields wallow in fruitless hyperspecialization; in which the public can only await the pronouncements of this new quasi-ecclesiastical hierarchy, holder of the keys to the gates of knowledge. Can we say that we have not replicated the old world within the new? Upon the Scientific Method, which freed thought from the institutionalized, authoritarian superstition of the Middle Ages, we have built yet a new orthodoxy, more totalitarian, if more subtle, than the first.
Returning to Galileo, his assertion that the universe is "written in the language of mathematics" potentially subordinates all its mysteries to human understanding and human control. Accordingly, to this day we attempt to understand the world by (1) gathering data, and (2) manipulating that data according to mathematical models. Nature is thereby rendered tractable, promising a reliable foundation to the Technological Program of control. Mathematically, the ambition of subordinating the universe to numbers took form in Descartes' system of coordinates, which associated every point in space and time with a number. Descartes was also among the first to fully grasp the potential power of this new approach to knowledge, as in this famous passage:
For by them I perceived it to be possible to arrive at knowledge highly useful in life; and in room of the speculative philosophy usually taught in the schools, to discover a practical, by means of which, knowing the force and action of fire, water, air the stars, the heavens, and all the other bodies that surround us, as distinctly as we know the various crafts of our artisans, we might also apply them in the same way to all the uses to which they are adapted, and thus render ourselves the lords and possessors of nature. And this is a result to be desired, not only in order to the invention of an infinity of arts, by which we might be enabled to enjoy without any trouble the fruits of the earth, and all its comforts, but also and especially for the preservation of health.[6]
Here Descartes articulates quite clearly the relationship between science and technology that was to dominate the next three centuries. Science achieves understanding, upon which basis technology achieves control. If we can understand precisely how something works, then we can conceivably control it with infinite precision. And the purpose of all this, the motivation and the justification, is to dominate nature, eliminate labor ("enjoy without any trouble the fruits of the earth"), ensure comfort, and conquer disease. He doesn't go so far as the techno-utopian ideal of overcoming death itself—such audacity had to wait the twentieth century—but he nonetheless lays out the Technological Program in all its essential details.
While Galileo and Descartes posited the mathematization of the universe, the first promising claim to having actually achieved such a feat had to wait until the defining figure of the Scientific Revolution, Isaac Newton. With his famous equation F=MA (force equals mass times acceleration), Newton put Galileo's discovery into rigorous mathematical form. Force, and only force, causes acceleration, a change in the rate and direction of movement.
Newton also furthered the removal of spirit from the world of matter by uniting heaven and earth. Up through the Middle Ages, heaven was not an abstract concept, but literally identified with the sky. That's where God lived. The sky, the heavens, was the abode of God during the agricultural phase of humanity. The Greeks put their gods first on Mount Olympus, and then later on an invisible, supernatural Olympus in the sky. The same identity existed in classical China as well: in Chinese, the word tian means both heaven and sky, and the semi-divine emperor was the tianzi, the "son of heaven".
Before Newton, the heavenly realm and the earthly realm remained separate. The heavenly realm was the realm of perfection, where heavenly bodies moved in perfect circles (well, actually ellipses) and along predictable paths. The earthly realm was chaotic; what order there was (tides, day and night, seasons, and so forth) seemed to originate in the heavens. Naturally, then, people associated the heavenly realm of order and mathematical perfection with God. Heavenly bodies were not subject to earthly laws—the moon does not fall out of the sky the way Galileo's weights fell from the leaning tower of Pisa.
Newton's accomplishment was to show that, by understanding gravity as a force, the same equation, F=MA, could be made to describe both realms, the heavenly and the earthly. A single equation replaced the empirical laws of both Galileo and Kepler, which had seemed entirely different. One equation described both the motions of the planets and the motion of an apple falling from a tree, an astonishing unification. Here was the first candidate for a "theory of everything", still the Holy Grail of physics. Here was the first plausible hope that maybe the whole universe and everything in it really could be understood in the form of mathematics, just as Galileo said.
Interestingly, even as they furthered the reduction of nature to mathematics, Newton's Laws required a new advance in that reduction to even be conceived. The derivation and application of Newton's laws required a novel mathematical technique—calculus—that solves problems by treating time as a succession of infinitesimally brief instants, essentially reducing process to number and becoming to being. Even as mere mathematics, calculus smuggles in a very different mode of conceptualization that perhaps could not have occurred outside the context of increasing objectification of the world. Maybe this is why Archimedes did not invent calculus two millennia beforehand, despite having applied the basic technique to numerous problems in geometry. Similarly, maybe it is an unconscious rejection of this leap in abstraction that renders so many students, even those who were "good at math" in high school, seemingly unable to learn calculus. And you thought you were stupid!
Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation purported to be just that, universal. The mind of man had finally penetrated the deepest secret of the universe. The greatest mystery had been revealed. Newton had discovered the key to the mechanism of God's creation. The human realm of the understood now encompassed the entire cosmos via a single governing equation. All that was now needed was to accumulate data.
No wonder Newton's discovery was so exhilarating and why Newton himself was such a celebrity. Poets spoke of him discovering the key that unlocks the universe. (His epitaph, penned by Alexander Pope, reads, "Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night / God said: 'Let Newton be' and all was light.")
It is significant that the canonical founders of modern science were so preoccupied with the sky, an unearthly realm well suited to a mode of inquiry that strove to be independent of human subjectivity. This focus links them back to the priesthood of the ancient builder civilizations with their semi-divine rulers, the sons of heaven, the earthly representatives of the solar god.
Even in those days, the court priest-scientists gazed upon the skies for purposes of astrology and calendar-making. Scientists, with their heads in the clouds, are not too concerned with earthly affairs—hence the stereotype of the absent-minded professor. They have also generally been politically innocuous—as long as they "stick to science" and "don't enter politics". The worldly realm is supposed to be separate from the realm of science, which is the non-earthly, the celestial. Metaphorically this holds even more strongly. Science, especially "pure" science which is loftier than applied, is a rarefied plane of pure thought, inaccessible to all but the most highly trained intellects. It is wholly in the realm of the mind. And since intellect or mind is itself a uniquely human realm, pure science represents the loftiest human ascent, and the scientist is the most highly ascended human being. Yes, scientists are the modern priesthood, gazing with their mysterious instruments at invisible worlds to divine the truth. We the uninitiated stand outside their temples awaiting their pronouncements.
The work of Kepler, Galileo, and Newton amounted to a conquest of the heavens, a bringing of celestial phenomena into the human domain of abstract mathematics. The literal "conquest of space" had to wait a few more centuries, but the ambition to do so was inevitable.[7] Space travel was to be the fulfillment of human destiny, holding all the promise of a new world and the final transcendence of the old. Yet when we finally landed on the moon, nothing much happened. Our leaders, channeling a generalized aspiration, had their heads in the clouds, the heavenly realm. But the earthly realm proved not so easy to leave behind. Space exploration was an unprecedented and literal "ascent" of humanity. The original abode of God, the rarefied plane of science, had been physically breached. We had literally entered the heavens, and we found that we had taken our earthly problems with us into our New World. We had not left biology or the world behind; in fact, space travel required that we take them with us, a bit of earth enclosed in a space capsule.
Neither are our forays into the realms of the mind ever unsullied by worldly matters. The culture of science is no more immune than any other human sphere to pettiness, vanity, politicking, cheating, favoritism, and prejudice. And like space travel, any attempt to divorce a rational society or a rational life from the organic supporting matrix where it belongs requires tremendous effort and incurs tremendous danger. Such a life or society is tenuous, fragile, and short-lived. It cannot exist for long without reconnecting to the wellspring of life.
No more independent of nature are we than an astronaut is independent of the earth. Only a very foolish astronaut would think that he has no more need of the planet: "Hey, I've got food, I've got water, I've got oxygen... I'm fine!" Such is the myopia of the civilization of fire, encapsulated in its own vehicle of exploration, fueled and sustained by the supplies—natural, social, cultural, and spiritual capital—that it has taken along. Our voyage has taken us far, but to what end?
We reached the moon, and it was barren. The bleak moonscape of rocks and dust is a fitting metaphor for the landscape of separation, whether the emotional desolation of the man of reason, or the ugly homogeneity of suburbia. Yet our sojourn—the entire course of separation—is not without purpose. To convey a hint of what that purpose might be, I've selected a few quotes from astronauts describing their experiences as they gazed upon the earth from the vantage point of the most extreme literal separation human beings have ever known:[8]
From the moon, the Earth is so small and so fragile, and such a precious little spot in that Universe, that you can block it out with your thumb. Then you realize that on that spot, that little blue and white thing, is everything that means anything to you — all of history and music and poetry and art and death and birth and love, tears, joy, games, all of it right there on that little spot that you can cover with your thumb. And you realize from that perspective that you've changed forever, that there is something new there, that the relationship is no longer what it was.
— Rusty Schweickart
When I was the last man to walk on the moon in December 1972, I stood in the blue darkness and looked in awe at the Earth from the lunar surface. What I saw was almost too beautiful to grasp. There was too much logic, too much purpose — it was just too beautiful to have happened by accident. It doesn't matter how you choose to worship God... God has to exist to have created what I was privileged to see.
— Gene Cernan
On the return trip home, gazing through 240,000 miles of space toward the stars and the planet from which I had come, I suddenly experienced the Universe as intelligent, loving, harmonious.
— Edgar Mitchell
The first day we all pointed to our own countries. The third or fourth day we were pointing to our continents. By the fifth day we were aware of only one Earth.
— Sultan bin Salman al-Saud
It isn't important in which sea or lake you observe a slick of pollution, or in the forests of which country a fire breaks out, or on which continent a hurricane arises. You are standing guard over the whole of our Earth.
— Yuri Artyukhin
With all the arguments, pro and con, for going to the moon, no one suggested that we should do it to look at the Earth. But that may in fact have been the most important reason of all.
— Joseph P. Allen
Like its most iconic achievement, space travel, science has taken us on flights of intellect to a cold, barren, alien realm, reducing life to a collection of forces and masses. And yet, this new vantage point has revealed a previously unsuspected splendor. Gazing through the lens of accumulated scientific knowledge at a body or a cell, when we really get its complexity and orchestration, its order and its beauty, the perfect mesh of levels and systems, then we know we are in the presence of a miracle. Awe is the only authentic response. Science has brought us to a place where we can walk in living awe of the ongoing miracle that is the world. In analogy to Joseph Allen's thought above, perhaps it is this, and not control, that is the true purpose of science. It is to apprehend new realms of the awesome.
Image by listentoreason used under Creative Commons license.
Tweet
- 4-16-09
- Charles Eisenstein's blog
- Login or register to post comments
- Printer-friendly version










Comments
Revelation of Privacy
TechnoCentrism
I don't know that cultures prior to the 17th Century would agree that their "scientific" approach was objectification of nature. Prior cultures seemed to have a more, whole-listic view on nature. In Egypt especially there seemed to be an agreeable synthesis between art, geometry, music, mathematics and astronomy. The culmination of that synthesis being found in their hieroglyphics and mythology. According to Plutarch, the equilateral triangle was to be found in the proportions of Tehuti's beak-tip and the tips of his feet. Also, Plutarch and other Greeks said that the Osiris and Isis legend actually had to do with the waxing and waning of the moon (Osiris being divided into 14 parts (waning) and being reassembled by Isis (waxing)). This tradition, for whatever reason, seems to prefer symbolic education whereas in the West we prefer a vapid exposition. Perhaps the most telling sign of Egypt's science was that their influence didn't end with the Greek's. It caried forward far into the future and influencing such men as Kepler, who in his own words credited Egypt with his discoveries. In fact, only recently has science really seemed to have gone into this objectification of nature through exposition.
Most of our heroes of the 17th Century were mystics and alchemists.
www.sniffcode.com
Re: Archonicus and sniffcode
To both of you: Lucid.
And I would like to carry on in this vein. As complexity in any kind of COSMIC structure (be it aware entities or abstract systems) grows, the potentials of such a structure will also grow.
On the other hand will growing complexity also require an exponentially greater part of the energy available to any given complex structure, so it will eventually collapse from the weight of its inner communication. E.g. a political empire using all its energy on bureaucracy or a multi-company dying from 'departmentalism'.
So a functional survival of a complex structure depends on its ability to find a balance between potential expansion (e.g. finding 'knowledge') and the inner 'administration' of this process.
Finding this balance isn't an automatic process, and critical periods will emerge, where a shift can lead to either collapse or continuing creativity.
Human history is an endless series of failures of finding such a balance.
So maybe the most important now isn't to look mainly at the outcome of specific complexities, but rather at complexity itself as a phenomenon.
I don't like to dish out clichées, but in this connection 'Small is beautiful' actually demonstrates the above. This is just one example of a solution, there might be others.
eisenstein is a badass
Another insightful piece
By coincidence or not, your remarks draw together threads of discourse that I've discovered elsewhere on the web, by which I seem to be forming a new worldview.
For many year the logical positivist within kept me from considering the sort of ideas you're expounding. Only upon exploring the web did I discover the writings and especially the audio files of thinkers and writers like Terence McKenna and Robert Anton Wilson. I found many others as well, but these two speak to me most. I don't know whether you've read or listened to them, but you've hit upon a couple of their major themes.
McKenna commented many times on mechanistic science's emphasis on so-called "primary" qualities like spin, mass, quantity and so forth, and the corresponding devaluation of individual experience, just as you are doing.
Robert Anton Wilson addressed the same point as yourself concerning the word "is" (or, as I take it, the verb "to be"). In a speech delivered at a famous underground gathering he cited an Irish sage of his acquaintance who lambasted the use of "that cursed Sassenach verb" with its unsupportable presumption of objectivity, which Wilson (and the Irish sage) characterized as promoting an English or Saxon imperialist way of thinking.
17th century science and the subsequent Age of Reason were I think a necessary and desirable response to Inquisitional theofascism and to the 30 the Years War that preceded them, and I feel you're right to acknowledge this (and much the same may be said of Darwinism, which to this day in my opinion should not be set aside in favor of Creationist superstition).
One of the failures of science to live up to its own putative program is its supine acquiescence to government agendas vis-a-vis psychoactive drugs and the psychedelic experience. Establishment science seems indisposed to adequately investigate its own foundational premises. For instance, I recall long ago reading in my college textbook on astronomy the assertion that the universe is rational, and hence susceptible to rational apprehension by humans. But what reason forsooth is there to assume that nature feels herself obliged to make her operations comprehensible to a collection of talking monkeys? The very language of science concerning the "laws" of nature derives from what Alan Watts aptly called the Ceramic Model of the universe, suggesting a monarchical world-view which is by no means objective nor free from implicitly monotheistic presumptions.
I'd like to suggest a parallel to your idea of science freed from imperial programs of control. I like to think that a corresponding transformation of technology might generate what Buckminster Fuller called "ephemeralization," by which humans may live ever more lightly upon the earth, not by recourse to neo-primitivism, but by exquisitely refined technologies of "livingry" far more sophisticated than anything existing today, and (more importantly) guided by an utterly different philosophy of design that puts emphasis on beauty, nature, quality of life and transcendental values rather than conquest or control. To me that seems like a path to a much more desirable future than what we've got now.
amen brutha
Newton
The Science of Nescience
Truth, in all of it's forms, {most certainly the empirical observational version}, is known only by it's cyclic nature, like learning of day and night ... seasonal changes etc .
Usually when ever there is a conquest to conquer "burning of the libraries" "art destruction" etc ... fosters the again falling into darkness.
Then as if out of the blue, we "discover reality" all over again.
In one sense each generation has a micro version of discovering truth all over again for itself ... based mostly on the premise of "not being the same maya as the last generation" {duality the true motivation}
All of our self-promotional human histories are 'but this "relativity."
Thousands of years ago, in the Vedic tradition ... they knew of the atom {anu/param anu} The Suns passing over an atom consisted of a minute measurement of time.
The further away from inherent insight into ones nature ... the more science is required to enlighten the imagined nescience.
Yet as one realizes oneself, science becomes unnecessary/obsolete.
The deeper into the "maya" / mammon ... the more research required ... this is the growing of the biblical "tree of knowlege" ... growing away from actual progress .. forever based on it's own duality ... similar to the "Vedic - Upside-down Banyan Tree"
The "tree of life" becomes again attractive as the self-perpetuation momentum runs out {karma-2012 etc}
This ongoing "head and tail of serpent" has always been cyclic on both micro and macro cosmic levels.
Quantum physics has finally found the root of all empirical observational folly ... to be forever in flux ... wave and particle ... seer and seen ... Tao and Zen ...
The world of external methodology has run it's course ... viable only in relation to it's previous nescience.
This "is" where our progress has taken us ... in the very language of our own progresive science we have finally found that it is our own "researching" itself that is lost
... information age lust ... the very passion of "specialization" ... but relative to the sloth of it's own misnomer.
Of course, all the top nobel laureate level thinkers get it ... the majority of corporate and govermental science still heavily motivated by the collective momentums
... faster and faster burning out the creative energy ... just to confirm what is already inherent ... just momentarily forgotten.
No matter how sophisticated the "toy fort" on the floor is ... the wild instincts of the young child destroys it as it meanders through it's own learning processes.
Meaning and "Meandering" ... each others perpetuation
Crackpot science
This is the absolutely worst and uninformed new-age interpretation if quantum physics, I've seen for a long time. Wait with making such categorically conclusions until a grand unified theory has been put forth.
Crack in Pot ... Finger in Dike
It is already a confirmed observation, that from the Quantum Perspective, all empirical observation is it self forever in flux.
There is no more grand theory to progess after this point ... just like their is no more value to continue printing money when the worth is less than the debt.
Die hard empiricists will just not give up ... just like bankers and money lenders will never give up
Cars are new age ... computers are new age ... all progress is new ... get with it buddy .. your the one being left behind.
Being left behind
I've been on the 'fringe', both practically and theoretically living with alternative lifestyle, philosophy and science for 45 years. And sofar I've escaped the unhappy fate of becoming a blueeyed 'believer' in unverified claims of any type.
Even the unverified claim of die-hard empiricism. Or the opposite.
And I don't give a toss about being ahead or behind. I just try to find reliable methods for finding truth.
the astrolabe picture and synchronicity
As an interesting case of synchronicity, the 'astrolabe' shown at the beginning of this article was recently the subject of three crop pictures in England: see www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/cropcircleresearch.html
Do any of you know what an astrolabe was once used for? And why would it be drawn in crops? Well, open your minds and think!
"You can take a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink. You can have it all laid out in front of you, but it still don't make you think. Oh no, oh no, oh no!"
Well, that is exactly what George meant.
Searching/Researching for What is Already Inherent
This is my only point my dear friend/enemy ... it is common understanding in the physics community, for over a decade that, the only difference between wave form and paricle manifestation... is the intent of the observer.
The method to the madness is already here ... why are you still searching/researching.
My background is likely even more organic/ageless than yours. Organic-close to nature/Entheogenic/Vegan/Philosophical/Sage for about 35 year}
Yet I do have a Ph.D in "Transformational Science" from UISCA.
I serve as a part-time faculty member {disabled} for this Satellite University.
I have been teaching Unified Field theory for about 10 years from the "Energetic Continuum" perspective
I make no distinction between new agers and old agers ...
Italian Physicist Ernst Wall ... John Haeglin {winner of Kirby award} ... Scientist and Inventor David Wagner ... Dr Gabriel Cousens MD.
These are the building blocks of what I know in such regards.
I know of no unified field theories that can or have made any progress after this realization had been reached ... just endless speculation ... not one step closer.
That all science has ever done was perpetuate it's own standard of measurement against the backround of infinity {Zero Point Field State}
The bottom line, "Quantum" truth is that our minds are as measurable as anything we could ever measure ourselves.
We cannot ultimately know what exists beyond our manifest moment ... all human knowlege acquiring facities are themselves in flux.
This is Quantum fact ... already confirmed ...
There is no old or new age where this has not been./will not be
No more license for Empirical research to trash this and that in the name of proving itself to be consistent.
It will never be more than the mind going through it's own motions .. after this point ... we have realized it, so lets restrict our neo-mech-tech whatever to the consolation of utility-only avenues ... no more conceptual authority ...
This is exactly in line with the downfall of the monetary system ... this whole archaic way of thinking ... {the majority of all modern scientific method is bought and sold to grease the wheels of this money machine}
Our own obervational perspectives will forever be in flux. Yet accepting this quantum truth makes it much easier to function efficiently ... some people just can't let go.
The less people holding on ... the easier it will become to let go.
For me all age is progressive till peak ... than back to the zero point field state of all pre-post manifest potential.
The empirical age has peaked my friend / enemy ... in the language of our own progress this is methodologically shown ... hence the "get with it comment" ... no judgemental offense intended.
People say "new agers" for the same reason one says "old fogie's" ... 'tis but judgement and judgement alone..
The "tree of knowledge" {bibilical mysticism} groweth no further ... better start acquiring a taste for the infinite.... {tree of life}
Niiiice, Pippalayana
What a pleasure to see a relevant and intelligent post. And sorry if I at first mistook you for a deliverer of clichées. It will be my pleasure to exchange a few opinions on our divergences, if you feel like it. In all friendliness.
But it will take some thinking on my part, so for now I'll just start with a more uncomplicated comment.
I have a strong feeling, that the 'tree of knowledge' myth in genesis is part of an old and widespread ideological conflict between centralised and decentralised religion. The two more extreme cases of decentralised 'religion', hinayana buddhism and pre-christian gnosticism, have used the words 'gnosis' and 'realisation' as descriptions of an experienced state closer to reality, stressing the aspect of individual approach.
Ofcourse the centralised religions tried to miscredit this doctrine, by creating a myth in which 'knowledge' is the root of all evil. 'Knowledge' could probably mean both left-brain, linear intellectual knowledge and higher 'wisdom' in this connection, depending on translation from the original (I'm not a classical scholar, so I can't say).
(That 'original sin' could be put into the equation was only an extra bonus).
But back to subject: As you maybe have seen in former posts from me, I'm not defending empiricism outside its own territory, and I will agree with you, that hard-core empiricism isn't, what it used to be. But it still fairly well describes one part of territory, which can be valuable when trying to make a greater and more inclusive map, hopefully giving us a higher probability of truth. Also sometimes called 'wisdom'. And that's not a closed path.
Tomorrow I'll get to the real point in your post. This was just a pleasant digression.
bogomil comment
Yes, I can see where you are coming from relative to past sociology, in trying to find parellels to the mystical symbolism.
For me the "Upside-Down Banyan Tree" example, from the perspective of "Vedic/pre-hindhu India} maybe more clearly explains this point ... although I can draw direct parellels from this "tree of life" symbol to actual ancient Yogic texts ... how to Quantumly understand the "leaving of Eden" ..
which are pre-Moses, {Judeo/Christiam/Muslim from the historical perspectivre, yet for now here are a couple of general sites on "Banyan Tree"
http://www.asitis.com/gallery/plate35.html
http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/truth/banyan.htm
{Side point for other posts above} ... Pythagoras historically went to India, and got clued in on advanced mathematics of ancient perspective from this highly evolved culture.
In the Bhagavad Gita, there are descriptions of two kinds of "scientists in illusion" ... or tendencies within each of us that allows our limited observational folly to limits us ... "Naradhama" ... {cannot be such, as I see no evidense ... therefore} ... and "Duskritina" {can only be acording to what I observe .. unless and until
No conscious intuition ... just the momentum of inertial force upon our thought processes ... no entheogenic/yogic supra-conscious influence/inspiration here.
We are all suceptable to these tendencies when looking at any life science. ... yet just as then as now, there was about the same proportion of extremes and "shades of gray" mixtures between ... "empirical observation at the expense of" ... and "spiritual intuition at the cost of ...
I guess we all can agree that it is the "Yoga" or "quantum link" between thess opposing "fruits of the tree" ... {judgment either way being the"oringinal sin"}
... allowing a true conscious link to foster integration with each of our own extremes.... individually {yoga
and collectively {prophecy} ... fruits of good and evil ... winged -serpent {Quetzacotl}
But also like you said this same patterned principle of "universality" can be found in many historical/sociological versions of progression over time as well ...large or smal... quite observant on your part.
Being Philosophically inclined, I tend to focus more on the overall principle, rather than the manifest paticipant.
Looking forward to any further discussion.
There is no sin
. . . but thinking makes it so.
The great majority of mankind are busy doing the one and a million things needed to be just loving parents or children so as to feed either: parents or children.
And guess what? Most have not the least idea about any 'metaphysic' or 'dogma' or 'higher' thought than: doing good to those they love.
The 'problem' of the world is those who propose they have the 'right' to impose upon everyone else their particularity and 'special' relevaltion.
That's all we need! This 'diksha' or 'dictate', this 'Whole-y' spirit that has inspired yet another 'seer' whose 'word' alone vouchsafes all future promise.
I think it was a wise piece of advice via more than one seer or two: let those who claim to be 'seers' prove their words!
If a seer said: the 'temple will be destryoed' and the temple was destroyed: this has been verified.
If the same such 'seer' said: death is overcome!
What is the test of that?
And, suppose, you proved that for yourself? What then?
Can you make such more than personal joy? Will you make it a 'law'?
Yeah. Right.
---------
Whatever I said: maybe the opposite! Or the opposite of the latter. You decide!
thank you
Thank you for sharing this beautiful story.
Charles
All those . . .
. . . who do not attain immortality: punishable by . . . er . . . death?
. . . but they are already dying . . . so . . . er . . . we got it! 'HELL!'.
Yeah! That's what we'll give 'em! Heck!
Henceforth: all those who don't 'ATTAIN'!: heck!
Personally, I think there has never been a better mockery of human stupidity than the masterpiece of Charles Erskine Scott Wood: A Heavenly Discourse. Wherein, Wood's 'God' decides the best motto of all would be: 'THE STUPID SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.'
And Wood's obvious 'God' was Samuel Clemmens, who, I'd guess, would have said: 'Amen'.
And amen to that, I say.
---------
Whatever I said: maybe the opposite! Or the opposite of the latter. You decide!
This does not worry me
I do agree with this:
Like its most iconic achievement, space travel, science has taken us on flights of intellect to a cold, barren, alien realm, reducing life to a collection of forces and masses.
...but I think it's important to recognize that it's only a cold, scientific personal disposition that can rob the world of its miraculousness and awe. The world itself loses nothing; the only losses are suffered by those individuals who believe that everything can be understood in conceptual, rational terms.
Rationality marks the limit of our current, inadequate level of understanding. It's time to look to intuition, personal experience (rather than research) and -- God forbid -- getting comfortable with not knowing.
Nice article.
www.raptitude.com -- The gentle art of sanity amidst civilization
Re: Pippalayana
As is the habit of old men, I will repeat myself for the umpteenth time.
My basic assumptions (probably the most important part in any quest for knowledge/understanding/wisdom) are: What humans call the universe is 'chaos' upon which 'cosmos' has been superimposed. For the benefit of the less scientifically interested 'cosmos' in this connection means order/structure, which organizes 'lack of order' (chaos) into order.
From a human perspective chaos is in its original/untempered state unstructured, not being subject to the dimesions and forces implied in the cosmic blueprint. And as a major part of human 'normal' experience is based on perception-mechanisms relying on the structur/order of cosmos, we usually don't percieve chaos directly, but variously describe it as 'vacuum', 'the void' or 'mind' (depending on ideology). Though the word 'mind' has some semantic shortcomings, it's my personal favourite in a kind of buddhistic way.
A very central point is HOW this superimposition of cosmos upon chaos takes place, and again we haven't got any human direct equalent. But if chaos is 'mindstuff' (seen from our perspective), the superimposition can also be said to take place 'in the mind'.
Several models are possible: The superimposition is taking place as an inherent part of human psychology. OR: The superimposition is a universal (but not transcendent) phenomenon, a parallel to the human-psychology based model, only encompassing the whole universe. Or: There's a transcendent (outside the universe) origin of the superimposition, which by 'intent' has made the cosmic blueprint and imposed it on chaos.
(Please note, that while this 'intent' hypothesis closely resembles the argument of 'intelligent design' it does in NO way support claims of the correctness or superiority of any specific religion).
Based upon scientific probability AND intuitive experience (mystics' transcendence) I find the 'intent' hypothesis the most approximately true.
As far as I can see, this point (the 'intent'-hypothesis) is the background-canvas from where I and Pippalayana arrive at different conclusions. As I will not put words into P.'s mouth, I will enlarge on my own argument. I'm not disagreeing with the theory, that chaos is the basic stuff of existence. But the 'intent' manifested in the cosmic blueprint can't be discarded totally, when we're searching for knowledge/understanding. The intrinsic principles in the cosmoc blueprint 'exist', parallel to chaos.
Please take the following as humour: In a totally creator-observed universe, you most likely would take the cosmic blueprint as a 'for-the-duration' reality, by not stepping out of a window on the fourth floor. I know, there are stories about people doing this, and on their way down learn to change 'reality' by changing observation-perspective. But while I believe in and have experienced paranormal phenomena, walking on water etc as a result of human insight, need more evidence.
P.: This is ofcourse a summary, also meant to include the less-scientifically oriented. Please put your finger on the weak spots to put them in focus, and I'll promise to forget my otherwise customary grumpiness. This is too interesting to start throwing dung.
Sci-Fi Whirly Bird
Maybe to break from mech-tech, pre-quantum science , for a moment, and imagine each individual soul as it's own self-perpetuating nuclear force
... all materialization surrounding each individual, or collective grouping{s} as a natural function of existential expression.
All materialization 'but the borrowing of both mind stuff ... and physique ..from the zero point field state.
For the Sufi ... "Whirling Dervish" ... the more derelict/dervish one is to {towards material knowledge} ... the more sublime the whirling.
Depending on the size of the "needles eye" maybe even the "Mind stuff" camel ... doesn't really makes it through.
Just like no matter can be accelerated towards the speed of light without loosing cogency at some point.
As we approach the "zero point field state" of "all possible manifest possibility ... in it's potential - eye of hurricane state
Well there comes a point where any idea or feeling that accompanies the transition ... but becomes itself transformed and "condensed" back down into time and space "materialization"...new and fresh ... and uniquely present.
The void can never be known or experienced, in other words... just the very last notion the empirical mind can come up with as it approaches "hyper-synchronicity"
It is always as a coming and going ... {tree of life} ... and never really that which is gotten ... or transcended .
..
Ignorance and knowing.... no mattter what we learn... we will have to "ignore" that at some point if we want to learn "anew"... {is this the "reality of chaos theory" ... lol
Which are 'but forever each others cycling. The point of present contention being that so much actual "life" is sacrificed for "but "virtual" understanding ... that to this very present moment ... such knowing is still itself in transition.
The very last computation of the super-most super computer will be .. oh no I am running out of steam ...if only I could just whirl back to spirit
Re: Pippalayana 2
Maybe I'm not quite following you, it's getting a bit zen, but are you suggesting, that I (Bogomil) kind of invented or created dinosaur-fossils as a part of my personal universe? That these fossils don't exist without me?
".....The void can never be known or experienced, in other words... just the very last notion the empirical mind can come up with as it approaches "hyper-synchronicity"
That's a hard point to argue for or against, but as I see it, it boils down to actual experience. Language would never be sufficient. My postulate is, that awareness (as you seem to find the 'mind' concept insufficient) can experience chaos also, if the noise from cosmos is excluded.
That's at least the general idea of a transcendent experience. I have myself, without the use of drugs or anything like that, had several such experiences. But then, I forgot to bring my chaos-meter on those occasions, so I can't really say, if it was a close approach to 'true' chaos I experienced or just a very good simulation. But that it was non-cosmos I experienced, I'm rather certain of.
Maybe the transcendent (or mystic) experience is a subject of special interest in this connection.
Back to language. I have the impression, that you, using language, are telling me, that language is insufficient. (Not that I disagree with you on that point). It's a kind of double-bind argument, even triple bind, because this way your own words will also be tripped.
Anyway. You won't get around 'cosmos' so easily. I think, that cosmos being what it is, does need some explaining apart from the usual spontaneous combustion model.
If you want to lead this discussion into the subject of communication, I'm game; but I'm very little schizoid and want to stay that way. So I must prematurely abstain from models implying that a collision with a 60-miles-an-hour-lorry isn't anything to worry about, because it's just an expression of my observer-created universum. Lorries can be terribly real and I take them very seriously.
Stasis and Ecstacy
From the "Energetic Continuum" perspective, "chaos" is just the "sense of transitional state" between levels of order.
Similar to the "neophyte contention" in pseudo spiritual circles, mostly in the name of nihilistric Buddhism, and/or the "mayavada/oneness" of the Vedic Sankaacarya teachings ....{most gurus from India follow this basic premise ...
... that all form/name/.sound/movement ... "originates" in formless/ nameless/silent/stillness ...
But all this is 'but the mind itself experiencing the "ongoing flow" between the ZPF potential state of all that is" ... spirit ... the light ... the void .. pure chaos, {from your apparent perspective} ...into focus/form/name/organization
... from Tao to Zen etc... and then back again .. it is this ongoing flux between the two itself that is "reality" .. not the stasis of organized matter as opposed to the ecstatic chaotic whim of spirit ... but their ongoing interplay ...{Lila - Sanslrit}
There is a similar tendency in neophyte and/or pseudo physicists, in regards to perpetual backward in time notions in relation to dimensional travel and the like {wormholes}
Yet every time one retrieves/relives a memory this "super-duper cosmic principle" is brought down to hum drum daily living.
That as they have the same illusion/maya about how this principle is applied to all universal manifesttion ... in relation to the "Zero Point Field State" ... following along the lines of Einstein's unified field theory ... that matter is in opposition to anti-matter and the like.
So the spiritualists and the materialist both get very "nebulous" when it comes to any actual understand ...
The contention here is that, similar to what you postulated, both the form and formlessness/ stillness and movement / chaos and order/ unified field and individual manifestation ... are but expressions of the mind in relation to itself.
Not that mind is "creating the reality" ... just creating it's own version of "conceptuaL relativity" in relation to it's own limitation.... the reality including the mind ... therefore can't be known by the mind alone.
In other words, as one looks from the Quantum perspective, into an Atom, lets say ... what we find is that "matter/order etc is mostly "space" over 90% ...
Yet as we look into the Zero Point Field State {ZPF}/ pure chaos/ or spirit ... we see all manifestation exists there {within} ... in a negative entropic "compressed state"
There is no ultimate homogenous dissolution of order into chaos / matter into void ... illusion into enlightenment ... not as a universal inertial principle
Just eternal in-and-out-of flux ... between these two "poles of purpose" ...
... the trransformation of order is the transformation of chaos {never really "pure" in this sense}
... chaos is the transitioning stage between plateaus of cogency .. both the alpha and omega are "confused" within the "OM" ... {quantum moment}
The mind, in it's limitation says "oh yes, now I see form/movement /order/manifestation/mammon
Yet spirit/space and/or ZPF are as much within matter, as before and after it's manifestation... so the mind is not really seeing clearly.... hence "Mysticim"
Then later the mind says "well it all must just "disslove" ..matter must dissolve ...order must breakdown ... my desire{s}/self ... certainly won't make it into heaven/samadhi/nirvana/self-less-ness
Yet "within Spirit " /ZPF/pure chaos/... is "compressed all such potential... the very opposite of "VOID"
Not nothingness ... but so much "everythingness" in it's "pre-manifest state" ... that as the mind reaches it's limits it creates the opposite conclusion in revelation to it's own original maya/misconception about matter being mostly organized ....
But this logic is like saying that the sun comes from the sunshine.... subtle into gross ... as if linear progression rocks !
... the whole empirical method of aquiring knowledge ... {the illusion being that since knowledge is always inherent ... the more we search outside of ourselves ... the further from understanding we are}... is forever based on it's own relativity.
Here is one apple ... here is another apple ... do you have two? ... {Sophistry[order} or one ... and the other ? ... {Philosophy/xhaos}
The more we advance science ... the more we trash matter
... the more we "fundamentally spiritualize" ... the more tendency there is to trivialize matter ... call it a distraction ... a maya/illusion.
In other words the whole premise of mind as a knower ... is really only relative to how many times through this cycle of it's own minomered construct {about both order and chaos/matter and spirit}
.. that it finally goes through to get it ... that it is but it's own going through the motions that is blocking any true "yoke/yoga/ with it's own apparent conclusions... hence prayer/contemplation/meditation/reflection
To think that "science" can offer us knowlege without taking us further away from ones own inherent cogency ... is like thinking the faster you drive the more you can see.{the peripheral vision shrinks according to the greater proprtion of speed.}
Those who find it hardest to accept quantm principle are those who have the most momentum in "empirical thrust" {not sufficient internal reflective intuition to balance out such self-perpetuation}
Those with the most aversion to monetary reform are those that have the most profit momentum going from that system. {rich people commiting suicide during great depression as example
} chaos into order .. order into chaos ... you tell me.
Eating off the "biblical Tree of Knowlege {good and evil ... or any/all duality chaod-order /matter-spirit} is the very "judgement"{original sin} ...based on either side of the argument ...
spirit is good/celestial ... matter is bad/carnal ... or ... hedonism is great ... religion sucks ... Mysticism being beyond the pious and impious fruits of judgement/karma/inertia etc
As if "chaos causes order to loose it's cool" {so there} ... and then "order is so much better than chaos ... why it actually even looks like something... {take that}
Yet somehow or other anyone can simply quiet their mind to the point of containing, within awareness, any or all of these possible avenues, within a moment that supports neither as an actual premise.
Hence my comment to regulate science as utility only .. not as a knowledge gathering entity?authority ...{mental handy man}.. not "engineer of truth"
Science by definition can only know of it's own transition ultimately
So the less materially structured the motivation, or focused the mind {"dervish/derelict" }
... the more likey a true entheogenic experience of consciousness itself.... "whilrling"/wormholing ...through "all potential" {meekly inheriting the earth}
If we do not bite the fruit of conclusive judgement ... than the more integration we actually experience... the "tree of life" being the infinite ongoing exchangebetween these "poles of possibility" {chaos/order ... spirit/matter
The "tree of knowlege" is any attempt/temptation towards classification and categorization as if opposing poles of purpose {"Philosophy" - the affiliation with inner knowing ...or "Sophistry" the complexing of knowing outside onesself}
The less specialized the science ... the more unified field theory will manifest.
The less specialized interest in monetary policy ... the more overall good.people experience
.. the less obsession with order .. the less problem with chaos .. the less problem with chaos ... the less hankering for order.
The winged serpent will always be 'but one being ...
2012 ... the theoretical loss of time/space momentum after so much whiplashing of head and tail ... {chaos/order ... good/evil} ...over such a long period of time
Should prove to be nothing less than a very sobering "zero point field state moment"
... "going as it is becoming known"
... 'lest we reboot ourselves and start ... as if "again"
"knowing the mind ... or the mind knowing"
No ultimate dissolution into chaos ... just eternal transitioning into infinite versions of transformed substantiality
... chaos but the transitioning stage.{alpha to omega to 'but another alpha ...never homogenous dissolution into "nothingness/void".. but again, back to another alpha/zen moment after saturation in Tao/omega
In daily meditation one can find the micro-version of this qualitative ecstatic stasis ...all of our mech-tech/ sci-fi progress is heading to these conclusion at the top levels of Quantum thought , as well ...the omega of it's own alpha.
.. will likely be decades before integrated into present inertia ...the majority of scientific endeavor way behind .
.. but the path has been cleared ... "lest one mistake the tree{order/individual manifestation} from the forest {chaos/collective potential}
Well!
A first-hand experience akin to Jesus raising a widow's dead son or Lazarus would seem to put such experiencer in direct contact with an 'alternative' reality that should be probed more deeply.
That other than a 'Jesus' could induce such, maybe an alternative interpretation of what a 'Jesus' is supposed to mean. Or what?
What do we suppose 'good news' or 'gospel' is supposed to mean, friend?
Who worships a 'reporter', even a 'first' reporter?
Yet we tend to 'hero' worship first-doers.
Very rare that ancient doers mock themselves or deny any 'specialness'. They typically became 'kings' or 'favored' sons or daughters.
Yet, that is extant in the reports extant of Jesus, who mocked himself.
'Why call me good'?
'All I do, you can do, and greater things'.
'Go to my brothers and tell them: I go to my God, and their God, to my Father, and their Father'. Does this sound like 'Very God' giving advice? Otherwise: what's the point? What can be derived from such?
'Everyone who does my Father's will: they are my brothers, sisters and mothers'.
What you or anyone accomplishes: personal treasures. Not, necessarilly yer possession. What you or anyone has done: all can do. Not just good things, bad things too. But who aims after the bad? We want or desire, all of us, only good. And that we want that to be generally available insures against trespasses. Who will trespass, having all good within?
There is a difference between 'principles' and 'personalities'.
Those who want to restrict principle seem always to promote personalities and then the advance of 'knowledge' or 'understanding' is taken away from the trends of intelligence or communication of essential information towards a trend of 'power' that relies on not 'WHAT' we know, but 'WHO' we know.
The latter is very evil in deed. Not subject to any general force of LAW or JUSTICE.
The latter being a 'political', not 'spiritual' perception and belief-system.
As for 'Holy Spirit': you might know the origins of that? Or maybe not.
I think there are good grounds for thinking it refers to WHOLE-SOME-ness, not 'power' as of a cult.
You might have read the Hebrew Scripture, and where Jeremiah defines that Yahweh deems 'good' in chapter 9:23-24.
It refers not to ego, but a general principle, that even a bug possesses: BEING, LIFE, EXISTENCE (read 'I AM') with selection or personal will and thus of personal responsibility.
Not a 'partitioned' consciousness, but one, whole I AM-NESS. The WHOLE-I AM-spirit. And that 'spirit' or innermost fire: has not need that any mortal being should teach them. We have one teacher: being 'anointed' by first-hand experience of letting-forth these 'waters' or 'breath.'
'Out of their bellies will issue waters'. You know about that, right?
A 'christ' or 'anointed' one (do you not know that Saul the first 'king' or Israel was also called a 'christ'?) is not without error? So, this term of 'anointing' has more than one interpretation. That is why there is a difference between the 'christ of man' and the 'Christ of God'.
By their fruits shall we know them.
Before we claim to know about any 'sin' against a 'holy spirit', maybe we should also demonstrate by both word and deed: a complete understanding of what 'spirit' means and what 'HOLY' means? Right? Or what?
Nevertheless, lacking such intellectuality, I think many have undergone a profound experience in seeing and doing, but due to 'teachings', the proliferation or growth of that has been limited and circumscribed. There is a perfectly human history that presages in many instances advances away from restricted 'power' or 'powers' to an 'elite' or 'priestcraft' and 'priesthood' and 'kings' or 'queens' and so on.
We don't know what-all we are able to achieve in good ways and which in fact proceeds despite the 'leadership' principle or concepts we have bought-into. And it still proceeds and gobles-up everyday more and more despite all intelligence or information that might free us.
Jesus mocked this 'savior' principle. And the subversion of that 'Just One''s life has been set-up most exasperatingly as a foundation for strengthening the very 'enemy'. <>A means to preserve a system of political favoritism and the concept of limitedness as requiring political 'powers' or some historical 'provenance' as to 'authoricity' and 'diksha' or proliferation of limitations which Jesus called 'satan'.
'Everyone who knows my Father, hears my voice'.
Obviously the 'Father' signifies respect to CAUSE or a living principle.
'And the disciples told him: a man was healing in your Name (the name Jesus taught was 'I AM'), and we refused him. And he said: don't do that. Those who are not against us are with us.'
A tearful cry, and a repentant heart can be understood (as we believe your report) to be a way to fix what otherwise might be deemed by 'science' as 'unfixable' problems! By your personal effort: the dead arose!
Who knows what other great things, or greater things, might be accomplished by the same attitude and faith?
That is something to which I think it worthwhile to pay powerful attentions. Not to the dogmas superimposed upon it or which might limit such. I'd pray for more of that unique experience and less to what is, in retrospect and by association with cults, thought about it. Contact THAT directly and cultivate that and report back about that! By all means!
---------
Thanks
Yep. Good reading, fer sure.
And while we're trading advices for reading, have you any exposure to Lamsa's 'Peshitta'?
This is the Far Eastern or 'Samaritan' or Aramaic version of the 'Bible'.
A study of which can at least aid one towards understanding that many terms can be interposed so as to actually reverse meanings or make intended intelligence appear rediculous or nonsense.
http://www.peshitta.org/
I'm not one of those people who think 'all is okay' to do and that there is no evil. In attempting to refer to a famous Shakespearean quote, I misquoted writing: 'there is no sin, but thinking makes it so' above.
Here's a version:
" There is nothing either good or bad - but thinking makes it so"
Hamlet: Act Two, Scene two.
The operative term is 'thinking', a special property of man . . . ever on the edge of dilemma or conundrum and dichotomy. To choose, to choose!
We cast our lots or 'thow in' with one school of thought or another, maybe. But the nature of the WILL or the ever innocent heart perhaps deceived by words or clever reasonings will escape rather unscathed, I believe.
But should an ill will be developed and cultivated and appropriated WITH reason or even despite reason: that comes with some reaction, too. The so-called 'sin against the Holy Spirit'.
No biggy. Not terminal.
This is the most highly mistranslated verse in the New Testament in my view.
Some things we do are not issues of 'forgiveness' by anyone, just like when we stub our toe against a threshhold. The reaction is instantaneous and there is no one to blame nor any persecutor involved here but ourselves. We simply have ourselves to blame. Live and learn. There is not, therefore, even an issue of 'forgiveness' in such things or mistakes.
We've limited ourselves by thinking all mistakes are the fault of a 'devil' but never see 'self' as that 'devil'. And in another form of like extreme thinking we refuse to see, either, in that very self-same-self: savior. Yet this is the very joy of self and individuality. Or what? Are we puppets?
I think that is what Jesus was talking about and revealing. A law that he mocked the 'lawyers' about: you don't enter the Temple, and you don't let others enter, either!
Nobody can break in and steal unless the strongman of the house has first been bound up. Who can do that?
You can. We can. You do! We do! We do that to ourselves. WHO CAN FORGIVE SUCH SIN?
If we are missing the point by habit, who is going to release us, as from without!?
I'd really like to know the answer you might propose!
If we think alike at all the answer would be: we alone can forgive. And we have power to forgive all other sins, too. If we're big hearted enough. Bigger than a Solomon, even. Yet with all trespass forgiven as from without on ourselves: while forgiven, sin no more! is good advice.
I'm rather with you on some very important issues. I think them very practical and natural issues but since with us HUMANS with powers of thought and selection as that we might not do all that simply occur to our minds (like 'mind' is God: not!): we can select and reject and so build personal history and character.
And we can go back and expurgate past error, too! Sure! Why not? We merely restrain ourselves so as past mistakes no not recurr by WILLING them and DOING them. Just a simple 'NOT'!
Pretty difficult, though, I guess.
Yes. Not all things doable are 'good' or 'okay'. Obviously. Yet we all are self-informed by living.
It is encumbant on us to explicate our objections where community or social trends seem to trespass what we deem or sense as good.
We have the right and obligation to articulate accession or objection, or maybe even just say 'yes' or 'no'. Acceptable or Not acceptable . . . to us.
I'm with you on that point. I'm not going to give any 'amen' to any concept that says 'life' moves forward in 'all things'. Not at all. Some things go extinct. Whether rightly or not: unknown.
I select MY life and ways and protect my loved-ones in my own lights. And according to issues of accorded dictates of LAW. And that, the latter issue: LAW is a product of my contribution. If it is not right, and I think it not right and say nothing? I pay the price for silence.
I'm free to withdraw. And not be even seen or perceived. Right? Same for me? Same for you! If conscience has any power at all, we withdraw at a price! And conscience, I think, doesn't joy in such losses.
There is much I'm not with you on. Only minor things though. You have a good heart. That's obvious.
---------