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An Outbreak of Fear and Paranoia in the Psychedelic Mushroom Community

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I recently put my foot in it. I stepped, as they say, on a hornet's nest. All hell broke loose and verbal fury was loosed upon me. Here's what happened.

Some months ago, a chap called Jan Irvin, who runs Gnostic Media, put out a request for funds to help him pursue a project concerned with unveiling a sinister Elite/CIA/NWO conspiracy. Mind you, this was not just any old sinister Elite/CIA/NWO conspiracy. This one involved, allegedly, a vast labyrinthine PSYOPS involving psychedelic mushrooms, Gordon Wasson, Aldous Huxley, The Esalen Institute, Teilhard De Chardin, 2012 eschatology, Alan Watts, Terence McKenna, and all manner of other psychedelic spokesmen and counter-culture luminaries. The gist of it is that the whole hippy psychedelic movement was stage managed by the CIA/Elite/NWO and that the malign manipulations of these ultra-powerful puppet masters stretch back further even than Albert Hofmann's infamous LSD trip bicycle ride (Irvin even thinks Hofmann's bicycle trip was a "fabrication" and "BS"). Thus, Irvin is attempting nothing less than a total rewrite of psychedelic history. Believe me, with everything being bent into an infernal conspiracy shape, it's scary bad trip stuff. Of course, one might simply dismiss all this as the lunatic fringe, yet Irvin is backed and supported by numerous fans and supporters. Indeed, he has already managed to raise 3,000 bucks to fund this latest work.

What originally got me involved were Irvin's insinuations about Gordon Wasson. Recall that Wasson was the ethnomycological scholar who published a groundbreaking article about psilocybin mushrooms in Life magazine in 1957. This article was just as significant as Aldous Huxley's 1954 book The Doors of Perception in sparking the West's interest in psychedelics. Wasson was instrumental in channeling the psilocybin mushroom's mind expanding influence from the backwaters of Mexico to the very heart of the West. If you have ever experienced "magic mushrooms," then you have Gordon Wasson to thank -- at least in part.

Now, the conventional view of Wasson is that there was indeed a connection with dodgy mischief-makers -- in this case the thin-tied, shade-wearing CIA. But this connection was minor and indirect. The conventional view, which has been well documented, is that the CIA got an agent to infiltrate one of Wasson's mushroom hunting trips to Mexico. Here is what I wrote about it in my book The Psilocybin Solution:

"In his book The Search for the ‘Manchurian Candidate,' John Marks tells us of the CIA's covert involvement with our hero Wasson. In its relentless and arguably psychotic search for ever-more effective weaponry, the CIA had, by the 1950s, initiated a massive twenty-five million dollar long-term program called MKULTRA. True to its suspicious-sounding name, Project MKULTRA involved finding chemical and biological materials for use in "mind kontrol" and other psychological unpleasantries. Despite the morally questionable nature of such an unsavory federal project, its dogmatic pursuit meant that it was soon to pick up on rumors of sacred Mexican mushrooms. After learning of Wasson's 1955 experiences with the mushroom, an unscrupulous chemist named James Moore immediately began to work undercover for the conspiratorial agency. Presumably dollars changed hands surreptitiously. At any rate, in 1956, Moore craftily wrote to Wasson informing him that he knew of a foundation willing to finance another Mexican trip in order that he and Wasson bring back some of the legendary mushrooms. Moore innocently claimed that, as a chemist, he simply wanted to study the chemical structure of the mushroom's active constituents. The foundation was the CIA-backed Geschwickter Fund for Medical Research, and they were offering a two-thousand dollar grant. Would Wasson be interested?

Understandably, Wasson took the bait, and so it came to pass that the CIA's secret quest for the sacred mushroom became Subproject 58 of the MKULTRA program, possibly representing the most crass approach to psilocybin to date. It was as if the CIA were lobbing stones at angels. Fittingly, it transpired that the double-dealing Moore was well out of his comfort zone in Mexico and loathed the entire episode. Wasson later recalled that Moore had absolutely no empathy for what was going on. Whereas Wasson was sensitive to the customs of the native Mexican Indians and respectful of their cultural beliefs about the mushroom, Moore was there merely as a CIA pawn.

Once again, all those who were in Wasson's party took part in a mushroom ceremony hosted by the shaman Maria Sabina, though it was Moore alone who had a bad experience. Despite this, Moore was still able to bring back some of the fungi to the United States in the hope of isolating the active ingredient. Thankfully, however, he was beaten in his pharmaceutical pursuit by Roger Heim, an eminent French mycologist and coworker of Wasson, who managed to grow a supply of the mushroom from spore prints that he had taken in Mexico. Heim sent his newly cultivated samples to Albert Hofmann of Sandoz Laboratories in Switzerland, and it was Hofmann, a highly distinguished chemist who had originally synthesized LSD, who, in 1958, first isolated and then named the entheogenic alkaloid within the mushroom. Psilocybin was thus officially born, a name devoid of the weaponry connotations the CIA would invariably have conferred upon the substance had they successfully isolated it first."

The thing to bear in mind is that Wasson did not know that he was being duped by the CIA. It is also worth driving home the point that all these events took place during the paranoid anti-Communist McCarthyism Cold War era of the 1950s, when the CIA had an active interest in mind control drugs for use in espionage. However, things never worked out that well for the CIA, as psilocybin cannot be used as a mind control "truth drug." As users will know, psychedelic drugs are more like de-conditioning agents that can make one challenge orthodoxy and cultural control structures. Indeed, that is probably one principal reason why psilocybin has been demonized and illegalized by the authorities. If you wish to control someone and extract information, or get them to do your dirty espionage work or whatever, then the psilocybin mushroom is not a tool for your arsenal.

Despite this long accepted story in which the CIA briefly tried to subvert the psilocybin mushroom, Irvin has been asserting, in no uncertain terms, that Wasson was not duped at all, but was an actual CIA agent himself, and part of a cunning and elaborate "Elite" conspiracy. Irvin even tries to tie in Wasson with the assassination of JFK. And this is but the tip of his conspiratorial thesis!

It was the attack on Wasson's reputation that first roused my attention. I came across Irvin's project overview and appeal for funding many months ago via Facebook and thought it was nuts. I decided not to look further -- in the same way that I stay away from certain other ‘far out' ideas that are rife on the Internet these days and which zip around Facebook and the like.

Then, through the independent efforts of some new contacts (chiefly Jonny Enoch), I found myself being asked to go on 3Fourteen Radio, which is part of the popular Red Ice Radio network. Not being a follower of Red Ice, I knew very little about them (as Jonny Enoch has pointed out on a recent video, I am more interested in studying natural history than conspiracy theories). In any case, I went on their show not simply to have a go at Irvin, but to talk about my own work (books, films, music). However, given that Red Ice had recently interviewed Irvin about his Wasson-based conspiracy ideas, I mentioned that I would listen to his interview and comment upon it when they interviewed me. For some reason, I felt I had to do that. But I left listening to Irvin's two hour interview till the night before my own interview because I sensed that it would "work me up," and thus wanted to delay being subjected to it for as long as possible.

I should here point out that having read most of Gordon Wasson's books (including the esteemed Mushrooms, Russia and History along with The Wondrous Mushroom: Mycolatry in Mesoamerica) whilst researching for my psilocybin book, I had developed a deep respect for Wasson. I was always particularly impressed with his literary skills and his passion for all things "psilocybinetic." Regardless of the fact that Wasson was originally a bigwig banker, he was a dedicated scholar of psilocybin history. I particularly admired him because he presented the psilocybin mushroom to the West in such a reverent and passionate way -- and this includes his vivid descriptions of psilocybin induced visions. It was as if fate had chosen Wasson to spread word of psilocybin because he would undertake such an auspicious task with the due care and attention that it deserved. Here is a typical example of his vivid prose concerning the nature of the psilocybin experience:

"As your body lies there in its sleeping bag, your soul is free, loses all sense of time, alert as it never was before, living an eternity in a night, seeing infinity in a grain of sand. What you have seen and heard is cut as with a burin into your memory, never to be effaced. At last you know what the ineffable is and what ecstasy means.... The bemushroomed person is poised in space, a disembodied eye, invisible, incorporeal, seeing but not seen. In truth, he is the five senses disembodied, all of them keyed to the height of sensitivity and awareness, all of them blending into one another most strangely, until the person, utterly passive, becomes a pure receptor, infinitely delicate, of sensations."

Back to this Red Ice interview involving Irvin. The night before my audio date with Red Ice, I finally listened to Irvin's two hour interview (at the time of writing, it is here: http://youtu.be/E-XcsdXto7w). What he said had a decidedly frictional impact upon my psyche, as I suspected it would). I certainly didn't buy into his ideas. I smelled that something was not quite right, not right at all. I checked a few web pages and a few video interviews, but I did not check out his full Wasson conspiracy essay (which is very long and very detailed). Basically, my BS detector alarm had gone off, so I saw little point in working through that essay (at least at that juncture).

It seems to me that a man's legacy is the work he leaves behind. Wasson's chief legacy is his books and articles about psychedelic mushrooms, in particular psilocybin mushrooms. If you read his books, you get a feel for the man, a sense of the intent behind the words. So when someone starts making slurs about the character of someone you rate, you obviously take notice and may feel obliged to stand up for their honor (for want of a better word). The reader should also note that in the aforementioned interview, Irvin also intimated that philosopher Alan Watts had a ‘handler' and was, like Wasson, linked to this huge NWO/Elite conspiracy. Anyone who is familiar with Watts' talks and videos will know this is a Pythonesque assertion.

So then.... a tad "worked up," I went on the radio show (currently here: http://youtu.be/-XvBj4Bwea4). Some way into the interview, I made my feelings known about what Irvin had said in his two hour interview. I used a few expletives (but carefully placed I thought). As far as I recall, I did not direct those expletives at Irvin's person, but rather at his intent and his research conclusions. In any case, the following week was like the Blitz. It was crazy. So much was written -- Facebook and forum threads longer than time itself. Hate mail and hate messages of the most foul and vicious kind were sent to me and even started showing up on my Youtube videos. The shit had well and truly hit the fan. Apart from swearing every which way and making threats at people, Irvin even transcribed a fair whack of my interview and created a web page dedicated to highlighting my apparently lying fallacious mind (at the time of writing, it is here: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/into-the-mind-of-simon-g-powell-a-study-in-fallacious-logic/).

I have now, finally, read Irvin's essay on Wasson (at the time of writing, it is here: http://www.gnosticmedia.com/magic-mushrooms-and-the-psychedelic-revolution-beginning-a-new-history-or-the-secret-history-of-magic-mushrooms-by-jan-irvin-144-2/). Here is a brief quote typifying his rhetoric in this essay: "We've seen a cover‐up of a mind control and propaganda campaign regarding mushrooms and the field of ethnomycology that reaches to the highest levels of the U.S. government, intelligence, and  banking, and may tie directly into MK‐ULTRA. We've also seen a concerted effort to cover up the origins of one of America's wealthiest banking families -- the Morgans. We've seen ties to the American fascists. And what's worse, we've uncovered a possible cover‐up of a conspiracy to commit the murder of a U.S. president -- John F. Kennedy."

That is pretty sensational stuff! Who on earth would have thunk it? I will not reply to every detail of the essay (or his Red Ice interview). That would take forever as Irvin covers so much ground and invokes so many, many names (apparently he spent five or more years developing these conspiracy ideas). The error of Irvin's reasoning process can be traced to the unwarranted conclusions he draws. It is my opinion that this is the crux of the matter. In other words, Irvin promotes guilt by association. Because Wasson knew a certain person, and because that person knew someone else, and because that person did something really bad, then Wasson must have been in on it.

For instance, Irvin makes the point that Wasson knew George De Mohrenschildt, who himself knew Lee Harvey Oswald. Yet that does not mean Wasson was conspiratorially involved in the assassination of JFK (as Irvin repeatedly alludes). How many commissions and hearings were there concerning the assassination of JFK? How many investigators looked into it? Heaps and heaps -- investigating the JFK assassination was an industry unto itself! Yet, as far as I know, Wasson was never called in to testify or account for himself or whatever. Certainly, he was never arrested and put on trial, and his name is not usually mentioned in significant connection with the JFK assassination. So what if Wasson's phone number was in De Mohrenschildt's notebook? There were probably hundreds of names in there. Both he and Wasson were bigwigs, knew one another, and moved in similar circles (Wasson was a high ranking banker). But if we play the guilt by association game, we can, of course, go ‘aha!' and condemn Wasson. It would be akin to condemning Irvin himself for some heinous crime simply because of an email he got from someone, or because a link could be made between him and an associate who committed some crime. Guilt by association is a dangerous game to play.

Here is another pertinent retort to Irvin, this time addressing Irvin's interpretation of a certain letter that he read out during his Red Ice interview. Let me quote from Tommy Decentralized, whose contrary interpretations of this letter were deleted by Irvin on Irvin's website. Tommy writes:

"Jan Irvin read a letter on Red Ice radio that, allegedly, is a letter by George Kennan to Gordon Wasson, from April, 1953. It appears the letter sent to Wasson by Kennan, is Kennan rejecting an offer to be recruited into the CIA. Irvin assumes Wasson must be a high level CIA agent for knowing about the CIA's recruitment efforts. The reality, however, is that Wasson, Allen Dulles [another guilt-by-association figure mentioned in the letter], and Kennan, were all friends. They had worked together previously via The Ford Foundation -- which used grants for Russian students to come to the US to study, a focus being on the liberal arts. By 1953, however, Kennan wrote new strategies concerning the containment of communism. Kennan had a "change of heart" by the time that letter was sent. Kennan no longer felt that a secret intelligence was needed, and that it would be better to talk with Russia and China. He also felt that communism could be contained by promoting education and capitalism to neighboring and third world countries. Kennan was made head of the Free Russia Fund that focused on exchange students with Russia. Kennan also felt that the US should support anti-communist countries as well and that there was no need for the CIA. In my opinion it was these new strategies for the containment of communism that Kennan proposed to congress, that Kennan was referring to in the letter that Jan read. It doesn't make sense that Kennan would work indirectly for the CIA, because by 1953, when the letter was sent, Kennan opposed the existence of the CIA. Kennan also regretted many of the talks he had given and papers he had previously written that were being misconstrued in the Cold War conduct. Therefore I feel Jan Irvin's speculation that the letter meant Kennan would secretly work for the CIA is false."

In other words, Irvin draws unfounded inferences from this letter, yet makes those unfounded inferences seem real, for he states outright in the interview that Wasson was an agent for the CIA. Repeating such unwarranted allegations to listeners who may know little about Wasson, Kennan, and all the other names dropped by Irvin, might well make those listeners simply take Irvin at his word. An endless stream of names, letters, documents, connections, and citations -- it all sounds terribly convincing and so it must be true!

On a similar note, much is made by Irvin concerning the Century Club in New York (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Association). According to Irvin, this club was a ‘front' for the CIA, a place where the CIA/Elite could conspire about mind control and world domination. Again, Irvin asserts this outright as if it were an established fact. Yet there is no conclusive evidence for this allegation at all. Over 100 years old and still going strong, the secretary there apparently sent Irvin a list of historical Club members, and this showed that many of them were members of the Office of Strategic Services (the OSS was a WW2 intelligence gathering organization). So what? The Century Club was for high powered New York socialites. Movers and shakers. Given that governmental organizations and secret services have thousands and thousands of staff, many of them are likely to be members of exclusive clubs. But just because someone was once in the OSS does not make them a sinister conspirational miscreant who graduated to the CIA.

And even if there were lots of CIA people at the Century Club, what of it? They had to hang out somewhere. It should also be borne in mind that back in the paranoid Cold War days of the 1950s, the CIA might well have been deemed an asset by the general public. If CIA agents were working behind the scenes to stop the dreaded Communist threat, many Americans would have thought of them as patriotic heroes as opposed to the way we may think of CIA agents today. In any case, one could doubtless find a way to link a randomly chosen Century Club member to, say, the arms industry. Or to Nazi Germany. Or to pharmaceutical giants. Or to Middle Eastern oil barons. Or right wing Fundamentalist Christians. Or any dodgy group or person that you care to think of. It means very little. Unless you are intent on making it mean something by way of guilt by association.

For the record, and from reviewing Irvin's copious work, I don't doubt that Wasson mingled with CIA people and other intelligence operatives. I guess he must have, as they moved in similar circles. As stated, the Cold War and the socio-political climate was different in the 1950s. People in positions of power and influence would have been talking about the relationship between the USA and the Soviet Union. Wasson may even have openly discussed his visionary mushroom encounters with CIA people. But, from direct experience, he would have well known that psilocybin would not be any good as a "truth serum" for espionage purposes. So when Irvin reckons that the aforementioned CIA infiltration of one of Wasson's trips to Mexico was but a red herring to act as a cover and throw off future investigators, and that Wasson was James Moore's superior at the CIA. Irvin is actually bending over backwards trying to fit everything together (like forcing jigsaw pieces into a spurious pattern). If the CIA wanted to get their hands on the active ingredient of the mushroom, there was no need for convoluted cloak and dagger operations and double bluffs and such. Just send a man out to infiltrate Wasson's mushroom hunting party (as happened) and then bring back some mushroom samples. And if that fails to deliver up the active ingredient, then go straight to Sandoz after Sandoz has managed to isolate it. Pretty straightforward really. No need for twisted double bluffs to foil people fifty years hence.

There is also the question of the material Irvin garnered from both the Century Club and the CIA archives and which he uses to build his case. Is this lax security or what? Are we to conclude that the slick shenanigans of the Elite/CIA/NWO have been defeated by the Freedom of Information Act and/or obliging Club secretaries that are only too willing to photocopy personal letters dealing (allegedly) with shifty covert CIA operations? After apparently masterminding the entire psychedelic movement (as Irvin claims), are the Elite/CIA really that weak and stupid that they forgot to shred personal letters and documents? Did Wasson miss the CIA lesson on how to cover his trail? Or do these tracks, trails and clues exist only in Irvin's mind? In fact, one could equally play Irvin at his own game and argue that the big stack of documents that the CIA and the Century Club allowed Irvin easy access to were, in actuality, fake and purposefully designed to confuse him, thereby throwing him off the real trail. After all, if history is little more than Illuminati-orchestrated mind control as Irvin believes, why would he himself be immune from its omnipotent, sinister influence? Maybe he himself is being played.

Another indication that all is not what it seems is the letter Irvin wrote to the Gordon Wasson Archives at Harvard asking for access to the material held there. The Harvard curators asked about the nature of his research and Irvin told them, in candid detail, what his aims were. Irvin wrote:

"I'm especially interested in missives that would show Wasson to have intentionally created the psychedelic movement via his ties to [Henry] Luce through the CFR and Century and the head of the CIA."

Given the curious nature of Irvin's request, it is perhaps understandable that the Harvard curators wanted nothing whatsoever to do with him, and thus they flatly denied him access. Here is what Irvin says about this unsurprising brick wall reaction:

"Of course this was the response I was expecting I'd get. Myself and several professors interested in investigating this matter had discussed this topic and how I should proceed. If I were granted access to the archives, then great, I'd be able to verify a handful of the other, less important materials. If, on the other hand I was denied access, then I'd just publish their refusal to grant access and bring attention to the issue. In fact, publishing their notice of refusal to grant access is almost better than giving me access, as it shows a probability that there is a concerted effort to keep people out of the Wasson archives if they aren't likely to perpetuate the Wassonian legends and myths."

This is telling. It sounds like Irvin orchestrated the block against him in order to support his unfounded conspiracy ideas. Yet, if Irvin had just played the game and said he was doing basic biographical research (or gotten someone else to approach Harvard), he could have gotten access to Wasson's personal documents with ease and could then have found more evidence to blow open Wasson's alleged secret CIA operations! If Irvin really, really cared for the truth, and really, really thought people in the psychedelic community were being hoodwinked, he would have said anything to access those records that he apparently believes to be so important. Yet he didn't, did he? He approached Harvard in such a way that he knew they would block him.

Things become even more odd. To support his allegations, Irvin has made use of "Brain software," which allows a user to show how everything is connected. To be sure about it, the issue here is the interconnectedness of people and organizations, something that Irvin is nigh on obsessed with (he has an impressive memory for names and associations). It is precisely these connections and associations that constitute Irvin's finger of guilt. Yet, just because there are connections between people and organizations, does not mean that sinister Illuminati conspiracies are afoot. I am here reminded of the movie Six Degrees of Separation, where the viewer learns that everyone is connected to everyone via other people. Indeed, I wonder if Irvin has ever considered exploring "Brain" connections with himself at the centre, or with controversial mushroom author John Allegro at the centre? If one were really intent on making conspiracy connections, the results might prove interesting.

Another point to make is that Irvin and his followers repeatedly invoke the Trivium, an ancient psychological system designed to facilitate knowledge acquisition and effective reason. The Trivium is wielded like a powerful amulet by Irvin's followers (some critics have called it a "fetish"). The assumption is that those who do not use the Trivium cannot see as clearly (i.e. see the big mind control conspiracies) as those, like Irvin and his followers, who do use it. In fact, as Tommy Decentralized has pointed out (before Irvin once again deleted his posts), the Trivium can rightly be used to debunk conspiracy theories! And, as Irvin has pointed out elsewhere, the Trivium can even be used to mislead people.

At the end of the day, what everything really boils down is interpretation. I have heard Irvin speak of the so-called "grammar" of the Trivium (the who, what, where and when) as being akin to bricks. And that once the bricks have been established, a house can be built. But the truth, it seems to me, is that Irvin is building something according to the dictates of his imagination as opposed to revealing an objectively existing building. This is to say that he takes all these bricks (people, places, associations -- the who, what, where and when) and then builds a vast conspiratorial architecture that is not actually there at all. So it is not an objective house of bricks that Irvin has constructed, but rather a paranoid house of cards.

All this suggests that Irvin is using his beloved Trivium in an erroneous manner. Here is an astonishing quote of Irvin's from his two hour Red Ice interview: "Anybody who tells you that logic goes first is a sophist and is trying to trick you." Say what? Anybody who does not use the Trivium and applies their own brand of logic and common sense when making a judgment about an issue is out to trick others? That contention sounds mighty paranoid and elitist to me!

If I am correct about all this (and I should point out that I have told Irvin that I will issue a public apology if his conspiracy ideas about Wasson, Alan Watts, McKenna, et al, turn out to be true beyond all reasonable doubt), then what we have here is an outbreak of conspiracy-based paranoia, hitherto more usually found in other areas of the socio-collective psyche. In point of fact, Irvin's take on reality is remarkably similar in kind to the scurrilous, fear-mongering paranoia whipped up by Lyndon LaRouche (check out LaRouche's sordid nuttiness on Wikipedia). The danger with paranoia is that it promotes an atmosphere of fear and mistrust. The psilocybin mushroom then becomes clouded and muddied. People may miss the point. And what is the point? The point is the actual psilocybin mushroom itself, the very fungal organism lauded and spread by Wasson over half a century ago and later cultured and further spread by McKenna. It is the potential ability of the psilocybin mushroom to empower an individual and boost their consciousness that is the key thing we are in danger of missing amidst all this fear-mongering. The virtuous effects of psilocybin (particularly their eco-psychological effects) is what the psychedelic community should be promoting, not fear and mistrust. Hence, the psychedelic community is obliged to make a stand on this issue. But that's just my opinion. Make of it what you will.

To conclude, I offer a germane quote from Jonathan Ott concerning the capacity of psilocybin to afford ecological/biospherical sensitivity. In Pharmacotheon Ott writes:

"I firmly believe that the contemporary spiritual use of entheogenic drugs is one of humankind's brightest hopes for overcoming the ecological crisis with which we threaten the biosphere and jeopardize our own survival, for Homo sapiens is close to the head of the list of endangered species. We need to recapture the mysterium tremendum of the unio mystica, the millennial awe our ancestors felt in the divine presence, in the sublime majesty of our marvelous Universe, in the entheogenic "bemushroomed" state the sage Gordon Wasson described."

NOTE -- this essay dealt chiefly with Irvin's take on Wasson. Examining his most recent video where he repeatedly calls Terence McKenna a "wilful idiot," and where he makes disturbing allegations against the Esalen Institute, Alan Watts, Aldous Huxley, and others, needs to be dealt with by someone else. Indeed, I have, by now, really had enough of all this. Thus, in the Comments section below, I expect others involved in the recent heated debates to step in and make their opinions known (at the time of writing, that most recent video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b9OvRAKfzw&feature=share&list=UU_lvvd3d3K7NgLtWstl6YNg)

ADDITIONAL -- thanks to Joe Rogan, Tommy Decentralized, Jonny Enoch, and those others who offered me words of support when things were getting really heated.

ADDENDUM (10/10/12) -- The author I quoted from at the start of the essay – namely John Marks (author of The Search for the Manchurian Candidate) – was, I assume, the man who first found out about the CIA guy who infiltrated Wasson's 1958 trip to Mexico. I have just discovered that there is a Wiki page about him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Marks

It occurred to me that if anyone could have found out about whether or not Wasson was indeed a CIA spy, then it would be this John Marks fellow. Indeed, as Wiki states: "Marks' award-winning 1979 book The Search for the Manchurian Candidate describes a wide range of CIA activities during the Cold War, including unethical drug experiments in the context of a mind-control and chemical interrogation research program. The book is based on 15,000 pages of CIA documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act and many interviews, including those with retired members of the psychological division of the CIA, and the book describes some of the work of psychologists in this effort with a whole chapter on the Personality Assessment System."

That sounds like much more extensive research than Irvin undertook. Yet no evidence, as far as I recall, that Wasson was a CIA agent.

Finally, Andrew Rutajit has been in touch and stated that it was a “fantastic article” and that he was in “full support” of me. Andrew once worked with Irvin at Gnostic Media and they are also co-authors. Andrew also requested that he would like his name to be added to those, mentioned above, who have been supporting me.   

 

Image by AJC1, courtesy of Creative Commons license. 

Comments

There is a dialog on 'planned evolution'

Huxley mentioned the fantastic advancements in current (at the time) technologies for the purpose of influencing and controlling the individual. These included chemical and electronic as well as psychological and physioglogical ...stress.

He also says (in the above audio) we should imagine what could happen if these new technologies fell into the wrong hands.   

Technology involving psychochemical and electronic control of biological organisms is categorically similar to the convergent technologies of IT, AI, genetic engineering, nanotech and robotics and thier implimentation.

That's the stuff of transhumanism, and it should be no suprise that Aldous's brother, Julian, coined the term, and was a leading eugenicist.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism#Specter_of_coercive_eugenicism

a b Annas, GeorgeAndrews, Lori and Isasi, Rosario (2002). "Protecting the endangered human: toward an international treaty prohibiting cloning and inheritable alterations". Am. J. Law & Med. 28: 151.

Esalen is more involved in the human potential movement, the psychotherapy aspect. 

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Human-Potential+Movement

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An Actual Man

http://www.esalen.org/place/bookstore/actual_man.html

"Michael Murphy is not only the cofounder of Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California; he is also the author of the best-selling novel, Golf in the Kingdom, soon to be a major motion picture. Further, he is the author of several non-fiction books: The Future of the Body, and The Life We are Given, among others. But perhaps most important, he is the origin and guiding light of the human potential movement. Since the 1960s, Michael and Esalen have spawned the holistic health movement, the extension of eastern mysticism into American culture, biodynamic gardening, and a welter of other culturally significant trends from somatics and massage to the revisioning of philosophy." 

 

x

David Icke is guilty of all the same paranoid meanderings as Irvin, but when the rubber hits the road for a presentation evidence (evidence that would hold up in a court of law) there is NONE. For sure, I do believe that there are conspiracies of sorts, albeit not of the magnitude nor the insane and impossible complexity posited by Irvin and icke. Conspiracy THEORISTS do not like to take personal responsibility for their lives.-that's one of the draws of their irrational thinking; It's always someone else fault; the Illuminati, the Skull & Bones, the CFR, ad nauseum....It's how they can relinquish having to exercise reason and be responsible for their words, deeds, and actions. It's victimization gone wild. I am a man of reason, facts, and truth that can be presented with causal connections and certainty. If one is not sure of what they are espousing then they need to treat it as such and not as a fact. To be sure, there are sketchy workings in high (and low) places, but any progress toward ascertaining that truth must be studied with diligence and not quackery.

Primary documents

Irvin is presenting primary source documents from official freedom of information requests, such as letters from Allen Dulles to Wasson. How exactly does this equate to having no evidence?

xx

@Tristan, presenting a letter of correspondence between Dulles and Wasson is not evidence of Wasson working in cahoots with the CIA. That is an accusation that is inferred only by Irvin, it is not demonstrable evidence of his accusation of Wasson.

lols

Someone else just sent that same rant to me. I feel so lucky! :) Here's what I said in a she said he said thingy about that. in this bizarre gossip game worthy of Perez Hilton and TMZ. 
Wow, he just goes on and on. sorry if I make this short, he’s really quite boring to me. Especially with his constant name calling. ‘sigh’ The letter he read on red ice and has not posted online, is the one that he claims was sneaked out of Harvard by a friend. Well, maybe he doesn't want to post it, because of how it was obtained, understandable. I've said all along I believe every “citation” he got is what he claims they are, i believe him on that. I just thought it was funny that he’s asking others to prove his citation are real. When he hasn't even showed them all ie posted them online. Anyway, this is what he said on red ice: “In other words he’s (Kennan) saying I do not want to be an agent but I will work for you directly, for the president and for the director of the CIA” Irvin is saying Kennan will work directly for Allen Dulles the head of the CIA. He also went on to say “Kennan was involved in the assassination of JFK” What I say is what the majority of historians say, quote: “Soon after his concepts had become U.S. policy, Kennan began to criticize the foreign policies that he had seemingly helped launch. Subsequently, prior to the end of 1948, Kennan was confident the state of affairs in Western Europe had developed to the point where positive dialogue could commence with the Soviet Union. His proposals were discounted by the Truman administration and Kennan’s influence was marginalized, particularly after Dean Acheson was appointed secretary of state in 1949. Soon thereafter, U.S. Cold War strategy assumed a more assertive and militaristic quality, causing Kennan to lament over what he believed was as an aberration of his previous assessments. In 1950, Kennan left the Department of State, except for two brief ambassadorial stints in Moscow and Yugoslavia and became a leading realist critic of U.S. foreign policy. He continued to be a leading thinker in international affairs as a faculty member of the Institute for Advanced Study from 1956 until his death at age 101 in March 2005.”
Kennan and JFK were friends. Not close friends, but they wrote each other, and spoke in person a few times. Kennan was upset that JFK approved the pay of pigs, and with the direction the cold war build up was going. JFK told Kennan that he agrees with him, but has to put on a front. Again I’m just repeating what historians say about Kennan and JFK. Communism was seen as a real threat back then. Kennan helped bring over many defectors of communism and Nazi Germany. Kennan himself cannot be held responsible for other people’s crimes that they may, or may not have committed. The main point I had been trying to make, which Kennan himself made very clear in the letter, is he wanted nothing to do with them. Unless they wanted to take his new advice directly or indirectly. His new advice included disbanding the CIA, pulling out all spies from around the world, and dealing with nations as a whole. In negotiations for disarmament, and peaceful solutions.
I will never try and defend Gordon Wasson, I think he’s a peace of _______.
as for Irvin debunking my popup fallacy video. Not on your life!
1. Hasty Generalization: Irvin suspects Mckenna might be an “agent” (vague description) based on Mckenna saying one child per family could reduce the use of Earth’s resources. And that it might be better, in his opinion, if the world had more women and less men. Many NWO conspiracy theorist consider “depopulation” as part of their™ “plan”. Irvin also claims entheogens are used for mind control, in that they can get one to accept eastern religious ideologies of all being connected to one, all is one, and that we are destroying mother earth. And that positive movements are also part of their™ plan. Mckenna talked about a lot of things, Irvin cherry picks ideas and opinions, and then makes a hasty generalization that Mckenna must be an “agent” or a “willful idiot”.
2. Straw Man: Saying someone doesn't have critical thinking skills, and not discussing the actual topic, is a straw man attack.
3. Anecdotal Evidence: Irvin doesn't know what all McKenna has studied, and or took a deep interest into. Irvin doesn't know if McKenna studied the Trivium or not. Irvin’s claim is based on what little he has found out about the man in the public arena.
4. Ad Hominem: Calling McKenna an “agent” in the manner being used, is a personal attack. Irvin is name calling, despite admitting he doesn't know if it’s true.
5. False Dilemma: Leaving only these two choices “willful idiot” and or “agent”, is a False Dilemma. Maybe McKenna was being blacked mailed by someone, and was unwilling. Maybe his brain tumor, or some other brain defect like a chemical imbalance, caused him to think irrationally at times, who knows, it could be any number of thing’s. But Irvin makes an attack while ignoring the actual topic- starvation and the biosphere. “Willful idiot” is an Ad Hominem personal attack, and Irvin used it for a choice. And the other choice “agent” is a fear mongering Ad Hominem attack, one Irvin says he cant prove anyway. Therefore, Irvin clearly made a False Dilemma. (only two choices, when there could be many)
6. Argument from Ignorance: Irvin has already left only two choices. That McKenna is either a “willful idiot”, or an “agent”. But he doesn't know that, and so he argues for those two choices by using the ignorance card, of not knowing. But more research might revel the truth he claims. The reason this is a fallacious argument, is because Irvin has already left only two choice. He didn't use grammar first. He gave only two choices but then says the research has to been done after the fact, and not before the fact of his false dilemma of only two choices, “agent or willful idiot”.
7. Circumstantial Ad Hominem: Irvin suggest it’s a mighty strange and fishy coincident, that McKenna’s archives were burned in a fire. He uses this fallacy right after stating his appeal to ignorance that more research into McKenna needs to be done, so that Irvin can then prove the claims he’s already made. But it’s Irvin’s attitude of how convenient that the fire happened, is what makes it a Circumstantial Ad Hominem. Irvin hints that the fire was done to cover up something that might prove the claims he’s already made. It’s a conspiracy!
8. Appeal to Rumor: It’s a popular rumor that the fire was in Big Sur, California, at the Esalen Institute. And or that Esalen owned the office building in Monterey, California, which is where the fire actually happened. The truth is that the building was owned by musician and former city Planning Commissioner Mike Marotta. The fire broke out in the basement of the Jugem Japanese Restaurant. The building wasn’t owned by Esalen, and it didn’t happen at Esalen. That is an untrue rumor.

Many good points and

Many good points and resources in this argument. It's fun to dig at the truth. However I'm left with only a heartfelt *giggle* at this spar...have the debaters consulted with the plant medicines/psychedelic substances themselves lately?

For those of us lucky enough to have access to psychedelics, let's use them to help resolve conflicts (within ourselves and in all of our relationships) and to see, each at his/her own pace, the futility of needing to be right and make the other wrong.

Thanks

"Everything is blooming most recklessly; if it were voices instead of colors, there would be an unbelievable shrieking into the heart of the night." - Rainer Maria Rilke

not good enough

@drew hempel, we are all still waiting for the actual EVIDENCE of your claims...

This is interesting...

The chap I quoted from at the start of my essay - John Marks (author of The Search for the Manchurian Candidate) - he was, I assume, the man who first found out about the CIA guy who infiltrated Wasson's 1958 trip to Mexico. I just discovered that there is a Wiki page about him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Marks

Now, it occurred to me that if anyone could have found out about whether or not Wasson was a CIA spy (sic), then it would be this guy. Indeed, as Wiki states: "Marks' award-winning 1979 book, The Search for the Manchurian Candidate describes a wide range of CIA activities during the Cold War, including unethical drug experiments in the context of a mind-control and chemical interrogation research program. The book is based on 15,000 pages of CIA documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act and many interviews, including those with retired members of the psychological division of the CIA, and the book describes some of the work of psychologists in this effort with a whole chapter on the Personality Assessment System."

That sounds like tons more 'citations' and research that Irvin undertook. Yet no evidence, as far as I know, that Wasson was with the CIA.

aftrthsimdun

Thank you, Tristan G., Drew H., (@ times overzealous Jan I. just a suggestion: maybe, tune it back a dial, and wait ) –for having a grip on reality and even (Simon P. , though you seem still to have many blind spots), but onemilliondiamonds and others who can't get past that their heroe's may have had sneaky-deaky dealings and continue to demand proof as if that changes anything. If ya can't add two and two, I don't know how anyone could convince you, and maybe no one should bother to try; (2nd suggestion to Jan I.).

 

onemilliondiamonds and humanity in general, needs to get a grip on use of the word Reason "...I am a man of reason...facts and truth...causal connections and certainty" , yadayadayada. O.M.D.s apparently thinks reason is the only compass to use to determine truth when in reality, reason is not at all a good tool for discernment. For example, even a paedophile has reasons for the things he does and can probably come up with good reasons to justify his paedophillia. Come on! Be reasonable, kids!

 

This is, unfortunately, what Western (European) civilization (if anyone could truly call it that) bases it's concepts of thought and practice on. You know, the Age of Reason? Reason; ha! Reason is what got us in this mess in the first place. Reason is the biggest copout ever invented. It's reason that directs any and all action, from the CIA, trippy hippies, the Rockefellers and Rothschilds, to the US goobermint, the EEEUW, Wallstreet, London, to the Devil and Jesus Christ. O.M.D.s xpects me to take most of the blame for the state of things, but I'd have to stand by and say I have my reasons for not taking blame for most of the shit that happens in the world. It's not all about me, and yet, somehow it is. What could be the reason?

it's not the question it's the answer

Maybe we should go back to the beginning of the hippie trip somewhere summer of love 67' where the oroboros rabbit hole opened up take the leap into the blonde on blonde abyss, where novelty met the poetic marvelous in the kaleidoscope of blossoming flower fractal lonely hearts at the center of the mikyway hallucination holon and do the time warp again, maybe this time we will find the language that we used eating its own tail of language.Far out! ... reason, called Good, is alone from the Soul.
3. That God will torment Man in Eternity for following his Energies.
But the following Contraries to these are True:--
1. Man has no Body distinct from his Soul, for that called Body is a portion of Soul discerned by the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age.
2. Energy is the only life and is from the Body, and Reason is the bound or outward circumference of Energy.
3.

I would like to point out a

I would like to point out a series of articles on the web which may be of interest here. This series does not pertain directly to Wasson, etc, but does put forth the notion that the "hippie movement" was a creation of the CIA. Might be considered conspiracy theory and might contain some speculation, but this is some really interesting reading:

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/

Inside the LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation.

xxx

"We're playing with half a deck as long as we tolerate that the cardinals of government and science should dictate where human curiosity can legitimately send its attention and where it can not. It's an essentially preposterous situation. It is essentially a civil rights issue, because what we're talking about here is the repression of a religious sensibility. In fact, not a religious sensibility, the religious sensibility."---Terenc McKenna (Non-Ordinary States Through Vision Plants (1988)

Simon Powell

Simon Powell is a much needed breath of fresh air. He understands the important role of entheogens in our spiritual development and its inherent role in nature as a real acting force of intelligence. I cannot recommend his books highly enough! Inspiring!

Drew darling

I've seen the power principle. If Irvin was making a case that Kennan supported capitalism and capitalism is bad. I'd be all like hell yes it is. But he doesn't. In fact Irvin supports open free market capitalism. But nice red herring of yours, Drew. Irvin said Kennan would work for the CIA on the side for Dulles, and Irvin was wrong about that. Irvin is the one that brought it up. If you don't think he should be talking about Kennan, tell him that. I was only helping him by correcting his mistake. You cant accept that Kennan is not who your cult leader tells you he is, and so you defend the lie with red herring rhetoric. which is hilarious btw. That's your problem not mine. But let's move on from kennan, anyone with an actual brain and not a mind controlled computer program "the brain" can look into Kennan themselves, he was very out spoken against US foreign policy. He's been on meet the press and other popular shows, and has written several books and gave a ton of speeches. Research the man, and spare the Noam Chomsky talks, I'm pretty sure everyone here is quite familiar with Chomsky.
The beatniks came before the counter culture. a lot of the people Irvin names are from that generation, not the counter culture. Hippies themselves have a much longer history, a very long history: "Hippie Roots & The Perennial Subculture" http://www.hippy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=243
Irvin reminds me of the saying "if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth"
Here's a bunch of LaRouche articles that predate Irvin's: http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2004/eirv31/eirv31n25.pdf
LaRouche's "Fascism with a Humanist face" http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Cult.Ideologies
"Letters of Note" - http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/1984-v-brave-new-world.html
LaRouche declares war on rock and roll:  http://www.digitalhemp.com/eecdrom/HTML/EMP/14/ECH14_16.HTM
and of course, The Aquarian Conspiracy: http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.aquarianconspiracyeir.htm
I also recommend looking into The Burned Over District, if you want to know where the new age movements actual began in the US. and there was also use of entheogens going on there with the Native American Indians.and there still is a lot of stuff going on there, as it's called "America's Holy Land" 
If you want to know what happens when on takes entheogens, as in why the seekers have these beliefs of being connected, spirits, souls, etc I highly recommend looking into Neurotheology and "The God Part Of The Brain" 
And the reason i bring that up, is to show there's no need for some secret NWO to reprogram what everyone already believes, thanks to evolution. 

Reason is essential

Without reason this medical breakthrough would never have happened; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_penicillin

Old hat

Yep, and reason elevated it to a much better therapeutic level and understanding. I much prefer my antibiotics come from a pharmaceutical company who specializes in manufacturing it as opposed to relying on mouldy food and stuffs.

One Religion and the UN

As I see it, Jan Irvin is merely atttempting to warn users of the darker intentions of the control mechanism behind "New Age" beliefs that have been refered to as the "second catch web" designed to round up those not bound by traditional religions.

As I understand it, Terence McKenna was influenced by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and his Omega Point theory. I recently ran across a video seminar by a christian creationist who points out the UN's wishes to develop a "world religion" based on the works of Alice Bailey and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Minutes 18 & 49 make interesting points related to this very conversation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7KpEFERuSg

Live well, be free

omega omshemega

Just because Terence reflected on Omega doesn't make him some creationist, he might of used that as a kind on jumping off point, along with James Joyce, Alfred North Whitehead, Heraclitus,surrealism and jazz, jeeze.Lets stop placing Terence in the either/or bracket.He was no saint, and he was no sinner.You people that try to pigeon hole him along with some pet conspiracy, are doing the work of the very forces you proclaim against.Terence has been called a cultist, an apostate, a charlatan, a creationist, a useful idiot, a seeing double agent, a snake oil salesman, a Millennialist, a psychedelic chia pet hippie dippy, a shamanologist, a strutting peacock philosopher poet, an entertainer end of history ban the bomb agitator weirdo ufo nut, Ad infinitum, Ad nauseum, please let Terence be himself.And rest in peace and love.

Still missing the point

I never said TM was a creationist. I tried to bring an understanding of Chardin's influence as percieved by a creationist who looked into the UN's plans for a world religion tied to shamanism, meditation...etc. 

It appears most of this thread is emotion driven due to a lack of understanding the point being beware of your beliefs even if they are agreed upon by many people. 

 Live well, be free

never said

but implyed by association, I haven't the slighest notion what the later part of this comment is supposed to mean, you however have no emotion? maybe we should just narrow down this whole conversation, and argue about who has emotions and who claims to not have emotions.Or should we narrow it to the creationist that has plans to use shamanism.

Wasson's Life article about psilocybin mushrooms

For readers who know very little about Wasson and, in particular, his seminal 1957 Life magazine article about psilocybin mushrooms, here is a link to a web version of it: http://www.imaginaria.org/wasson/life.htm

Questions

For open minded people still reading this: if we bog down in the details or get involved in petty personal attacks, we're missing the bigger picture here.

Here are some further questions to contemplate, for those interested in research rather than drama:

How exactly did Wasson's story make it into Time magazine? Is this the sort of article that could have been planted by Operation Mockingbird?

What influence did the Tavistock Institute have with Esalen? Why were Abraham Maslow and B.F. Skinner so closely involved with Esalen? What sorts of policies did they help enact?

Aldous Huxley met with Aleister Crowley in 1930 and Crowley allegedly introduced Huxley to peyote, two decades before Huxley took mescaline with Humphry Osmond. What other relations might Huxley have had with "the most evil man in the world"?

Julian Huxley was an outspoken eugenicist, following in the footsteps of his grandfather Thomas Huxley who was a vocal proponent of Social Darwinism, the idea that class warfare against poor people could be rationally justified using science. How did Social Darwinism influence Julian Huxley's eugenics philosophies, and the term he coined which is now a cutting edge field study: Transhumanism?

@ Tristan Gulliford

1. "How exactly did Wasson's story make it into Time magazine? Is this the sort of article that could have been planted by Operation Mockingbird?"
-He had a lot of connections. Davison, Morrow, CD Jackson, and Luce. Luce is connected, suspected, to mockingbird. Mockingbird was the liberal view, but favors big business capitalism and anti-communist views. These views are paid views ie propaganda. 
2. "What influence did the Tavistock Institute have with Esalen? Why were Abraham Maslow and B.F. Skinner so closely involved with Esalen? What sorts of policies did they help enact?"
--well, they seem to agree with many that drugs can be mind expanding and this could lead to a new revolution, like a religious type of one. This is a belief i personally do not share and never have. but many still do today. Esalen would be the american version of Tavistock, a place where the who's who can hang out and do drugs and share ideas. I don't think there is/was some sinister plot there.
3. "Aldous Huxley met with Aleister Crowley in 1930 and Crowley allegedly introduced Huxley to peyote, two decades before Huxley took mescaline with Humphry Osmond. What other relations might Huxley have had with "the most evil man in the world"?"
--Crowley played people, if you got scared that he seemed "evil" (w/e that is), he played on that. They experimented with drugs, and researched drug use in various cultures and religions. which is pretty common stuff today. 
4. "Julian Huxley was an outspoken eugenicist, following in the footsteps of his grandfather Thomas Huxley who was a vocal proponent of Social Darwinism, the idea that class warfare against poor people could be rationally justified using science. How did Social Darwinism influence Julian Huxley's eugenics philosophies, and the term he coined which is now a cutting edge field study: Transhumanism?"
--Today we know that skin color pigmentation is do to geographical location. As Negros from Africa migrated north away from the equator, their skin got lighter, do to UV rays and the much need vitamin B from the Sun. Other mutations happened from environmental surroundings, including diet, other species, and viruses one is exposed to, etc. So this idea that eugenics could get rid of other races of men, is nonsense. We all share the very same Negro ancestors. "Racism: A pigment of your imagination" http://youtu.be/-AT90iWCjwE
"Journey Of Man: Genetic Odyssey (PBS Documentary)" http://youtu.be/MLh775nMBHQ
--We have a real problem with starvation in this world. I say greed is the main problem, since there's not enough money to be made in feeding the poor. Other's think birth control is a good idea. What do you think? 

I have an idea

Attack Crowley for giving Huxley peyote, and then we can blame everything on him.

Naaaa

Scapegoating is a lazy solution to this puzzle. We're talking about elements of culture that reach back into ancient times that involve powerful agents that have been outlawed due to their threat to the power structure. Tools that are now known to be the basis of religions worldwide until money took over.

Perhaps it is the need to replace money that is the reason THEY want us to open the windows up in here.  How's that for a cute little thought?... and nobody gets blamed.

Live well, be free

I agree

Lazy solutions are polutions.And arbitrary laws only make outlaws.

I don't get it...

what's the point? there is masterful work from watts, wasson, huxley, everyone. are these writings controlling my mind for nefarious deeds? is that the point of the CIA--to turn us all on?! perhaps the CIA been infiltrated by shamen. how about that conspiracy?

 the conspiracy might be this sad in-fighting i see in the comments and elsewhere.

XXXX

@drew, I am well aware of garlic supplementation to help stave off infection ( I take Garlique daily myself) however there are many times when that is not enough (google it). Of course there are superbugs, there is no silver bullet with medication even assuming the strictest guidlelines were followed, but that is not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater - exercise some context.

#

@drew, wow...we've both gone waaaaayyy off topic. Interesting though.

materialist

sure is a lot of material to process here.

looks like an old-timey flame war..

.. brought on by septic narcissism. I can't tell who's got it worse, though.

notice

...how all this highfalutin internecine abstraction exchange goes absolutely nowhere, even at the expense of hyping the importance of something that pretends to disclose that which only the exchangers would know retroactively.To put yet another way, the supposed buried information that is ferreted out of some abysmal library at the pretense of bringing it to the light of the world is at the moment of its revealing then buried even deeper in the subtext lexicon of the purported independent researcher, in effect purloining it for further use in hypnotizing the affect.

knownothingmedia

is that like gnosticmedia?

speaking of Poe, if you no what he know

or knew what he new.

X

A I have stated before; If Jan's information was so profound and full of truth then it would have made wide circles in academia and several books would have been written on it. But it's not. It is 96% conjecture with 4% truth. Of course, his argument would be to blame the Bilderbergers, Rothschilds, and CIA for covering it up so well. Conspiracy theorists always think that the bad guys are in perfect control and they; Alex Jones, David Icke, and Jan Irvin, are the elite thinkers able to decipher and unlock the truth. Please. When Irvin submits evidence that would hold up in a court of law of TM or Wasson or whomever he accuses of working with the CIA, then I may listen, until then it is a waste of time to read his half cocked theories over and over and over without anything tangible to count for it. Irvin uses conjecture as though it were evidence. But most of his assertions are arbitrary. I will give Irvin credit for great work on "The Holy Mushroom..." but his stuff with the CIA and psychedelics is fractured at best.

one man's logic

It's rather odd that Jan uses the same logic as the CIA, if I understand correctly.Or rather he infers that the CIA knows about Plato's bastardized Pythagorean and and so does a even more bastardized version, by rerouting yet again the real thing by pretending to let the cat out of the bag.

v

drew and wildthing, both excellent points!

too much

is never enough, well I imagine too much is relative to too little.It's like how much Plato and bastardized Egyptian mystery.Oh, we have too much history, I think Whitehead said that.

Gene and Jan never studied the Trivium

In fact as far as I know no one in their study group has ever taken an actual course on critical thinking, and are no where near qualified to be "teaching" it to anyone. Which should be more than obvious, since they do not practice it at all. Jan's secret known about for years mushroom "history" speculation runs the full gambit of logical fallacies, as do most popular conspiracy theories. They also like to say the classical 7 liberal arts have been taken out of schooling, that they don't teach it in the right order. None of them have ever looked into that claim of theirs. They never took any course on it, so how could they know? They don't know, and blow smoke up the ying yang. They use the word "Trivium" like some sort of magical trump card. Luke, use the power of the Trivium. "Three Phases of Modern Education Linked to Classical Education Classical education developed many of the terms now used to describe modern education. Western classical education has three phases, each with a different purpose. The phases are roughly coordinated with human development, and would ideally be exactly coordinated with each individual student's development. "Primary education" teaches students how to learn. "Secondary education" then teaches a conceptual framework that can hold all human knowledge (history), and then fills in basic facts and practices of the major fields of knowledge, and develops the skills (perhaps in a simplified form) of every major human activity. "Tertiary education" then prepares a person to pursue an educated profession, such as law, theology, military strategy, medicine or science. [edit]Primary education In classical terms, primary education was often called the trivium, which consisted of three parts: grammar, logic, and rhetoric. Logic and rhetoric were often taught in part by the Socratic method, in which the teacher raises questions and the class discusses them. By controlling the pace, the teacher can keep the class very lively, yet disciplined. [edit]Grammar Grammar consists of language skills such as reading and the mechanics of writing. An important goal of grammar is to acquire as many words and manage as many concepts as possible so as to be able to express and understand clearly concepts of varying degrees of complexity. Classical education traditionally included study of Latin and Greek, which greatly reinforced understanding of grammar, and the workings of a language, and so that students could read the Classics of Western Civilization in the words of the authors. In the modern renaissance of classical education, this period refers to the upper elementary school years. [edit]Logic Logic (dialectic) is the science of correct reasoning. The traditional text for teaching logic was Aristotle's Logic. In the modern renaissance of classical education, this logic stage (or dialectic stage) refers to the junior high or middle school aged student, who developmentally is beginning to question ideas and authority, and truly enjoys a debate or an argument. Training in logic, both formal and informal, enables students to critically examine arguments and to analyze their own. The whole goal is to train the student's mind not only to grasp information, but to find the analytical connections between seemingly different facts/ideas, to find out why something is true, or why something else is false, in short, reasons for a fact. [edit]Rhetoric Rhetoric debate and composition (which is the written form of rhetoric) are taught to somewhat older (often high school aged) students, who by this point in their education have the concepts and logic to criticize their own work and persuade others. According to Aristotle "Rhetoric is the counterpart of dialectic." It is concerned with finding "all the available means of persuasion." The student now learns to articulate answers to important questions in his/her own words, to try to persuade others with these facts, and to defend ideas against rebuttal. The student has learned to reason correctly in the Logic stage so that they can now apply those skills to Rhetoric. Students would read and emulate classical poets such as Ovid and others in learning how to present their arguments well." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_education_movement Also there area ton of school devoted to teaching the classical seven liberal arts. List of liberal arts colleges: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_liberal_arts_colleges Usually critical thinking skills aka The Trivium, is often used to debunk conspiracy theories, and not so much the other way around: Critical Thinking About Conspiracies (Part 1) http://youtu.be/rXXXTqWBGpg Critical Thinking About Conspiracies | Part 2 http://youtu.be/jGhPCMcj0Q0 Conspiracies, Mind Control and Falsifiability http://youtu.be/UPkaB8YvD9k

LOL @ Drew Hempel

"Wow might as well as NAMED Jan Ir-vium in that first "critical thinking about conspiracies" podcast. haha."
--Appeal to Ridicule

"Got part 2 rolling.  His focus on the "moon hoax conspiracy theory" is bunk because that is a far extreme theory that some think is used just to dismiss other conspiracy theories as a whole."
--Cherry Picking. There are a lot of different conspiracy theories. That just happens to be one of them. 

"Like he says how someone would tell the secret if it was true.  Yeah but say that about 9/11"
--Well that is true, a 9/11 controlled demolition, which there's zero evidence to support, would require an awful lot of people to keep silent about their involvement. Is one hell of a speculation to promote. Try and look at thing's as in what could YOU actually prove beyond a doubt if you were in front of a jury. 
"or JFK -- there's a ton of "death by foul play" witnesses to the JFK assassination -- some 18 - - and at least 2 significant "foul play" deaths to witnesses of 9/11."
--Confusing Cause and Effect. People die all the time, sometimes even murdered. You don't know who killed who and for what reason, in concerning 9/11. There are so many different theories on JFK, and even 9/11. If you think you have all the answers to either one. You should bring forth your evidence and make your claim to fame and put it up for peer review in for the experts in the field.  My turn for some ridicule. My guess is you will only regurgitate what you've heard from others, and for some reason want to believe them and so you don't use critical thinking skills and run with hearsay and disinfo. I hear Irvin has a sale on tinfoil hats, you should go kiss up to him.

o rly?

"Well that is true, a 9/11 controlled demolition, which there's zero evidence to support, would require an awful lot of people to keep silent about their involvement."

 

From the fucking leaseholder. Maybe do some research before making BS claims. This is but a tip of the iceberg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsXdBlv2yvg&feature=player_embedded 

Larry Silverstein is Liar

The problem with assuming things about strangers, is that one is usually wrong. I devoted 6 years of my life to researching 9/11.  Larry Silverstein never made no such calls, he was not in charge of the building once it was severely damaged by falling debris and caught fire. When a building is on fire the fire department is in full charge and the building owner has no say. Listen for yourself:
http://youtu.be/_7rj5UQvlWw <br> <br> Anyway the point of me posting those videos was only to show that Jan is incorrectly "teaching" the Trivium. If you want to start a 9/11 thread, I'd more more than happy to go over the claims with you. As this thread is not about 9/11.  <br> <br> Jan claims that if McKennan, and even himself, had Trivium education, then he probably wouldn't have been a "willful idiot" like Jan himself once was, according to hi ow logic, or rather lack of. Of course this claims is bogus, since the trivium is actually, just basic critical thinking skills anyway. 

what I think of this jan guy

he is no gnostic

Why has Irvin left out Kerry Thornley?

Kerry Thornley was in the military with Lee Harvey Oswald. Kerry is the only person to have written about Oswald, before the JFK assassination. He also testified at the Warren Commission. Once out of the military Kerry got involved with the counter counter and new age type of stuff. And Psychedelics. Kerry was befriended by what he now believes to have been people in the CIA. He didn't "connect the dots" until later on in life. He made many of the same claims Jan does now, but includes Manson as a staged op. to pretty much end the counter couture. Like Mae Brussels has done as well. On Kerry:
"Thornley also claimed that "Kirstein" and Brooks had accurately predicted Richard M. Nixon's accession to the presidency six years before it happened, as well as anticipating the rise of the 1960s counterculture and the subsequent emergence of Charles Manson and what became his cult following. This led Thornley to believe that the US government had somehow been involved, directly or indirectly, in creating and/or supporting these events, personages and phenomena. In the wake of this period, Thornley came to believe (among many other things) that he had been a subject of the CIA's LSD experiments in the MK-ULTRA mind-control research program. While skeptics may dismiss as conspiracy theory some of his later notions – such as having been a product of occult-based Nazi Vril selective breeding programs – his claims regarding participation in such highly-classified US government mind-control programs and foreknowledge of the John F. Kennedy assassination are consistent with the time period, his residences, and the nature and locations of his military service." -wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Wendell_Thornley
Kerry on depopulation: http://youtu.be/eYjbrrFCwB4

old hat lets out the cat from its old bag

All this jive talk about who is who is what is spook is kook look the moment that assassins bullet entered Kennedy's brain his cells were still tripping off the last LSD flashback of sputniks and Marilyn Monroe singing happy birthday mister president.We cannot set the precedent by digging western top secret files and at that same time pretending that the west is best at educating our minds on how to grok the coincidences from the facts of a bottomless pit of false leads and blind alleys.Haven't you forgotten Philip K. Dick's black iron prison? Charles Manson is Marilyn Manson is the son of man is the beautiful people, now that you know who you are, the Walrus.Look deep into the negentropic fires of his acid crazed eyeballs, and you will see the world turned Helter Skelter in a reversed psychology that feeds off of fear and loathing.What great big eyes you have the better to deceive you with the better to create the psychedelic revolution out of "who me work" to bury the unknown hippie in a rabbit hole so deep he will never see the clear light of the void again.

Poetic

 

I love Dick (lol) He wrote some great stuff. imo. 

History is fascinating. Everyone has their opinion on it. I like conspiracy theories myself. And I would like some of them to be proven. Has Jan proven beyond a doubt that Gordon Wasson and Terence McKenna were in fact CIA agents? I don't think so. It's pretty well known that the CIA had agents in many movements in the US, from the black panthers, feminist, the KKK, and the counter culture, among others. But having agents spying on people, is not the same has creating a movement, and controlling it. The movements were inevitable outcomes ie organic outgrowths do to what was going on in the time periods. Much like Occupy wall street was/is a citizen response to this time period we're in, the economic crisis. Same with the 9/11 truth movement. A lot of questions went unanswered, and are still avoided like the plague by many. Such as US imperialism and support of Israeli aggression creates "terrorism" which is actually "blow back". During the time period Irvin is talking about communism was seen as a real threat. And there was civil and women's rights going on. Feminism is this radical idea that women are equals. Plus we had the Vietnam war. These injustices, and policing the world, alone created the movements. No CIA was needed to do that. One can make a case for mainstream media's communist propaganda had a play in it, but at the same time Russia was building up war a war just like the US and China were, and still are. 

 

correction

 Russia was building up for* a war just like the US and China were, and still are

You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

Tommy said: "Russia was building up for a war just like the US and China were, and still are"

While I don't want to get too off-topic, I agree that all three are building up for a war, but for Russian and China it is a defensive war. The Russians and the Chinese (and Iranians and Indians) can probably find a way to share the vast economic resources of Central Asia and the Middle East, and so the future is theirs (provided they can suppress the desires of their citizens to emulate socially and environmentally destructive Western life-styles). So Russia and China neither want nor need a war. After its defeats in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, the US is also not keen on more war, but without attacking, defeating and subjugating Russia, China and Iran the US will soon lose the position of global dominance that it now enjoys and wants to keep forever. So the US has a choice: go quietly (and kiss goodbye to the uncountable billions which have been spent on assuring dominance through military superiority) or unleash a global war which will probably quickly go nuclear even if it doesn't begin that way.

See Richard K. Moore's articles on this subject, in particular his Operation The Eagle Strikes.

For those interested, see also the large amount of 9/11 material on the same website.

Peter

The US is aggressive, sure. But so is China and Russia. China may soon be taking Taiwan again. China has been blocking our Navy ships and we do nothing. China took Hong Kong back when their lease was up not to long ago. China still occupies Africa, for 20 years now they've been in the Congo. and around that area. They're making deals with Brazil as well, and has been for some time. They've been making cyber attacks on the US, and advancing in being able to take out our satellites. They have a huge military, and without conflict of interest laws. We have more nukes than them, but i think that's about all. In the pentagon simulators we cant beat china. I don't think China wants a war with us, but they sure don't fear us that's for sure. China lowers the value of her own currency. Not many can compete with her, china is the one of the world's leading exporters. The US is a debt based consumer nation, and in debt to China. I don't have a crystal ball that says which countries wont be around much longer. But take a look at Russia, they collapsed, and are still there. Learn from that. The US isn't going anywhere, not anytime soon. Despite the doomsayers that seem to wish it would. Read Michael Hudson's book "Super Imperialism" and maybe even "Day of Reckoning" by Pat Buchanan (Freemason Illuminati,lol)

One More Thing....

One more thing. Although I agree the Chinese people want more freedoms and may seem to want to be more westernized. But I wouldn't get to carried away with that. China has mega cities.  "A total of 16 of the world's top 20 most polluted cities are in china. No. 1 on the World Bank list is Linfen City in Shanxi Province, China." They also have problems with home grown freedom fighters, or "terrorist" remember what happen during the Olympics there in 08. for an example. We're a bit cut off from them, so one has to dig to find out what's going on there. They got a lot of problems. Problems with the Tibetans who want their country back. Social injustices all around. Same problems everywhere else in the world I suppose. China is also looking to get out from being such a large exporter of goods. Which is understandable since dealing with foreign currencies is such an entanglement trying to collect for the debts owed. Hence their economic bubble they're in. But they're for sure a big player on the world market now. Many seem to be waking up to what the US has done, but it's a little tricky to stop our crafty bankers. Other countries purchase US bonds as a reserve currency that has purchasing power on the world market. US bonds are also used as balance in payment for trade deficits.  The amount of US bonds being purchased by foreign countries in turn finances the US dollar, national debt, and the wars abroad.