Reality Sandwich Withdraws from Peru Retreat
Reality Sandwich will no longer be involved with the retreats at the Chimbre Center, and Daniel Pinchbeck and Ken Jordan will not be attending them. For questions regarding arrangements for retreats at the Chimbre Center, contact Alvin (at) Chimbre (dot) com.
We were extremely encouraged by the level of interest in the retreats expressed by the RS community, and will be finding better aligned partners for other retreats in the future. Stay tuned.
Update (March 2, 2010): At this point, there are 330 comments in this thread, and counting. It's been an amazing discussion, and we're blown away by the intense level of interest and support expressed by the RS community. We want to thank everyone who has contributed to this conversation -- we've learned a lot from it. And we particularly appreciate Rob's openness and vulnerability, as he has shared his healing process in an open, transparent fashion. This thread has been a remarkable demonstration of the value of open dialog, and its ability to involve and inform a community that cares.
Now it's time to turn the page. Rob remains a friend and one of Evolver's investors. We support what he's trying to do with Chimbre, and wish him and his team success with it. Daniel, Ken and Rob are committed to a healing process, of one kind or another. But we reserve the right to keep that process private, as is appropriate between real friends.
From our perspective, the disagreement was not about money. It was about Evolver maintaining control over its own operations and editorial independence. We realize now that the best way to ensure that independence, and to stay aligned with the values that are central to this community, is to turn to you for support and greater participation. We'll soon be launching membership in the Evolver Social Movement, and hope you will join us in realizing the evolution.
- 2-24-10
- Reality Sandwich's blog
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What now?
These things happen
www.thefourgates.com
I've organised group trips to various centres in Peru to work with ayahuasca and San Pedro for the last several years and I've never found a centre where I could guarantee the quality of the ayahuasca, shamans or healing that I would demand from any centre I myself was running.
Similarly I imagine that the centres I have worked with found me demanding and saw me as some outside 'gringo' trying to dictate how things should be to 'those who know best'. But hey, I'm there for the benefit of my participants and the centre is there for the benefit of itself, its shamans and the people who go there for healing.
So we're all right - and if you can meet as a partnership you can make it work and 'artistic differences' become opportunities for growth on all sides from which participants can benefit.
My worst Amazon experience was at the Temple of the Way of Light last year when the owner, Matt Watherston, doubled my fee to take a group there in order to cover his financial losses at the centre two weeks before the group was due to arrive in Peru - and then provided average to bog standard service throughout our stay.
So it happens, I know (and I'm not saying Chimbre did or would do this or that RS had grounds for withdrawing - I dont know and dont want to know what happened. Im just saying it does, I know).
As a result of my own experiences I have now set up my own healing centre just outside of Iquitos so I can better control the quality of the ayahuasca we serve and the shamans we use as well as the service we provide so the real point of this post is just to say that there is an alternative if you want to try ayahuasca or need the healing it provides.
We offer retreats year-round and are also working with the International Conference on Amazonian Shamanism and running a number of workshops at our centre and we'd be glad to send you details.
I've no axe to grind. I've been invited by Chimbre to run courses there and I've contributed to RS (see 'Heaven and the Hummingbird') so I'm literally just saying... if you've wanted to attend the RS event, or booked your plane ticket or you're on your way and now found that it's cancelled give us a shout.
Email Tracie - racieh@yahoo.com - and she'll answer your questions and can make a booking for you.
Peace.
And I hope you resolve this in a good way.
R
Other Venues
You'll have to feel it out for yourself, but these folks seem legitimate. I like that they both have social missions to drive the offering of their services. A start, at least:
http://www.templeofthewayoflight.org/
http://www.sapaninka.com/
What now?
Head for Cusco and look up the Quechua shaman Kush. He has a shop in the San Blas
district behind the cathedral off of the Plaza de Armas. He is authentic and performs
the Ayahuasca cermony in an isolated cabin above Cusco for a reasonable fee.
Suggestions for Facilitators and Centers
Laxmiqueen
So happy to hear there is so much interest in the RS/Evolver community for rich journeys inner and outer. I have 18 years experience with the Aya medicine, and take groups to Peru regularly. I am not affiiated with the two centers suggested below, therefore my assessment is based on objective experiences of myself as a participant and/or positive reports from close friends:
Ayahuasca-Wasi in Pisaq or Temple of the Way of Light are highly recommended.
ayahuasca retreat
Cleland,
I have been in Peru 3 times now and on my last trip I was in Iquitos and did ayahuasca. I can tell you a very reputable places to go. (http://www.ayahuascafoundation.org/ It is near Iquitos.
Talk to Carlos Tanner in email or by phone.
Janet
What to Do
Hello Cleland.
The best thing for you to do if your looking for the experience and are still going is to quickly network on the Ayahuasca Forum.
The link is http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/index.php
They, we, are all serious - mature minded people who share this common interest. Explain your situation and i AM SURE you will be lead in the right direction.
Good luck on your journey. I am sure it will be nothing less than fantastic.
-Tom
My Friend, Ralph Miller
My Friend, Ralph Miller runs a very well organized ayahuasca workshop in Brazil with a top notch shaman. I was disheartened to hear that Heart of the Initiate had fallen to the current economic times.
Perhaps Daniel and Reality Sandwich could team up with Heart of the Initiate and resurrect a great venue to experience ayahuasca in a safe and comfortable environment.
If there is any interest please contact Ralph at Heartoftheinitiate.com.
Please note that I have no financial affiliation with Ralph or Heart of the Initiate.
Michael
My own retreat in PEru
I feel sad the trip isn't going to happen however I have decided to look on this as an opportuntiy rather than a disapointment. I too have an airline ticket but was on the fence wether i wanted to travel with others or not. I have decided to book into a jungle river ayahuasca drinking trip with Peter Gorman in June then stay somwhere else for a week or so maybe Refugio Altiplano. I will then travel out to Cusco and Bolivia from there. This time I feel a stronger pull to connect directly with the plants than with people who talk about plants and going out into the real jungle with Peter feels right. I also know once i am down in Iquitos i will find that solid place and the perfect Shaman or Shawoman to facilitate more journys. I am hoping you all find what you are looking for in this opportunity for change.
????????
what's up?
Hey Cleland
You can check out Diego Palma and friends in Pisaq, near Cuzco. They run a beautiful ceremony and hold a great vibration. www.ayahuasca-wasi.com
Alternatively, if you're located near Iquitos, you could get in touch with Espiritu de Anaconda. The ayahuascero's name is Guillermo Aravelo and you may have seen him in documentaries like "Other Worlds". http://www.espiritudeanaconda.org/open1E.html
Wherever you end up, peaceful and insightful journeys!
Diego Palma
Ah yes. Diego Palma is highly reccommended. You can get to his center from Cusco by inexpensive taxi
also good
Cleland,
This is also a very good retreat. I have been there. They are very reputable and the place is quite nice.
When you are in Iquitos, however, watch for caymen (gators) even in shallow water.
One came out of the water and ate this little stray dog when I was in Iquitos.
However, the retreat is run by a well known Shaman known as Guiermo. Best in the business of ayahuasca.
Janet
I'm extremely sorry
I'm extremely sorry but I don't think its proper to go into details at this point in time.
When you are dealing with shamanism and sacred plants, you have to be extremely sensitive to how all sorts of nuances and especially relationships are handled. We don't feel that we can guarantee people will have the experience in the right context here.
I know that is maddeningly vague.
This is also extremely disappointing for us as we put a huge amount of time and effort into this retreat, hoping to develop a long and good relationship with Chimbre.
The good part is that we now know the interest and the demand is there from our community.
The next time we offer an opportunity similar to this one, it will only be because we know and feel in our hearts it is the absolute right situation.
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
Cancelling
Better Next Time
Propaganda Anonymous
I am super sorry to hear about this.
I wasn't going to attend, but I had high hopes for everyone
who was.
Better to do this now, than stuff going really bad on retreat.
Good Luck with the next one!
The video of Jose Vargas
chimbre
sincerely
'Sicnerely ROb'
If you're going to be sincere you could at least spell it properly. ;)
?
unfortunately
Unfortunately, we have now been threatened with legal action if we express our point of view.
I can't tell you how incredibly depressing and disappointing this is for me and our staff.
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
Chimbre
To be clear Chinbre's opening is going ahead. RS was one of many Guests. Since I am an investor, I was simply doing my part and helping out friends. Dennis McKenna and Dr. Luis Eduadro Luna among other guests will be in attendance. Chimbre will continue to sponsor people who need the medicine. We will also continue to sponsor volunteers. We practice what we preach.-rob
Ps. This event is 100% produced and financed by Chimbre staff.
"Ps. This event is 100%
"Ps. This event is 100% produced and financed by Chimbre staff". So the event is on you? Sign me up.
What Happened
Ken. Maybe you should
clarification
Agreed
Rob, we feel the same. Please drop your threat to sue us.
Ken, As i mentioned, All I
Whatever the reasons, it
Be careful in your choosing....look for reputable tour.
a good book on the subject
off topic... prophets conference remote viewing
Here's an account of the remote viewing exercise
http://2012rising.com/article/2012-tipping-point-prophets-conference-can...
Firstly the audience tried to identify an object hidden in a bag on stage using remote viewing - 'After the experiment concluded many people confirmed clear hits. In fact one chap with no psychic experience had a drawing (Mr Sanders) that was absolutely spot on'
Then there was a group remote viewing of 21-12-2012. -
'... we used some of the same words to describe what we saw in 2012 such as an ‘overcast sky’. Several of us however gave similar reports of some kind of atmospheric problem or darkening of the daytime sky where we were. Several of these reports were in the UK and the USA. Several people described meteorites in the sky or coloured lights like fireworks, though when pressed it did not seem odd that this was occurring in the middle of the day. This fitted well with my own sense that some events had already being going on for several weeks previous to this date and that a major event had already hit the world scene with negative consequences for many. There was also a sense that the future looked positive and a strong sense of community was emerging. There was also agreement from many that they had moved home to more rural locations, I too had sensed this. There was a general sense from many of a major negative event, or series of events had hit the planet and were now behind us.'
I would have been more skeptical of these views believing them to be merely the subconcious beliefs of the viewers had it not been for the seeming sucess of the first experiment.
My article
Thanks for posting this section of my review and the link. The success in the first experiment certainly gave me confidence in the 2012 viewing attempt. Interesting too was that nobody seemed to come out with either of the two most likely mental fabrications. By this I mean nobody reported seeing armageddon or global enlightenment.
Bruce Fenton: WebMaster @ www.2012Rising.com
Over the past three years, I
Over the past three years, I think most everyone that has come to the site knows we do our best to be clear about what's happening and to have an open forum around topics. Unfortunately, due to a threat of a law suit, we can't talk about what happened. But I hope our commitment and integrity over this time to create a positive transformational community both online and in more than two dozens regionals will suffice in saying that this turned out in the end not to be a journey we felt comfortable bringing our community on. We are all extremely disheartened by these events and hope to have some healing around them. We were very excited about the prospects of sharing a ceremonial healing journey with all of you in the Amazon, and intend to find a retreat that is more in-tune with our intentions sometime in the future. Thanks to all of you for your love and support over all this time, even during this difficult moment.
Blessings,
Jonathan
Hi Jonathan: "this turned
I totally agree. Let's end
I just think that we should
feel free
Hi Rob,
Please feel free to elaborate on the financial disagreement if you want, as long as you will allow me to respond from my perspective without there being any threat of future legal action.
best,
daniel
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
Daniel, I think we have all
Maybe they're just grown up
Rob - why not let them voice
I am happy to discuss
collaboration
Hey Rob, I'm reading through these comments as someone who has, really, no knowledge of what "exactly" went down between all of you. I am good friends with the RS crew and am a contributing editor on the site. I have written a book about my healing experiences with ayahuasca and also have written about some of the difficulties of of the shamanic "industry" (lodges, business negotiations, etc).
I want to point out something I see that doesn't feel right to me. I don't want to step on your toes, Rob. I sense your frustration, call for honesty, and feel, also, your desire to do right by El Chimbre. I will keep your project in my prayers today and this week.
Throughout this exchange it seems like you've got something you are pretty angry about, or that you feel like RS is hiding. If that's the case, then wouldn't it be hard for RS to share their feelings/perceptions of the exchange, here, if their is a looming threat over them speaking publicly about these things? Yet, you keep demanding (I think) that they be "honest" about what happened. It seems like what you are actually asking for is an admission on the part of RS that they are somehow in league with something dark, or purely "monetary" or "greedy" or something like that.
Sometimes, it's not so much what went down by the letter of the law (emails, texts, etc), but the emotional responses and reactions that people have to those exchanges that truly reveal why something isn't complementary (in terms of two different paths lining up). What I don't see from RS is anything, publicly, that suggests anything about Chimbre being something dark (as you accused RS to be on facebook). The RS post here seems to me just a general "these paths aren't alligned post" given to the readers as a cancellation notice. But it seems like your response was to jockey for power over the details of the parting (who rejected who, first, or who is truly on the "dark path").
The implication I'm making is that your reactivity, pronouncement about RS' darkness on your FB page, and legal threats don't represent the heart of what you've got going at Chimbre, or what the medicine vision should be for the greater communities we're helping to create. Right? Again, not trying to be a jerk. Just trying to call it like I see it.
So, just consider, at least in part, that it is your emotional reactiveness and fixedness that some exact "thing" went down that is 100% as you say it was (that RS is also not allowed to speak about since you are making legal threats), that is preventing you from getting this honesty you want from Daniel and Ken. And maybe this reactive element of your personality had some underlying part in the entire event, too? I'm just saying this because it always helps me to pull the plank out of my own eye while I'm evaluating how things went down with other people (there's always two sides).
Finally, and I don't mean to sound trite, but if many of us are all working with the medicine, and to some degree opening our hearts and minds to God's love (or the universe or grandmother or the daime or Pappa Tua), then perhaps this very exchange, in an open forum, without any kind of threat to harm each other, is exactly what the medicine community at Chimbre and RS/Evolver is in some way asking for? Perhaps this exchange is the exact collaboration the medicine has been orchestrating, through your kind-hearted financial donation, to any mistakes, perceived "demands", or insensitive communications on the part of anyone here at RS, to some of your suggestions (like on your facebook) that say that RS is harboring some kind of dark energy or that Ken and Daniel are "lying."
Maybe this exact unfolding is what we all stood in line for? Not for Chimbre or for RS's benefit or loss, but for thousands of readers who have drank the medicine, who are interested in drinking the medicine, and who are watching to see how some of the "public" leaders of this transformational culture can find honesty and integrity together?
Anyway. Those are my two cents. Lots of love, and I hope you receive my thoughts well, Rob.
peace--Adam Adam Elenbaas
Can you see that you have a bias, Adam?
You insinuate that Rob has thrown all the jabs here, and that RS has been totally passive in this exchange, yet Jonathan has impugned Robs’ professional reputation and by implication the safety of his encampment to members of the RS community, and perhaps others, by stating “this turned out in the end not to be a journey we felt comfortable bringing our community on.” This implication appears to be one that Rob considers a threat to the success of his business and his livelihood.
You believe in your heart that you have no bias, yet you yourself are demonstrating a particular blindness to what has been said by both parties.
There is much more here than meets the uninformed person's eye, so how can we take such a sure-footed position so quickly?
50k doesn't buy the truth
Healing
Amen brother
You've got the best post on this shocking debate. I already paid 1/2 up front to go to this retreat and I'm very sad about this.
It must be a lesson to us all about the power of money. Yes, Love and Blessings to All....
Rangers Lead the Way,
Ronin
Perspectives
I wanted to mention things along the lines that Adam did - well put, Adam. Like most of the folks here, I'm not on anyone's side. I would just like to see this resolved by applying what we've all learned in our conscious growth instead of resorting to the bottom line.
It's very likely that this situation involves good people on all sides, it sounds like the issue is certainly around money and not much else, but what does money represent in this situation? Who's right and who's wrong? My way or the highway? There are pieces missing in this story that are vital to achieving clarity. Follow reactions to find the roots of the real problems.
The inclusion of the legal system in this whole situation is what begs questioning, given that the legal system represents an external authority structure that functions outside of the parameters of authentic, honest, and integral relationship between people. It's a weak position if "legal action" has to be declared, and it's hard to believe that the folks at RS aren't willing to do the work to sort out the details of disagreement, even if it ends in disagreement.
These are the situations that we all face as we search for ways to create a meaningful and beautiful world of whole, integral people living meaningful lives and having meaningful relationships. Please try to understand instead of judging and condemning.
Thank you all you are very