The Roswell Rock
The Roswell Daily Record reports that a strange rock recently discovered outside Roswell, New Mexico may be an alien artifact. The small brownish rock, measuring less than two inches across, was found in September 2004 by a local businessman named Robert Ridge who discovered it while deer hunting in Cedar Hill, 17 miles away from the spot where a UFO supposedly crash landed near Roswell over sixty years ago.
The rocks odd shape, intricate carvings, and strange magnetic properites has sparked interest in scientists, anthropologists, ufologists, and even the town mayor of Roswell. The design on the rock appears to have been made with no discernible marks of drilling or cutting, which has caused anthropologists to be perplexed as to its possible origins. The image looks similar to some designs found in crop circles, with interlocking shapes of sun and moon that some have speculated may be showing lunar cycles and some kind of eclipse or astrological event. Some ufologists have pointed out a similarity between the design and certain crop circles which appeared at Liddington Castle hill, England in 1996.
According to the Roswell Daily Record, one anthropologist compared the rock to a lodestone—special rocks which are believed by some to have special magical properties. Some Native American tribes have historically used lodestones to heal illnesses such as headaches and snakebites, and are thought to be special protection against snakes. While scientists and anthropologists are unsure of the terrestrial or extraterrestrial origins of this uniquely crafted and magnetized rock, many of them agree that they've “never seen anything like it”.
Tristan Gulliford is a writer, dreamer, and aspiring myth-keeper who makes electronic music under the name "Dreamcode". He is currently attending the University of Colorado at Boulder.
- 7-15-08
- Tristan Gulliford's blog
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Liddington Castle crop circle
Here is the crop circle image from Earthfiles. You're right, they are *exactly* the same design.
http://www.earthfiles.com/Images/news/U/UKChisledon082006SAlo.jpg
So do you guys think this
So do you guys think this is for real? Unless I read of a verified scientific analysis of the rock I am going to assume it was simply carved using some sort of lathe. Seems like a hoax to me.
"The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of Understanding" -- The Kybalion.
Re: "if you read the article" by cj
To sleep, perchance to dream . . . that a more contradictory and perfunctory multiple-double entendre joke could be dreamed up in so few words . . . If I didn't have more self control, and had the intelligence to appreciate the humor, I might **** my pants laughing at this one! I will be very surprised if this isn't quoted someday by another Heinlein. What the ****?!?
God! I wish I had written that sentence! Maybe someday, I will. (A tribute to Whistler as an insult to Wilde.) No insult intended here, though. Genius. Pure genius.
Very Interesting
Thanks for this compelling comment, Richard. Can you recommend any further reading on harmonic damping?
Golden Mean
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Allow me to sound completely ridiculous.
Is there any possible way that this could be some kind extraterrestrial blueprint? The directions for building something using the applied golden ratios?
This is a completely uninformed shot-in-the-dark idea.
Does anyone have the mind to see this thing in three discernible dimensions in which the outcome would be some kind of mechanism or machine?
Not Good Enough
Not good enough at all, actually.
My problem is that the material shown in the photo looks exactly like a resin casting, and any competent craftsperson could replicate those markings.
This one has hoax written all over it. I can hardly believe the play given to it here.
www.farrfeed.com
Probably not a resin cast
Actually John, according to the information I've read, and an interview on Earthfiles.com with Robert Ridge who found the rock, he says that he has shown it to competent craftspeople and they have said they would have no way of physically reproducing the rock, with a cast or otherwise. The rock is also magnetized in an odd way, something that I imagine would be difficult for a craftsperson to replicate.
Crafts-people's challenge
Well, I don't know about that. While is impressive that in Howell's interview with James Constantopoulos, Ph.D, the artifact could 'pass muster' or appear to be a genuine rock.
He is a relevant expert in genuine rocks and crystals, but not necessarily a master of the arts of fakery.
In terms of the genuine article, or genuinely native stone, there are perhaps methods of taking such stone and intermixing them with various forms of the plastic arts or molded bodies. With a proper understanding of chemistry and vulconology, it isn't beyond the possibility of producing a "stone" that is no stone at all, but a product of plastic-art or artificiality.
It would not be necessary to melt quartz to produce such a "stone". The presence of crystalized quartz evidences this. A "fake" sandstone is not beyond methods currently extant by "earthlings".
Here is some relevant information: from:http://www.rocksandminerals.com/finder/H3.HTM
"Sandstone Sandstones are beds of sand that have been consolidated into rock masses. The grains are usually rounded and waterworn but may be more or less angular. The primary mineral of sandstones is quartz. If it contains significant amounts of feldspar, it is termed arkose. The grains are often bound together by silica, a carbonate (usually calcite), and iron oxide ( hematite or goethite), or fine-grained argillaceous material. The color depends largely on the cementing material. Those that contain iron oxide are red to reddish brown. Those containing silica or calcite as the binding material will be light in color, usually a pale yellow, buff or white to gray."
Here is a link that is relevant, too, because it pertains to the use of hydrofluoric acid, an "etchant" that can dissolve glass and quartz, and enable the expert artizan who might want to fake something, creat a composition that comports with the "stone" at hand:
Sandstone "dissolver": http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2006/0054325.html
At this point, I'm not so much interested in the "alienness" of this artifact, as the creation of it, and why the particular conformation of it is different from that of the crop circle noted by Howe and others.
All other sub-discussions aside, I think the math and physics that Merrick discusses much more interesting than whether or not this is a "sign" from outer-space people. We can know this: it is an artificial thing. No manner of manipulation of random chance will result in such a thing. It was made by someone with an awareness of both craft and mathematics or geometry. It is "man(kind) made.
Try and find old issues of "The Minerologist", and in its volumes, you will read of many of the arts and scientific knowledge that could easily have resulted in production of such a thing by us stupid earthlings. Some stuff in there that isn't even broadly known today by "experts". Easily passed over, because it was a journal of amateurs and hobbyists.
but of course
Robert, Robert, Robert.
Two things.
First, thank you so very much for introducing me to these concepts and providing some topical points from which to learn more. This is probably the most balanced and informative comment I've read on rs.com in a long time. Thanks again.
Second, Damnit Robert; I have enough to learn about already. You are a cruel taskmaster, sir, a cruel one indeed. This is going to keep me busy for a while. :P
-Furi
It seems you have managed
It seems you have managed to translate Drew Hempel's work into English, and for that I applaud you. I'd love to see your book too.
www.martialdevelopment.com
how will we use this information?
All material structure (including life) resonates from coinciding combinations of harmonic waves while the anti-harmonic proportions suggested by the above geometry suppress and even contains this resonance. Without a containing force, standing waves would not form and everything would simply fall apart.
Richard,
This is a beautiful description that reflects what I understand about the Kabbalistic idea of genesis and the Adam Kadmon. I can only wonder how this geometry will inform evolved human technology?
Thanks for your input here.
John
Back to Aether
Some of your observations are highly intriguing in reference to alternative models of planet evolution that evidently today are fully in the periphery of consideration.
It sounds a little like you are more of the Alfven school of cosmology than the big-bangists.
This makes sense to me, too, if so. How does that statement go? ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.
Ontogeny (embryonic development) and phylogeny (biological evolution) are said to be in "resonance".
It seems possible to also speculate that ontogeny recapitulates cosmogeny or differentiation and development of the galaxies, stars and planets.
A principle that can be, perhaps, carried too far, but also perhaps possessing probity by predictive accuracy or reflecting reality more closely than current popular models (the one or two given space in journals).
It seems possible to see in the distances of the planets and the idea of sound-waves or any form of waves originating from the sun and the calculated of the different stars from the galactic center a means for developing some ideas about space and the "ultimate" or "penultimate" medium(s) from which and through which stars are born and move.
The idea that the sun's energy values and varying temperatures are fully accounted for on purely intrinsic atomic activities doesn't seem to follow. At least, I don't understand the currently held conclusions. It does seem possible that the sun is transducing energy from outside sources.
The above concept of recapitulation also suggests a variant of the idea of the nebular hypothesis, in which a globular plasma can give birth to other orbs rather than from some putative concretion from a "disk". We can see from our neighbor Saturn, that such concretion doesn't seem to be taking place, and I can find no evidence from any model as to why a thin disk should at any time become discretized into orbs or planets or planetoids. We do see separations in axial form or differentiation of rings, but no tendancy to discrete orbular bodies. Thank you for some very interesting observations.
wombs within wombs
what you say, Rogerscott, makes a lot of sense as a fract[ic]al matter, too.
Exciting!
- Hearts & The Golden Ratio -
I recently learned from a lecture by the genius inventor Dr. Patrick Flanagan that the Golden Ratio has been empirically demonstrated as the harmonic structure of a loving heart's electromagnetic signature. For the same reasons that this phi ratio prevents any kind of harmonic cluttering, it also seems to support the healthiest amount of "noise" or "randomness" in heartbeat intervals (when the heart begins to beat too evenly, it trips over itself, basically a short-circuit or seizure, called fibrillation).
What MORE, this EM signature will ENTRAIN other hearts into the same pattern. Flanagan did this in the lab - he thought lovingly of his wife, and she (attached to identical equipment, but hundreds of miles away!) began to evince the same phi pattern in her heartbeat. Whatever is going on here, it's two things:
1) Generative of the precise balance between order and chaos necessary to support life and health;
2) Operative via some nonlocal quantum mechanism that allows it work irrespective of distance.
The real kicker for me was when Dr. Flanagan pointed out that since, if your heartbeat is in this healthy mode, it cascades into all kinds of other health benefits in the body - and the body and mind are connected, so the healthier your heart the better your mood.
He was proposing to have collected empirical support for Jesus Christ's "love thy enemy" tenet, because if you love your enemies their hearts, and if you entrain their hearts they feel good (and on a more or less conscious level may even recognize the feeling as associated with you), and if they feel good, they're less likely to harbor animosity. (How hard is it to hate someone when you are feeling great?)
Of course, the reverse, "black magic" side of this is also true: You can apparently entrain someone else's heart with deleterious frequency patterns - but of course only by entering them yourself. So in order to destroy your enemy, you too must be destroyed.
The Visionary Music of Michael Garfield
Crop circles are fascinating, but this....
So, I'm fascinated by crop circles and all the cool fractal designs, but this is a bit suspicious.
Call me a skeptic, but here's some rhetorical questions: why would aliens make something from rock, bury or hide it in the middle of the woods, and "encrypt" the message?
If they had something to say, why don't they dumb it down for us humans, and provide a color-coded, large-lettered pictogram-type user's manual, or at least something obvious that even a primitive species like us could understand. Remember Carl Sagan's plaque that went out into the yonder on the Voyager (and Pioneers, now that I checked)? We did better than this rock, that's for sure.
"Robert Ridge who found the
"Robert Ridge who found the rock, he says that he has shown it to competent craftspeople and they have said they would have no way of physically reproducing the rock, with a cast or otherwise."
Exactly my point, it's not verifiable. If I had created this rock I would also claim that I'd shown it to some experts who were "baffled".
"The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of Understanding" -- The Kybalion.
Richard Merrick
Thanks for your very interesting and insightful comments Richard. As you say the 'rock' may be fake but the math is not. When can we expect your work on harmonics to be available? As a lifetime fan of The Great Pyramid I knew of the relationship between the Earth/Moon and the Great Pyramid. I never knew there was a Pythagorean triangle in there as well. Nice graphics by the way.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C Clarke
Interesting discussion
Does it matter if it's alien?
"OK, here's the deal. There's science (boo! boo!), which has nothing really valuable to say about humanity (Yeah! Tell 'em!).
"And then there's me. <wild applause!> I'm going to lie to you, and I'm going to sing sweet songs to you, that'll make your heart melt, and show you new worlds. But it's all going to be all lies, a cover over the depravity of the world as it is, which we dare not look at.
"So pretend like you really really believe, believe really really hard, and find lots of arguments and reasons to believe, or at least find the reason why it doesn't really matter anyways, and the whole experience will be much more enjoyable."
This is the message that comes clear to me.
And it seems to me that -- by denying the importance of the question "What is real?", we are creating an intrinsic message, "The real is depraved, mundane, unfeeling, insensitive," and so on.
The question I care about is: "How do we find a state of consciousness, that is uplifting, creative, imaginative, inspiring, truthful, virtuous, and realistic, that is in complete accord with naturalistic commitments? (No quantum outs taken.)"
If we're not finding an answer to that question, or a question like it, then we are-- we are advancing the notion that reality is bad or undesirable; We're pulling on both sides of the chinese finger-trap.
So I advance a quest for mystical realism.
Identical to 1996 crop circle
The Power of Limits
...here's an excellent book with beautfully illustrated examples of the phi ratios presence in organic morphology...check it out, if you haven't already, Richard.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Limits-Gyorgy-Doczi/dp/0877731934
Thank You
Thank you so much for you insightful perspective Richard. I look forwrd to reading your book.
Anyhoo... i was just wondering if there were more of the 'rocks' OR maybe there are 'rocks' out there that maybe have markings and such similar to other outcroppings.
This is very intresting indeed. ALSO If it did come from perhaps another planet...are the moon(s) supposed to be like theirs or ours??? Is earth being stocked??? haha...jk... sorry about that just thought I should should add a little bit of humor in this discussion, not that it needs it. :]-live♥love♥learn♥laugh
its a lucky fishing weight...
Most rocks
First: the crop circle spoken of can be found for free at:
http://www.noufors.com/images/cc022.jpg
The references to Linda M. Howe's site are for 'subscribers', and will give 'access denied' to everyone else.
I have an open mind, but tend to see this as suspiscious. Not the least problem being it was found by a "business man" and promoted by a mayor of a town whose primary business is tourism revolving around a myth of "ufos" and "aliens".
I speculate: take a rock. Add some wax-image on top. Extend cracks in rock into added image. Make a cast of the 'rock-with-image'. Take some adobe, mix with iron, slurry it, pour into mold. Lightly bake, allow to dry. Extract. Bake at high temperature. Take 'brick', polish, age. Present as "rock". Why is the image finely finished, but sub-layer pitted and 'old looking'? Also: take any old rock, and take a strong mini-magnet, and nine times out of ten, the magnet will 'stick' to it.
Iron is common in almost any rock. Alternatively, one can take any appropriately shaped rock, and impose on it an image, leaving the other parts there in 'natural' character.
Sorry. This 'rock' doesn't cut mustard in many ways.
Rock Latest
Re: Rock Latest
Thanks for that link. It has become much more interesting, no doubt.
.
Is there anything special about the ratio of negative space surrounding the glyph? It looks off center to me. It just doesn't feel like "the smoking gun." It looks kind of crappy to be honest.
It'd be funny if the impression was made into the rock by the tripod legs that pop out of the ufo as it was landing ;)
Subtle things
Actually, I think I understand the "crappy" critique a little. I mean, however impressive the artifact is in terms of our inability to immediately explain it, there IS something crude about it. I felt the exact same thing. I have, obviously, since come to kind of admire it. But I'm, like I said before, open minded, and am working at restraining the 'criticism' thing . . . that ugly thing so easy to do . . . too easy. I can admire the thing for what it only is by visual examination of a jpg, a computer representation. And it isn't, by any stretch, as is, except for the natural parts: the pits, the ordinary "rock-ness" of the thing, again I say, it isn't some work by DaVinci or Michaelangelo.
It is a geometric pattern somehow welded to a rock or even part and parcel to a rock. And, again, I'm tending towards "earthling" craftiness. Very interesting. Not a miracle. Not a message from "higher dimensions". Not as a conclusion I would make. Not by a long stretch. Maybe something millions of years old, but if so, unique. Still: man-made. If that is an insult to any who want contact with higher dimensions, I can't see why. We have samples of ancient carvings of jade and quartz or obsidian that defy most modern-day craftspeople. It needn't mean we must jump to any conclusion these forebears knew about "lasers" or of some "masters" who could manifest objects from the "universal acqueous-gaseous" substance. Not that that is impossible.
Why is it so hard to resist certainty in areas about which we cannot speak from first hand experience? If one can speak from first hand experience, by all means. Speak. Otherwise . . .
Addendum: why it seems "plastic"
Just food for thought: the "circles" are not "perfect". They show what we see when we mold things of the various mold-able stuff, which upon baking, deforms. Round in the original "wet stuff" alters with drying. A rock, stiff and resistant to deformation by mere time, will not deform that way.
It is possible that the "carver", upon working the original rock, found that the execution of the design in the basement of the intention, found the "stone" didn't accomodate such perfection. Yet we can see with just the naked eye, the circles are not pure circles. They aren't mathematically perfect. Hence, the "crudeness". It looks like clay work. What else can one say? Even wood, bone or shell, aged amongst streams and salts of earth will become "stone", but their pattern is preserved in minute perfection no artisan yet has ever reproduced. This completely NON-understood process of "petrification" - - - despite what so-called "experts" hypothesize - - - isn't involved in this sample. So, while I find it highly interesting, even fascinating, I see in it all too much of * * in it. Again, apart from the deeper stuff of pattern and geometry and physics that have sprung from it, those discussions born of this "artifact" now have a life of their own. So we can at least thank the artisan for that. Prankster though he or she may be.
Also: thanks Gulliford for bringing this topic to our discussion forum
posted twice-erased redundancy --
"Addendum" was duplicated somehow. Sorry 'bout thet. R.
Prankster or whatever . . .
Well, it seems we can derive from your commentary, CJ, that you fully believe this "artifact" is a 'sign' or manifestation of ancient technology and wisdom. Maybe these ancient, all-wise people, just manufactured significant symbols of their "all-seeing-ness" and just tossed them on the road-side, and mass-production was such that they didn't really think about future seers or 'finders'?
They just produced 'products' and this one guy, this one particular circumstance of a 'finding' becomes signigicant because, about 9 years after a crop-circle of similar design indicates that some guy will find a "stone" as a PROOF? And you derive from this what?
Just assuming that such an "Atlantean" super-race existed, I presume they are no longer amongst us because . . . why? They harnessed anti-gravity, they knew about transmutation, they were "all-wise" but they are pretty much absent today because . . . why?
We are faced with several possible answers, and even innumerable different answers. It makes me think of the modern prediliction of interpertation of playing video "poker" or what have you. If you win, are you wise, are you lucky? Or are you engaged in a limited program whose primary purpose is taking from you your money? We cannot, by definition alone, derive any significant information about life from such things. It is akin to "Tarot" card dependancy, and dice tossing or reading the local paper's "horoscope". It's all about you. It's all about me. **. The "world" is much bigger than this. If it is so small, then, we may as well say there is no free will, we experience 'free-will' as an after-effect of prior planning. Some "over-seer". Not liking it, friend.
Is a rock with a pattern "raised" on it, some kind of 'proof' of prior or current advanced civilization, or is it some kind of 'bait-and-switch' thingy?
I personally don't think that any outer manifestation of 'sign' compares with an inner impulse towards intelligence and wisdom based on first-hand experience. I think it much better to hue true to what is at hand than to devote energy and faith in things like this stupid product of 'genius' of NO-DOUBT: person or persons. Big deal. Clever. Still a goad to externalism. Still a distraction from something deeper and more important. A distraction from something that abides regardless of outer 'sign'. It is nothing more than another form of 'miraclism' or **, writ "paranormal". If it is a "message", why not write it in some current language? Surely, these all-wise ones could predict what we use today to "talk" or write, right? Or do they only talk to mathematicians? And, we all know, math can be used, like the Bible, to answer all questions.
You are clever. I'm still not buying it. And, perhaps, I never will. Or maybe I will. But not today. Not by means of this.
======================
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT <
That could be
Yes, possiblye. Yet, I tend to see in any rock something significant. They tell us things. A walk down any dusty road will give us some pretty stones. Pretty soon, if we are acquisitive, we are weighed down. And if chance leads us to a stream, hopefully it's not so deep as to ask us to swim or we must be prepared to walk for some time under water with our hoard of talking rocks. And all rocks, I think, talk.
"NATURE'S SONG
I found an inspiration in a flower
A delicate and lacy little thing.
I came upon it in a waning hour
Beside a blue and crystal spring.
It turned my thoughts from cares of day
To nature's sweet and healing song,
And as I onward went my way,
The flower's image came along."
I note the image, but I'm gonna carry only the image and reflect on it with an open mind. The baggage that some want to attach to it? Gonna save my pocket space.
Chocolate?
Simonton et al.s
Yeah, there are some very interesting stories out there, no doubt. That his pancakes lacked salt is interesting. Totally lacked salt? We don't know. That is something rather hard to do. Salt can be found in almost any plant. Right?
Still, Simonton saw human beings. How they concluded he actually made pancakes himself and 'waking dreamt' this experience is something I'd like to know. Evidence. Simonton produced his evidence. Hynek et al.s, on what evidence did they base their conclusions?
Still, Simonton saw 'humans'. Short, but he described them as looking 'Italian'. Fascintating.
We know that some Italians worked on "discoid" crafts with German engineers. Not sure Italy had a similar program but it seems possible there was a commerce there in the Axis. Secret programs of course, but well documented today.
Mudane answers still available to us before making certain conclusions from scanty evidence. First hand experience on the other hand, that's full of interesting stuff ripe for speculation and, I guess, all speculation is fair with unknowns.
======================
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT