Paradoxical Polyamory
[The New Masculine] • Loving a promiscuous woman will make a man of you.
I've learned a lot from sex, but I think I may have learned more from the desperate, lonely nights spent wrestling with jealousy while my lover is somewhere else, riding another man's body to orgasm, than I have from my own ecstatic exploration. Given the inarguable sexual ramifications of the global shift now taking place from patriarchal patterns of dominance and control to matriarchal models of feeling and mastery, it just might be the case that for many men, being tortured toward manhood by our own cuckolding is the best medicine available.
I have always been attracted to sexually powerful women. Girlfriends in high school "cheated" on me. Later, as a young adult I was involved with several women who weren't satisfied to confine their sexploits to my boyish hands, and yet they demanded fidelity of me. These relationships drove me crazy. By the time I was 22 I was burned out on jealousy and I decided to put an end to cheating by changing the rules. I would no longer commit myself to relationships that had, at their core, rejected sexuality by equating sexual freedom with infidelity. I chose to believe it possible to be true and honest at the same time. In my heart I became a polyamorist.
Within a year I was in an open marriage, and stayed that way for eleven years. During the marriage we both had many different lovers. We were young and adventurous. I was in a traveling rock and roll band and she was exploring sexually revolutionary Olympia, Washington in the wake of the riot-grrrl explosion of the 1990's. Our alternative marriage blueprint, designed mostly by me, seemed genius at the time. She wanted to know everything about my sexual exploits and I wanted to know nothing of hers. It seemed fair, and it was blissful ignorance for a decade, but she had to hide so much of herself that when she eventually left me it must have been a huge relief for her to be able to not have to pretend to be my good wife and soulmate some of the time and herself the rest of the time.
In the year before the marriage ended, while I was living in LA with Andy Dick and Andy Shmushkin, I was engaged in a love affair with an amazing woman. A singer in a cool pop band and the editor of a popular porn magazine. A very smart and sexy woman about 8 years older than me, who would never call herself a sexual revolutionary, but she is one. During our seasons as a couple she would brazenly tell me about the other men that she was having sex with. I remember how once she had sex with some guy at her birthday party and then came to bed with me, and told me about it the next morning over coffee. I could have felt jealous, or repulsed, but I didn't. Her total lack of guilt about it gave my jealousy no traction. She didn't owe me any sexual shame; I was married and she was enjoying me and fucking other people too. Her sexual freedom had the effect of setting me free in a new way. I try and remember that sensation when jealousy grabs for me now, and believe me, it does.
Polyamory is like advanced physics but most people approach it with a kindergarten mentality. It requires a constant and subtle balance of opposing impulses. I still think the perfect open relationship is probably mostly monogamous. I mean, who has the energy to really satisfy one woman, let alone many? Mark Twain once wrote something about how men are like candles and women like candlesticks. A candlestick can accommodate an infinite number of candles while the candles burn but once. Twain was on to something. Of course, the possibility of endless sexual adventures is fun to entertain, but my vision of a sustainable open relationship has less to do with the amount of freedom I am afforded than it does with how much freedom I can support and even celebrate my partner experiencing. What the Tantrists might call "holding space for another's embodied enlightenment."
I've been in my current relationship for about three years. My partner is a sex and intimacy coach who works mostly with men. Her practice includes touch as well as counseling. Her work falls somewhere between that of a therapist, a masseuse, a spiritual guide and a classic courtesan. For some reason this doesn't bother me. She is smart and safe about it and the work is revolutionary. It inspires me. I see the art in it. The men she helps are men like me, only with more money to spend on spiritual health and orgasmic integration, i.e. holy handjobs.
Conversely, since we've been together she has had several other lovers, as opposed to clients, and each of these relationships, dalliances or interludes has caused me some degree of emotional discomfort. That's an understatement. At times it has seemed almost unbearable. She generally goes for older, more powerful, wealthier, and/or stronger men than me, which definitely flips my switch. I get insecure. I get crazy. Even for someone who has been practicing polyamory for almost 15 years, these challenges to my sexual turf have been incredibly difficult. And yet, my lover's cool determination and commitment to sexual healing, globally and between the two of us, has inspired me to become more conscious, more present and more energetically sensitive. I have to get enlightened just to keep up with her, and interestingly, one of the most rewarding aspects of this relationship has been having to meet and find honor with the men she has chosen to share herself with.
When I meet a man who I am going to be sharing my lover with my goal is to establish honor. I try and learn what his honor is and inspire him to learn my honor. When we understand each other we can actually look out for each other when she starts to drift, as she is prone to do on occasion, toward lunacy. So we establish honor by learning each other's codes of conduct. Then we can communicate. Honor is a slippery fish until you get what it is for the other person, then it makes all the sense in the world. For one guy, borrowing his car to run an errand and not returning it for the entire weekend wouldn't be a big deal. To another man, just changing the settings on the passenger seat might be taking too much liberty. And that's just talking about cars. Our territorial relationship to woman is obviously more complex and deeply rooted. The fight or flight impulse is strong when meeting an intimate that you did not choose. And yet, I have found that when the discussion turns to honor something rather miraculous happens; otherwise frightened or belligerent men start speaking like knights.
I usually have at least as much – or more – to share with the man that the woman who loves me chooses as a lover than they have to share with each other. Passion is fleeting, after all, but fellowship, and hard-earned fellowship at that, is a much rarer thing. It is possible that the women we love, when given the freedom to do what they naturally do, which is to love freely, will be like dousing rods, unearthing brothers we have lost and would never meet any other way.
This is no easy path. It requires real sensitivity to one's own limbic and nervous system as well as to the limbic and nervous systems of people with whom we might not have chosen to establish intimacy with. It doesn't work to suffer poor communication or disrespectful behavior, nor does it work to allow the perception of slights and insults to rule our actions. It also doesn't work to play "cool" and pretend detachment when your emotions are otherwise. You must have as much honor toward your own authentic self as you would to another person.
Practicing conscious polyamory is a profound balancing act. It takes all of our masculine faculties of reason and commitment, as well as the more feminine strengths of feeling, flexibility, and patience. It requires a commitment to direct communication between all the partners involved, even when the natural instinct is to flinch away. It's what Walt Whitman was talking about in "One's-self I Sing":
One's-self I sing - a simple, separate Person;
Yet utter the word Democratic, the word En-masse.
Of Physiology from top to toe I sing;
Not physiognomy alone, nor brain alone, is worthy for the muse - I say the Form complete is worthier far;
The Female equally with the male I sing.
Of Life immense in passion, pulse, and power,
Cheerful - for freest action form'd, under the laws divine,
The Modern Man I sing.
And if that's not inspiring enough for you, consider this: When you can fully face your woman's desire for another, then when it's your turn to take a lover, you won't have to feel so goddamned guilty and ashamed - no matter how luscious the lover you choose might be. But be forewarned: In the long run the lover you choose might have as much or more to share with your beloved than either has to share with you.
Image by flauberto, used under a Creative Commons license.
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- 7-12-07
- Andras Jones's blog
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brotherhood
It is possible that the women we love, when given the freedom to do what they naturally do, which is to love freely, will be like dousing rods, unearthing brothers we have lost and would never meet any other way.
I liked your thoughts about honor, Andras, and through my experiences with polyamory have also thought about the wider possibilities of romantic love bringing men and men (as well as women and women) together in a powerful way that would be otherwise impossible given a monogamous, hetero society. I am closer at present to my ex-wife's lover than I am to her, and while I was the one who introduced them, I would never have developed the important fraternal bond without the romantic relationship that brought him intimately close to me.
Polyamory: wonderful social divining rod, but as I write in an essay to be seen on this site soon, also a emotional lightning rod! Thanks for your piece.
the great experiment?
In "2012" I talked about the nature of experiments - that the first generation of experiments generally fail - the scientist blows up his lab or the democracy collapses back into tyranny or whatever - but over several iterations, something new can come into being. The question is still open about polyamory - whether there is the real opportunity to segue into a new way of being around relationships and sexuality, or whether our conditioning is not just social but, ultimately, biologically programmed.
Perhaps I am an idealist, but I still believe that the purpose of the human animal is to self-overcome all biological programming to attain the "supra-mental" condition that Aurobindo talks about, and other thinkers discuss in different articulations. For me, the positive liberation of human sexuality as a spiritual discipline may be a necessary step if we want to save our species from imminent extinction. Hence this is a very serious subject.
I am very interested in Wilhelm Reich's proposition that "Sexually awakened women, affirmed and recognized as such, would mean the complete collapse of the patriarchy." (Now we might add "Sexually and spiritually awakened..."). This requires men having the self-mastery and internal discipline to let the goddess come into manifestation on the physical plane, by creating a much more spacious environment for women to express and manifest their erotic selves. (Jewish Kabalists talk about this as the return of the Shekinah). If this were to take place, I see the possibility of going from our curent scarcity model, which leads to jealousy and possessiveness and bitterness and endless Hollywood dramas, to one where people might have so much intimacy, sensuality, and erotic abundance in their lives that there would be no need for protecting one's psycho-sexual turf - it would make no sense whatsoever.
This would require a shift away from intensive attachment in love relationships - and giving up the deeply held sense that there is one other person who is necessary somehow to complete you and make you whole. I think that Osho was correct when he noted that love begins with loving and accepting one's self - that when we embody love, we naturally attract lovers to us.
Ultimately, it is up to women to step forward into a more spacious and conscious liberation of sexuality. But they can only even conceive of making such a shift if they are supported in it by men. We need a lot more open conversation around this subjec, a lot more consciousness brought into all aspects of our intimate lives.
Of course there is also the hormonal aspects - erotic fixation appears to be a biochemical state that lasts for several years at the beginning of an intense relationship, then usually tapers off.
If we can make a shift to other models of relationship, then we might be able to do away with the current model of long or medium-length marriages leading to divorce. If the satisfaction of sexual desires outside of the constraints of monogamous bonds is accepted as positive and natural, then couples would generally have no need to get divorced - their relationship will simply flow into other forms, and find new life and vitality as it changes.
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
Well....
tsk, tsk
but, lol!!
btw, does anyone feel me on not liking the word "promiscuous?" Firstly, I've almost never heard it applied to a man. Double standard, much?
Secondly, it has an unmistakable connotation of "indiscriminate," even if some people are trying to rehabilitate and/or reclaim the world to mean something else. Just because I give myself guilt-free permission to fuck who I want does not mean that I am indiscriminate in my choice.
:)
Thanks!
Your article struck quite a note with me; it took me a little while to gather the courage, in fact.
After getting out of a four-year relationship, I became entangled with a wayward (some may describe him as skirt-chasing...) poet. While it may have seemed strange to some people, I found it liberating. I had always noticed within myself a desire to express appreciation and love for many people in a sexual way. In my new situation, I decided to go about doing so. Besides, on a more superficial level, it was a useful tool for maintaining the interest of the man I was attracted to. It did not take too long, however, for me to accumulate guilt over the jealousies and perceived pain I had caused other people. I became discontent and felt hopeless, that my lot in life was merely to hurt all I touched. I was confused by the romantic jungle, and when I finally committed to a monogamous relationship a year later, it was full of psychological and physical power struggles.
Now that I find myself in a new and deeply fulfilling relationship, the question of polyamory has confronted me again. Sex is an activity I enjoy, but I feel like I never receive the full benefit. My desire to unleash it can be overwhelming at times. What does it require? Should I explore other partners or continue working within? I ask myself often. Either way, my love knows no bounds. How it unfolds is still an adventure.
Thank you for this article. It made me feel a new hope for discovering and manifesting my own sexual prowess, as well as the idea that there are people who understand.
Namaste. --EB--
Amorousness...
Interesting take
I was involved in a polyamorous relationship for a few years -- one that was, as I look back on it, fairly complex even for polyamory. The five of us were comprised of a married couple in one state, a lesbian couple in another, and me in yet another. I was partnered solely with one member of the married couple. (This combination of spider-like connection and distance led to plenty of strangeness, including me meeting my partner's lover's lesbian partner before my partner did.)
I entered into that relationship feeling that it couldn't be that hard. Nothing will cure one of thinking polyamory is easy faster than actually being in a polyamorous relationship. The jealousy, time issues, emotional woes and sexual quirks of all involved (myself included) astounded me. Successful polyamory seems to require a tremendous amount of honesty, both with the self and others, and knowing yourself extremely well is an absolute prerequisite.
At this point, I consider myself something that doesn't have a label -- I don't desire one partner at a time, nor do I desire many partners at a time. I desire partners who fit, in whatever number they arrive. I wonder how many are in the same boat -- it's so hard to gauge when we don't have a label for something.
As you can tell by my long and rambling comment, this was a thought-provoking article! Thank you for it.
It is very interesting that
It is very interesting that you say "The jealousy, time issues, emotional woes and sexual quirks of all involved (myself included) astounded me."
That is exactly why I am no longer involved in polyamorous relationships (excepting sexual quirks ;)). So much time and energy, I felt, could have been better spent on other life things, such as creative endeavors. I feel that if I had, for example, worked on a painting with them instead of incessant lusting, I would have gotten more out of it.
A quote from the story I referenced:
"Emlen described a great difference between "social monogamy," where mating pairs work together to raise their young, and "genetic monogamy," where parents are faithful sex partners."
I would agree there is a great difference! And most of us are taught to think they are one in the same. There is much to share and inevitably gain in social monogamy. But we have access such a large gene pool, especially in our 'Melting Pot' that genetic monogamy only seems to serve the purpose of fathers bonding with their children because the children are "their own blood," or a distictly genetic part of them. I know this fact has been very important in my husband bonding with our son - when he looks into his eyes, he sees himself.
Aw dang I'm getting long and rambly as well ;) Great article!
"The only thing constant in life is change" -François de la Rochefoucauld
Clarification
I certainly didn't interpret
I certainly didn't interpret your comment as anti-anything. I've read your story and coments about Spiritual BDSM, and as such I had an idea of what it meant/means to you.
I feel horrible that you interpreted my own response as negative.
There are many different kinds of life experiences that essentially offer the same scale - either rising up or pulling back. Same with facing one's issues in order to reach the next conciousness - and all that I wanted to convey was there are a myriad of life experiences that offer the same type of alteration. Also that I rather enjoy them in comparison.
"The only thing constant in life is change" -François de la Rochefoucauld
Just how many species mate for life?
"The only thing constant in life is change" -François de la Rochefoucauld
Gratitude
I have been in non-monogamous relationships for the past five years. As a woman, it has been a very interesting experience - to first discover what kinds of relationships support me, and then to deal with the day-to-day emotions that come with any relationship, let alone having multiple intimate relationships.
It has been a constant challenge to find lovers who are supportive of me and how I structure my relationships. The idea that almost all men are willing to have sex with any woman they can convince, corral or seduce is a horrible misconception. Most often, it is difficult to find a male lover who is willing to commit to a relationship that is not sexually exclusive. And of the ones who do, I've only found a couple who do so willingly and honestly. The others either don't want to know that I have other lovers, or resent me later when the relationship isn't what they want.
In any case, what I really want to say is this: I rarely hear men express themselves so honestly and with such maturity about this issue as you did in this article. Two things you said really touched me. "It is possible that the women we love, when given the freedom to do what they naturally do, which is to love freely, will be like dousing rods, unearthing brothers we have lost and would never meet any other way." - you can only imagine how ... relieving it is to be honored this way.
I finally have the experience of loving two very amazing men, who honor each other and support my relationship with the other. I love the freedom to simply love them, without trying to manage the feelings and emotions that arise out of jealousy and fear.
And for you to look at your lover's loves as an opportunity for honoring and fellowship...what words could I use that could express my gratitude?
May you continue to experience all the love and freedom you wish. May others be inspired and emboldened by your courageous expression.
Namaste, M
polyamory
I was involved in a polyamorous relationship for almost eight years. There were times when it worked, but when it didn't it could be horrifying.
I am wary of this idea after what I went through. Now I feel it is important for both men and women to associate freely, develop intimacy, and form close friendships with people they are attracted to aside from their significant other. Having someone else to confide in is essential to a healthy relationship, in my opinion.
Sex is risky, though. We do things in bed that we would not do otherwise. Sex impairs judgment. Go in with the best of intentions, but what happens when you're there is anybody's guess.
If I ever got involved in such a relationship again, I would need a lot of time to get to know the lovers that my lover has chosen for herself. We would all have to be able to spend time together comfortably.
I don't know if I could handle it anymore. I mean, how do you know how faithful your lover is in a monogamous relationship? It's noble of you to grow from your tortures, but can't a woman just introduce me to a brother without going to bed with him?
Now, when women enter my life I face my sexual desire up front, then wait to see what else we have in common. I really have to make an effort to be practical.
It feels like there is a higher purpose I easily confuse with lust. Many times I have ruined the deeper meaning in a relationship with a woman by having sex.
For a time I used to feel that I just wasn't doing it right, but now I'm inclined to believe that polyamory is just a bad idea, at least for me.
I used to call it Socratic, as opposed to Platonic, friendships to emphasize the importance of intellectual engagement and emotional availability. I didn't want to share my bodily fluids unless I could also share my thoughts and feelings.
At another time, I referred to it as anonygamy, because I felt a deep and lasting committment to each of my own partners and also those of my lover. But people fucking gossip and get competitive.
We all took liberties we shouldn't have and it was all just so much trouble. If I ever have a sexual partner again, I don't think I'm going to want to push it. Not that women are any more difficult to please than men. Surely, Mr. Twain was ever so slightly off the mark.
The quotation you alluded to is from a piece called "Letters from the Earth." This is full of the most bitter drafts of wry wit our dear Samuel Clemens had in his most prized casks of aged spirits.
It begins with a creation scenario. God flings galaxies from his throne as the archangels Michael, Raphael, and Lucifer watch at his feet. Lucifer fucks up somehow and gets banished. This time, he decides to go to Earth. While he is there he records numerous satirical observations of the good lord's work.
I just think we have something better to share with each other than sex. Sex is a sacrament to me, but it is only good in a very limited context. I tried with all my might to make it work, but polyamory was a disaster for me.
I think we are so desperate for sex and more sex because we have no meaninful sense of belonging in our communities. Nowadays, I'm just trying to say hello to my neighbors and stop to talk for a while. I think our need for emotional support and togetherness are horribly undernourished.
I don't need any more than one sex partner. In fact, sex really isn't necessary. I don't see any evidence that celibate people are any more insane than sexually active people.
I know I used the idea of sacred sex as an excuse for self-indulgence. I had good intentions, but my base desires got the best of me.
If I'm ever with a woman again, I hope she has good conversations with other men and makes good friends with them so that she has another male point of view to help her through my madness. I'm going to need other women for the same reason.
We'll need people who honor our union, however, or else it just won't work. Sex tends to make people possessive and competitive. Maybe there are some people out there who are sort of emotionally double-jointed, but I don't think I'm one of them.
I don't know if it really matters whether other animals mate for life. Many times in the past, human beings cheated on each other. This really isn't anything new. Some people of older generations try to make it seem like it, but that's just a lie.
In the past, divorce was less common because women were denied opportunities to support themselves financially. It had nothing to do with our moral fibre.
I think people should have less sex and more friendship. I know if I'm ever in another romantic relationship, we'll both need a community of friends to keep us healthy. A lot of times sex leads a couple to isolate.
I think that obsessive tunnel vision would be necessary if you wish to have children. People really do need to be completely absorbed in one another if they are bringing new life into the world.
I had sex before I was ready in a relationship with a faulty foundation. I have emotional problems that need to be addressed before I get anywhere near that. Polyamory wasn't all bad for me, but I'd take it back if I could.
I think we need to have a better way to connect with a larger support system of human relationships. Saying we need more sex is like saying we need more chocolate. I think we need more whole grains and fresh vegetables.
So when did sex become part of enlightenment?
Firstly can I say, before my rant, I agree with your thoughts Jack.
I find it interesting that Polyamoury has been seemingly included in the quest for a more spiritually enlightened world. I suppose its important that all reasonable life choices are not vilified, are excepted as normal. That said how this relates to a more spiritually enlightened state I can't quite see.
I think that thoses involved perhaps 'doth protest to much' as though its more of a learning curve than other choices or life experiences, perhaps thats just how I am reading it mind you. The majority of the most realised people I have met, or heard of, came to that state through the usual mix of illness, loss, disapointments and indeed relationship failiars followed by a bre of personal self development practices, meditation and bursts of spontaneous cosmic insight etc.
It may be crass to say, but shagging loads of people and learning to cope with jealousy (or not cope by the sounds of it thus far) is unlikely to cut it (in my own honest opinion), God knows I have tried that path to happiness. Even if there is more of a connection than simply sex I dont see this as a vital learning experience of the road to clarity, further explanation requied for me I think.
Different forms of relationships, including polyamoury, are found around the worlds cultures, and all have equal value (even brothers sharing wives occurs in parts of Asia). But I would say (my bias coming from being a Buddhist perhaps) that all sexual relationships are the heaviest chains by which we tie ourselves to base existence.
Most paths, magical or spiritual, recommend or insist on celibacy. Thats not as some harsh form of torture, its actually because they have found it promotes both happiness and spiritual insight. [unless your a Catholic priest in which case it seems it promotes child molestation]
Did you know that celibate Buddhist monks are actually happier than other people, this is not conjecture or bias. Medical tests have conclusively shown that areas of the brain considered related to feelings of well being and contentment are far more stimulated and consistantly active than in the normal population. facts like this are important to consider.
The Buddhist (we don't have a monopoly on them, feel free to steal them!) practices of sympathetic joy and compassion, are in my view the far more rewarding positive alternatives to either monogamous, polygamou or polyamourous sexual relationships. Giving unconditional love, concern, and help, also genuinely enjoying others happiness, is a positive and viable higher form of relationship. Certainly than most of the relationships we tend to gravitate toward it often seems.
That said, just stating, "I am going to be celibate and more compassionate", is rather pie in the sky. To really 'upgrade' the way you relate, your going to need a dedicated spiritual practice program and lashings and lashings of meditation.
"Become a detective of existence" - Prem Wat
interesting
I'd be interested to see a source for this study of Buddhist monks you cite. I don't see offhand how the study could have been structured to lead to the result you mention, but maybe I'm wrong.
I'd also be interested for some scientific source for the woman who claimed to counsel 70,000 plus people. It's always been my understanding that literature on open relationships was lacking, I'd love to read a journal article that supports your contention that open marriages only last five years.
A few questions I have: if this is true, then how does the length of the average open marriage compare to the length of the average "monogamous" marriage? How many of those 'Monogamous" marriages ended because of cheating? Also, should the marriage be judged a failure just because it doesn't last? I've been to several marriages whose vows didn't include promises of forever or fidelity. If a marriage like that ends, then how is it a failure?
Sex and Consciousness
I've written an article on that subject. What follows are some excerpts. Caution! Contains some channeled material! For the full version please go to http://people.tribe.net/aquamantar/blog/7933b83d-da6a-4c62-8486-2e64e9da...
[...]
Sex as presented in our society is the best example for the fact that whatever is being repressed comes out neurotic and distorted. And it has been going on for thousands of years. This has also nothing to do with Monogamy versus Polyamory. It's neither. It's not about labeling anything, but simply about understanding sexual energy as it is. People judge too often something they don't really know about. Monogamy works only for so long as there is compatibility and unconditional love without trying to "own" the other person, understanding the deeper meaning of relationship, which is never static but based on co-creation. Polyamory people don't realize that they will never be able to achieve true sexual depth by having many partners. Most of it is superficial attraction through the lower three chakras (resulting in endless appetite for that kind of sex) with an unconscious fear of intimacy and going deeper as the heart chakra (center of emotions) is suppressed. In fact, it is impossible to be with many partners at the same time if the heart is truly activated. Many higher density beings talk about this sexual energy exchange through channeled messages as well. The Pleiadians (6th Density beings), channeled through Barbara Marciniak:
"When you have many partners, you tend to be less than honest and to hide who you are: you share a little here, there, and everywhere scattering your seed. It is best to be with one person. But this does not mean the same person forever. Be loyal, be open, and be sharing with the person you are working with, and go as far as you can with them. If it happens to be your whole life, wonderful. If it doesn't, then when you feel you come to a place where you are no longer communicating and serving one another, and you feel the relationship is not going to be able to make a leap, terminate the relationship and find another person who works with your vibration."
or the channeled material of Lama Sing:
"Any individual who engages in sexual activities simply for the physical pleasure and without intent to further a relationship of mutuality and commitment is using the sexual energy for self-aggrandizement. There will be the lessening of the spiritual energies and will require great effort to rebalance these. The thought form which is created by these activities is not in harmony with the light. There is a depletion of the energies from the individual who is involved with multiple partners."
Part of this distortion is the suppression of the Feminine and this is is actullay also one of the groundstones for the Matrix we’re caught in. Well, the amusing (or maybe sad) part of this is that most people don’t even realize that they live in a prison….and so many of them defend and justify this self-constructed prison with all they got. The suppression of Sexuality is part of it, as the Matrix is designed to keep us in the lower three chakras of existence based on ego, lust, control, greed, competition, violence, selfishness and the endless pursuit of material riches. However, the ego is a bottomless hole and will never be satisfied. This doesn't mean that the lower three chakras are evil and should be ignored. No, it is about Balance, Integration and Evolution to the point where all chakras are active and balanced, each of them equally. We need the first three chakras to be grounded in this 3D reality but in a healthy way. It's just when the overall focus is on those three, the distortion kicks in and you can see the result by looking at the world of superficiality we live in. The Heart chakra is the center, the gate to reach the upper three chakras of spiritual insight, bliss and infinite intelligence by being connected to the Higher Self , our true self. The only way is through the heart and interestingly the earth, this planet, vibrates on the same frequency as our heart chakra. (Geee, there is a hint! ) The ego is the illusion. It's merely a tool to be used to navigate in this reality. If people mistake this tool for their real self trouble sets in and the game of separation is on and that is what most people experience on planet earth. The task is to remember who we really are.
The nature of the Orgasm and what it entails, the power it has, is completely disregarded in our modern society. Sex has become a competition about endurance, penis and breast sizes. It is more about fucking than making love. However, lust is limited, it keeps people in a loop of never ending appetite. Love is infinite, it goes beyond ego gratification and opens up the doorway to our true essence. Sex without love runs only on the first three chakras. An Orgasm on that level is purely genitile. Nothing wrong with that. To each his own. This is not to say that Lust is bad or evil, like religion tries to tell us. No, it's great and it can be fun to dive into the animalistic nature of man, It's just such a limitited view of Sex. Simple as that, it cannot expand. Most people operate on that level. Rarely do two people experience an orgasm where both are connected through their heart chakra, as the energy shoots through all chakras upward, through the throat, third eye and crown chakra, resulting in Expanded Consciousness, accessing other worlds through this powerful force, the Cosmic Orgasm. Most of our sexual energy lies dormant, coiled up in the pelvis region, like a Serpant, the Kundalini, waiting to awake and find its way upward. This energy can be used for Spiritual Growth and Healing.
[...]
From "Bringers of the Dawn", Chapter: "Sexuality A Bridge to Higher Levels of Consciousness"
"When the library of yourselves was torn from the shelves and scattered, and the DNA was split so that there were only two strands left with very little data and very little memory, sexuality was left intact in the physical body. It was left as a form of reproduction, of course as a form for the species to stay in touch with its own essence and bring itself into life. Very deep inside the mechanism of sexuality is a frequency that can be attained that has been sought after and misunderstood by many people. It is called orgasm.
The orgasm has been distorted from its original purpose. Your body has forgotten the cosmic orgasm of which it is capable because society has taught you for thousands and thousands of years that sexuality is bad. You have been taught this in order for you to be controlled and to keep you from seeking the freedom available through sexuality. Sexuality connects you with a frequency of ecstasy, which connects you back to your divine source and to information.
The sexual parts of the body are avenues to pleasure that create frequencies that heal and stimulate the body and potentially lead it to its higher spiritual self. Sexuality is so misunderstood on this planet that,, when it is exchanged between two persons, very seldom is there an intent to connect spirituality with it. Sexuality invokes a spirituality that is free and that looks at itself as a creator. However, very seldom is sexuality used as a bridge to take you to higher levels of consciousness.
When you have many partners, you tend to be less than honest and to hide who you are: you share a little here, there, and everywhere scattering your seed. It is best to be with one person. But this does not mean the same person forever. Be loyal, be open, and be sharing with the person you are working with, and go as far as you can with them. If it happens to be your whole life, wonderful. If it doesn't, then when you feel you come to a place where you are no longer communicating and serving one another, and you feel the relationship is not going to be able to make a leap, terminate the relationship and find another person who works with your vibration.
Within the sexual frequency, you exchange with one another. So if you are bonding yourself and chemically exchanging with a person who is not of your likeness, you are taking on their garbage because you are exchanging energy quite intimately. Even if you don't want to be with this person, the sexual experience stays with you because you have had an electromagnetic exchange.
Understand that, on this planet, sexuality has always been the body's link to its higher frequencies. Sexual vibration has been your link with your cosmic identity, but this whole concept has been completely lost and misunderstood. There were those who did not want you to be in tune with these frequencies because the sexual frequencies could have taken you to areas of liberation where you would have begun to figure things out.
Things have been manipulated and given a boundary of limitation so that the truth of sexuality has been kept from you. You have been told that you can procreate with it and have orgasms, but you have not been told that you can open frequencies with it."
more here: http://people.tribe.net/aquamantar/blog/7933b83d-da6a-4c62-8486-2e64e9da7633
"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making teh darkness cosncious." - Carl Gustav Jung
thoughts on your post
Hi Bernhard,
Thanks for your thoughts here.
I have a few hopefully brief comments. First of all, I would be cautious about utilizing channelled material as some kind of source of higher wisdom. We don't know enough about what actually happens during channelling, but certainly the individual character of the channel and their psychological constraints act as mediating influences on whatever information is actually received or transduced. I see channelling as more like a creative process of trance-induced cosmological expression, and can enjoy the performance without necessarily imparting any truth content to it.
Secondly, when you write, "Polyamory people don't realize that they will never be able to achieve true sexual depth by having many partners," I think you might want to interrogate how you know what is not only true for you, but for everyone else, as well. With this type of statement, I generally suspect a mechanism of projection, often covering up an inner insecurity. It would be certainly okay to say that polyamory doesn't work for you because you could not attain the same level of (sexual or emotional?) depth, and that in your experience you haven't seen it succeed for others as well. But to state it in this categorical way is very dangerous, in my opinion, as it forecloses on other people's inner experience, which is their truth, and not necessarily yours.
"Will the transformation."-Rilke
Hi Daniel!Thanks for your
Thanks for your comments.I'm very aware of the issues with channeled material.However, having studied this kind of material for quite a while and being able to look at the different kinds of channelings, meaning there are different "levels" of channeling, I wouldn't put all channeled material into one box.Sure, the "filter" of the one channeling has to be considered and some are better to bypass that filter than others. I found in particular the channelings of Barbara Marciniak ("Pleiadian soul group)", The Ra Material and the Cassiopae material to be in a league on their own when it comes to channeling. All of them not claiming to be any aliens or other entities outside ourselves, but being "us in the future", which is quite an intruiging statement.Not one source contains 100% truth and maybe 30% is filtered through, however, there are interesting similarities in those chaneled sources, in particular when it comes to the use of sexual energy.So I certianly think that by careful examination of such material, one can certainly find bits of truth here and there. Not all channeled material can be trusted either. There is a lot of bogus/disinfo happening in new age channelings. I certainly don't believe something just because it has been "channeled".I posted a topic on the 2012tribe about that.
In regards to my statement about Polyamory, yes I am projecting some of my experiences with it into it and made my own conclusions from it. I can't deny it.However, I also have been trying to look at it more objectively, as much as one can, and it really seems that Polyamory folks (obviously I can only talk about the ones I had contact with) are mostly operate from the lower three centers or chakras and sexually it comes down more to lust as being connected on thosse chakras rather having a conenction with the higher centers and being able to move that energy upward.Now this might sound very generalized and probably is, but I'm trying to look at it all from a different angel.My intent was to look at this issue strictly from an energetic point of view without trying to judge anything as bad or good, but just seeing as it is.
Personally I'm neither for or against Polyamory or Monagomy. It's not either or , as I also said in my article. I think before anyone can make a "choice" like that, one needs to be aware of what is happening on a deeper non-physical level when it comes to sexual exhange. That was my intent with this article.
I think we still don't really understand the depth of sexuality and sexual intercourse.For me personally, having sex with someone is quite an intense experience which usually puts me in an altered state of consciousness, even having DMT-like visuals at the onset of orgasm. I also had sexual encounters where I literally felt depleted afterwards, as if my life force has been sucked out of me and there are times where sexual encounters have been re-charging, mind expanding and very healing. Most of it had to do of how well I was connected to my partner.
Being a body and energyworker I tend to see sex differently.I approach sex like going on a psychedelic joureny. It's all about intent, set and setting and making use of the energy that is being created.
I also can say that sex that runs only on the lower centers doesn't even come close to what is possible when all centers are engaged and connected.But obviously, that is my subjective experience but it seems to be confirmed by these channeled sources I mentioned above.
In no way, can I say what works for other people and what doesn't and I didn't mean to come across like that.<br><br>
So I think the issue of Polyamory is very much a question of the use/abuse of our sexual energy/centers and by more exploring our own sexuality and understanding the non-physical mechanism behind it, we can get a better grip on this topic.
I can very much relate to this follwing channeled transcipt of one of the Ra sessions:
BLOCKAGES OF SEXUAL ENERGY TRANSFER
A. THE ROOT CAUSE OF BLOCKS
QUESTION: Before the veiling (SEPARATION BETWEEN CONSCIOUS / SUBCONSCIOUS MIND, BODY AND SPIRIT) sexual energy transfer was always possible, but it is not always possible after the veiling. What is the primary source of the blockages?
RA: In the 3rd density (human existence), entities are attempting to learn the ways of love. If it is impossible to not see that all are one being, it becomes much more difficult for the undisciplined personality to choose one mate and, thereby, initiate itself into a program of service. It is much more likely that the sexual energy will be dissipated more randomly. The root cause of blockage is the lack of the ability to see the other-self as the Creator, or to phrase it differently, the lack of love. (B4, 110)
B. TYPES OF BLOCKS
QUESTION: Can you speak on the various types of blockages that occur in our sexual reproductive complex?
1. RED RAY (first chakra):
RA: The first energy transfer is red ray and has to do only with your reproductive system.
2. YELLOW (second chakra) AND ORANGE RAY (third chakra):
RA: In the orange-ray-attempts and yellow-ray attempts to have sexual intercourse, a blockage will be created if only one entity vibrates in this area and that entity will have a never ending appetite for this activity. What these vibratory levels are seeking is green ray activity. (B2, 30-31)
RA: There is the possibility of orange or yellow ray energy transfer but this will be negatively polarized with one being seen as object rather than other-self and the other seeing itself as plunderer or master of the situation. (B2, 30-31)
3. GREEN RAY (fourth chakra):
RA: In green ray there are two possibilities, Firstly, if both vibrate in green ray, there will be a mutually strengthening energy transfer. The female draws the energy from the roots of the being-ness through the energy centers. The male finds in its energy transfer an inspiration which satisfies and feeds the spirit portion of the mind/body/spirit complex. This energy transfer will be blocked only if one or both entities have fear of possession or of being possessed, of desiring possession or desiring being possessed. (B2, 30-31)
RA: The other green ray possibility is when only one of the two entities offers green ray energy, the other not offering universal love energy. This results in a blockage of the one not offering the green ray energy and increases frustration or appetite. (B2, 30-3l)
4. BLUE RAY (fith chakra):
RA: The blue ray energy transfer is somewhat rare among your peoples at this time but is of great aid due to energy transfers involved in becoming able to express without reservation or any fear whatsoever.
5. INDIGO RAY (Third Eye):
RA: The indigo ray transfer is extremely rare among your peoples. This is the sacramental portion of the body complex whereby contact may be made through violet ray with intelligent infinity.
SHARING SEXUAL ENERGIES
A. TRANSFER THROUGH THE RAYS CAN OCCUR ONCE GREEN RAY IS REACHED
RA: Once green-ray energy transfer has been achieved by two mind/body/spirits (humans) in mating, the further rays are available without both entities having the necessity to progress equally. Thus a blue ray vibrating entity or indigo ray vibrating entity with the green ray other-self can serve as catalyst for the learn/teaching of the other-self until the other-self teaches green ray. such energy transfer through the rays is not possible. (B2, 40)
RA: Sexual energy transfer takes place upon a non-magical level by all those entities which vibrate green-ray active, it is possible, in the case of a being who dedicates itself to the service of the One Infinite Creator, to refine this energy transfer. When the other self also dedicates itself in service to the One Infinite Creator, the transfer is doubled. There are refinements from this point onward leading to the realm of high sexual magick. (B3, 176)
RA: The great key to blue, indigo. and. finally, that great capitol of the column of sexual energy transfer, violet energy transfers, is the metaphysical bond or distortion which has the name among your peoples of unconditional lov
"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making teh darkness cosncious." Carl Gustav Jung
Polyamory+BDSM
Andras, My partner and I have reflected almost to the point, the same issues and difficulties that go along with an open relationship. The parallels are pretty interesting as well. My partner and I have been together for fifteen years, have two daughters ages 6 and 10, and we have been open and out about it for several years. The jealousy, need to control, fear of loss of control, and insecurity,or that your place as the "Primary" may go to one better suited to your partners needs should all have to be felt and honestly lived. This means that you have the same issues of an monogamous relationship, only now there MUST be honesty about insecurities, and the ability to discuss personal issues that can make you feel week, or that you are not cut out for this much drama, etc. BDSM- When my partner expressed the need to have relationships based on a DS format; I had some pretty extreme issues at first. Of course I "acted" like I was strong enough to handle it, and hid my insecurities because it was very important for my partner to heal from being dumped and having her heart ripped out by a two year BDSM relationship that ended badly. I had many reservations about her revisiting this kind of relationship due to the one before it. And the idea of somebody having control of, and possibly satisfying my partner in ways I could never dream of made me very protective. Friends told me that we would end up a train wreck, that is until I asked her DOM to allow me to participate in a session. We had a magical and erotic evening, and we are now all best friends. My point being, that you have to let your partner be completely themselves, and when I did this, the worries ended. When you let those labels go. Primary, secondary, tertiary, poly, open, bi, gay, straight, and release you preset conditions to allow for change and growth, then there does come a time of emotional understanding and rest for the soul. It is clear that this kind of relationship is not for everybody, just like burning man, or many other mind openers. But the love that comes in return is nirvana, and the sexual energy that is brought back into the relationship is astounding. I agree with you too regarding the common feeling with most men that, 1- balance must be maintained, or, you have two other lovers plus me, do I not fulfill all your needs? And of course the answer is no. No two people can do that, man or woman, but it is hard to come to the understanding that all parties to an open relationship are on equal footing. If your partner, and mine for that matter, are ethical sluts who get more sex and connection that you or I do, it takes time to realize that women naturally have the energy to juggle more relationships than men precisely for the reasons you have given in this post. I currently know many sexually open people, and I simply do not have the time or the energy to handle more than one strong, beautiful, highly sexual partner right now, though my partner has yet to experience me in a close romantic relationship as I have many times with her, she wishes that I did have another love in my life. 2-Not all men or women want to be the primary: This is false on all fronts for me because love should be generated naturally in different ways for different combinations. All parties are equal in love, and everybody is as important as everyone else. 3-You are not week to show insecurity. If you voice your worries and obsessions, and your partner understands that mother culture has programmed men and woman in certain ways, then growth occurs naturally. Honesty and communication in every direction of the relationships is necessary for it not to implode or drive one or more crazy. My partner and I know we could never have a closed relationship now. We know too much about the benefits and the strength that it brings to our relationship and to ourselves. You will argue, spit accusations, get angry and pout, and then you will make up and be that much stronger and wiser.
Thank you for your post brother.
Spore,
I was a hidden treasure and desired to be known:
therefore I created the creation in order to be known.
-- Sufi creation myth
The new....
Masculinity, Femininity, individuality, lucid companionship, balance, canceling out, mislabeling, aucunes étiquettes.
Every moment is new now. Your reality is only a reflection of itself.
I was a hidden treasure and desired to be known:
therefore I created the creation in order to be known.
-- Sufi creation myth
questions
since when did torturing yourself become equated with spiritual enlightenment?
your assumptions on this question seem so unguided and unspecified. you may, as Daniel stated, be seeking the "supra-mental" state by going "beyond" your biological constraints, but i can't see your point in denying them altogether. why would you want to be in a relationship that caused you so much pain and suffering? it just seems, to put it mildly, a little unhealthy.
and since when do you give women "the freedom to do what they naturally do"? your statements here seem so massively sexist and debasing. exactly when were you granted the power to give freedom to a woman? oh right, when you became so overcome by fear of her that you convinced yourself that you might have a modicum of power over what she might "naturally do." its interesting also that you set the terms in your relationships.
and what are you talking about when you talk about honor? ...
obviously monogamy as it has been established in the last 50-100 years is a fallacy. surely you must realize that it never existed as advertised or in the way that you apparently react against. but your experiments just seem like an exercise in masochism and a deeply misguided effort to retain control of your sexual feelings and emotions, which are by definition dangerous and uncontrollable. and if you feel guilty about that luscious piece of ass that is your own damn business, certainly does not have anything to do with the mother you have chosen as your wife. viva Henry Miller and Anais Nin!
Back to basics
Insightful and I think a heartfelt article... (though I do agree somewhat with the following comment about how it seems like you're really into the masochism thing. But hey, whatever floats your boat, man.)
However it seems in a lot of the comments that there's a bit of a misconception about polyamory- the emphasis being, time and again, on sex. While it is true that an element of polyamory is multiple sexual partners, inasmuch as the different relationships in our lives can include a sexual dynamic, saying that polyamory is about multiple sexual partners is like saying that tantra is strictly about sexuality. It's a manner of expression, possibly a means, certainly not an end. If it is the end, you're talking about swinging. Which is fine- I'm actually not a huge fan of terms or categories of any kind, but they are useful so we can actually (hopefully) mean what we say, and communicate that thing both ways.
I won't go through the whole history of how I came into polyamory myself because it's a long convoluted story which I generally only tell over drinks, but I'd say in retrospect the bottom line is very simple- recognizing that life is short, every interaction & relationship we have is unique, and trying to let those relationships be what they are, at the same time keeping the feelings of people in other relationships in mind. The one big red flag is when I see one person I'm interacting with trying to "pull me away" from another, playing those kind of drama games. (I'm not talking about someone expressing a concern. I'm talking about secretive game-playing of the sort where someone says they're "down with the deal," but privately they're not and they're still operating under the possession paradigm.)
In other words- in my experience- polyamory is no easier or harder, at its root no better nor worse than any other relationship paradigm, though it does require more honesty than some. Which is to say, it's fucking hard, and complicated, amd beautiful, and tragic, and the best you can do is intend the light- even with that, sometimes people get hurt, sometimes you get hurt. Dust your knees off, learn the lessons you need to, and continue living.
End of the day, it's just life. Full of meaning, and yet without any whatsoever. I may fail in more ways than I realize, but I try to take things as they are and let them just be that.
http://joinmycult.blogspot.comThat's basically what I was trying to say.
Thanks for expanding on my points.
Two responses.
1. It's not about masochism at all. It is about being honest and open about my struggles and not allowing the fact of having struggles to push me off course for my vision, which is balance (and as much inspiration as I can handle.)
2. As for the "sexist" language. Is there any other kind? Our language is as steeped in sexism as am I, as is everyone I've ever met.
It is going to be impossible to write a column about men which doesn't strike some as sexist. This is because I am a sexist. Not by choice, but I'm a good student of justice and if I've learned anything at all about sexism it is that we are all soaked in it. Yes, you too.
The best we can do is to reject oppression, which I do. My language will sometimes be sexist and if it is, please suggest changes. Calling me a sexist is like calling me one hundred and sixty-five pounds. It is true and pointless.
I am having a blast reading all of these comments. Some are incredibly encouraging.
Presently Yours,
Andras Jones
www.myspace.com/radio8ball
the risk of sounding ridiculous
i remember when the aids crisis broke into the mainstream media. i was 21 and health advocates began promoting safe sex. my response was true to the 21 year old cynic and believer in mutual nuclear annihilation i was at the time [1981]:
"safe sex? when was sex ever safe?" i wasn't talking about std's. and i won't necessarily address polyamory here, either. i will, however, address the self at the center of all this... as a teen, i learned 2 things about sex. never kiss and tell. in my case, it was a matter of not adding to the frequent nonsense about my sexual prowess. more importantly, this constant sex-talk on the part of my male peers bored me. the more they talk about getting laid, the less they're getting laid. plus, i never understood all the congratulatory back-slapping when a guy got laid, often by a girl judged a slut for letting him get so close to her. this paradox not only prevents polyamory, it forces people to deny the fact that polyamory is here already. most people call it serial monogamy. talk about cynicism! in troy, new york, a female nurse is producing artificial hymens. raised filipina catholic, she knows well the urgency with which we all – secular and monotheist alike – pretend not to be veteran virgins each time we attract a new sex partner. her hymens should be as big of a hit in hollywood as in the hinterlands. as a young, aspiring artist/writer, i found girls easier to talk with about art and letters. as a result, i've had more close female friends than male. in most cases, i've been physically intimate with these friends. often, this happens once or twice after several months of companionship. arising out of a shared curiosity about the parameters of our closeness, it has never fostered any change in our relationship. having discussed previous sexual encounters with each other – as well as acknowledging others' certainty about the sex we don't engage in – these experiments most nearly resemble "playing doctor" in the way that they do not cut short a perfectly healthy association. because i am a male and my friend is a female, i repeatedly deny the intimacy. i don't have to answer questions about fucking my male friends – even those i run with on a near-daily basis. i know there are people who think i lie when i say "i have not had relations with that woman." of course, i will say "i have not had relations with that woman," even when i have. protecting our egos from the scourge of stereotype (man and woman enjoying each other's company must be fucking), i retreat into convenient dishonesty, tell a white lie. the white flag of surrender raises the cautionary red flag. hence, the jolly roger is my refuge. with no property, i can own no one, no thing. no one is a thing. one is simply one. sexual relations are relegated to the secret part of our not-so personal histories. this may have as much to do with the sacred (a remnant of ancient wisdom) as with the economic (our modern scarcity sickness). non-dualistically speaking, there is nothing personal. only the individual stands to gain; risks losing some thing. give, you have all there is. you have the will to choose one from the infinite or, to choose the infinite from one. or not... the self as object (as male, as female, as black, as white, etc.) survives defensively. disconnected, fearing loss, discovery, pain, death, we identify objects as the self. we speak of human nature, as if humans and nature exist as separate objects, as if human objects and natural objects are really real and objective differences. the self as object is directed by the weakness of the ego, driven as it is to the illusory safety of power. rarely is that power attained by the ego masquerading as objectified-self. often, the feeble ego seeks the shelter of whoever or whatever it believes has attained power, corrupt and rife with illusion as that power structure may be. the self as self, as connected, giving, confident partner of life, spreading health and wholeness in every moment learned to live, this self can shine and decipher the love of self in all. it is tantra, not as sex, but as life essence, joy. everything as light, harmonic, resonant, nameless, screaming silence. like real orgasm. i have shared many without having to ask "did you come?" it would be selfish to weep when an orgasm – or any moment – "seems less" than ecstasy. we can only call it less by recalling what it appears less than. thus, the totality of ecstasy remains. it may seem "only" a memory, but it is your memory of what you believe forgotten that tricks you in the comparison. fear of your friendships, loves, sex, honesty, the past, mistakes, regrets. that is fear of yourself. one partner or many, you will be disappointed in your fear. but you are not fear. your joy is your partner's, your brother's, your sister's, your student's, teacher's, compatriot's, friend's. we do not react to anything. we act in submission to ego or in love with the all the self learns is in all. this does not discount one's recognition of the kinetic forms of that to which we are harmonically bound. the universe wills only that we apply to the moment its abundance. when it seems to disappear in the heat of ecstatic sharing, judgments and stereotypes and bodies and architectures appear to disappear, melding as one. this is not about what society has done to us. it is about how we imagine a society into existence such that "it" does anything at all. we are this organism, there is no "it" or "them" to make this happen. when we say "it's raining" or "it's hot," we mean we rain, we heat. that's why coke adverts tell you "it's the real thing." it's true. you are the real thing. sex is not a part of life to compartmentalize, just as i am not a type of person to advertise. the end of the patriarchy is not matriarchy, but fraternity. you're always with the one you love, so love the one you're with. peace
Indeed
Almost all the women I have ever been involved with have been promiscuous. Not to say that they ever cheated on me. But the amount of sexual partners they had before I came along always greatly outweighed my own record board. This in itself can generate a lot of insecurities on so many different levels.
My last real relationship, also being the longest and most serious, ended in a unique way. This girl was as perfect a match as I would ever get and our relationship was a fairly solid one. Which is why I think I felt so strongly about ending it.
I was tired of being in a relationship. I have always been an extremely independant person and the girl I was with became increasingly dependant on me. I put up so much effort to try and keep her happy and satisfied yet felt very little satisfaction for myself. I loved her, and still do, but I was going crazy and began having random anxiety attacks. I realised I couldnt handle the situation I was in anymore. I ended up having to end it. I was tired of having to make decisions for two people, being unable to do what I wanted for fear of how it would affect someone else. That, and I have always been very sexual, so I definately wanted to play the field and make up for lost time.
However I am determined not get into another traditional relationship ever again. Its not something that does any good for me. I am different from most men, I can share deep intimate and emotional experiences with a woman and not be hurt by her doing the same with others.
I still have sex and share love with my ex. It has been a rocky path but she is beggining to understand the joy of personal freedom for herself as well. And at first I was concerned that I may get lonely because most women that I would want may not want to be with a guy who doesnt do commited relationships. Luckily I have not had that problem and have actually been having a great time. This may be because I am 23, and in the age group where women are just commonly more promiscuous.
Most of the time when I talk to people who ask me what happened to my relationship with my ex ("You two were the perfect couple, blah blah blah"), I find they just dont seem to get it. They seem to think I threw away love for meaningless sex and thats all I care about. Which is far from the truth.
I love more freely, have had a lot of great sex, have been able to have my personal time and have made a lot of progress in producing the work I have been yearning to do for so long (art, writing, music). So tell me whats wrong with that?
Uncaring attitude
Hi Lugh,
I think its wise to take stock of where a relationship is going, and if it is not for you to fet out. I beleive as James Redfield wrote, that to many relationships are merely wars for energy. Often this means need, clinging, sacrifice and reliance on the decisions of others.
I can see your wisdom in taking a step back, my disapointment came when you stated, "I still have sex and share love with my ex. It has been a rocky path but she is beggining to understand the joy of personal freedom for herself as well."
I must say that smacks me of a very selfish urge, you want your cake and eat it. The girl was 'happy' with the relationship and you did what was best for you by ending it. However to let her think your still in a intimate realtionship is grossly negligent if you love her. I think most of us would suspect that she is obliging you merely in the beleif that you will stay with her, perhaps get back together. Its an all to common result after a break up. Most of us have been on one or other side of that, likely both over time. You made your choice and did what was best for you, how about giving this girl the clean break that would likely serve her best?
Of course its your life, but hopefully this will make you ask some self searching questions about this aspect of your actions. This girl is likely suffering by seeing your new promiscuous attitude, whilst hoping beyond hope things will go back to how they were by allowing you to include her in this sex fest.
I am not a prude, people should have the relationships they want. However if I see what seems like obvious potential for hurt I will certainly speak out.
"Become a detective of existence" - Prem Wat
Paradoxical Polyamory...Truth or Dare
Response to Ms V
Ms V,
You speak with an heir of authority but your suggestions are ill-informed and prudish. It is certainly true that open relationships demand greater mastery than most people can muster but what does this have to do with "moral & values"?
It is difficult not to take offense at your casual dismissal of an entire range of behavior which you call "open marriage." Why must there be something wrong with people who make a different choice as to how they orient their relationship models.
I am particularly offended at your sneering disregard for my partner who is a good sport about me writing about very intimate aspects of our lives in this forum. To be clear, I said that her work falls somewhere between that of a " therapist, a masseuse, a spiritual guide and a classic courtesan."
I regret using the hackneyed term "classic" with the word "courtesan." Her work is difficult enough without red herrings like that to distract people like you into judging her as some kind of whore. Counselors who work with the body's energetic systems must address sexual energy, and especially in a society like ours where there is so much sexual wounding, this work is going to be that much more necessary, and charged. My partner and her coleagues are doing as important work as there is to be done on the planet right now and I will not have it misrepresented here.
What she and I are doing together, and what many other couples and tribes are doing in exploring the possibilities of love and honor beyond the marriage paradigm, is also very important work. If our union doesn't last forever does that mean that we have failed? And who are you to counsel on that?
What I read in your post is a lot of judgement and sex negativity that mirrors what I see in mainstream culture. I won't assume that I have a picture of what you need to do or stop doing from what you wrote. All you told us is that you have some psychological training and then gave your opinions about me and my situation as if a BA in counseling also makes you clairvoyant. I'm more curious to read about how you orient your life in regards to eros than to hear what you think you know about my experience. Have you been cheated on or done the cheating? Or have you and your chosen partners always been perfect? How did that work for you?
Presently Yours,
Andras Jones
www.myspace.com/radio8ball
Is it really Love & Honor ?
My ex & I owned a swing house in Hollywood for several years. We have known quite a few couples who were swingers in open marriages.
As I look back over the years I’ve seen the majority of the open marriages end in jealousy and insecurity. Many of the women met guys who were wealthier or better in the sack and moved on to greener pastures. Many of the men felt inadequate after seeing and hearing screams of ecstasy coming from their partner with many men, so much so they walked away from long term marriages.
In your blog you also state that you feel “ At times it has seemed almost unbearable. She generally goes for older, more powerful, wealthier, and/or stronger men than me, which definitely flips my switch. I get insecure. I get crazy." So, it’s true. Open marriage is not all it’s cracked up to be.
People get hurt in the end.
I’m not so sure the majority of people in the world see love and honor as a strong foundation in an open marriage. I know I didn’t see the love and honor when couple fought, cried and felt betrayed when their lover left them for someone they met at the swing house.
Some of these people appeared to be hip, cool couples, yet beneath the surface they feel deeply and want what we all want. To be loved and accepted by our partner. I no longer feel the need to have multiple partners. I am very happy sharing the adventure called life with my loving, caring & devoted partner in life. We are considered a hip, cool couple very much in love after 8 years. I hope your unconventional relationship lasts, although the odds are stacked up against that being long term. Good Luck!
Peace Brother,
Rick
your reply
Rick,
I'm very sorry that you had a bad experience. I've been in an open relationship for years, and yes, there have been challenges, but I can't say that I've been hurt any more than in my monogamous relationships. People are going to hurt in almost ANY relationship they dare to undertake. Being open about who you screw doesn't rule that possibility out, but neither does monogamy or outward monogamy/secret cheating. Relationships are fraught with emotional peril, yet we continue to risk our hearts. "The heart is treacherous and desperate; who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9)
I would never say that being open is the way to go for most people. It is but one possible path towards sexual healing. Love and honor should be at the basis of relationships, but so should honesty ... especially self-honesty. It sounds like you did the hard work to get to that honest place within yourself. Cheers for that. I sincerely hope that you continue to find all you need within your one relationship. I just don't think I'm wired that way.
hugs,
christy
Truth or Dare - Face your demons honestly & DARE to grow!
My credentials, I have a MA (Masters degree in Counseling Psychology from UCLA) not a BA.
I simply expressed my opinion in my blog, I was not being confrontational by asking you to reevaluate some of YOUR comments. After 15 years as a couples counselor and have dealt with over 70,000 people…yes, I do speak with authority, knowledge & wisdom.
Throughout your blog you show signs be being sensitive & reaching out for more than promiscuous women have to give. It is understandable that this adds to your frustration and deepens your fear of commitment to experiencing a truly deep loving & lasting relationship with your partner.
You describe your partner as a “Classic Courtesan” for a living. You say it doesn’t bother you on one hand, yet you also admit that “her dalliances or interludes has caused me some degree of emotional discomfort. That's an understatement. At times it has seemed almost unbearable.” YOU said it not me.
It is sad that you feel the need to interview your lover’s other partners…
Are you trying to measure up?
or justify the reasons when she has eventually left you for another?
Why do you feel the need to be with someone who will inevitably discard you for someone stronger or wealthier or both?”
You need to ask yourself these questions seriously and realize that perhaps you should try dating an attractive woman who is NOT promiscuous. Someone who sees sex as an adventure with YOU and has the light of love in her eyes ONLY for you. Try it sometime, you may find true love as a worthwhile experience.
As for cheating, when people are in their early 20’s it is a time for experimentation. Often outside of a committed relationship. Yes, it is painful to people to feel betrayed. As we mature as adults, we learn to communicate our needs better as time goes by and select a partner who is not promiscuous to avoid future pain of rejection & betrayal.
When you put all your deepest feelings and innermost fears out in public… you can expect to hear the truth from at least one person.
Truth or Dare means…face your demons honestly and dare to make the changes necessary for you to find the happiness you secretly desire.
You must realize that coping an attitude and not growing past the immaturity of youth is not the answer to finding happiness & love.
Good Luck in your search,
Ms. V
Obviously anything I write is only my opinion...
wow
Not much fun
Your words are perhaps a little harsh, but certainly it does sound rather like self mortification and emotional suffering rather than a fun relationship. I would much prefer being alone, but then I love myself, which is a rare thing these days.
"Become a detective of existence" - Prem Wat
How many faces of you live in the wardrobe
Is Love a Polyamorous Ego-Slayer?
Tradition
Marriage.
Headbutt.
New wall.
No marriage.
No headbutt.
No wall.
Hm.
Will this work for everyone? No. Does anything? Rarely. (Unless you're a cute little group of grazing sheep ... which can be okay if sheep are your thing.) But critically thinking about your issue and assessing a personalized, individual response might. It's hard to do, but worth it in the end.
XO Rhonda Baughman, MA, EdS