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Mars, Neptune and Orgasm Addiction: Holding and Sharing Your Sexual Energies

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This article is being republished with permission from Sasstrology.com (May 9th, 2012).


The majority of my clients, for whatever reason, have big-time questions about why their relationships haven’t lasted, why their current relationship is tanking, or what they need to change about themselves in order to “be ready” for their soul mate. Although no two astrology charts and no two people are alike, if I had to point my finger at one relationship-destroying culprit, I would feel confident blaming what I’ve come to call “orgasm addiction.”

The easiest place to spot orgasm addiction in the birth chart (although I believe this dilemma is rather universal) has to do with the contacts being made between the 1st House/Aries and Mars, and the 12th House/Pisces and Neptune.

Before diving into these controversial waters, I’d like to issue a few qualifiers. One, there is nothing inherently wrong with having orgasms. Two, there is a distinct difference between the repression/suppression of our sexual nature, and learning to withhold from orgasms in a sacred sexual practice. Three, not everyone has issues around orgasms in their relationships (though I believe many people do), and so the ideas I’ll propose in this essay should be considered carefully against the reality of one’s personal relationship history.

The Nature of the 1st House, Aries, and Mars

The 1st house, the sign of Aries, and the planet Mars all relate to the most primitive level of our existence. Aries points to the first moment of birth, the purest fire of our life force, and the big bang of creation. On the physiological level, this trio refers to our vitality: our sense of individual health and strength. On the psychological level, they all point toward our sense of self-hood, our courage, our willpower, and our most primitive sexual/creative drive.

The 1st house/Aries/Mars trifecta is intimately related to romance, relationship, and sexuality. Without these energies we wouldn’t have access to the power and impulse needed to engage intimately with another human being. We wouldn’t have chemistry and spark. We wouldn’t have the desire to create something new. The 1st house, Aries and Mars refer to the big bang, orgasmic energy we need to create anything new in our lives. Without this healthy life force, we literally become ill and diseased. Without this in our relationships we lose the “spark” or the newness of our connection. In short, if we want flaming hot love lives, we need to make sure that these energies are being taken good care of.

The Nature of the 12th House, Pisces, and Neptune

The 12th house, the sign of Pisces, and the planet Neptune all relate to the highest dream of the zodiac: the manifestation of our ideals and the attainment of perfection. Pisces points to the manifestation of heaven on earth: the place where the singular, spiritual realms (the upward- and eastward-moving Piscean fish) become fully integrated within the dualistic, material world (the downward- and westward-moving Piscean fish). The reality of achieving perfection has traditionally been reserved for avatars, saints, ascetics, gurus, and mystics.

If the zodiac story starts with Mars and the creative impulse, then the creative impulse is thought to end, or complete itself, in the attainment of enlightenment or perfection. Without the energies of the 12th house, Pisces, and Neptune, we wouldn’t have any reason or call to create in the first place. Even if heaven or enlightenment is never actually obtained, even if it’s not a “real” possibility, we need ideals and visions (Neptune) to aspire toward with our creative life force (Mars). In romance, we need the ideal of the perfect union and the “happily ever after” to hurtle us forward into a new partner, a new love story, and a new attempt at the ideal state of romantic bliss.

The Nature of the Orgasm Addiction Cycle

At the beginning of our relationships, inspired by a vision of the perfect union (Neptune) or the perfect state of sexual bliss (Neptune) we throw ourselves head first (Mars) with great passion right into one another (Mars). The result, in the beginning, is what we call “the honeymoon period.” Conquest and ideals blend immediately and there are great amounts of newness and happiness. If this were the end of the story, we would all be blissed out and in love, and I would not see so many clients whose love lives suffer so greatly. Unfortunately, this honeymoon period ends relatively quickly (for some it lasts longer than others), tensions mount, the passion often fades, tensions rise, and we begin to despair. We wonder, “What happened? Things were going so well! Why does this always happen to me? I must have bad karma!”

One age-old mystical answer—that often gets swept under the rug—suggests that it is our attachment to orgasms during intercourse that keeps us falling in and out of love with new partners.

When we orgasm, we are depleting our life force and vitality. Through ejaculation and the heaving, energetic releases of orgasm we lose life force. The reason we lose life force is very simple: the explosion is designed to create a new life form. For men, especially, habitual orgasms can be incredibly hard on the adrenals and the kidneys. In the art of Chinese medicine and acupuncture, men are encouraged to orgasm at certain spaced out intervals so as not to drain their life force too often, which is thought to create stress and disease in the body. After an orgasm there is a certain period of time that is needed for the body to recover its sexual “charge.” Often, we do not take the time and give ourselves the space to heal and rebuild our sexual energy. In the beginning of our relationships, the newness of the dynamic helps us to recover our sexual charge more quickly. However, as time presses on and familiarity sets in, the negative results of orgasm dependency start showing up.

The Signs of Orgasm Dependency

The first sign of orgasm dependency is irritation or clinginess, in extremes. When our life force is drained repeatedly, without recovery time and without the inclusion of prolonged bonding behavior during intercourse, we become agitated. We can either project this agitation onto our partner, or we can internalize it. Projected, we can only see the most irritating qualities in our partners. Where they were once idyllic and perfect, now they are less attractive and even aggravating. For some people, even the touch of a partner when the life force is drained can bring up strong feelings of resentment and irritation. On the other hand if the depletion of the sexual energy is internalized, we can feel needy, insecure, clingy and jealous.

In my counseling practice I’ve noticed (although it is sometimes the opposite) that women internalize the feeling of depletion whereas men project it. This creates the typical post-sexual exhaustion scenario: man seems distant, irritated, and unattracted while the woman seems clingy, insecure, and possessive. Although the manifestations are very different, they are both symptoms of the depletion of sexual energy in each partner. Oftentimes this dynamic leads to intense fighting, which in turn arouses the passions again and enables another round of vigorous intercourse. However, after time, the compulsive sexual dynamic wears down to the point where the relationship needs something new (pornography, an open door policy, etc.) and, if it’s not found, cheating often happens or the relationship simply ends.

The reason “something new” is needed is because that “something new” is what ignites the conquest drive (Mars) toward the perfect fusion (Neptune) all over again. The problem with all of this is simple. These destructive relationship behaviors demonstrate an addiction to the Mars/Neptune impulse rather than a constructive fusion of their archetypal functions toward healthy ends.

In our relationships, orgasm addiction can be the beginning of the end. When we get fixated on the momentary bliss of orgasm instead of the circulating of affection, touch, breath, and intimacy, we can quickly objectify each other. Instead of building intimacy between two people, we use each other to manifest our ego ideals and then quickly become disenchanted when we find ourselves not really knowing or loving each other, and not having accomplished anything. Such is the nature of the ego who does not know how to serve the higher self!

Traditional sacred sexuality encourages real intimacy instead of just the rush toward orgasm. Couples are encouraged to place more emphasis on the circulating, sharing, and slow/playful exploring of each other’s bodies, minds, and spirits during intercourse. In this kind of lovemaking, the emphasis is placed on bonding rather than building or rushing toward orgasm (and hence the completion and shutting off of the sexual charge). Orgasms may be had occasionally, but primary attention is not placed upon them. Orgasms should be had sparingly, if at all. Some even say that if you’re not planning on creating a life, then don’t orgasm. This is perhaps a more conservative sacred sexual philosophy.
Recently more books are being written that suggest that our fixation on orgasm can be as addicting and potentially health-harming as nicotine and alcohol addiction. When couples engage in orgasmless intercourse, entering each other peacefully and slowly, circulating and exploring intimacy without climax for long periods of time, and then disengaging slowly, intimacy is thought to be built rather than bodies being depleted. Practicing intercourse regularly without orgasm is thought to lead to heightened sexual activity, deeper and subtler levels of intimacy, bio-rhythms merging more fluidly, and the overall reduction of stress.

The Nature of Mars/Neptune Contacts

From the astrological point of view we need to make sure that our creative energy (Mars) is being circulated and taken care of rather than exhausted habitually, if we want to achieve our dreams (Neptune). Aries often lacks the stamina to follow through or the patience to create long-lasting results. If we want to reach our highest ideals (Neptune) in partnership and romance, then we need to learn how to keep our creative energy (Mars) alive and well. Interestingly enough, Mars/Neptune contacts have traditionally referred to sacred sexuality as well as the drastic impulse to lose oneself entirely. Mars/Neptune can refer to martial arts, dance, and tai-chi, as readily as sex and drug addiction.
The nature of Mars/Neptune is that of the first and last sign of the zodiac trying to understand each other. How do we use the most basic, excitable, journey starting creativity (our sex drive/Mars) to make our biggest and longest-lasting dreams come true (Neptune)? The answer: through circulating our creative energies we slowly and patiently build lasting results that will most closely resemble our dreams!

Here is a list of various ways that Mars/Neptune contacts manifest in the natal chart:

Hard Aspects between Mars and Neptune

The conjunction, opposition, and squares between Mars and Neptune all reflect the potential for sacred sexuality to be realized or explored very easily in a relationship. The same angles can denote potential struggle with orgasmic addictions. A wonderful first step for clients who struggle with their sexual impulses, addiction and/or constant relationship failures is to encourage a martial art, dance, breath practice, or yoga. Oftentimes, before we can open to sacred sexuality, we need to learn how to use our life force (Mars) in a more fluid and circulatory way (Neptune).

▪    Aries ruling the 12th or Pisces ruling the first often plays out like a hard aspect between Mars and Neptune.
▪    Mars in the 12th or Neptune in the 1st also tend to play out like a hard aspect between Mars and Neptune.
Soft Aspects between Mars and Neptune

Although many astrologers insist that trines and sextiles are “easier” than hard aspects, I’ve observed just the opposite in my practice. Soft aspects are often harder to uncover or address with a client because they are more unconscious and/or more entangled in each other. Trines and sextiles between Mars and Neptune often appear as a family or ancestral connection to sacred sexual practices. At the same time, they can often appear as family or ancestral connections to orgasmic or substance addictions.

On the whole, any aspects being made—hard or soft—show the exact same tendency. While there is an incredible ability to use one’s sexual, creative impulse to create or pursue dreams, there is also a tendency to drain one’s creative energies for quick-fixes and short-lived, explosive results.

Final Thoughts

It’s important for me to share that I am someone who has a natal opposition from Mars to Neptune. Early on in my life, I struggled with sexual and substance addictions until I found my way onto a spiritual path and began practicing yoga, meditation, shamanism, and sacred (orgasmless) sexuality. While these practices have been vital for the health of me and my partnership, I recognize that these ideas are not for everyone.
On a larger scale, I am interested in the idea that the impatient, impulsive, and desirous side of this Mars/Neptune archetype is perhaps in part responsible for the overpopulating of our planet, the destruction of sacred, monogamous behavior, and the increase in orgasmic thinking, advertising, marketing, and indulging in general. I wonder what would happen if instead of staying attached to “quick fixes” and “getting off,” we learned to circulate, hold and share our sexual energies?

For More information about Nightlight Astrology Please Visit Us at www.nightlightastrology.com

Recommended Reading:

▪    Cupid’s Poisoned Arrow: From Habit to Harmony in Sexual Relationships by Marnia Robinson
▪    Wired for Intimacy: How Pornography Hijacks the Male Brain by William M. Struthers
▪    The Karezza Method: Magnetation, The Art of Connubial Love (Forgotten Books) by John William Lloyd
▪    The Pleasure Trap: Mastering the Hidden Force that Undermines Health & Happiness by Douglas Lisle
▪    The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire by David Deida

Comments

teehee

Huh whatnow? Also I am not

Huh whatnow? Also I am not sure I comprehend your seemingly excessively incoherent & irellevant posts further down... Perhaps someone should delete them and give you a time out? Or maybe I'm just unfamiliar with the hijinks....

 

Well anyways This article was very enilightening- Much of what hempel has to say in the comments is quite intriguing but will take some time (& perhaps research) to process.

First, I respect that this works for you

And I am glad that you have been able to find happiness through your methods.

However, I am not sure your hypothesis holds up. The phenomenon you have described has actually been researched scientifically and their findings contradict yours.

It seems that when people start a sexual relationship there is a biochemical change that takes place. This change in chemistry has the exact effects you describe and peters out in around the time frame that you suggest. Below is an article in regards to the research.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4669104.stm

Please note that orgasms don't really come into play one way or another. However, your method does assist in helping people transition into the familiar affection phase of relationships. Though I am not sure that trying to push against one's chemistry in order to skip part of a relationship is the easiest course of action.

thanks!

Hey Cassius,

There are so MANY! studies these days...what to do with all of them. I personally resonate with the studies presented in Marnia Robinson's book(s) on the subject of how orgasm addiction effects relationships after 2 years, which is also a mars return in astrology talk. What you will find with couples (testimonial wise) who practice karezza or non goal based sexual practice is that their flame doesn't die out. Simple. And you can't know until you try it--that's also simple. Theory on this subject (in my opinion) makes little difference until you immerse yourself in a practice. 

 If you want to know the difference, try 3-6 months of non orgasm based sexual intercourse, and then try 3-6 months of orgasm based intercourse afterward and note the difference. I've done this and the results were very plain and very simple. I find it interesting that people's resistance to this practice comes before they ever give it an honest try. How objective can that really be?

Last but not least, if we didn't push against our chemistry, in many instances, we would get into all kinds of fights, sexual encounters, and otherwise uncivil or disruptive behavior. We evolve when we learn to work WITH our nature rather than let it work us (imho).

All I can say to people who discard the theory before trying it is that it's no different than people who discard the notion of any other lifestyle change as helpful before trying it to see if it is or not. And I'm not suggesting that it's helpful for everyone. Some people, I do believe, can handle more semi-regular orgasmic exchange without fallout, but I don't think most can consdiering how orgasmic our media and general environment are already! 

Adam Elenbaas

Oddly enough, I did try it for about 6 months.

Good afternoon,

 The result at the end of the day is that I was hateful.  Sometimes it would peak into barely contained "see red" rage but for the most part it would be like a steady undercurrent of hate for everyone and everything.  It was like seeing everything in the worst possible way.  After about six months of hating reality as a whole I decided that I really prefered liking some things, disliking others, and only hating a very small number of things.  And my friends and significant other made me swear never to try it again.

Like I said, I'm glad that you find happiness from the practice.

try what?

 

So you were having regular intercourse with a partner without releasing for 6 months? And it caused you rage? 

Adam Elenbaas

ps

 

If you were with a partner practicing during this time, what was his/her response after 6 months? Also--did you ever try regulating release with non-release (mixing in an orgasm here or there?). Just curious. I respect that you gave non goal based sex a try in your partnership. Are you still with the same partner? Sometimes the partnership is the problem, rather than the sexuality of the partnership. But yeah, if it doesn't work for someone then it doesn't work! 

Adam Elenbaas

Not just rage.  It was

Not just rage.  It was broader than that.  It wasn't just, "I am mad at person X because of Y" or even "I am mad at X."  I'm not even sure there is a word for it.  It was as if all I felt for everything was hate. The closest thing I can think of is the Buddhist idea of equanimity, only instead of lifting everything up so that you have happiness towards everything do the exact opposite.  

And my partner's reaction wasn't what one would call positive but she knew me well enough not to question it.  When I commit to something I am stubborn as a mule and she knew that nothing short of moving heaven and earth would get me to orgasm even once. We aren't together anymore, this was years and years ago.

 Back to the original post, I find it is a lot easier to deal with the relationship change if I simply am aware of it and know why it is.  For example, with the relationship I'm in now I know that in anywhere from another month to a year from now the chemistry will drop off and that how relationships go.  After that we will still have sex and moments of super intense passion but for the most part the relationship will stand or fall based on more prosaic things like communication and shared interests.  This isn't because she is somehow "wrong for me" as much as the end product of millions of years of evolution. 

interesting about rage

 

Interesting--I've heard atheletes talk about needing rage for games--and so they don't have sex. I'm fascinated by this as it's just the complete opposite for me (and most men who value this practice) in terms of creative/physical/mental/emotional energy. Like I say in this article--it could be unique to the astrological/soul level makeup--or a genetic tendency..who knows! At any rate, I can't agree with the idea that passion, no matter what, dies off after two years...for some people it really does seem that circulation of sexual energy leads to long-term passion in relationships rather than die off, and I think the evidence presented in some of the books I've referenced in this piece is really worth serious consideration.

 

I wish that non goal based intimacy was a solution for everyone who experiences passion die off, but it clearly isn't! That being said, your attitude seems like a healthy one..in terms of embracing how things are and persisting with consciousness in a relationship! I admire that.

 

Adam Elenbaas

Can humanity transcend sexuality?

I am particularly interested in this post, because you describe your behavior as angry due to not having an orgasm for six months. I'm wondering if the lack of regular orgasms overall makes you unhappy, or the fact that you were engaging in sex while also abstaining from orgasm is what made you unhappy. In other words, could you go for six months without having an orgasm, without having sex at all, and still be ok with yourself?

An adjacent topic I'm interested in here is the human interest in sex, in any case. Could there be the potential for humans to understand themselves outside of sexuality completely and peacefully? Could we become asexual (meaning the lack of sexual desire and necessity rather than parthenogenesis)? Could we understand ourselves as individuals who lack a desire or need for reproduction? Evolutionarily, could we overcome our human existence in totality and become apathetic to a (hypothetical) decline in the human species? Last question, must life on Earth be preoccupied with the physical/material manifestation of existence and consciousness?

 

Anyone's input here would be appriciated.  

HMJ

kind of agree

 

Hey Drew,

I'm fascinatd by much of what you've presented. I disagree that female orgasms are unanimously non depleting. I disagree because women also carry the masculine and women also carry addictions to orgasms. I've witnessed and counseled many women who struggle with the same symptoms as males after sex--lack of interest, irritation, etc.

However, I do think that MANY women orgasm as you suggest. And I also agree that, largely, this is an issue for men. I think that men short circuit their masculinity when they become dependent on orgasm--our bodies don't have the same psychic response to the event that women do (imho).

The idea of orgasm without ejaculation is wonderful. In this day and age maybe it would be good to draw a distinction in the language again?! Bravo for doing that here. Heart orgasms are a wonderful part of non goal based sexuality. Very real and easy to cultivate with as much mindfulness as any of our other practices. 

I'm amused at how little thought we put into sexual practice compared to every other aspect of our lives as creative/spiritual folks writing or theorizing in this community! The two extremes seem to be: a) celibacy and renunciation or b) polyamory. I'm sure there are sacred versions of both, but from what I've witnessed the people who generally espouse these points of views are ironically inconsistent in how they walk their talk or treat others. 

Adam Elenbaas

THANK YOU

I came to terms with an addiction to and energy drainage from orgasms about 6 years ago. Eventually I came across the Gnostic obsession with restraining orgasm, and though I don't get all the way down with the dogma, I was really caught by the idea and the practice. Thank you so much for writing this in a spiritual/physiological context that is more comfortable for me. It's so affirmative. And the time that I have spent withholding orgasm has been some of the deepest and growth-promoting of my life. I am honestly jaw-dropped at this article. Thank you. --An ounce of practice is worth a ton of theory.--

absolutely agreed!

 

Hey Amanita,

 Thank you! It's affirming to hear other such stories (which I've received in spades today!). Lots of people (not everyone) suffer from regular energy depletion because of orgasms. It leads people into sexual behavior patterns that are often nothing but a spiral into a really dark place. Again, I don't want to say it's always like this, but I feel strongly enough about it to suggest that it's a sexual epidemic in our world. I just don't think most people (at least males) have any idea what it's like to go for an extended period of time (after being habitually orgasmic) without orgasm. It's immensely healing and it gets all the better and relationships grow so profoundly when it's able to be shared and circulated with a lover!

Adam Elenbaas

Orga(ni)smic longing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_poto8yQU4&NR=1&feature=endscreen

 

"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson

 

relaxing deeper and deeper...from bliss into Bliss

written many years ago...and still fresh, waiting to be lived...

"It is commonly thought that, of all people, lovers behold one another in the most unrealistic light, and that in their encounter is but the mutual projection of extravagant ideals. But may it not be that nature has allowed them to see for the first time what a human being is, and that the subsequent disillusion is not the fading of dream into reality but the strangling of reality with an all to eager embrace?" 

http://books.google.com/books/about/Nature_man_and_woman.html?id=t2QgAQA...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1EXdtGAmw&feature=relmfu

 

"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson

 

neptune in lyric

Great quote Zorro! Very Neptunian! 

 

Adam Elenbaas

Birth Chart/ Help?

Hi Adam, thanks for writing this awesome article, really intriguing concept. Understanding and applying this to my own birth chart is kinda confusing though. I have no straightforward aspects between Mars and Neptune. I have Sun in Pisces 8th house, Neptune in Capricorn 6th (conj. Uranus, sext. Sun), and 12th house is Cancer. Ascendant is Leo (opp. Mars), Midheaven is Aries (Sq. Neptune), and Mars is in Aquarius 6th house (quinx. Jupiter) with the Moon. (Saturn and Venus 7th house Aquarius). Neptune has a Trine with Jupiter in Virgo. I’m not sure what to make of this really, It seems slightly complicated… I’m not sure what patterns are there and which are most significant. I got a karmic interpretation of my birth chart recently and it said that Saturn in the 7th can mean a lot of frustration, difficulty and potential for growth in the area of committed relationships. Whats your take on this? I put a lot of my energy into music which is perfect, but I think habitual masturbation and a subversive urge to watch porn might be the main component in keeping a vicious cycle going. It might partially be my age, but I have a massive craving for orgasms, and I have a whole lot of energy which I feel I've been putting to waste somewhat. I've feel I've spent too much time keeping my sexual energy to my self. This is tied to a longing for intimacy too of course, but I think I’m scared to open up the possibility of real intimacy in case it gets too intense for me to handle, or because I'm afraid to be vulnerable. I'd really like to try just pure celibacy for awhile and see what differences I notice, its great advice. (I just hope I don't lose control and get constant erections or something..:/ or is that just an urban myth? haha) Thanks again for the article, and any help, and a brief interpretaion of my chart would be fantastic! Thanks for reading, Josh.

Hey Josh

 

Hey Josh,

 Thanks for sharing. Saturn in the 7th often gets a bad rep, but it's not always so bad or "difficult." I'd have to see your chart and we'd have to sit down for a full session together to get into this in a meaningful way. My first thought is that if this article resonated with you and you also struggle with habitual masturbation and/or pornography addiction, then it might be time to try looking into a constructive, healthy approach to changing your sexual patterns (it's just like dieting--it's not always healthy to radically change everything instantly as this can turn into a game of extremes). Everything is very unique to each individual's natal chart, and it's not as simple as saying, "just don't have sex" or "just don't orgasm," or "become celibat." Moderation and learning what the balance looks like for you, personally, would be the first task (in my opinion).

 

I'd be happy to work with you on the subject--this is an area I work with often with my clients. You can email me at nightlightastrology@gmail.com

 

Adam Elenbaas

very cool

Thanks for sharing, Drew. I couldn't agree more about "sucking off the females." Unfortunate! 

 

Adam Elenbaas

Great Article.

Thank you, Adam. Really appreciate this article and want to give this a try. I read a similar article several years ago, and I have noted that the day after orgasms are the days my partner and I are most likely to get into a fight. Which in turn, just like you said, builds up the tension for the make-up sex that usually seems to lead to some sort of complications the following day. Vicious cycle. I saw the recommended reading list, but do you have any thoughts on the best book for implementing this practice. Thank you, and thank you to drew for your insightful comments.

good place to start

 

Hey Seen--

 Thanks for your response. I would recommend starting with William Lloyd's book on Karezza or Marnia Robinson's "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" or "PEace Between the Sheets." These are good starting points. I think the poetry of the practice (the soul level feeling of it) comes through in Lloyd's book while the logic of it comes through in Robinson's Cupid book. I also value these because the tantra books are still (often enough) orgasmic, and modern tantra teachers are a mixed bag of tricks (in my opinion). This is very straight forward and doesn't come from a Guru or a guru based tradition (which, again, I think is good as a starting block). 

You're right about the vicious cycle. You also could youtube search "Marnia Robinson" for some good video lectures on Karezza--which is basically non-goal based intercourse.

I find that too many western people get lost in trying to identify themselves with...yoga, shamanism, tantra, etc...this practice keeps it very simple and doesn't talk a lot about theory or method outside of the facts around what types of intercourse and physical practices tend to cause disharmony versus those that build intimacy. From here I've been able to explore tantra, etc, with a solid foundation (I don't get lost in the woo woo).

 

Blessings and good luck on your quest!! :-) 

 

Adam Elenbaas

Truly Appreciated!

Hey Adam,

Thank you very much for the response.  I think you have given me and hopefully some others a good place to start.

Thanks Again, and Blessings to you!

struggling

 

Hey Arturo,

 

I agree with your criticism to a certain extent..let's not make this too complicated. Yet--I have witnessed in my own life that orgasm based sex doesn't make me happy in the long run. The theory isn't about what we should repress...it's about what we should learn to work with. I disagree that sex should be animalistic--I think we need to learn how to control and evolve certain elements of our nature--this is how evolution ocurrs, no? I mean--would we be talking online right now if not?

Anyway--I've found your posts mostly incoherent (not trying to sound mean)...they are poetic, but I'm having a hard time following why you are posting or what you are trying to say. If you are so cynical about this then why are you here? If you don't like this "overly intellectual" article then just walk away...what do you have at stake here?

 

Adam Elenbaas

What about the Opposite?

All of the symptoms that Adam describes happening to both sexes if they have to many orgasms also seems to happen when there is a lack of orgasms within a partnership. As a female who dealt with understanding her own sexual power as a young adult, I came to the conclusion that intimacy within monogamy was much more emotionally and physically fulfilling that other types of sex and more uplifting than having sex frequently.

Once I reached this conclusion as a single person, I took much needed breaks to be celibate in order to restore my emotional and spiritual health. When I finally committed to a partner we had a fairly long "honey moon" period and then our regularity with sex and any kind of physical intimacy greatly diminished, like many couples. Over the last four years this pattern of rarely having sex or making love hasn't increased and has caused tension, depression and aggression within me. It has forced me to look at the true desire and need for orgasms and physical intimacy and I now deal with it and identify with myself and my partner when it comes up. It's still never easy but it forces me to look at balancing my sexual drive and restoring my vital energies. Regular orgasms still seem to be an important part of staying balanced, refreshed and more at peace and not drained or energy. I have venus and saturn in my 1st house (in scorpio) and the sun, pluto and mercury in my 12th house (in libra). What are your thoughts on this Adam?

Everyone is different

 

Hey Crayonarino,

 

I honestly can't say that my observations confirm that the opposite is true (as you are suggesting here). So far, in my counseling practice and in my own life I have observed that moderate orgasms to no orgasms are the best route to a healthy sex life in partnership.

I think that couples who are still together after many years but rarely have sex are most likely depleted. The pattern tends to be that couples have intercourse regularly and semi-vigorously for a "honey moon" period. This pattern of constant depletion leads couples to need more and more to get the same high. The cycle is vicious because it is continually depleting. Although things start with a bang they usually end with pornography, masturbation, lack or serious decrease of intimacy/sex, and either a kind of emotional/erotic stalemate in the relationship or the petrification of the bond (the 'we're content to be friends in love' statement). 

The need for orgasm, in my opinion, is deceptive. I don't think we need orgasms; I think we need orgasmic circulation (the sexual feelings of excitement are transferred and shared but held and worked with rather than released). A lot of the time people think they need/deserve orgasms regularly, and they get frustrated with their partnership for not being able to meet this "need." The need is an endless hole for a lot of people--that's the problem. It's never filled. Whereas what I've noticed in people that circulate orgasmic energy without release (or moderate to seldom releasing) is that they are always satisfied and crave each other's touch/breath/body more regularly. It doesn't decrease with time, in fact it increases. Sessions are much, much longer than with traditional sex because when the orgasmic climax need is released the potential for exploration and enjoyment of one another has no end other than when you say it does together!

All this being said, I think everyone has a different relationship to orgasms, and I think that moderation is the key. I think we can all sense what's moderate and what's not in this area, and I think we can all sense when this orgasm loop is derailing our relationships. We just don't like to admit it because we don't like the idea of having to give up something that is about as primitive and biologically ancient (yet outdated) as our orgasm drive.

In Daniel Pinchbeck's recent article posts on Eros Unredeemed he mentioned that early on Women would scream louder than men during sex because they would want to draw more mates to repeat inseminate them--allow the best genes to compete. He suggested this as evidence for polyamory. I think it's evidence for a primitive, competition based model of biological survivalism if its evidence of anything constructive. I think if we look around now we see that just the opposite is true. Our "competition" and sexual proliferation triggers are totally run amok and we are overpopulating the world like a virus. The polyamorous sex drive is no longer about survival it's about domination and gratification. We need a new way of holding things in a world that definitely doesn't need us to keep trying to dominate and move ahead in the literal, sexual/biological sense...

Adam Elenbaas

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interesting

 

I believe what I am describing is the middle ground. There are many types of non ejaculation based orgasms. 

Meantime, it's not about heathenous. It's not about moralit. It's a simple observation/conversation about what works and what doesn't. I am now having more sex for longer periods of time, more frequently, through this new consciousness of sexuality than ever before in my life. I would be willing to bet that non-orgasm based partners have 2-3x more sex (and so do most people who practice this form of sexuality) than couples who ejaculate regularly. Several hours of sex every other day, every few days, sometimes every single day....for months, years, and decades...I don't see that happening when people climax regularly!  Listen to testimonials from the Karezza community and this is what you'll find! People enjoying life-long sexual intimacy...

These are my most enthusiastic thoughts on the subject, but I really do hold space for the existence of regular/orgasmic exchanges in monogamy. I just don't see it or hear about it often! 

Adam Elenbaas

(No subject)

Alex Grey Interbeing

another good read

Enjoyed this article, Adam. Another good read: Sexual Energy and Yoga by Elisabeth Haich.

thank you!

 

Thanks Zympht! :-) 

Adam Elenbaas

thoughts from a very new Muslim

Perhaps life is not just about sex but about things like family, community and commitment to the one true god whom needs no intermediaries. jinn deceptions. astrology is satanic. I renounce the influence of pagan confusion and submit to god and only god. An interesting lecture that made me think a lot about my interest in this occult stuff. I think alot of us are having experiences with the Jinn these days. I'm pretty sure I have. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmxkcwvQxMI

Allahu Akbar! Salaam Ali-kum fellow seekers. May Allah guide you to his heart.

many paths

Unfortunately any religion that renounces paganism or astrology will not survive in the long run. The sun and moon and planets and stars and nature are God's teachers for us. They were here before Islam and they will be here afterward. It's funny because just last night someone was mentioning that, perhaps, Muslims have it "right" to be more mindful of how they present themselves publicly (in terms of protecting against sexual exposure). We ended up agreeing that we respect whatever sacred sexual path someone takes, so long as it does not degrade or denounce others or others' religions or paths. You seem to be degrading and denouncing things that some of us hold dear (our walk with God includes these teachers). You know that all this brings is more hatred and negativity around your religion? People do not respect a God whose message is one of hatred and condemnation, in my opinion. Adam Elenbaas

no dismissal

 

I was not dismissing Islam, Drew.

 

Your posts are interesting, but I find them packed full of too much information with too little take away value. It's like too much meat without enough fiber. I would enjoy what you have to say more if you wrote a cohesive essay with a few focused points or arguments, you know?! Do you have a blog? 

 

Adam Elenbaas

coo thanks drew

 

Cool thanks Drew! I'll check it out. Easier to absorb for me than little bits and pieces in threads I pick up from you when I post articles! Thanks for sharing! 

Adam Elenbaas

I am not much of a writer. I

I am not much of a writer. I couldn't write anything for many years. Fuck I could barley hold a conversation. Still have trouble. Don't write someone off because of their communication skill. I found your post to be very similar to your description of drew's post. long and rambling. so here is some more long rambling. :) I have had some personal experiences which lead me to these conclusions. I was at a local punk show and had a third eye vision of golden snakes swimming out of my third eye through a glowing cloud in a caduceus pattern. At the time I was under a lot of emotional stress. It was triggered by meditating on the drumbeat and music, headnoding(wouldn't really say banging lol). I had smoked a bit of weed earlier too. Over time from this experience(and other less psychedelic experiences like my grandfather[adopted father] getting dementia) Iv'e gone through a lot of personal growth not all of it pleasant. I can actually post a recording of the show I was at. It was a good band called Devotion from Washington state. kind of a bit different from usual hardcore which I'm not a huge fan of. They played a song called "Cathedral Grove" about a forest up-island from were I live. Its at 22:30. http://vimeo.com/29727470 I believe I took the Sufi Way to Islam. I should note that Daniel Pinchbeck's book(2012:ROQ) is what started me on the path to Islam. I have always believed in god though doubted many times. Only recently have I started to believe in the existence of Satan(Iblis) and his influence on the world. Today I've committed myself to not indulging in intoxicants. Specifically marijuana because that's the only one I really use. Have also used mushrooms to great benefit. No longer need them. I knew next to nothing about Islam(other then your usual media lies) until recently. I still have much to learn. A book that changed how I view Islam is No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam by Reza Aslan. I have only just started to read [an english translation of] the Quran but in my heart I feel its the truth. My friend recently taught me how to do Salaat and it was a beautiful experience. He is a fellow new-age hippie who has been doing his own spiritual searching. Anyways im kinda rambling here but one more thing I'd like to post is a video of Dr. Bilal Phillips I just watched that I could relate a lot to. I think a lot of people here could to. His path to Islam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtR-Z3c1720 Thanks for listening friends.

sounds more open minded

 

I liked this post better than your first! :-) Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. 

Adam Elenbaas

life is more then pleasure

who cares what you like? I wonder why you would be so oposed t a religion against astrology/divination.... Did you even watch the Bilal Philips Lecture I posted on The Angels and Jinn? I'm curious what is your thoughts on it? He talks a bit about astrology too. Why its forbbiden. As a Muslim(who recently took his shahadah) I believe in Shaytan and his many tricks and allies. It's interesting that Jose Arguelles thought that the Holy Qur'an was an important book and that we should switch to a lunar Calandar. I agree with that idea.

spam filter ruins my

spam filter ruins my formating.... gah...

Physical detriments of NOT ejaculating?

Hi Adam, hopefully this has not been mentioned yet in the comments (I read a lot of them but did not read all). The other side of the coin that I've read about is that by not allowing the various male organs to purge their fluids occasionally, men are at a much higher rate of developing prostate cancer. Apparently, one of the ways to prevent prostate cancer is 'frequent' ejaculation. I don't know how 'frequent' is defined in this instance, but it makes sense. And also reportedly, according to sources cited by Dr. Mercola (and others), some of the highest rates of prostate cancer are found in celibate monks. What is the middle ground here? I mean we are physical beings and to completely deny our physical nature seems unnatural. Do you care to discuss? Thanks !

studies misleading

 

Hey Stephen,

I think the study you are referring to was the one that demonstrated that men in their 20's who had frequent ejaculations demonstrated lower rates of prostate cancer? There are so many that go in both directions with prostate cancer!

In 2009 a study came out linking higher sexual activity rates with INCREASED rates of prostate cancer.

Here's one like to the study:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7850666.stm

More than proving what orgasms/ejaculation do to men's health I think that the constant contradictory nature of these studies prove that we are living in a time where studies can tell us whatever we want to hear.

I think this path IS the middle ground. I can say that much. I always tell people I'm educating or teaching about this subject that it's not a theory it's a practice. In other words, you can't know the benefits of this practice until you try it consistently over a long period of time (3-6 months at least).

The reason this path, to me, is the middle ground is because it's highly orgasmic without being depleting. People who walk this path have a LOT of sex. And during that sex your body gets what it needs. It's not about deprivation. It only takes a few months of practice to see that having sex doesn't have to focus on or go toward ejaculation to be amazingly rewarding. It's really our choice if we conclude the sexual act by ejaculating. To think otherwise (that ejaculation is absolutely necessary) in my opinion, is to be dominated by our sexual/genetic desire to survive or proliferate our gene pool (which is better done by being a little more intentional about our procreative timing, in my opinion). Our nature is as much capable of choice as it is being guided by "bodily urges." If we used the "natural" argument, then we would get into a fist fight every time someone pissed us off at the grocery store!

Being physical beings does not equate to being ejaculatory beings. Yes, ejaculation is one part of our physical nature, but so too is being highly sexual without needing to climax with ejaculation. What's amazing is that the variety of climaxes that exist, without ejaculation (once one starts exploring regular, long lasting, intercourse without ejaculation), is incredible. There are more orgasmic experiences, of greater and more subtle complexity, than one can imagine when fixated on typical ejaculation. Again, most people reject these ideas in theory before they ever approach them in practice.

I don't think we need to purge our body of semen in order to be healthy. That's an old story that doesn't really work, in my opinion. Now that being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with ocassionally ejaculating. Every human body is different and each person will have a different level of sensitivity to orgasm. I'm always impressed, though, at how little people care for orgasms after they give themselves for, say 6 months to a year, to a non-orgasmic practice. Especially people who have had long periods of habitual release patterns.

To me it's like...why do people who ejaculate regularly and have no regular intervals of "non goal based sex" always ask for a middle path? It's really no different than an alcoholic who argues for moderation at the outset of recovery. Moderation comes after one introduces sobriety for a long period of time...then slowly one can learn how to reintegrate the ocassional drink. For some people even one drink can lead back into a vicious cycle (I'm definitely not an AA guy, but you know what I mean...for some people it's pretty bad). The alcoholic can't imagine what benefits sobriety brings until he/she is sober for a long period of time. At which point moderation can be learned from a clean slate point of view. I don't want to equate orgasms with drunkeness..but I definitely see peopel's attachment to them as similarly addictive in nature.

I think there is also a big differnece betwen celibate monks and someone who is having sex regularly without orgasm (to point back to that real quick).

At any rate, I hope this answers some of your questions. Like I've said a few times in these posts--I'm not opposed to people ejaculating...but I really think that it's time people learn the amazing benefits of sex without orgasm (at least as a much needed contrast). Sex without orgasm is a paradigm changer for most people..it's the most revolutionary sexual practice that exists right now for monogamous people (in my opinion). Like anythign else, it shouldn't be shoved down anybody's throat (pardon the ironic image), but it shouldn't be dismissed either..especially not when so many new age teachers are constantly spouting off about polyamory and free love and tantra. I went to several tantra workshops in NYC and was entirely unimpressed to find, mostly, a group of spaced out new age nymphos (sorry to sound harsh) talking about the most provocative and "astral" ways to have orgasms. There was so little groudnedness, and I found that most of the tantra teachers I met were also wet on themselves (so to speak). Very little chance of that kind of message making into mainstream culture--very little bridge building ability there....mostly a preaching to the choir (as so much of these new age teachings can become).

 

Adam Elenbaas

Thanks Adam

I appreciate the thoughful response!

Thanks Adam

I appreciate the thoughful response!

cayenne and coffee?

 

That's cool to know! Good piece of info to have--I recently spoke to Chris Kilham who also mentioned coffee (like the real deal coffee) being healthy for the prostate--he's the 'medicine hunter' guy who writes for RS sometimes. You know his work? I take one small shot of espresso in the mornings right now to see how it feels dialoging with my system...you have thoughts on coffee Drew? 

 

Adam Elenbaas

What if we'd dare to change the Western meta-narrative...

(out of love for everything/everyone)...and re-discover the Mysteries repressed by the "authorities"...? Any mystic - if s/he dares to dive deep enough in the ecstatic heart - ...ends re-membering sooner or later...

Then it was as if I suddenly saw
the secret beauty of their hearts,
the depths of their hearts where neither sin nor desire
nor self-knowledge can reach,
the core of their reality, the person that each one is
in God’s eyes.

If only they could see themselves as they really are.
If only we could see each other that way all the time,
there would be no more war,
no more hatred, no more cruelty, no more greed…

I suppose the big problem would be
that we would fall down and worship each other.

Thomas Merton

(problem...?)

***

' Imagine an alternative Christ whose message of love and redemption is conveyed, not by a story of heroic self-sacrifice and martyrdom, but by the passionate love between Man and Woman, The Perfected Couple as Religion, A Mystico-Erotica as its most sacred scripture. As Krishna proclaimed of Himself in his Song of God, “I am the passion in beings that is attuned to (Sanathana) Dharma.”

A rare kind of sex in which desire shudders throughout the body in myriad crescendos of awe heat bliss rendering all bodiless religions and myopic sexologies vestigial to an age on the wane that had become dedicated to exacting the truest of confessions from a shadow.

How so?

Far beyond the thrall of the teenaged awakening Nature has hidden in us numerous rare and mysterious erotic reflexes and transformative puberties (except for “Kundalini”, completely unknown to modern times- did we really believe we had discovered everything there is about the erotic universe?) the fleshy basis of all spiritual yearning that only a ever-deeper passion might awaken:

Shuddering genital reversals vajroli mudra, shakti chalani, that emerge in meditative depths or only after the second hour of embrace, spinal surges Kundalini shakti,davvening, Quakering, Shakering, zikr-ing, holy ghosting, involving perhaps twenty years novitiates of sublimative maturation, excessively devotional surrenders requiring an ease with tears at the thought of it all, and even more distant throat- choking pharyngeal hypoglossal arousal khecari mudra, soaring into consummate pineal emissions soma-rasa, nectar of the Gods, inebriating the inmost soul with breathless beauties everywhere, perhaps a dozen lifetimes away.

In a different economy of bodies and pleasures we might call these awakenings postgenital puberties as in the ancient name for Yoga:

“shamanica medra” “the going-beyond-genital-awakenings”

-but beyond into what?

Always oscillating, Krishna worships Radha worships Krishna man worships woman worships man thus becoming god, becoming goddess from the inside out molting their human skins born out of their arduous longing for this other, the beloved, the ache of it all endured, this life into That into this into That, a weaving maturing of souls verging on oneness, circling auguring ever-deeper into the Source of incarnation itself, close and even closer winding toward the vertiginous center everything quickening the hopes and fears of each lover there ever was or will be.

The awe of creation, the power of it, life itself.

Immortality inward outward the other puberties endlessly beyond words English or Sanskrit to this edge where Happening itself happens this miracle then this, in which we guide word choice action toward that purr in your voice that breaks into sighs hand gripped onto your pelvis breaking free no end can be seen.

The romantic narrative begins easily: Your eyes, my wonder, your lips, my hunger, Your wisdom, my mystery. I love you till death do us yes and yes again yes yes the only word I know that dusky taste of your interior thigh my forever and ever. I will never leave you for where else is there to go? '...

Stuart Sovatsky, "Your Perfect Lips.A Spiritual-Erotic Memoir"

 

in similar resonance: it's worth to check the chapter on "n/om sex", in "The Bushman Way of Tracking God", Bradford Keeney.

"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson

 

Wow, this explains a lot, it really helps with what I'm doing.

Ok, so here is my story. I've been addicted to orgasms since I was a child. I am now 31 years old, so it has been over 20 years since I've first embarked into orgasm indulgence. I don't think I was molested, but I was around kids my age and we liked to experiment. In my teens I used to masturbate sometimes up to 16 times a day. I'm an intelligent man and now have a Masters in Business Administration. However, I always struggled with attention and memory. The only reason why I was able to get my degrees and get a good career in IT was because I am VERY intelligent. However, I always wondered if I could have done better, and I always felt I could have achieved a lot more than I have. I was addicted to marijuana a lot, but fortunately didn't delve into other hard drugs because I was scared. But sex was always my drug of choice, even after quitting marijuana and alcohol, orgasms was a daily thing. I would at least orgasm once a day, on average it would be 2 or 3 times a day. After reading about Ojas and other oriental and judaic beliefs about orgasms, I began to think that my problem might have been my depletion of vitality through ejaculation. The most I have gone without masturbating was 7 days, and that was due to surgery. So orgasms has been a regular thing. I never thought it was this bad, but after reading the accounts of those who have been sex addicts and their stories of success after becoming completely celibate, I realized I needed to do something good for myself. I have now been celibate for 4 days now (no sex, no masturbation, no orgasms), and so far I feel more energized and more focused. I also feel less anxious. Anxiety has been a big issue for me too. I hope I can keep this going and not give in to a moment of pleasure. I have huge ideals for my future and want to bring my dreams into a reality. I found this article after looking for more information about orgasm addiction. This article has answered my questions about my problem with exactitude. I have Neptune in Sagittarius in the First House squaring my Mars in Pisces in the 4th House. Talk about being seriously addicted to orgasms. This gives me hope that as I deny my desire to orgasm, I will be able to have more motivation and focus into bringing my wildest dreams into reality.

I wasted too much time, money, and energy in the pursuit of sex.  I've been too promiscuous, have had multiple STIs, failed relationships, and spent too much time and money on porn.  I'm tired of that and I long for something bigger than just an orgasm.

Thank you for sharing this

Thank you for sharing this article... I like it a lot and Hope others might like it as well. It’s really helpful for me which I have ever seen.., Thank you so much!!! Don Crowther 3X social