Out of Eden: Where Do We Go From Here?

well, i'm not really that sure there was an eden to begin with. i think that the various ideas of a perfect state from which we fell distorts the sentiment of how and why we need to go (back) to a perfect state.

Your podcast inspired a flurry of thoughts in me that I'm still sorting out. I first got all excited about Jonathan's mention of Lakoff's "Don't think of an Elephant" and the theory that language is in fact the basis of the Republican's ability to sway the voting public despite their incompentency to lead. Now, I haven't read his book, but I'm not sure if "argument framing" is the complete answer. I believe that interpersonal relations and humanization is the way into swaying the mainstream rather than our current approach of reasoning, "framing" and use of exotic stunts. I base this on an interesting lecture by Social and cultural psychologist Jonathan Haidt, that provided what to me was a fuller and more effective analysis of the current state of politics and morality. In fact in a Q+A session at the end, he mentions Lakoff and that is why the name stuck out to me. He agrees with the analysis of language but believes (and I agree) there is almost always something to be learned from our political opponents' argument. (http://www.newyorker.com/online/video/conference/2007/haidt) I definately reccomend that everyone go check it out and consider what he has to say. I think his approach of respect and curiosity for the conservatives in the country is wise and admirable. I think such an approach will wield peaceful and effective results. As far as the Garden of Eden myth is concerned, I somewhat agree with your notion of it being this being a "mistake". However, I see it a bit differently. According to John Lash, who recovers and restores the gnostic myth of the Earth Goddess, Sophia (now called Gaia) in his book "Not in his Image", The myth bears within it historical truth. Now, I am in the midst of listening to his series of podcasts so my knowledge is not complete, but it is my understanding that these gnostic religions were much more in touch with the environment and our role as human animals within it. It was the Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) religions that began this "salvationist" fervor that disconnected humanity from the Earth through these "mind-virus" beliefs. (i.e. There is a God in heaven- not of this Earth and that we are sinners who need to devote our lives to him so that we may be worthy of his gifts, etc.) So, in my eyes, humanity "bit the apple" when we decided to go with the Abrahamic religions and live this life that requires us to work with no end in sight. (think of our capitalist/consumerist cycle of never-ending production and consumption at the expense of our environment and our souls) Also interesting to note is that Mr. Lash compares certain aspects of these gnostic religions to Buddhism. In my introductory studies of Buddhism, I understand that it is very much based in dealing with the reality that is present before you and eliminating false ideas or ideals (such as those presented by Abrahamic religion). I mention this because of your mention of Yoga and its understanding of energy fields through chakras. I don't know enough about all of this but I suspect I will find that they are all getting at basically the same thing. It seems that various other cultures and religions (Mayans come to mind) have been hip to these ideas with their own interpretations and manifestations of it for a long time now. I also have this feeling, that while this 2000+ year journey of humanity into salvationist religion has had more than its share of terrible suffering and destruction, I nevertheless believe that it had to happen otherwise it never would have. As a result, we are now at a point at which humanity can begin to see this historical truth and decide how much of this way of living is worth maintaining and how much needs to be left behind. On a different note, I'd like to say that many of the ideas presented on this site, in this fourm and your podcast are very interesting and full of a lot of deep truth, but I fear that in our search for the big ideas and the paradigm shifts, we sometimes lose objectivity and practicality. Being on the fringe of society and mainstream thinking, we tend to associate mostly with like-minded people and become guilty of the same groupthink we criticize our political and ideological opposites of. It is important that we maintain humility and openness to ideas and criticism from any and all sources. Don't get me wrong. The work that our Modern Shamans are doing is invaluable and worthwhile. The people of the world NEED spiritual renewal and a connection to all aspects of reality- especially those that are now becoming clearer to many of us doing this intense work. Nevertheless, if this spiritual and ideological movement is going to survive and sustain, we will need practical solutions for our global challenges (ex. Colin Beavan's "No- Impact Man" experiment in NYC), and organizational structures that formalize and communicate our findings to a large-scale (and eventually mainstream) audience which we will all inevitably need on our side.They need to understand us and we need to really understand them. I believe that old traditions like the gnostic traditions and Buddhism mixed with some of the efficient ways and means of experimentation, analysis and marketing that our current culture has devised may bring about such transformation. If we are all truly connected and there really is no enemy other than ourselves, then let's be sure we live it rather than only talk about it. I say this to myself first, knowing that I have a long ways to go before I am living by the values I aspire to I say this to all of you who may very well be more active than I at this moment. This site in itself is an excellent first step towards these goals. I hope those coming to this site will be inspired to congregate and propgate this better way that we are discovering.