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Psychedelics and Nutrition: Carnivorous Cultures vs. Fungal Cultures

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One of the positive side effects of psychedelics is their ability to improve one's nutritional habits. Albert Hofmann relates in his book LSD: My Problem Child how extraordinarily his sense of taste was enhanced after his first LSD trip. The experience of great excitement one gets when biting into carrots or lettuce after a psychedelic experience -- sensing their rich sweetness -- is tantamount, for me, to eating for the first time after six days of fasting. Suddenly, each fruit and vegetable regains its original heavenly taste, as though we are experiencing, for the first time, the real taste of food.

 

Psychedelic Eating

Psychedelic experiences tend to change our relation to food in many other ways. Ayurveda and other spiritual traditions recommend performing a ceremony prior to eating: contemplating the source of your food, and conveying thanks for having given its life so that you can live.

Ayurveda also teaches us to dedicate our full attention to the food we are eating, in a manner befitting the act of sacrifice, while receiving the life of the food: not to talk while eating, not to watch television or read the newspaper, to eat in meditation, in concentration. Mindless eating is a sort of barbarism, like mindless murder. 

Psychedelic experiences tend to change our relation to eating in a way parallel to that recommended by a number of spiritual traditions. Devouring food during a psychedelic experience, or shortly thereafter, bestows wholly new dimensions on the act of eating. I remember a special moment when, before consuming a grapefruit, I saw its glowing vivaciousness for the first time. I held it for minutes, which seemed like eternity: fondling it, inhaling its rich scent, feeling it alive and pulsating in my hand. I remember the moment of peeling its skin, which reminded me of defloration -- only much enhanced since our intercourse was totally unique and would happen only once, and end with our complete and irrevocable unification. The red flesh of the grapefruit was exposed for the first time to the light, and while I stripped away its skin, I intently watched its composition -- tens of thousands of miniature succulent fruit pieces interlaced into what seemed like a huge crimson wing, composed of myriad translucent membranes.

That feeling of endless intimacy that I shared with that grapefruit is difficult to describe. I felt as though it was the first time in my life that I was actually seeing what I was putting into my mouth, and this tremendously enhanced the experience of eating.

I ate together with friends, and the act of sharing the food reminded me of the act of grokking, which Robert A. Heinlein so famously describes in his book, Stranger in a Strange Land. I was not only eating the food, I was becoming one with it. The concept of eating finally received its full meaning -- as a mystical ceremony, an act of uniting, a sacred deed accompanied by the categorical imperative to completely change and give full respect to the food that I eat.


Pyschedelic Nutrition

I do not mean to claim that every person who will use psychedelics will change his nutrition. Of course, you can use psychedelics and still eat indiscriminately. One of the common impulses after a psychedelic experience is to run directly to the nearest hamburger stand. You can fall victim to it once, or even for many years, but a serious user of psychedelics will often start receiving messages which call upon him to: 

1. Stop destroying your body with harmful nutrition. -- Malignant nutrition is the continuation on a personal level of the ecological pollution caused by the human race. 

2. Stop taking the lives of others. -- Develop a moral basis to your nutrition. Start eating consciously -- because barbaric eating is the basis of barbaric existence. 

Eventually, although many might disagree, the use of psychedelics is -- in my eyes -- incompatible with eating meat, or to be more exact, with eating the industrial meat grown in cattle concentration camps and consumed today in larger doses than at any other time in our civilization's history. A person who is in close contact with the mushroom (or other psychedelics) will eventually receive, again and again, that same message which calls upon him to forsake this path. He can ignore it once, twice, or even a hundred times -- but with many people, the message will eventually be heard. One stops eating meat or limits meat consumption one way or the other; I have seen this happen many times. 

Amusingly, even those opposed to the use of psychedelics are aware, in some distorted way, of their influence on our eating habits. This Anti-LSD film from the sixties tells the story of a girl who takes an LSD trip for the first time and goes to a hot dog stand, ready to shove a hot dog voraciously into her mouth, but after she drowns her hot dog with ketchup and mustard she hears a voice. Suddenly she sees the hotdog as a living creature, and the creature begs her not to eat her and take her life. For the makers of the film, this awakening sensitivity is clear evidence for LSD having driven the poor girl crazy.
 

Carnivorous Cultures and Shroom Cultures

This brings me to the modern meat-addicted consumer society. While the mushrooms ban the eating of meat, carnivorous society bans the eating of mushrooms. Eating meat and eating mushrooms present, so it seems, two basically opposed cultural alternatives. 

While the psychedelic alternative signifies the potential for a society based on awareness of our body, our ecological surroundings, and our fellow people, the meat society is a society based on: 

Destruction of the Body -- Eating red meat is, according to many clinical studies, one of the prime factors contributing to cancer, heart problems and many other medical complications. 

Ecological Damage – The UN has already declared that the gigantic mass of cattle which is being grown on planet earth, and the great amounts of methane gas emitted by these animals, is one of the chief reasons for global warming. 

Economic Damage -- Caused by the growing medical expenses to take care of millions of meat-stuffed citizens suffering from cancer, heart problems and other medical complications caused by the excessive eating of meat. 

Moral Damage -- The meat society is based on the mass-killing of life kept in concentration camp conditions. This society, based on sin, cannot help but be a basically violent society -- and this is without getting into the more abstract interpretations the various spiritual traditions give about the negative influence of meat-eating. 

In comparison to the millions who die because of meat eating, the number of deaths caused by psychedelic mushrooms sold in Amsterdam during the years of legal purchase amounts to no more than a few dozen. (These tragic cases could have also been easily avoided, since in the vast majority of cases, users were hurt because of the inherently false capitalistic model in which the mushrooms were sold, which meant that people consumed mushrooms without deep knowledge, and while violating the basic laws of the intelligent use of psychedelics.)

Despite this overwhelming data, our society prohibits psychedelic mushroom eating and allows, or even advocates, the eating of meat. For the carnivorous society which sanctifies the values of war and carnage, the harmonious values of the mushrooms are an intimidating alternative which must be suppressed at any price, because they might raise questions about the entire carnivorous civilization, and its values of force and authority. 

Eating meat and eating mushrooms are more than just two nutritional options -- they are cultural alternatives, different modes of thought: of relating to the body, to nature, to the other. As long as our society chooses to fortify the former by supporting monstrous corporations dedicated to the raising and killing of cattle, and ban the latter with billions of dollars spent on the “war on drugs,” it cannot pretend to be surprised about the bad shape in which our planet and culture find themselves.

 

 Image by TheTomis, courtesy of Creative Commons license.

Comments

Spiritual Elitism

This post contains nothing but tired old talking points, conjecture, fantasy, and no evidence to back it up whatsoever. If the author had actually studied psychedelic or mushroom cultures around the world, then he/she would know that most of them eat meat on a regular basis and are not like the few, strict ayahuasca and mushroom cults that exist mostly in South America. Mushrooms and meat are incompatible? From where does the author source this theory? This article is nothing more than a vegan/vegetarian elitist viewpoint using psychedelics as a foundation for food-based elitism and extremism. Yes! Of course eating meat is the cause of all of society's problems and chaos! I get it now! I see the light! Articles like this reek of the same elitist, guilt-tripping, morality pushing tactics as (insert Christianity, Scientology, etc. here). Think for yourself and question authority. Especially question the perceived authority from your own brain telling you generalizations and delusions. Using psychedelics and eating less meat might be steps toward a healthier society, but guilt-tripping, moralizing, and giving people invented, delusional dietary reasons to feel self-righteous or morally superior with no actual evidence to back it up defeats the original cause.

Spiritual Elitism

Excellent article, and, as opposed to the experience of rfkaiser, did not conjunjure feelings of guilt in me. Yet another case of "blame the messenger" so common in a society whereby individuals refuse to take responsibility for their participation in the unsustainable system we have built for ourselves.

Elitism??

I didn't find it really that elitist at all. His opinion was based off of medical studies, and off of observations we can all confirm ourselves. Me and my spouse are not part of any rigorous mushroom or ayahuasca cult, but eating mushrooms definitely did have that exact effect on us. We strictly regulate our meat consumption and eat more healthy in general. Cattle raising has also destroyed so much habitat all over the globe. I have thought about it before, but doing psychedelics really brought the realization close to home.

Elitism

1. What medical studies is the opinion based on? 2. From above: "...observations we can all confirm ourselves..." In other words, hearsay and speculation. 3. I don't doubt the benefits of either eating mushrooms or lessening the consumption of meat. What I do doubt is the author's scholarhood. 4. What is being presented as a medical and healthy position is no more than a biased, unfounded opinion. 5. Yes, the mass raising of cattle has major environmental impacts, but that does not justify the self-righteous attitude of the author. We can all do better for the world if we would all stop feeling so great for doing so little. We could especially do better if people who don't yet know of the impact of their lifestyles aren't morally condemned for their ignorance. Condemning the ignorant for being ignorant, and saying that meat is the cause of the world's problems is the epitome of ignorance.

But...

If condemning the ignorant and elevating yourself through your own self-righteous delusions is your thing, then go for it.

Perspective indeed

Yes, and everyone continues to ignore criticisms of the article because it appeals to the "wisened pyschonaut" mentality. Like I said numerous times, I am not criticizing eating mushrooms or lowering meat intake. I am criticizing self-righteousness, and lack of evidence brought forth to support conjecture. Please respond with something that actually addresses my criticisms, instead of "well, I've been eating mushrooms for years and they tell me meat is bad!" I've had the same thing communicated to be by mushrooms. I do not argue with that wisdom. I do argue with trying to present unvalidated and unsupported conjecture as a valid argument.

BTW

"...many people take these psychoactive substances and never have the same kind of transformational experience..." Exactly, it is a matter of perspective. Not everyone will receive the no meat communication through mushrooms. The article says they will while making inflammatory remarks about carnivores. From the article: "Mindless eating is a sort of barbarism, like mindless murder." "a serious user of psychedelics will often start receiving messages which call upon him to: 1. Stop destroying your body with harmful nutrition. -- Malignant nutrition is the continuation on a personal level of the ecological pollution caused by the human race. 2. Stop taking the lives of others. -- Develop a moral basis to your nutrition. Start eating consciously -- because barbaric eating is the basis of barbaric existence. Eventually, although many might disagree, the use of psychedelics is -- in my eyes -- incompatible with eating meat. Pure conjecture

spiritual elitism? I think not

As for there being "no evidence" that a vegan diet is healthiest for humans and the planet, nothing could be further from the truth. Here are some quotes and books you should read before so quickly (and ignorantly) defending the indefensible slaughter and slavery of animals:

“The most potent killers of humanity since the dawn of civilization have not been warfare, natural disaster, or starvation; they have been epidemics resulting directly from animal husbandry. The desire for meat, fish, fowl, eggs and dairy products has been one of humanity's most dangerous desires.” -p.49

“The major threats to human life since 8500 B.C. - microorganisms and viruses such as smallpox, influenza, tuberculosis, malaria, plague, measles and cholera-... all have something of importance in common: each evolved from a disease in domesticated animals that then adapted to, and infected, human societies.” -p.46

“The real culprits in most modern-day health problems are excesses of cholesterol, fat and protein from animal products not deficiencies. It is the subtraction of these excesses that will solve most of the problems, not the addition of medications or supplements.” “Many cardiologists are fond of telling their patients with high cholesterol levels that they shall “need to take [pharmaceutical] medication for the rest of your life.” But an exhaustive review of the scientific evidence found that excesses of fat and protein, particularly of animal origin, together with excesses of refined carbohydrates and recreational drugs [mainly alcohol and tobacco], were at the root of the disease.”

“Cholesterol is found in all foods of animal origin, including meat, fish, fowl, eggs, and dairy products. Plant based food contains zero cholesterol... Controlling dietary excesses [by adopting a vegan diet] is clearly the key to preventing cardiovascular disease... No medication or nutritional supplement additive has show even remotely equivalent success... errant solutions seem [to many people] more plausible than the truth – the fact that what we need to do is subtract meat, fish, fowl, eggs, dairy products, alcohol and tobacco from our diet.” -p.56

"Campbell [The China Study, see below] and colleagues demonstrated that it is not protein per se that determines cancer development, but that it is animal protein that is the primary culprit... and to his surprise, Campbell has discovered that the primary protein of dairy products -- casein -- appears to be the most aggressive promoter of all." -p.134

These are all quotes from the excellent book “The Pleasure Trap” by Douglas Lisle, Ph.D. & Alan Goldhamer, D.C. which I highly recommend. This information is obviously very crucial for humanity, and I believe may be indicative of a karmic process operating as well on the personal and collective levels. Please share this with others and seriously consider going vegan, it's good for you, the planet and of course, the animals.

 

Links for other related excellent books:

The China Study

Diet for a New America

Vegan Diet as Chronic Disease Prevention

The World Peace Diet

 

A very informative documentary:

http://www.raw-wisdom.com/earthlings

 

Other quality sources of crucial info:

 

"Why Animal Rights?"

"Why Vegan?"

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" Mahatma Gandhi

Peace

ayahuascero's raw vision

I was doing work once in Costa Rico with Pablo Amaringo, a noted Peruvian shaman. He told me that one of his ayahuasca visions said that the healthiest way to eat was a raw-live vegan diet.

I was shocked, because at the time I was very into eating raw. He was equally shocked when I told him that is how I eat because he had never heard of or met anyone who actually eats raw.

It seemed to confirm the fact for both of us that raw-live (or at a minimum vegan) is an evolved way of eating.

Smoking, Psychedelics, and Meat

Taking LSD led me to quit smoking. Not all at first, but it got to the point that when I tripped I couldn't inflict harm on myself by smoking corporate cigarrettes. When I came down, I reverted to smoking, but the initial insights and impetus to quit came during a series of trips. I believe that psychedelics can show us ways to be healthier. In the case of smoking, it seemed absurd to do while in that heightened state of mind. 

I'm not convinced though that all of our problems evolved directly from animal husbandry. It seems to me, that AGRIBUISNESS, as opposed to a farmer being a husband to land and animal, IS destructive. No matter what we eat, something has to be sacrificed. The separation of eating from issues of life and death only shows a further separation from our connection to the Land and to Nature in general. To eat only plant food cultivated from fields still causes animals to die because the flora and fauna of that field have been displaced to farm it. As living beings we will never get around the fact that other things have to die for us to live, whether we eat only plants or not. And, as rfkaiser pointed out, many indigenous cultures eat meat and ingest some kind of psychedelic. Perhaps people who are more directly involved with their own subsistence don't feel weird guilt about what they eat because they actually have a connection to it, more thatn just picking it up at the supermarket. It is my feeling that psychedelics will show us where we are disconnected from life. In the society I live in (U.S.A...) those disconnections are many fold. Being a vegetarian myself, sometimes I wonder if my ability to be one, isn't in part, a by product of living in an affluent culture. I don't claim to have any answers, but I do think that psychedelics, and the entities that inhabit them, generally have an anti-corporate agenda.

Response

Ok, first, Satyagrahi, I did not say that there is no evidence that eating less meat is not a good thing. As a matter of fact, in every single one of my posts, I conceded that fact. While you have documented your evidence and quoted your sources, the author did not. Once again, for the last time, I am not criticizing the issue at hand, I am criticizing the author's generalization and simplification of the situation at hand. No problem is as simple as the author of this article makes it out to be, especially this problem. Now, Satyagrahi, "As for there being "no evidence" that a vegan diet is healthiest for humans and the planet, nothing could be further from the truth." 1. Define truth. 2. Define the point at which nothing could be further from the truth. 3. Prove that a Vegan diet specifically, and not a vegetarian, or a reduced meat omnivore diet would provide the health benefits listed. 4. Cholesterol is a necessary nutrient. 5. Prove that a vegetarian or vegan diet is more environmentally feasible or even sustainable (in other words, show we can sustainably switch over 50% of our agriculture from meat production to crop production without anyone going hungry, without wasting even more money, and without worsening the environmental factors.) 6. Use something other than Vegan propaganda to support your statements. The only conspiracy is the one that makes you feel better about your own personal choices and demean others for not making the same choices.

One last thing

Justin Patrick, "Being a vegetarian myself, sometimes I wonder if my ability to be one, isn't in part, a by product of living in an affluent culture." This is exactly what I'm saying. The only reason we can even have these arguments is because we live in an affluent country with luxuries, comforts, and freedoms. Try telling starving Africans not to eat meat. Try telling native tribes to stop eating meat. Try telling hunters in America who subsist off of game to just stop eating meat. Your easy solution to the problem is the problem. It would not appear so easy if your perspective was even 10% wider than it now is. You want something to think about next time you're tripping? Think about how much of your views and feelings and even psychedelic experiences are jaded by your culture and affluence. That is all.

reconnect to the soil

I agree. Though I don't know that eating corporate meat would be any better. As for now I try to eat as well and as consciously as I can. I haven't taken any psychedelics in ten years, so I'll just have to think about these things without them.

 Perhaps I came off sounding jaded, and I am sure I am to a degree, but that wasn't the intention behind my original post. Now, I will try to be more clear. I don't think at all that a persons diet makes a person "more spiritual" or "less spiritual". I do think that awareness can be increased, through multitude of means, psychedelic, spiritual, or otherwise, and that awareness will often call into question our habits, behavior, and relationships. And like so many of other relationships, there has been a fundamental disconnection in industrial and post-industrial cultures in regards to our food.

Can veganism and raw-food diets re-establish that connection? I don't know that they can in and of themselves. Perhaps for some people they are healthy. And certainly the way the meat buisness is conducted in this country is unethical. But I do believe that traditional farming and animal husbandry can be done ethically. Certainly many think that to kill anything is unethical. But if you believe that all of the universe is infused with consciousness (animal, plant, and mineral), than eating a strawberry is as unjust as eating a goat. Differentiating between all these things is a daunting task, and would be too lengthy to get into here.

To summarise the basic tenet of my post: our issues with food (and all manner of other things) comes from our disconnection to it. Reconnecting can happen in many ways, but perhaps that most fundamental, would be a reconnection to the soil, out of which our lives arise and return.

reconnection to the soil

Hi Justin,

I just read your comment above and that last bit about reconnection to the soil really struck me.  Since Synchronicity is more commonplace than Coincidence in the magical world of RS post-comments (I'm just teasing ya'all), I won't call it that, but i had just sought out some information about the excellent documentary "The Future of Food" to FW to a friend and saw some info on the forthcoming film by the same filmmaker - a documentary on the subject on Soil:

http://www.ingoodheart.com/

Thought I was done

I live in Arkansas, one of the poorest regions in the country. There are people here who can barely survive off of McDonald's. There are people here, YES IN AMERICA, that starve to death. A vegetarian diet would be so far out of their price range, that they would laugh at you for even thinking of making that assertion. I know people who survive mainly off of what they hunt. You have no idea and no clue of the situations and conditions in the real world. Until you do, all of you nice, enlightened suggestions will amount to moot. No matter what the mushrooms tell you, if their solutions are not feasible on a large scale, then their solutions are meaningless and worthless. I am a veteran psychonaut btw, and love and respect all entheogens. I have consistently had to remove opinions like yours out of my psyche because I realized that they were convenient and only applicable to situations similar to mine. I can only hope you do the same and get off of your Vegan psychonaut high-horse. You're not saving the planet, you're making yourself feel better about doing relatively little. And so am I. I would like to do better.

Institutionalized vs. Experiential Values (oops, dualism)

Yesterday, when I read this post, I had a definate uneasiness with it that I couldn't really put my finger on, and rfkaiser's comments have put the uneasiness into perspective for me. There is a palpable tone of spiritual elitism throughout.

 

This is nothing new to RS (see any article on this site concerning Salvia Divinorum) or to any community of new-agers or people interested in self-betterment. As I get older and make choices in my life based on a deeper well of experience, I am always having to put myself in check as I find myself preaching to (often younger) friends and acquiantences about my "wise and healthful ways."

 

In my mind, the problem of the world is the problem of manipulated people who have outsourced their values, beliefs, thoughts and feelings to institutions such as religion, government, law, academia, etc. One has to draw the line at ones' self regarding what experience has taught them; the experiences of others may very well have led them to a seemingly-opposing conclusion which is every bit as valid.

 

Institutions form based on collective values that lead us to a dualism that frees us from the responsibility of thinking, feeling, and judging things on our own terms. This has the effect of placing thought and value in the realm of language rather than personal experience.

 

I empathize with rfkaiser in that I have some experience with mushrooms, but don't feel that my minimal consumption of meat devalues or disrespects the psychedelic experience in any way. I do try to remain very conscious of the origins of any meat I do eat, and whether or not the animal that has become my food was deprived of a decent life or a respectful death. But it would seem rather like institutionalized thinking for me to read this post and decide that - despite not having been reproached for my diet by The Wisdom of Mushrooms in my own experience - what the author says the mushrooms have told him must be true - and true for all of us at that.

 

So, while I am glad that the author was receptive to this message and that the experience was a blessing for him, I would just hope that he might keep in mind that the message was not necessarily for the world. What do I know, maybe it was? But I'll wait until I hear that message on my own.

 

This conversation reminds me of a quote from Joseph Campbell: "Vegetarianism is the first turning away from life, because life lives on lives. Vegetarians are just eating something that can't run away."

 

I applaud those vegetarians who are following their own hearts, and I remain very open to the possibility of not eating any meat myself in the future. But should I decide to stop eating meat, I will choose to remain aware that it has not elevated me to a place of moral superiority... that my life is still sustained by my consumption of other lives.

 

Many thanks to the author for sharing this post.  I mean no disrespect by what i have opined, and am thankful to have been engaged and become a part of the discussion. 

Cool story bro!

I was doing work once in Costa Rico with Pablo Amaringo, a noted Peruvian shaman. He told me that one of his ayahuasca visions said that the healthiest way to eat was a raw-live vegan diet. I was shocked, because at the time I was very into eating raw. He was equally shocked when I told him that is how I eat because he had never heard of or met anyone who actually eats raw. It seemed to confirm the fact for both of us that raw-live (or at a minimum vegan) is an evolved way of eating. Cool story bro! Ok, because you and 1 ayahausquero had the same revelation, that must make it true and generally applicable! Or not. Oh and btw, that last line, about the "evolved" way of eating, that's what I'm talking about. 95% of people on the planet are omnivores and suddenly you're "evolved" and "special" and "unique" because you don't? I think not. Honestly, it sounds like you and the ayahuasquero had nothing more than a self-serving mental masturbation session. The most prolific ayahuasquero I know (over 500 ceremonies all over the world), can't stand vegans because, in his opinion, they are too self-righteous and not studious enough to humble themselves and see past their own egos. Open your eyes. Your solutions to the problems are not grounded in physical reality.

Vegan = "Evolved"?

I can clearly, and confidently, say that should we find ourselves in a post-apocalyptic scenario where there are limited resources and no Whole-Foods, Trader Joe's or general supermarkets to provide us with food, it is the dogmatic Vegans who will die off first. On top of that, I can also say that the majority of Vegans today are suffering from a multitude of malnourishment problems due to their zeal over their spiritual-reputation of maintaining an absolutely Vegan diet, despite their food resources, financial state or just plain understanding of nutrition (eating nothing but Lentils or Whey Protein or Tofu day in and day out for the sake of maintaining a status of "Vegan" is not much healthier than eating "evil" eggs, cheeses and meats, or even the consumption of fast food, on a daily basis).

I can also also say that a population of people who choose to follow suit in a certain diet just because they've been brainwashed by legions of others spreading propaganda and utilizing guilt and pressure-based tactics of hierarchical spiritual, or just plain social, elitism, (the "seasoned" Psychonaut, Yoga practitioner or Vegan; a Guru; a Yoga Instructor; a New Age/Alternative-Health Author; a famed "Shaman"; a PETA member with a high office; etc), is no more "evolved" than the other "herd" of unaware meat, cigarette and beer binging people being led by capitalism and other such forces.

If anyone is to choose what to and not to eat, among other such major life-decisions, it should be from their own volition and understanding of the matters and circumstances at hand, not because others on some lofty pedestal in the clouds say so. Otherwise the only progress being made is towards the perpetuation of Sheeple.

 

following our Will and Wind, we may just go where no One's been

 

Spiral Out ~

www.myspace.com/archaic_revival

Trying

I have been limiting my meat consumption for almost two years, with periods or veganism and vegetarianism depending on what my focus is. Nothing has turned me away from these healthful practices more than self-righteous, arrogant vegans, vegetarians, and psychonauts. The feel of elitism, even though I have actively been makign better decisions, does not go away. It's just like Christianity, no matter how much you change, or how good you get, you still won't be as good as the snobby bitches whose entire reality is founded upon spiritual or dietary elitism. We will never progress to a mostly vegetarian society until we eliminate the extremism and elitism that entails.

rationalizing meat-eating is unscientific and unprincipled

If you actually read the many sources I listed in my previous post, and maybe even did some of your own research(!), you would see the evidence, by foolishly writing it off as "vegan propaganda" you show your unwillingness to expose your consciousness to anything that contradicts your current behavior/beliefs, probably because you self-identify with such behavior/beliefs, thereby triggering a childish defense reaction based on your own sense of "elitism", and are not really interested or open to further evolution or finding out what the facts really are. Other comments such as that which included J. Campbell's ridiculous quote are equally unsound. Plant's hurt too? Are you kidding me?

All of the hostility and slander against veganism I encounter here and elsewhere is all basically the same: reactive/defensive, uninformed nonsense that is disconnected from reality. Preach non-dualism/moral relativity all you want and see where that get's you, I'm sticking with science and the principles of compassion, freedom and nonviolence.

rfkaiser

You need to get off your high horse. I'm in agreement with you about elitist vegetarian practices, and I'll admit I stopped reading the article after Ayurveda since I felt there would be no new information for me, but your attitude here is more "elitist" than any response to this post, and likely anything in the article. Where the problem lies in your thought can be traced to this little tirade and your lack of consideration for future generations and possible beneficial changes we can make for them and ourselves in the present moment.

 

1. Define truth. 2. Define the point at which nothing could be further from the truth. 3. Prove that a Vegan diet specifically, and not a vegetarian, or a reduced meat omnivore diet would provide the health benefits listed. 4. Cholesterol is a necessary nutrient. 5. Prove that a vegetarian or vegan diet is more environmentally feasible or even sustainable (in other words, show we can sustainably switch over 50% of our agriculture from meat production to crop production without anyone going hungry, without wasting even more money, and without worsening the environmental factors.) 6. Use something other than Vegan propaganda to support your statements

 

1. Truth is always relative, thus making personal experience as valuable as anything. 2. See one, that which is farther from the truth is denying your own experience. 3. Health benefits are obvious to anyone who has consciously been a vegetarian, and not just our physical health. 4. Why is cholesterol a necessary nutrient? Certainly vegans avoid cholesterol and don't die. Necessary how? 5. Anyone with half a brain can see the long-term benefits to switching to a sustainable local vegetarian lifestyle, especially those unfortunate humans you pity that are forced to live off of what they hunt or the shit they can afford at mcdonald's. If we grow food and learn to live off of less and what's easily available and reproducible, our world hunger problems vanish. 6.See one.

 

All bridges can be rebuilt.

m

RS gives the false impression that we can truly learn without experience.

rabble rabble... cumbersome

With all due respect to rfkaiser and her/his stance on this article: repetition of your argument over and over again is a bit cumbersome as one reads this commentary feed. The majority of this article is about involving psychedelic awareness and consciousness in the eating process and being mindful of one's impact upon society, oneself and the planet at large in respect to food. If you find seedlings of what you percieve as 'vegan elitist' propaganda, by all means express yourself but please don't dominate the crap out of the commentary with said opinions. may we all be mindful together and please take nothing i say personally, this is but my own individual stance.

Why Negative?

Upon reading this article, before there were any postings I felt a sense of encouragement rather than elitist pretension. Regardless of the "scholarhood" of a posting based almost entirely upon opinion, it is the message and sentiment that is important. If you are coming to read Reality Sandwich to debate technicalities in lifestyle choices based on scientific evidence (ex. vegan, vegetarian, raw-live diets) then you are preaching to the choir and creating unnecessary negativity. Rfkaiser, if you agree with the basic idea and premise that Ido was putting forth, why create such controversy and elitism that you said you were combatting?

Being a person who is well aware of the benefits of eating vegetarian and/or vegan yet still consumes meat and dairy in moderation because it is how I choose to live does not grant me the moral high ground to condemn anyone for their ideologies. I don't care why you eat what you eat, I do think it is important to be connected to your food, but it is very idealistic to think that everyone on this earth has that luxury.

You complain that you wish you could do more about your eating habits but are willing to pass judgement upon those people who are making an effort, however self-promoting it may be, to eat healthier; here is one thing you can do: encourage healthy eating and lifestyles rather than tearing down those who are trying (to varying degrees of success) because you are turning people away from an important topic with exactly the type of academic elitism that you (rfkaiser) are speaking against.

That being said, I found this article to be refreshing and offered me a fresh perspective on an issue that has been sullied by so many attacking opinions from both sides of the meat eating issue. Eat as healthy as you can, and may you live long enough for it to make a difference!

Cheers

"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid."-Epictetus

pleased to meat you...

Mushrooms are closer to meat than to vegetable...

(http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/DeepGreen/NYTimes.html)

and the whole world is FLESH!

(See Maurice Merleau-Ponty)

*

Take a tall look down at the english countryside and it's not just meat that's laying waste to it, all that's left are the hedgerow highways amongst vast croppy scars... but hey, at least now the aliens have something to draw on!

*

Freaks! Each & every last one of us!

Now I'm elitist?

Doctordewey posted "You need to get off your high horse. I'm in agreement with you about elitist vegetarian practices, and I'll admit I stopped reading the article after Ayurveda since I felt there would be no new information for me, but your attitude here is more "elitist" than any response to this post, and likely anything in the article. Where the problem lies in your thought can be traced to this little tirade and your lack of consideration for future generations and possible beneficial changes we can make for them and ourselves in the present moment." Which he defended with: "1. Truth is always relative, thus making personal experience as valuable as anything. 2. See one, that which is farther from the truth is denying your own experience. 3. Health benefits are obvious to anyone who has consciously been a vegetarian, and not just our physical health. 4. Why is cholesterol a necessary nutrient? Certainly vegans avoid cholesterol and don't die. Necessary how? 5. Anyone with half a brain can see the long-term benefits to switching to a sustainable local vegetarian lifestyle, especially those unfortunate humans you pity that are forced to live off of what they hunt or the shit they can afford at mcdonald's. If we grow food and learn to live off of less and what's easily available and reproducible, our world hunger problems vanish. 6.See one. " Ok, lol step by step. 1. Truth is always relative, thus making personal experience as valuable as anything. 1. I agree with this and said nothing otherwise. 2.See one, that which is farther from the truth is denying your own experience. 2. I can somewhat agree with this also. 3. Health benefits are obvious to anyone who has consciously been a vegetarian, and not just our physical health. 3. Here is when your fail becomes epic. Health benefits, especially those related to vegetarianism, are in no way obvious. Oh! and it's not just your physical health you're saying without evidence that vegetarianism helps, it helps the mind also! Ah! You're argument is so well supported by the facts! Oh yea, and "consciously" being a vegetarian as opposed to "unconsciously" being a vegetarian. Your argument, it is full of holes. 4.Why is cholesterol a necessary nutrient? Certainly vegans avoid cholesterol and don't die. Necessary how? 4. Actually, the cholesterol thing was troll bait, and I'm glad you bit. 5. Anyone with half a brain can see the long-term benefits to switching to a sustainable local vegetarian lifestyle, especially those unfortunate humans you pity that are forced to live off of what they hunt or the shit they can afford at mcdonald's. If we grow food and learn to live off of less and what's easily available and reproducible, our world hunger problems vanish. 5. Anyone with half a brain, huh? And I'm making elitist remarks lol? A mirror, you could use one, sir. I agree we can do better, but I do not at all agree that "anyone with half a brain" would come to the same self-serving conclusions as you. The tenacity at which you defend your weak arguments while misdirecting the conversation and claiming that I am the "elitist" is dumbfounding.

YES!

The secret to living off food is to take in the electrochemical life force energy around you -- it's given off during tantra energy tranmissions at a distance. ...pause AHAHAHHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!1!1!11111 Kill yourself.

Clearly, quite clearly

Currently I'm dysfunctional because my brain has been transformed by qigong (and psychotropics) and so any impure food I eat immediately gets transduced by my vagus nerve into my brain, as anaerobic shit bacteria! Yes, and when I was in Eureka Springs last year doing daily intense Qi Gong and weekly psychedelics we still ate meat and salt and it did not "interfere with our auras" or anything like that. You are creating a false reality in order to support your beliefs.

Conscious Eating

  To understand Karma is really no different than understanding the inertial action and reaction to substances in relation to consciousness.{Dharma}  

Most will agree that different Entheogens have different effects on Consciousness.

Even different categories of psychedelic mushrooms have various effects unique unto their "character"

Even different Marijuana strains have various "natures" ...

Yet each of us also have unique constitutions of body and mind.

Every diet and/or Entheogen out there can only 'but relate to the individual constitution. {symbiotic relationship- entrainment}

It should become obvious as one matures that all experience has both collective and individual connotations.

We have general similarities among our constitutional natures ... and one also has uniqueness within ones own nature.

The word "meat" does not refer to flesh foods alone, but all food ... nut meats ... grapefruit meat ...

The animal has "spirit" ... the vegetable has spirit ... the human has spirit ... and the mushroom has spirit.

One cannot claim to be "spiritual" outside of direct conscious awareness of this principle, in all phases of exchange.... to the degree we remain aware, we are spiritual ... to the degree we do not, we are not.  

To separate meat from the spirit of the animal is simply not a "spiritual way of being period.

To the degree any of us eat food outside of direct "entrainment" with it's source, is to the degree one is not spiritual.

All of us who eat out of the grocery store are less spiritual than if we ourselves were directly, consciously involved in all stages of our nourishment.

There is nothing wrong with elitism per se ... as all life is subject to categorization.

The word "elite"literally only means "to choose" ... in other words every "chooser" or peer group, is elite unto their self. 

It is just the polarity among egos that makes one want to justify a "different choice"

There is no question that Vegetarian and Vegan diet is sufficient for all material and spiritual purposes.

India as whole nation has been predominantly vegetarian for thousands of years.

All Labor, Art Culture Spirituality ... have flourished without any flesh foods what so ever. 

The proof of ones Spirituality lies only in ones ability to directly "entrain" with all else that has spirit.

All of ones activities reflect ones spirituality ... no need to argue among one another when the truth is so obvious.

Psychedelic Nutrition

 

I suggest eating steak . . . with mushrooms.

Some comment

Hi Everybody,

Thank you for all the interesting comments. I really enjoyed reading through them.Generally, I don't think the lack of references in the article were based on my ignorance in the subjects of vegetarianism and its effects on environment and health. The text was thought out and written as a blog post, so I didn't want to make it too technical. I thought there was more than enough data and publications to support the very simple claims I make in regards to eating meat such as: Excessive eating of meat is unhealthy for the body, and globally, for the environment. Really, it seems to me that more than enough data supports these ideas today, although I rather refrain from going into an ideological links war on the matter.The other stuff (about the moral problems of eating meat, and above all industrial meat) are of course my own thoughts in the matter, and one can agree with them or not.

I am sorry that I have falsely given the impression of being an elitist vegan or anything like that. I have tried stressing in various points in the text, that the ideas presented here are only my opinion, and that many people might see this otherwise. If the text seems to be one-sided, it might be due to my over enthusiasm while writing it after a powerful experience, so please forgive me.

I myself am not a vegan and even quite a poor vegetarian. I mostly try limit my consumption of meat to the minimum possible and stay aware when I eating it.

What was important for me in this post, as mateo and awakeandalive have noted, is not a particular diet style but the idea of awareness to food and diet, and the ways psychedelics can enhance our awareness to our diet, to eating and nutrition. I think that many timesthis can also involve a change in the way we consume meat, but really, this can come in many different ways, by different people, and I tend to accept that.

Peace and love,

May the many animals of the land walk free,

Ido

Pippalayana

Pippalayana, I loved your response. I think you wrote everything very eloquently and compassionately. Thank you!

LesSpiritY'all

Buddha who eat from grocery store is not true Buddha!

fungus as carnivore

These are some good points. But we shouldn't assume such a sharp divide between gentle fungus and violent carnivore. Some Amazonian fungi colonize insect hosts and feed on their insides, sprouting their fruiting bodies like strange horns from the victims' bodies.

Yeah,

Uh, as delightful as it has been sorting through the battle lines of this debate, I just hope I can remember what I was going to translate. I'd let the caged(like veal) bird sing before I set him free - to release enzymes through a mushroom tree. Perspective & proportion come into play through the words they cannot say.

"Meat eating mushroom cultures" ?? Do you mean in a petri-dish or in a jungle, rfkeizer, like shaman, vultures. I have never heard of a flesh eating fungus. Though I have heard there are cannibals among us. This is to say, be careful which way. You choose to point your energy. Gain all the attention you need to express, but if you're on YOUR way, don't call it a mess. Without intention to collect all that you find pest.

 Mushroom eating meat cultures will define..

*It's better to burn out than to fade away* 

SomethingWiley has something to say

1ove 

 

 

 

Matthew Meyer

It's interesting that you posted about the fungi that eat insects because there is one particular fungi in South America that actually mind controls ants to go to a specific area and environment which is ideal for growth of the fungus, which then grows out of the ant's body. I guess my real point is to not take for granted everything you are told or experience while under the effects of an entheogen. Life feeds on life, and everything has an agenda, including fungi. We cannot assume that entheogens have our best intentions in mind. We can only trust our own discernment of the messages we receive from them/ourselves. We should be careful to rush into idealistic, hypnotic, and delusional states of mind and being without fully understanding what is going on without and within us. I apologize for being brash and obtuse, but I have had to tackle similar problems within my own local group because people do get really excited about what the mushroom has to say without actually factchecking the information they receive. Also, I have found that we are much more likely to go over the top with excitement and belief after an entheogenic experience, which may lead some into spiritual elitism without even realizing it. I apologize for trolling, but I have had to do the same (play devil's advocate) in my own local group in order to bring subtle self-righteousness and subtle elitism to the surface. I believe that it has become clear through some of the posters that elitist sentiments are harbored within the psychonaut community, and we all need to work these sentiments out of the equation before it is presented to the masses.

Principle of the Matter .... {quite lemgthy}

One would think that in nature there is as much beauty and truth in a raging Panther "going for the kill," ... as in a cute Bunny, nibbling on some lettuce ... maybe a carrot.

Us Humans however do have the ability to "transcend" all the good and evil interpretations ... and act in the best interest of the moment ... of the age ...

... beyond the duality of the mind ... the sentience of the feelings ... the impulses of the instincts ... {other forms of life do not}

There are true time influences in our modern environment that were not here even 50 years ago.however.

Raw Food "guru" Dr Gabriel Cousens MD. … {www.treeoflife.nu} ... who's every written word is based on clinical studies in present time ... mostly blood cells under dark field microscope.

That all of us are having more and more of a hard time maintaining balance of constitution, due mostly to the manipulation and/or destruction of planetary resources.

From something as simple as cutting down all the forests ... it is said that each of us are only getting about one-half the oxygen in every breath as the first Western settlers here on the American Continent a few hundred years back

Air … water … ozone ... so many basic life support systems have been compromised that ones own ability to transform incoming nutrition into efficient energy is in flux ... as a whole

Our very physical lifestyle is so many times more less active than in past human society … so much sitting … we simply are not requiring as much … to the point of true time “evolutionary adaptation” our very biology in the relative flux of transition

Entheogens seem to tune one in to the present “crux of flux” … in such elevated state … how to best act from the overall “cosmic” perspective can easily transcend the more relative inertial influences over body and mind.

Putting all of this into perspective … like Socrates taking Hemlock {yuk spinach -lol}… Jeshua taking up cross … Buddha “voluntarily” just waiting/tolerating all transition  for Enlightenment under the Tree … 

We may be asked to change all aspects in relation to our living system, in relation to each other, the species, the planet, the cosmos … the spirit … as a whole … a new larger and more integrated whole …

Yet such coherency does come … will come … only at the surrender of “past time” resource manipulation.

Trying to compare to other cultures diet and lifestyles is becoming more and more of an obsolete argument, as we are all, more and more seeing, hearing, tasting … visiting all levels of possible global experience ...  all perspective is in transition.

All planetary humans subject to upcoming changes ... again becoming a new global culture/gene pool in a sense 

As ones bodily constitution becomes compromised our natural tolerance towards all varieties of foods changes … and the varieties of food experience today are like never before.

According to Dr Cousens up to 75% of Americans have definitive blood cell compromise .. up to point of being clinically either “pre-diabetic” … and or “pre-cancerous”

Mixing up the global gene pool in such multifarious ways as over the last centuries or so also adds to the complexity of food transformation/alchemy , from the internal perspective… our species as a whole being exposed to more varieties of genetic information all across the board

Also, from the external perspective, such variety of foods , and/or ways of preparation due to “global marketing” and travel

… mix all this up with people moving/mating all over the globe

... possible cosmic changes in universal time {2012 etc}

How much of this parallels the cosmic influences of a coming age is anyones "Entheogenic guess." … some of it seems good .. some of it seems bad.

In the context of this article, one can at least say that all of us are approaching a new way to look at all of our "resource choices" ... from every perspective possible.

Not just from the perspective of "new age aesthetics" ... but again, from the sheer biological transformation that appears, in it's earliest stages to be upon us.

… from the serpents perspective … as well as from the birds … {Quetzalcoatl}

Our spiritual elitist distinction of choice will have to transform down {bird{ …. our bodily cravings and dependencies{serpent} will have to transform up … refine. …

One example is Fresh fruit is turning to acid in all of our systems, according to Dr Gabriel Cousen's blood field work ... in the last 50 years our environmental manipulations are changing our very biology.

Things one's body years ago would have converted to alkalinity are being "quazi-morphed" into acidity.

Our minds also are becoming more acidic" ... prone to conflict, anger, over trifle ... everyone on edge. 

Literally having to detoxify our customary “local” instincts into larger and larger global perspectives ... all against the grain of resource depletion {quality and quantity} 

Our whole constitution is becoming challenged. The effects are all across the globe ..

Of course individual and regional constitutional natures still have relative influence ... but according to blood cell analysis ... we are all progressing in this direction.

Another example, is Dr Karen Silberstein ND, {{www.consciousbeingwellness.com}... a very advanced Iridologist {Iridology is an ancient Egyptian science of "reading the iris" for diagnosis of symptoms} 

... she is finding that gradual system decay, that she is used to seeing in 60-70 year old patients are showing up in preliminary form in 8-12 year olds  

Her perspective is that these are the first generation who spend cumulative hours directly in front of EMF monitors {games / computers.

That these fields disrupt coherent development. Within of only 3 weeks away from computers she saw the children return in the direction of “negative-entropy” or reversed decay. More than an hour or so a day seems to lead us toward a definitive state of entropy.

Professor David Wagner, of Advanced Tachyon Technologies International, {www.tachyon-link.com} .... former head engineer of Harris Digital {Fortune 500 Electronics firm of the 80’s}...  says that there are so many man-made frequencies that are being projected all around the globe that if we could see them, there would be too many to see the other person standing in front of you.

Microwaves are every where … these man-made frequencies, according to Professor Wagner, are not coherent … directly harmful to all living systems

Our global diet may very well be in real time transition … from the cosmic level … all the way down to the cellular 

Our very soil is also in constitutional transition .. from so many influences.

In the USA , whole areas, due to Global Warming, are now growing things that could not be grown until recent weather changes … other places can no longer grow what they used to due to the same changes

.... this really effects ones organic entrainment with local seasonal perspectives that encourage our indigenous "readiness" for certain foods as they reach their peak growth period.

The “head and tail of serpent” is " ‘a whiplashing” … so much transition, from so many perspectives … yet so, so many are trying to tighten the reigns on humanistic convention

… self perpetuating sophistry … resisting like anything … as if there ever really was a time when all things were ‘but in transition.

What we eat, how we grow, digest, share … is all in transition … down to every detail of individual biology to global consciousness … so many levels of change

…. Such change, at present, … over years, decades, centuries … how to rid the wave in a way that allows one to “ride the Tiger”  

We as a global humanity, have never existed before and if larger cosmic changes are gaining momentum …{again 2012}...  

Well I will give an example of my own life to “testify” to at least this overall principled possibility.

I am Pippalayana Muni, 51 year old male

. I grew up on regular American Diet … at age 15-16 took to a principled vegetarian diet … a little yoga, a little Tao, a little Entheogen

….somehow or other took to such "voluntarily" .. no peers ... no guides

By my senior year in high school {1975-76I was off meat, fish eggs, white flour white sugar, alcohol, caffeine ,all man-made medicines, including aspirin and cough medicine … all due to solely reading about the possibility … trying it out … and then actually experiencing the nature of such transition …{as beneficial at every level, as far as I could tell}

To the point of being in total agreement with my whole being to the nature of the transition.

Over the years my body has changed so extensively that even if I was literally starving … I would not compromise.

As it simply would not be worth the while … from a sheer biological perspective ... more sickening than healthy.

Yet my real point in bringing this up is that in the last decade … especially the last 4 years or so, ... beyond any conscious planning

I have further weaned off all dairy {used to take fresh organic local milk products friends cow …. of and on}

all grain … all legumes {beans} … all nightshades {tomato potato eggplant} … all root vegetables {carrot beets} … All fruit

I did not plan any of this … it just happened gradually

I am literally loosing my taste for whole categories of even vegetarian/vegan foods.

Of course am totally raw … nothing heated above “too hot to touch” ….

Things that used to taste great do not … certain vegetables that used to taste bitter to me… now taste sweet

. Every aspect of my diet/eating of diet has transitioned …. all gradually, over years with many levels of going back and forth between stages

. Do Not Try This At Home … {lol} … one can never overstep ones own bodily constitution …

Even among raw food vegans there are really many varieties of approach

 

Dr Gabriel Cousens is coming out with a new book on fasting ... in it he will be talking about something he calls "under-eating" ... based on the fact that cultures with the least calorie intake have the highest levels of people living over 100 years {Centarians}  

There are many levels of this ... none of which is a linear progression ... always only relative to individual constitution in relation to time and circumstance {key point}

… genes, mind set, spirituality … environment, peer influence and/or support … convenience … access to cosmic energies … so many factors making each of our situations as unique as a snowflake.

My only point is to show, at least in my case, that as resources dwindle, ones system can/will adapt to the minimal, most efficient stage of usage

… all without “planning to do so” …"and in an organic way as possible"

... as I believe we are all truly in transition, according to our disposition. one way or another.

Mine has always been very quiet, introspective, philosophical, and more importantly, possibly, deeply contemplative … not having an “active or intense lifestyle {similar to monkhood}

... that very little is required to keep body nourished, mind sound, emotions fulfilled and spirit enlivened. 

It is actually strange because where I ended up {example only} the foods left that don't make me feel sick {nuts /seeds and all vegetables not included in categories above} ... are all the most nutrient dense anyhow, all can be found relatively local {grown} with less labor and resources than all the foods left behind.

A great lifestyle for hermit, yogi, small family, community living out of yurt, cabin.

With a little green-housing, one can live year round at this level, { with relative variation according to disposition. ... without stress of even the slightest sense of malnutrition, or energy loss. ... 

Not only did I not plan this, but had some ideological challenges at different stages of transition … whole ideologies, of which ones emotions are attached, changing as well …. {gently and gradually … key point}

Dr Gabriel Cousens says that it can take a modern adult up to two whole years to become even a vegetarian … what to speak of raw vegan … as ones biology itself has to actually adapt

Younger persons will have it easier as is understandable

{One cannot expect any fad to replace conscious participation in the whole nourishing process … an ongoing organic transition}

Even though we have many things in common with our constitutions … there are still whole categories of uniqueness that varies greatly among individuals

So, of course my example is “elitist” as a natural consequence in relation to relative category … it being like a “peak to be reached” … but only in principle

In real time interaction it is only a natural match to my lifelong bodily constitution, and of course progressive Karma to Dharma Spirituality

… planetary and cosmic adjustment … custom designed for me as far as I can tell …

“I know of not one other who this exact diet and or lifestyle could be “promoted” in relation to … as each is in transition all unto their own.

But I know beyond a doubt that the present time influences of transition are upon us all ... at every level.

Actual transition, at every level of being, over several decades … such a frugal and simple way of living is the opposite of greatness … it is simplicity at every level imaginable

… ... approaching the very “zero point field stare ” of where my living has "zero" "consequence" of any kind ... on anyone {the very opposite of elitist ... such transition being beyond choice ... not because of choice {elitism-literally} 

I know lots of vegetarians/vegans from all over and there is no real stereotype outside of social commentary, as is true of all social categorization. 

In the Vedic “prophecies” of the coming/present age … the “Golden Age” began 500 hundred years or so ago, {just getting warmed up} and will last another 9500 years … a 10,000 year period.

Not a super-duper period from the external perspective … as we will have to bear the sheer human destruction on our very environment over centuries … the making extinct whole forests, species

Our organic viability has already been compromised in so many ways.etc

It will be "golden" only in the sense of the planet linking together as a whole and being forced more or less to at first co-operate together, but then to gradually “transform” together.

“Simple living … High Thinking” will be the motto … the transition will be as organic as cosmic … each unto their own … ones own as all others

….there just will not be any room left for the middle ground of attachment and complacency any more ...

Not only not enough resources to exploit ... but no more recreational leisure .... to 'but be directly supportive of each other in their survival. 

… the most efficient use of the most minimal resources is not just a survival ethic but also a very high plateau of focus for our progressive natures.

As enlivening as challenging ... we are being forced/enticed to transition ... to the degree we adapt ... is to the degree we maintain a cognizant context on the nature of change....

Otherwise ones resistance will become ones entropy  

Balance

On the whole vegan/non-vegan issue - Although I have no facts to cite, I do believe in moderation and balance. Heavy one-sidedness of almost anything (red meat/factory barns, soy/factory farms, etc.) is eventually proven to be harmful to the body/earth in one way or another. This is just my opinion, please don't bite my head off.

Eating Off Tree of Life

Actually Dr Cousens {Gabriel} has had another book out since "Rainbow Green" ... it is called "Spiritual Nutrition" ... going into the more esoteric understanding of "higher nourishment"

Gabriel is also a Kundalini Yoga Master in direct lineage to Swami Muktanada of the 60-70's {not really my personal thing}

His understanding from the "Yogi's perspective is to eat directly from the "Sushuma" the main channel of Kundalini ascent and decent.

Living directly off Spiritual force. He claims, from the "Essene" tradition that both Moses and Jesus in their 40 day fasts, {which actually was a standard mystical practice of the "Essenes," ... was to access the eating of "manna from heaven" ... direct pranic {or chi} directly from "top of head" {for lack of deeper terminology"

This was of course only done at final stages of spiritual progression, after  years, and other levels of fasting. {Gabriel is also on International Boards of Essene, and Ancient Jewish Kabbala societies, again, not my specialty.}

It is not that ones has to "under-nourish" ... {modern standards of calorie intake have been obsolete since the 70's... but like so many things are perpetuated out of inertia alone.}But to more efficiently obtain nourishment.

There can be way more vitamins and minerals while still having substantially less "calories"  

Dr Cousen's more practical focus is on "pathogens" ... and mycosis of the blood cells ... to where the body starts to "compost" itself .. all modern degenerative disease follows this premise ... consistently confirmed through "dark field microscope analysis of blood cells 

. In my above example of personal transition I am actually getting more vitamins and minerals than previously.{relative example only}

Evey single vitamin and/or mineral that could be obtained from other sources is found in more concentration in the variety of foods mentioned. {again not intended for everyone/anyone ... but just a viable way to go for a few here or there that can relate.}

Of course I eat substantial servings up to 5 times a day But the general principle works for everyone

I have a more Vedic {pre Hindhu, pre India} perspective, to what is going on in my case

. Two Sanskrit terms

Caitanya - Immortal Characterization

Rasa - Spiritual Humor . Mellow .. or mood

Every food, and or category of food {actually all life} has these components to them.

So all fruit ... all grain {examples} all have unique "spiritual characterized humors to them ... that either match ones own humor or mellow, or do not ... as one transitions different symbiotic relationships come into play.

There is natural relationship to this ongoing "science" of exchange ... however my original point in referring to Dr Cousens was his comment that what he is seeing is that our modern environment, due to destructive practices, is now, down to the cellular level, actually interfering with ones innate ability to relish symbiotic exchange with certain categories of indigenous food sources.

Of course some of this is more our fault than others.

In other words, there may be natural "cosmic synergies" that are effecting natural human transition ... but there are also influences from our sheer destruction of our planetary environment that are directly counter-productive to every positive aspect of all nourishment assimilation.

According to Gabriel, birds are the only natural "grain eaters". So as humans "accustom themselves to grains ... whatever they gain has cost them in other ways of indigenous "entrainment" with their natural capacity for synthesis.

Whole categories of excessive human behavior can possibly be traced to eating out side of indigenous entrainment. {Eden}

Like hanging out with the "wrong" type of personalities over time can effect ones judgment. ... these food categories all have "cosmic personality" above and beyond any "tree of knowledge" interpretation" ... {calories, carbohydrates, proteins etc etc} ...

So some of the problem has been due to our own food choices over millennium ... if that wasn't enough of a dilemma.

But with depleted environmental life support systems {ozone air water EMF's etc... on a global level ... there is much more complication to the "maya" so to speak.

Take Cow Milk. Even the most esoteric sages/yogis, from the indigenous Vedic tradition, value pure cow milk as pure "rasa" {devotional humor or mellowed balm for the soul.

There is one sage in India who took a vow over 40 years ago to live off a cup of milk in morning ... and a cup at night .. only .... nothing else

Other swami's, who in their mystical prowess had reached a stage of living off only a pat of butter every day {also only sleeping 2 hours per day tops} at the latter stages of their spiritual journey .. choosing milk by-product as the only connecting substance to their bodies.

Vedic Brahmanas used to sip hot milk ... calling it "liquid religiosity"

Dr Cousens now says that solely due to environmental manipulation, milk has now become pure "Ama" - poison - the antithesis of Rasa, from "Ayur vedic" perspective ... {Dr Cousens is also on an International Ayur- vedic board}. 

It takes only about 4 months after using depleted uranium weapons in the Middle East before radiation levels can be found accelerated in all dairy products .. here in the states {also across the globe ... different timetable}

According to Dr Cousens ... there are traces in all grass ... and the cow naturally, greatly concentrates this into milk ... the effects are clinically deviant to our health ... directly seen in the effect on blood cells.

Even babies born of organic raw-vegan mothers can have up to 200 environmental toxins found in them ... that even a meat and potatoe eater 50 -100 years ago would have no symptoms of.. 

Many points to consider ... hence the phrase "Conscious Eating"

This is why I mention "like drinking hemlock - Socrates" ... we may very well have to "bite the bullet" of changing our diet based to some degree or other, out of sheer necessity ... above and beyond other types of concerns. 

Also since our bodies are becoming "mycotic" {in a state of "composting" the amount of dairy we used to be able to tolerate is increasing this symptom of decay

. He gave the example in his last book, that a raw food vegan client of his started drinking organic raw Goats milk ...

Gabriel, found advanced symptoms of blood cell mycosis beginning to develop ... after three weeks of not drinking the goat milk ... the blood cells again regained their integrity.

Even a decade or so  ago this was not likely to show up so readily ... we are really loosing our constitutional viability due to extreme manipulations of our indigenous, life sustaining environment.

He has this 3 month detox program that can virtually stop this "composting of the body}... can be done at home as well.

His main premise is at least 60% raw vegan diet for basic health ... up to 85% for optimum health ... any more than that is constitutional preference .. and or "spirituality"

In the Vedic prophecies of "Kali Yuga" ... the mythological cow of mother earth is only standing on one leg.

Yuga's are lengthy cosmic time periods that apparently cycle

Satya Yuga -4 legs {vegan}

Treta zyuga- 3 legs {dairy}

Dvapara Yuga - 2 legs {beans grains}

Kali Yuga {present time} 1 leg {animal flesh foods}

Not only is she standing on one leg, but she is being beaten by man more and more as the age progresses.{according to Myth}

The more the cow fears man ... the more poisonous is her milk.

Of course it is relatively early in the Yuga ... so some conscious usage may still go on, one would guess

All of this ... any of this is just to raise awareness on possibilities one might not be aware of in this time of accelerated change.

Free to interpretation as always.

It is only in the "Entheogenic state" ... {not necessarily limited to psychedelic usage} .. that each of us will, according to the appropriate time and circumstance, gain insight into "cosmic appropriation in regard to any of our avenues of individual, and/or collective "Karma - to - Dharma" transition. 

Karma - resultant inertia ... action and reaction

Dharma - transcendence 

There is just no empirical research, and/or psycho-socio perspectrives,  that by definition, can give us a truly holistic sense of where we are really at. in relation to "All That Is"

Children squabbling

This all sounds to me a lot like a bunch of kindergartners arguing about who is right and who is wrong and nitpicking over the most asinine things imaginable. It is funny that human beings will give absolutely everything and I mean EVERYTHING! Money, friends, family, reputation, careers, love, marriage and even life itself for one thing and this one thing only. The perceived NEED to BE RIGHT!!! When it is all said and done the only thing and I mean the ONLY thing that matters is whether or not the world is a better place just because YOU were here???? All your knowledge and all your attitudes and all your rightness or your wrongness don't mean squat if you haven't done your utmost to make the world a better place for as many people as possible every day of your life. And you do that one person at a time and one heart at a time. You will never change people by what you say. You will only change people by WHAT YOU ARE. Is tearing other people down and showing where they are wrong the only way you can feel good about yourself. If so you need to have a total rethink of your own values because that has never ever made the world a better place. You have to BE the change you want to see. I saw no elitism at all in the orignal post. I saw a person giving out a message they thought would be beneficial for some people but certainly not for ALL people. If I have found something that works well for me I don't mind sharing it with others but just because it works well for me doesn't mean that it is right or necessary for anyone else and I tell people frequently, "Do not believe anything I have told you just because I told you or just because it sounds good. This is my Truth and it works for ME. If you can take something I have said and make it work for you then great. Then it becomes your Truth as well. If it doesn't work for you then forget it and find something that does that will bring you closer to your own personal "stated" goal whatever that/it may be. There are no right decisions or wrong decisions. Ther are only decisions which bring you closer to or further away from your stated goal. It matters not how much pot you have smoked or how much aya/LSD/mushroom you have drunk, smoked, injected, or snorted or how open/enlightened/healed/powerful you think you might be. If you do not have love in your heart and give love in all that you do and all that you say and all that you think then you have absolutely nothing. Even if you sing with the voice of angels and have every paranormal gift available to a human and even if you give everything you own to feed the poor and the sick and the hungry and even if you give your body up to be burned in sacrifice and you have not love in your heart for all things and all people you have nothing and you have given nothing and your accomplishments are worth nothing. Love is the only answer no matter what the question was. Love does not judge, It does not condemn,It is not vain and self seeking, It is not loud and boisterous, It does not recognize evil. It hopes all things, believes all things, endures all things, bears all things. Love never fails and it never gives up. When the universe presents one with a present just as when a parent or loved one gives you a present, one does not complain about the way the gift is wrapped nor about who delivered the gift. Acknowledge the gift that was given you.If you do not like the gift then let it lie for someone else to take and use. Do not demean it and tell others it is useless and contaminated. Remember some folks survive reasonably well off food from dumpsters. Be the peace that all of you desire and let there be peace among you and may peace reign in your home. Namaste'

Peripheral Visions

As a lifelong veggie in my 60s I could easily get involved in some parts of this discussion, but I'd be interested in people's speculation as to why (reportedly) Augustus Owsley Stanley III imposed an all-meat diet on The Grateful Dead, when making and taking very pure LSD - and why John Lilly recommended the high protein diet in The Centre of The Cyclone... Just curious...

Grateful Bread

I do vaguely remember the Owsley story of giving meat in relation to the GD ... in some biography or other It probably was not based on any real nutritional perspective.

Dr Gabriel Cousens MD, who has a 200 hundred acre "Rejuvenation center in southern Arizona, but who is also a Kundalini Yoga master, ... even though himself a raw vegan, would still recommend animal flesh foods to help "ground down" a very small percentage of clients who could not achieve such on their own.

This was only done temporarily to gain fundamental sense of balance, again, only in select individuals.

{That was years ago ... he does not recommend this anymore}

There was a book out years ago, ... the title something like "Kundalini or Psychosis" ... referring to, in the 1960's when LSD was initially being introduced on a collective scale ... ... that many "freak-out symptoms" were actually partial "kundalini awakenings" that certain individuals had no scope for.

  Although Dr Cousens did not write it, one of his peers did {he is in his late 60's and he had stayed straight during the 1960's} { Gabriel is actually in the Collegiate Football Hall of Fame}... So he witnessed a lot of this first hand. 

  As a college football linebacker, brought up on a mid-western meat/potato diet, at the peak of his athletic prowess he could only do 75 push-ups. ...

... on his 60'th birthday, during a radio interview he did 400 push-ups ... his bodily frame is leaner and his apparent muscle mass is less that at his collegiate 

  In some cases heavy meat products brought the apparent "psychosis" down to a some what manageable level. 

Of course Dr Cousens, in his books goes into the whole modern misconception about protein ... in detail.

Every constitution is different ... nothing standardized ... this is more and more the modern wisdom in most nutritional circles ... virtually all 20-30 plus year old standards of "western" nutritional science are now considered obsolete.

Like the whole "carb" phenomenon in the last decade ... "fiber" before that ... a heavy meat based culture is just beginning to awaken from their nescience ... many advancements are being made.

 

The reason I mention Gabriel {Dr Cousens} so much is that his research into every nook and cranny is so thorough ... his latest book "Spiritual Nutrition" has some definitive pioneered insights based on very recent studies

 ... that are found no where in main stream ... but also goes way back to Louis Pasteur's original germ theory ... he does not seem to distinguish between alternative and or conventional research. 

Plus he is relatively cool ... besides his Fasting and Raw Food Vegan Gourmet  courses/seminars ... they do sweat lodges and other cultural things.

Gabriel is one of only few "Westerners" to ever be invited to directly participate the Lakota {American Indian} Tribes 4 day Sun Dance.

One has to remain standing from sunrise to sunset for 4 days in a row {among other things}

 Even though Dr Cousens is in his late sixties, raw food vegan since "1983 ... and surrounded by younger pure-blooded Lakota tribe men, he is the only one who made it all the way through last time he did it. 

Even the meat cultured Indians acknowledged that there might just be something to this raw vegan thing.after directly witnessing the tolerance and energy of one steeped in the practice or art of "conscious eating"

In my case, I turn protein into acid very fast, my optimum fuel ratio, is low protein, low fat, high oil, high carbohydrate.

  Dr Cousens mentions 6 basic biology make ups that effect this ratio in individuals. There apparently is constitutional peak ratios for each constitutional type. 

I learned mine the hard way ... reading and experimenting

When the right proportions are reached, the energetic efficiency becomes apparent

. I remember, "through the hippy grapevine," that if one was to take LSD trips consecutively, without allowing the body to "replenish" as so many nutrients are used up on a heavy trip, ... that B-12 and Vitamin C were to be taken, otherwise the second or third "consecutive trip" will not resemble that original intensity, as there was not enough internal nutrition to trip off of.

... {Owsley could have been thinking along such lines ... {surely not a "parable to live by"} 

Oneness

I think there won't be too much controversy if I say that Entheogens are known to produce an experience of "Oneness". I assume there is no argument about whether it is wrong to eat other humans - at least in most cultures. And, in cannibal societies, I would think it's probably thought of as wrong to eat your own tribal members or family members. So, it's a question of where you draw the line. In Nazi Germany, Jews were thought of as being "animals" -- so it was ok to kill them. In the 1800s in the U.S., slaves were considered to be 3/5ths of a person - so it was ok to beat, enslave, and kill them. No creature who eats other creatures would want to be treated that way themselves. So, if Entheogens show you that a cow is your family, (or is yourself) then you are not going to want to kill it. These days it seems that considering other human races to be human - and therefore, not someone to discriminate against or kill, is something most people would agree with. So people who used to be considered "animals" are now considered "human". Therefore, it has already happened - what used to be considered an animal, is now considered human. As awareness is expanded, as is the effect of Entheogens, one would expect that other creatures who are now considered to be "animals" will come to be considered "human".

Oneness...

I have often thought that it is more dignified to be an animal than a human, later remembering that we are, after all, animals too.

 

ham sa

 

Rafael Lopez

www.lopezivern.com

well said,

as a vegetarian i completely agree with the article. and i think it's funny that it's okay to slaughter animals for food but it's not okay to eat the mushrooms produced naturally because of the components of something in the cow.

once on a trip I was

once on a trip I was surrounded by a group of cows, we had some sort of non verbal communication thing, Ive never eaten a cow since, something about that domesticated breed doesnt seem right, the are a little dumbed down maybe, regardless I went on a self rightious vegan path for over 12 years, then I moved to over 8000ft in the mountains of colorado, logic stuck me and the macrobitic thing made sense, what did the natives eat it this cold ass climate? not carrots,but meat. so I started to eat meat again and my body thanked me, but I eat meat that is still considered wild game, deer, elk, buffalo, trout etc. anyways now I live in hawaii and eat lots of fish, veggies and fruit. hows that go, when in rome...

the veggie spider

I had seen the news about the veggie spider and then saw that the main page of "reality sandwich" had an article on it. I haven't seen anything mentioned yet about what kind of acacia the tree is. (The main part of its diet comes from acacia leaves). I don't know how many of the acacia trees contain DMT.

vegan elitist rant

This article expresses such sensivity and compassion to animal life and the beauty of psychedelics.  It's so sad that some people respond with cynicism and contempt to even considering what the author has to say.

RFKAISER -did people bully since you were 10 for your beliefs in hunting like they did me for being vegan? were you ridiculed and singled out constantly in every social situation for eating meat like i was for not eating meat? what you percieve as elitism may be a form of self defense for people who are so sick of defending themselves against the herd mentality you present.  i've been to arkansas. you know what came up conversationally again and again... "so, do you hunt?" this was an icebreaker! the people you defend as impoverished and who hunt to survive??? it's sport to them, plain and simple. a manly thing to do. don't say poverty is why someone has to hunt when a pack of seeds, a spade, and some rain is cheaper than that gun and hunting knife you so righteously defend. your arrogance prevents you from participating in a world without murder in it's heart. and let's face it. you are the majority. you've already won. the world is going to shit because there are just too many people like you who don't care and have no intention of changing.

 

next time around, have a little mercy.

 

 

 

 

animal vs plant

do plants not suffer? Ive spoken with plants before and their tired of being disrespected..stop eating if you worried about pain to other life, or eat more psydelics to see the oneness in all and the reality of the cycles of life

what's all this now?

I can remember tripping and thinking i would never eat meat again. probably because i was so super sensitized by the experience. As a once long time vegetarian i have actually gone back not omnivorism under the supervision of my naturopath, a very hip guy. After running some blood tests he told me i came from a hunter gatherer society and would be better off healthwise by including meat in my diet. And the fact is i enjoy it. believe it or not red meat is actually one of the better foods for me in moderation. Do you know it is rare but some people have to have red meat or they die. I try to eat as conciously as i can and not consume refined and ultra corperate foods of any kind. But i am also on the 80% diet that means I try to live by my moral integrity at least most of the time and there will be times when I won't have the ability to avoid it but can get away with it here or there. i don't have to be over zealous about my lifestyle just do my best. i do run up against i guess i'd call them hippiecrits, friends who are vegetarian but smoke cigerettes like there's no tomorrow.  i enjoyed the original post and all the comments i think these kinds of conversations are......healthy!  peace