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Mad Pride, Prophets, and the Revival of the Messianic Vision

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In 2007 shortly after I began the research for my book The Spiritual Gift of Madness:The Failure of Psychiatry and the Rise of the Mad Pride Movement,  I was browsing through the forum of The Icarus Project (TIP), the first mad pride organization in America (formed in 2004 almost 35 years after the first mental patients' liberation group), when I came across the following statement by a woman named Serine, "I am a 31 yr [sic] old single mom, and I have BP ["bipolar disorder"] with psychosis. When I go into mania, I have conversations with God and He has told me how He plans to bring together the plan for the ages. Or how he is going to bring about global awareness. And of course it is something that I have to do. Now every time I go into mania, I am consumed by it, when I come out I am ‘normal' but still believe it. I mean what better thing is there to believe than God has chosen you to do an earthly mission for Him. Anybody else out there in the same boat? What do they call it. Grandious [sic] delusions?"

I was surprised to find such a candid statement. Instead of posting an online response I wrote to her privately. I told her I was an anti-Establishment psychologist and that I thought that she was right, that God did have a mission for her, that He did intend for her to play an important role in the salvation of humanity. I told her not to allow the psychiatrists to talk her out of this feeling, that it was a sign of a prophetic calling.  She did not believe I was a psychologist.  She asked me if I had bipolar disorder. I understood that from her frame of reference -- influenced by the psychiatric narrative -- my statements meant I had to be mentally ill. Who but a "schizophrenic" or "bipolar" would agree with her that it was possible to realize the Kingdom of God on earth, and that it was her mission, our mission, to help God do this? In actuality I had never been in a loony-bin, I just had a natural interest in spirituality, and read avidly on the topic -- particularly the writing of messianic mystics.

Sri Aurobindo, the great philosopher yogi, was able to most persuasively describe the messianic-redemptive ideal: "The ascent of man into heaven is not the key, but rather his ascent here into the spirit and the descent also of the spirit into his normal humanity and the transformation of this earthly nature." This, and not "some post-mortem salvation,"Aurobindo tells us, is "the new birth" for which humanity waits as "the crowning movement" of its "long, obscure and painful history." Society will  be based on a sense of the unity of humanity. "There [will be] a growing inner unity with others. Not only to see the Divine in oneself, but to see and find the Divine in all . . . is the complete law of the spiritual being. . . . Therefore too is a growing inner unity with others. . . . [Man] will seek not only his own freedom, but the freedom of all, not only his own perfection, but the perfection of all" (Farber, p374).

A society in which each person is guided by an intuition of unity would be a harmonious society.  In Sri Aurobindo's epic poem Savitri he calls this messianic state the union of heaven and earth, the marriage of the eternal bridegroom with the eternal bride. It is the victory of love, the conquest of death.

There are 3 salient messianic traits: the sense that one has been given a divine mission; the awareness that the world is still under the reign of evil or Ignorance, and most important one is inspired by a vision of the promised land. Serine had them all. She was a prospective messiah. John Weir Perry, the author and Jungian psychiatrist, described the messianic vision. "Almost always within acute psychosis lies a messianic vision of a new world order." This is characterized by a sense of unity, of oneness. "The vision of oneness is expressed in the messianic ideation, along with the recognition that the world is going to be marked by a style of living emphasizing equality and tolerance, harmony and love. This hope is almost universally seen in persons in the acute [psychotic] episode" (Farber, p. 375).

She was a bit mad then but that's precisely the point. Her understanding was impressive. Because unlike me she had not read the mystics. She lived in a tiny town in Northwestern Canada.

Serine's wrote eloquently of her vision, "I was being told to gather earth children, and all that, there was many people around who were in on the conversation, we were speaking telepathically, as they were in different countries, and spread all over North America. I know all this, but I do not know what my role is. Jesus is coming to establish his kingdom, and I think there will be a huge awakening. I think that we will no longer feel pain, and no longer feel any evil thought, or disappointment, we will be able to speak to all things...." The idea of communicating telepathically symbolizes overcoming of barriers (e.g. different languages) to the unity of humanity.  

She wrote,"Do you know only 15% of humanity have a roof over their head, food, clothing, and a violence free life? What we should be doing is to free our people from the tragedies of the world.  Jesus' victory was partial. He did not defeat Satan on earth."  So Satan was not a purely supernatural force. The term "Satan" signified for Serine all those persons and principalities which perpetuated inequality and domination. She did not mention the impending environmental catastrophes though.

Her experiences of the divine constellated complementary experiences of the demonic-these terrified her.  The demonic is a reality, otherwise our leaders would not be oblivious to the effects of global warming, of deep oil drilling, of nuclear power. Pulitzer Prize winning former New York Times journalist Chris Hedges writes, "We face a terrible political truth. Those who hold power will not act with the urgency required to protect human life and the ecosystem. Decisions about the fate of the planet . . . are in the hands of moral and intellectual trolls . . . " (Farber, 2012, p.387).

Although there were a few others on TIP forum who told Serine they had similar messianic feelings, most warned her to avoid such feelings -- that was what their psychiatrists had warned them to do. I was the only person trying to present her with a messianic perspective that valorized her experiences. But I was on the other side of the continent. She was seeing a psychiatrist to appease her mother. She was still traumatized from her divorce from her husband. She worried that no one would want someone "mentally ill" like her. The mental health system was the only organization offering to help her allay her anxieties. Evidently she succumbed to them. When I talked to her again in 2011, 4 years after our first exchange, she no longer believed in Christ or  in God.

I had not fully developed my thesis for the book when I wrote Serine but I had a basic outline: From the ranks of the mad would come those messianic prophets who would be the catalysts for a messianic transformation. The book itself would be half commentary and half interviews. I was encouraged by the birth of the Mad Pride movement with the formation of the Icarus Project in 2004. Mad Pride had a distinctive emphasis that distinguished it from the mental patients' liberation movement formed in 1970 -- it changed its name in the 1980s  to "psychiatric survivors' movement." 

By 2007 I had become discouraged by the direction of the psychiatric survivors' movement -- Bush was starting wars, jingoism was at its height and global warming kept getting worse.  MindFreedom -- the largest psychiatric survivors organization in the US -- had become focused on battling the psychiatric system -- a battle that it could not win once the American Psychiatric Association had merged with the pharmaceutical industry, a process that was irreversible by the 1990s. I was frustrated because the mad were so spiritual, yet the movement itself was thoroughly secular. Furthermore, although I agreed with Mind Freedom's critique of biopsychiatry and the destructiveness of psychiatric drugs, its website did not encourage creativity let alone  the spirituality of its members.

I had just belatedly discovered The Icarus Project ("TIP," as it was called) and was inspired. At this point TIP was new but it was in the bloom of its original inspiration. Although I disagreed with Sascha DuBrul's praise of psychiatric drugs, I  thought he would grow beyond that. All in all Mind Freedom and TIP complemented each other. The weaknesses of one were the strengths of the other, and vice versa. TIP's Mission statement written by its two co-founders, Sascha DuBrul and Ashley McNamara, was excellent: "We are a website community, a support network of local and campus groups . . . created by and for people living with dangerous gifts that are commonly diagnosed and labeled as ‘mental illnesses'. We believe we have mad gifts to be cultivated and taken care of, rather than diseases or disorders to be suppressed or eliminated. By joining together as individuals and as a community, the intertwined threads of madness, creativity, and collaboration can inspire hope and transformation in an oppressive and damaged world." Note the beautiful  messianic sentiment: Because of their "mad gifts" the mad could inspire transformation in the world.

Ashley (now "Jacks") McNamara wrote brilliant essays blending social criticism and mysticism -- most importantly she repeatedly suggested that madness was redemptive. By the time I completed my book it conveyed the genius and limits of both movements -- the psychiatric survivors' movement and the Mad Pride movement. And I argued for my own  messianic-redemptive perspective. The book included an interview with Sascha Dubrul, and  David Oaks who had been active in the mental patients' liberation movement since his breakdowns in Harvard in the late 1970s and was the founder and leader of the largest psychiatric suurvivors' rights movement in the world (MindFreedom International), an organization he built up from scratch.

But after my book was out I became disillusioned again. TIP had changed. Sascha had an unexpected crisis -- after that he abandoned the "mad gifts" theme and he repudiated messianic change. TIP had become less poetic. Sascha said Mad Pride should be about "healing." We debated this in my book. I said healing oneself was not a grand enough goal to inspire people.

I stated in the book: "The messianic consciousness typically appears spontaneously in the experience of madness. But so far it has not been fully and consciously affirmed as a foundation for any Mad Pride organization." That's a tragedy.  If we were living in other times, it would not matter but we were living in what could be the last decades for humanity on earth. Now is the time to rouse the messianic dreams buried in the depths of the psyche in the service of salvation, of the great leap forward.  Paul Levy is an author, philosopher, spiritual educator, public speaker and former mental patient. He was one of the six former patients I interviewed. Like me he wants to change the Zeitgeist. He is a powerful catalyst of messianic transformation.

He wrote, "Catastrophe can only be avoided if enough people wake up to what is being revealed to us as we act out the unconscious destructively, and then connect and cooperate with each other in new ways so as to creatively de-activate, assimilate, and transform the potentially deleterious effects of the activated daemon" (Levy, Dispelling Wetiko, Ch.11, "Archetypal Psycho-History").

The future rushing towards us requires that we face the catastrophic and the messianic. But the advent of the catastrophic means we can no longer delay making a choice. The future is like Schrodinger's cat -- we don't know yet if the future will manifest the reality of paradise or the reality of the destruction of the species. "The present-day manifestation of the daemonic is an archetypal expression of the potentially catastrophic upheavals that accompany the great transitions from one age to the next. As thinking, reflective, conscious human beings, we can no longer deny the dark stirrings of the unconscious as it plays itself out ever more conspicuously on the world stage" (Ibid).

Levy knows that the solution must be spiritual and political, "This is an historic time, a time when the gods of the unconscious are transforming. We are living in a time that the Greeks called the Kairos-the right moment-for a ‘metamorphosis of the gods,' that is, a transformation in and of the collective unconscious itself. The peculiarity of our time, which is certainly not of our conscious choosing, is that the timeless unconscious within us is transforming itself in unprecedented, dramatic ways. Coming generations, if there are to be any, will undoubtedly appreciate this monumental transformation" (Ibid).

Judged by ordinary standards TIP had made extraordinary progress -- not only did they have web forums but they had chapters springing up all over. But these are not ordinary times. We don't know if there will be any "coming generations." TIP was creating an alternative support network for mad people, alternative communities -- it offered alternative healing modalities.

But what about its broader goals?  What about "mad gifts" enabling mad people to transform the world.? If we cannot save the planet from being destroyed does anything else matter?

In my book I wrote: "I want to see the Mad Pride movement become a catalyst for an epochal spiritual transformation of humanity. I believe the mad need a vast vision and an imposing sense of their own power in order to motivate them to overcome the obstacles that have been placed in their path by Psychiatry, to give them the courage to believe there can be a resolution to the problems of the world that impinge so acutely upon their psyches. ..."

In her 1991 book The Loony Bin Trip, Kate Millett astutely asks, "But what if there were something on the other side of crazy, what if across that line there was a certain understanding, a special knowledge? Don't you remember so many times during it, telling yourself, swearing, that you would never forget what you saw and learned, precious enough to justify what you suffered? And didn't I then repudiate every vision -- didn't I even disparage the knowledge I had last time, trample it underfoot in my haste to rejoin the sane and the sane-makers, the shrinks and the family" (Farber, p 25)? (Kate wrote the Foreword to my new book.) Kate had put her finger on the problem: Messianism is itself so close to madness, it lies so far beyond the boundaries of consensus reality that even some of the mad prefer to avoid it.

I want Mad Pride to validate the messianic feelings of the mad -- I want Mad Pride to affirm its messianic function, its sociobiological contribution to the species. I want it
to empower people like Serine. How can we help people like Serine to hold on to her sense of  messianic mission? What else is Mad Pride for? We need an organization that can train people to be messiahs.

I expected to debate my thesis with Mad Pride leaders.  But the leaders of the mad movement were not interested, except for Sascha. They did not even review my book. But there are hundreds maybe thousands of mad people out there with messianic aspirations -- they contact me when I go on the radio.

Vaclav Havel said in 1991, "Without a global revolution in the sphere of human consciousness, nothing will change for the better and the catastrophe towards which this world is headed will be unavoidable."

I see Mad Pride as a force that will empower and inspire many of the mad (even just a few hundred persons could make a difference) to be catalysts for a new Great Awakening which could be the first major step towards ushering in the Kingdom of heaven on earth, thus saving humanity and our sacred mother earth from destruction.


References

Morris Abrams, Natural Supernaturalism (Norton and Co., 1971).
Anton Boisen The Exploration of the Inner World: Study of Mental Disorder and Religious Experience (Willett, Clark and Company, 1936).
Anton Boisen, Out of the Depths (Harper Brothers, 1960).
Peter Breggin, Toxic Psychiatry (St Martin's Press, 1991).
Donald Dayton, Discovering an Evangelical Heritage (Harper and Row, 1976).
Seth Farber, The Spiritual Gift of Madness: The Failure of Psychiatry and the Rise of the Mad Pride Movement (Inner Traditions, 2012).
Seth Farber, Madness, Heresy and the Rumor of Angels: The Revolt against the Mental Health System (Open Court, 1993).
R D Laing, The Politics of Experience (Pantheon, 1967).
Erwin Laszlo and Jude Currivan, 2008 Cosmos: A CoCreators Guide (Hay House, 2008).
Paul Levy, The Madness of George W. Bush (AuthorHouse, 2006).
Paul Levy, The Dispelling of Wetiko (Nortyh Atlantic, 2012).
Linda J Morrison, Talking Back to Psychiatry  (Routledge, 2005).
H.Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America (Harper and Row, 1937).
Thomas Szasz, The Myth of Mental lllness (Harper and Row, 1961).
Thomas Szasz, The Manufacture of Madness (Dell, 1970).
Robert Whitaker, Anatomy of an Epidemic (Crown Pubishers, 2010).

Image by peter2012, courtesy of Creative Commons license.


Comments

I'm curious

Why post this here, and why now? And here is the rub, messianic? Is this the only term you can come up with to describe this condition? Is that because the real messianic mess we are in is some how redeemable? I agree that there is a madness here, that has been reworked to fit a psychological profile, as it were.And there are people that at certain times become something like a messianic, however I also think that there is a difference in the types of manifestations of this phenomena involved.So we are talking a very complex situation here, and the situation described above with this woman is only one example of a unique individual no matter how she fits some simple profile.

In fact there is something too pat here about how she was persuaded to not believe in her, ah, messianic mission.First of all are we saying that there is some kind of other process in mind in how to bring these individuals into some kind of world force for good? I doubt it.On the other hand we don't want them to be given anti-visionary drugs and counceling and therapy to given them back to society all cured and ready to become a perfect consumer again.Some how there has to be another path is the thrust here, but who has really thought this out, there is no community for world savers, there is only what created them to become like this in the beginning.It seems to me we are a far way off from creating an environment where "messianic" or people with some psychic experience that manifests as messianic because it has no other way to translate in our current psychological mental landscape.

We speak of vision, but in the past messianic more often then not is connected to real religious fanaticism, and not some innocent person that goes through some sort of analogous psychic transformation that has to take on a messianic form because this in the only subtext that a person that has been raised in a limited life script can allow what they really saw to translate, and again we are caught in a conditioned reflex, that may or may not be able to work through the layers of programing and cultural world view.We are talking gestalt are we not?or are we talking some type of new age notions of indigo children.Revival of Messianic vision? what prey tell is that? some woman that is afraid that the world is not a safe place for her children?

Response by SF

Wildthing, Some of your questions I don't understand. Some of your assertions I disagree with. However I think your second paragraph is very clear, and to the point.You write."First of all are we saying that there is some kind of other process in mind in how to bring these individuals into some kind of world force for good?"    Yes, that's why I wrote the article. And BTW you seem to have forgotten that it  is not people with the messianic dreams who are the problem. It is those who subscribe to the consensually validated delusional system known as "reality." Then you answer your question,"I doubt it." You can doubt it and I can doubt it (my doubt is that we won't be able to defeat the forces of evil and Ignorance that rule the planet--i.e.,the corporations and politicians they own, which means both parties) but the survival of humanity depends upon it. So we have no alternative but to suspend our doubts. . Anyway I address your objections in my book in greater detail. THe Spiritual Gift of Madness.That's at http://www.amazon.com/The-Spiritual-Gift-Madness-Psychiatry/dp/159477448...

questions

Well, obviously you are not going to elaborate, or even try to understand my questions that you don't understand, but you are suppose to be the one that groks madness and its revolutionary messianic vision, so I was attempting to see if you would actually be able to go into this in not the usual way.Which is my point that not all points are understood in the usual way, hence madness the gift as you call it.So I now understand this is yet another book that the people that look at all this from some distance, not really a primer for crazy people that are not understood, as we would not be mad if we were understood by the people that look on from a safe distance, and write another theoretical idealized view of madness almost as if we have arrived at the place where mad visionaries are like "noble savages" if only we could channel that and  about how great it would be if we could use all that madness to make a better world.Good luck with all that.

spiritual and/or religious problems

are a new diagnostic in the DSM IV. Psychiatry and Psychology in America are for the most part Freudian based and thus spiritual phenomenon is dismissed and behavior codified according to a more scientific, behavioral and biological paradigm. The new diagnostic mentioned above is not taken seriously. Conditions one might see listed under this diagnostic are "shamanic initiatory crisis, psychic phenomenon, poltergeists, contact with extra terrestrials, mystical states, etc." Typically the aforementioned in America are dismissed as delusional states. One can of course speak with a Jungian and get a totally different spin on things, however this sort of therapy is not available in the institutionalized psychiatric system. Jung himself suffered from bouts of "psychosis" and major depressions. He had spirit guides and daimons in both dreaming and waking life. Many seers (clairvoyants, precogs, psychics, visionaries, etc.) in history are noted to suffer from major depression. Major depression is not uncommonly co morbid with bouts of psychosis. Why this now? I think we are shifting into a more spiritual realm and there is a literal battle between light and dark going on. Speaking from personal experience in the last 2 years the amount of dreams I have had with winged beings from both sides of the war, along with animal guides and in waking life strange synchronicities, paranormal experiences such as poltergeists, visions of orbs and quite certainly telepathic communications with others is a personal indicator of movement away from the physical towards the meta. The language surrounding disorders though people do suffer and some need to be medicated, is overly clinical and not geared towards this current shift. When I first stared going through this change I know for myself I have no psychiatric history and when trying to talk to someone about all of these changes was given some kind of a label, which I know is absurd. I think it is important for people in the psych community to start contemplating change surrounding language and treatment. Each individual is just that, an individual. Just because someone is labeled as something doesn't make their visions any less valid. There are of course people who suffer from delusions but not everyone who has visions is delusional which the system currently presumes.

hey croc D

good stuff, I grok you, my perspective on this, having gone through a "shamanic break" I like to call it, many years ago, when I was making myself into a voyant.

Creative Maladjustment Week

Thanks for provocative passionate post Seth. I am David Oaks, director of MindFreedom.

In terms of creativity, note our launch of Creative Maladjustment Week, July 7 to 14. This is on our MindFreedom web site... At same time Seth said we forgot about creativity. But further, this is part of Martin Luther King's very spiritually informed global vision of an International Association for the Advancement of Creative Maladjustment (Google that phrase).

By the way, last week I was at an invitational strategy gathering at Esalen to help revive Dick Price's vision of supporting deep change in mental health. Personally I was browsing Jeffrey Kripal's book on Esalen (Religion of No Religion) and thus - for those who may also have done so - some may understand why at the first chance I bought Life Divine by Sri Aurobindo and it is next to me here.

About the label secular: no one perspective captures the flag at MFI, but we have long affirmed the role of spirituality many of our members seek. I hope folks will see the potential and necessity of MLK's IAACM, and join Patch Adams in helping to lead this.

Thanks again.

In support, David    

PS No space between Mind and Freedom in terms of both spelling and metaphor.

Creative Maladjustment Week

Great idea, IMO it's really political, creative, but I would not call it spiritual.  Dr. Patch Adams typical genre stuff in a different context.

I hope it makes an impact for our cause.

 

 

Responses

David Oaks is one of the 6 heroes profiled in my book on Mad Pride, even though I sometimes, in the past at least, disagreed with him--there is a chapter on him, mostly in his own words, that covers his life story and ideas from his days at Harvard (late 70s) to the present. There is also a chapter on the extraordinary Hunger Strike David organized against the APA several years ago. I qualified the statement above with "in the past" because it seems an alliance between the "new age" and Mad Pride is emerging and as Carl Jung said "When 2 individuals {or groups]interact, like chemicals both are transformed." I dedicated my book to Sri Aurobindo who wrote The Life Divine which David bought--Aurobindo provides a modern philosophical foundation and justification for the revival of the messianic vision. Both Dick Price and Michael Murphy(founder of Esalen) were life-long students of the work of Sri Aurobindo. Speaking of the Hunger Strike although I agree with crocadiledunnD's eloquent and brilliant post I do want to clarify one matter. He says "some need to be medicated"---this is not as simple as it appears. The "medications" that patients  are given are as problematic as the terminology Crocadile and I object to.  They are poison. The worst of the poisons is the stuff given to "psychotics"(i.e., shamans, prophets etc) are the "anti-psychotics." They are brain-damaging and mind-disabling drugs.If "patients" were just put on them temporarily it would not be so bad but that's not what happens. They are told they have an incurable disease like diabetes and they need to take them forever. I urge people to read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.During the Hunger Strike David managed to get the APA to admit--they have no evidence of any biochemical imbalance. That's on p77 of my book or on MindFreedom website. One should get off these drugs as soon as possible, but gradually because they are addictive. The evidence shows that the drugs cause chronic physical and mental problems absent in those who withdraw gradually from" anti-psychotics." SSRis cause other problems. There are lots of resources on getting off the "medications." Wildthing if you want to phone me and explain your objection to what I wrote about the messianic I'll listen. But I'm not going to say your first post is not too ambiguous for me to want to try to keep reading it over in an effort to figure out why you seem so irritated.  My contact info and books are at www.sethHfarber.com  SF

re: medication

I concur. When I said medication, I should have specified that I am a supporter of natural alternatives. Was on a mild dose of haldol for a week of my life and what a terrible week that was. Will check out your book. Thanks for writing the article.

wake up dude(tte)

wake up dude(tte), since all this ayahuasca shaman stuff started, censorship has increased not decreased. 15THINGS YOU SHOULD GIVE UP TO BE HAPPY : 1. your need to always be right 2. give up your need for control 3. give up on blame 4. give up your self defeating self-talk 5. give up your limiting beliefs 6. give up complaining 7. give up the luxury of criticism 8. give up your need to impress others 9. give up your resistance to change. 10. give up labels 11. give up your fears 12.give up excuses 13. give up the past 14. give up attachment 15. give up living your life to others expectations supposedly this is about healing the earth but all i'm seeing is a bunch of elitist people and stuff like this for everyone else even if they are trying to help, who are expected to give up sex and thats the only way they can be considered good >>> Girl make some feet Tea.flv Don't worship any diety that requires your Abuse... i'm sorry, this is idiotic, this is not shamanism, its just hurtful to the spirit, and its hugely commercial, its just a long series of dumb videos, unbind if thats how its affecting your consciousness outside of when you are on it ide say thats a bad effect, you want everyone to help in the same way as you but you know what we are different so stop trying to make everyone fit into your thing, theres other ways  all i see it doing is sucking creativity from the world, where is the new stories, the new spiritual ideas? you guys dont share enough you just give the same story, the same drawing over and over,.. there used tobe so many trip reports out and so much good discussion now its all censored, i try to put my stuff up on sites that are supposedly hippy and it gets deleted and i get banned, that doesnt seem like working together it seems like jealousy, im surprised you all are so immature i have no problem with ayahuasca shamans as long as they are honestly letting there be free spiritual growth, if they can't handle it coming from other sources, and its not even like its to attack them, its to bring more ideas and make there be more good in the world, then i can't be down with it, thats just trying to have a monopoly, other people have ideas and ways, its not evil to be different we all want to help the planet and consciousness and make beautiful things

insanity or spiritual visions

For many people who grew up in the 1960's experimenting with psychedelics, mind altering drugs, introduced a new way of viewing the world. Much on this site goes into the positive aspects of how drugs can assist people. Of course, there is a downside to drugs as well and potentially very harmful effects. These drugs may have opened up new parts of the brain that are similar to various types of "mental illness" like hearing voices, hallucinations, etc. When one cannot function in the world, is delusional to the point of not able to communicate with others, and is harming one's self or others, these behaviors need to be addressed through the mental health community. The aspect of your article that is both intriguing and open-minded is the view that mind is greater that the conventional ideas of a rational man in the western world modality and how these visionary experiences can be viewed positively. We can read stories of saints, yogis, prophets, shamans etc. throughout history that have had visionary experiences that are regarded as both profound and illuminating. Much of the studies being conducted by science is finding new information about the mind, the brain and consciousness. Visionary experience in one's life can be a very powerful influence on how one acts in the world. Speaking of my own journey, meditation, exercise, and a spiritual path without any drugs is the best for me. At the same time, within the buddhist tradition I practice, visionary experience is still important and yet not something that one emphasizes. For some eastern cultures, visionary experiences are regarded as normal, which is very different from western cultures except of course indigenous peoples. If you are interested in reading about a true master and his visions: http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Mirror-Visionary-Autobiography-Tibetan/dp/96...

good response

hi Seth, i posted a link to your article on TIP, and someone replied. i thought it was a good note of irony, as you proclaim the importance of inspiring people through this madness reframing- "I don't know how helpful or inspiring it is to have someone who wrote about TIP's existence in 2007- largely from the perspective of an outsider- to be standing on the sidelines, shrugging his shoulders and publicly proclaiming 'you ain't what you used to be'."

wondering your thoughts on that?

http://theicarusproject.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28821

How does depression

fit into this messianic vision, does this book cover this area of mental health? I'm defeated by this state in every way. Yet the complete acceptance and the resulting dropping out of everything seems to have a level of depth to it. For so many years I suffered the expectation of some transformation around the corner, some solution that would allow me to achieve stuff in life. Now I know there is not a shit show that I'll ever be a productive member of society, because it is not in my nature to sustain enthusiasm, focus or passion. Now I'm off all of their poison pills and not trying to live up to others expectations. My experience is of being very grounded and detatched from divinity/visions/psychic experience. 

Delusion does not equal prophecy

As someone who is closely involved with a bipolar person on a daily basis, I'm rather appalled by the idea of encouraging someone like Serine to further her descent into madness and her personalized divergent reality.

God with a capital G doesn't exist and Jesus is not coming back. Sorry to be blunt but hey, that's objective reality as far as I can tell.

What positive result could possibly come from her believing in this delusion? I can think of a lot of potentially negative results, such as her not paying attention to her real life responsibilities like her children. Her children will suffer if she thinks that the immediate present is irrelevant with Jesus right around the corner.

I'm all for people with mental illness being empowered to take care of themselves and try to live a normal life, but I don't see how encouraging an extreme delusional state of mind and delusional perception of reality is going to help someone be empowered to survive in the real world...

Responses

Let me address the most important and strangest comment first--Tristan's. Are you really unaware that I do not share your worldview? I believe I was confirming Serine's intuitive mind. But Tristan if you don't believe in Spirit why do you come to a website where the whole point is to expand Spirit--or God? I don't think Serine was deluded. I think her statement could only become reality insofar as it is validated by others. I believe without doubt that God does have a mission for her---I don't care if those who subscribe to the consensually validated delusional system like you call it delusional or psychotic. You call this air conditioned nightmare "reality," and you want people to adjust to it. And you oblivious to global warming or think it's a left-wing plot. And Serine took very good care of her child. She was living with her mother though at that time.

Unfortunately until there are others that transfer their allegiance from those who speak demeaning psychobabble like Tristan does wth all due respect to the mad messiahs like Serine people like her will just give up--as she did--and become normal like you. But you know even on the immediate practical level you are wrong. I have a client a 75 year old woman who tells me every week (we have a half hour session on the phone once a week) that she communicates with her 50 year old boyfriend 3000 miles away daily through telepathy. She says,she is persecuted by the Church tht she left and she is going to give birth to the Messiah as soon as her boyfriend flies down to her halfway house to get her out.. She's 65 years old, divorced and her children are all rich. Her children tell her over and over that she is "mentally ill." And her previous shrink told her that. And it crushes the poor woman's spirit. Now I would not bet that she's going to give birth to the Messiah but the fact that I don't treat her like she's psychotic is tremendously uplifting and therapeutic for her. So she tells me. So sometimes I tll a little white lie.Why do her children have to keep demeaning her?. Yet Tristan you would destroy someone like her--with your "reality."

My thoughts are the guy from TIP is superficial. I'm talking about saving the world. And he's unwilling to learn anything from others. I've been working with mad people for over 25 years. The concern for saving the world is not even on his horizon. I don't shrug my shoulders. I said I appreciate what TIP has done. I just think we don't need a group to do what they did not do.

 Highfeather I appreciate most of what you say except I have to take exception to "When one cannot function in the world, is delusional to the point of not able to communicate with others, and is harming one's self or others, these behaviors need to be addressed through the mental health community." The radical British psychiatrist R D Laing said, For someone who is sensitive or frazzled and very vulnerable to put themselves in a psychiatric ward looking for help is like the Aztec Indians running into the mouths of the Spanish cannon hoping for deliverance." The mental death "community" are a bunch of pimps for the drug companies--not good drugs, very bad--see my post and Crocadile DunnD's. Plus they're like Tristan--they demean the visionaries of the world.

There are more alternative places arising. You can look at The Icarus Project's website or MINDFREEDOM.org (See above.) See wwwpsychrights.org Read my book The Spiritual Gift of Madness, listed athttp://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=farber+gift . Or you could contact me seth17279@aol.com or my website www.sethHfarber.com

Self-esteem by connecting to reality

Wow, very defensive in your response there Seth. And it's kind of hilarious because if you knew me, you would understand that I'm the complete opposite of how you are characterizing me, as "demeaning the visionaries of the world."

At any rate, I'm not interested in having petty arguments but I am interested in discussing the context of madness and reality and social normalization. I do believe that there is such a thing as objective reality and that we can confirm that reality, which is the closest that we get to "truth".

However, I won't deny that subjective reality can be very powerful as well. My use of the word delusion is not meant to have a perjorative connotation, but to indicate a person's subjective reality that does not correspond to objective consensus reality. And I don't disagree that playing along with someone's delusions for the sake of helping them maintain self-esteem could be useful. But I think a line should be drawn. If a person's delusions interfere with their ability to function in society, they probably shouldn't be encouraged, if only for the pragmatic reason of needing to survive.

Society is insane in many ways, and I agree that if you conform to society in every way that we're supposed to, you will most likely end up unhealthy and unbalanced. But the issue of whether or not reality is objective is totally separate from that. I'm not saying that objective reality is solely contained within the pages of the DSM. Our maps of reality are quite incomplete. But when you make a claim like "Jesus is coming to establish his kingdom, and there will be a huge awakening" and that propechy doesn't actually occur in objective reality, what's the value of it?

There are many examples in history where an individual's delusion ended up causing damage to other people, such as the Heaven's Gate cult being an obvious example. So I think it's worth questioning delusions rather than blindly encouraging them.

In the case of Serine, or the 75 (65?) year old woman you mentioned, why not take a different approach and encourage them to be empowered in objective reality: to connect with their personal identity and connect to what they can directly experience with their five senses, their relationship with their children, their memories, to build up their self esteem through this kind of experiential empowerment, and might that also work as well to achieve the end result of this person's happiness and stability?

follow up

I agree with what you are saying about the system, But I wonder if R.D. Laing would have thought that allowing people to believe in "messianic vision" was not merely part of the therapy as a means and not an end.In other words of course you cannot tell such people that they are delusional, or maybe you can, depending on a case by case basis.The idea of allowing people to go on in this vein only ultimately feeds on a conditioning that is the cause of such delusion, it's not about Spirit when it comes with religious dogma grafted over Spirit.Herein lays the rub, they really have to believe the real mad rub, where the therapist plays the medium to an almost impossible transfer, to indulge "messianic vision" so as to do a kind of psychic triage.But when to you remove the real cause of all that religious conditioning.At what point do you pull out the poison arrow of erroneous reasoning, that if I am having all this profusion of religious vision, do I have to actually identify with it? How do you do that? Give people a pat on the back and encourage the psychic mess. or do you at the point that you make them realize they are not mad because of having a vision, that they don't have to hang on to it.Please don't get all irritated that I question.I think the title "Revival of Messianic Vision" is not what you really are doing, because if you were there would be people on here telling us about God that you cured.

healthy visions

Seth thank you for this invigorating article. I tend to agree with you, that people with "mad gifts" should be regarded with utmost respect, and uplifted, and these people may hold the keys to positive transformation in society. On the whole I tend to view many workers in the field of Psychiatry as opposing this transformation. For example, I encourage the descent of Serine into madness, and find it to be rather depressing that she eventually gave up the visionary way, "succumbing" to the mental health system, as you suggest, until she no longer believed in messianic visions. At the same time I'm willing to accept that being a visionary may not be a life-long profession. Along these lines I would like to see scholarships, gifts of money, or internships for people to delve deeper into their madness, and explore it. But as a preliminary step, it would suffice to simply eliminate the forcible, oftentimes unwanted, imposition of anti-visionary drugs, which cause many mad people to suffer needlessly, and which poisons the cathartic regimes that they are otherwise leading. Its quite frightening to realize that people may be subject to these medications, against their will. It is literally a battleground being waged in the realms of the mind and body. Though I can hardly find reason to be positive about the aggressive policies of certain mental health treatment providers and mental health treatment facilities, my hope is that mad people who have been subjected to anti-psychotics, re-learn and re-value their gifts, in the process of getting off the drugs. Also, in regards to life inside mental facilities, I think its testimony to the strength of the will and the mind, that many mad people fight the good fight, believe in their delusions and grandiosity, for a while at least, until they come up powerless against the system of doctors, social workers, and nurses in the mental facility. The power of certain mad individuals is quite remarkable, and only through rigorous control over the physical variables, such as medication, rules, etc. is it possible to grind these individuals to a standstill.

thank you

I am feeling hope and relief after reading this, so thank you. I have been alone for the last 6 years, trying to learn how to deal with my husband's "gift", which I have at times felt bordered on insanity or prophecy, but was at a loss as to how to describe it or categorize it or process it. Certain moments have left me feeling scared and yet excited by what he experiences. Until now, I have never read of these movements or this theory that the very things that would get my husband diagnosed as a schizophrenic (or SOMEthing like that, no traditional diagnosis fits him) are the very things that should be nurtured and respected. I know he will never share his "gift" with anyone other than me for fear of being thought of as insane (he is able to hide these parts of himself and live a fairly "normal" life in society as a musician), but knowing these communities and these ideas are out there is a comfort to me and hopefully him. I am a bit saddened by how we have dealt with his "gift" so far...with medication, useless therapy (he hides most things from psychiatrists anyway), and lots of processes and tricks that we've developed between us over the years. I hope to find a way to better was to honor this part of him, but I feel overwhelmed by it. How to do so while continuing the life we have? I don't know.

Atlas2010, Thank you for

Atlas2010, Thank you for your candid disclosures. You are cryptic at times though so I'm not sure exactly what's going on. You and your husband are certainly correct that revealing these things to most psychiatrists would have very adverse effects. R D Laing called shrinks the mind-police and Szasz compared them to the Inquisition --which of course persecuted heretics. I'd like to get a clearer account from you--for one thing despite what Wildthing said I AM interested in reviving the messianic vision. Perhaps you are also--or your husband is. You could email me (seth17279@aol.com) or phone--check my website.(But Wildthing I am not trying to market a new kind of therapy --and thus I am not including testimonials. )

Also Orionblue I agree with you of course--thanks for your cogent comments-- there are other resources If you look a posting or two under my essay there is information about David Oaks' group.Also you can find a discussion of this in my recent book, The Spiritual Gift of Madness - which you can link to on my website, www.sethHfarber.com. It will take you to Amazon. But still the project of reviving the messianic vision is at its beginning, and we are racing against the rising tides--literally.

Let me answer the critics first. Wildthing raises a good point but I really must reply to Tristan first. Tristan, I thought I made it clear that the two cases I gave were different. I should not have brought the second one up because you have confused the two. How many times must I tell you that I do not (and did not) believe Serine was deluded. You keep insisting I was deceiving her for therapeutic purposes. NOT SO. (With the second women I mentioned it was more like that, but it was what she wanted for validation.) Tristan I wrote "I don't think Serine was deluded. I think her statement could only become reality insofar as it is validated by others. I believe without doubt that God does have a mission for her... " From a quantum physical perspective, I am not lying since Schrodinger's cat before it was viewed was in a state where it was both dead and alive.

Tristan you do not understand the "reality" of our times is a delusional system that is validated by the authorities and the hypnotized majority etc You are hypnotized Tristan into believing it has objective reality. I don't believe this reality is in accord with our deepest spiritual yearnings, or with the will of God. So when I read these beautiful words by Serine I realize immediately that she has been called or commissioned by God to change the world. Or as Paul Levy, a former psychotic and author whom I interviewed in my book put it, she can help "change the dream." Of courde she gave up. But those like her in the future can  help to change the Zeitgeist. They cannot do it  by thremselves. THey need support. That is why I am hoping to find people to co-create a new messianic wing of the Mad Pride movement. Because right now those who receive the messianic call usually give it up.

Now Tristan you speak of the danger of deviating from "reality." But you don't speak of the danger of being adjusted to reality. You wandered onto a website where clearly most people agree with me: THe reality of society is a  collective nightmare. Let me urge you to read Paul Levy's work. THis was a man who spents months in a loony bin in his youth. STart by reading my interview with him. It's on his website--if you scroll down and look on the right for my book, THe Spiritual Gift of Madness--www.awakeninthedream.com 

Wildthing and Tristan thought Serine was a dogmatic CHristian To the contrary she said God permeated everything--I did not quote that in full. THat is NOT what fundamentalists say. She also said everyone would be saved, the earth would be saved. Again that's NOT what Evangelicals or born-agains say. She used Christian terms. THat is a valid language. Perhaps you'd prefer Krishna. But I agree with Serine: We can speak different languages and understand each other telepathically.

One final quote from Laing--I forgot to include it:"The well-adjusted bomber pilot may be a greater threat to species survival than the hospitalized schizophrenic deluded that the Bomb is inside him. Our society may itself have become biologically dysfunctional, and some forms of schizophrenic alienation from the alienation of our society may have a sociobiological function that we have not recognized.” This was during the Vietnam war;, there was also an arms race. This was Laing's only statement in which he posited as I am that the mad may be able to save the species. My goal is to take this further. It was written by Laing in The Politics of Experience(1967) in the chapter on schizophrenia. I sugest you read it. Best, Seth seth17279@aol.com www.sethHfarber.com I hope to hear from you, Atlas.

thank you

Thank you Dr. Farber. I'm reading your book and  recommending it to others...

the languge that we use

I did not say that the woman was a fundamentalist christian, however, it depends on each circumstance, and each unique persons way of speaking their truth, this becomes a very complex situation, especially when dealing with a person that can only translate their experience through christian world view.I wonder as Dr. Faber says that these are special times, and reality is not what it seems, that we still speak of such things as messianic vision, if we are not still working through the very problem that causes us to not see madness as gift rather then some kind of curse or some sin of seeing too much.How do we tell somebody that their vision is wonderful when they still cannot speak it beyond christian duality?Oh, this person said that the world would be saved rather then come to an end when Jesus returns.I just don't buy it, saved or destroyed for Jesus, what pray tell is the real difference here?Can Serine see the contradiction? that it is not saved because of some messianic vision, but rather seeing beyond the vision?

OK JLP2020 I call you

OK JLP2020 I call you J. Thank you for your response. Let me explain my friend you cannot mix what I say with the psychobabble you learn from psychiatry. If you do Psychiatry comes out the winner which is why even though I have a PhD and all sorts of credentials I don't work in the public mental death system. You are not a bipolar 1. You do not have a biologically based "mood disorder." These words sound technical to you but they are really psychiatric curses. If you really are a prophet then you would take  your copy of “Manic-Depressive Illness: Bipolar Disorders and Recurrent Depression" by Goodwin and Jamison and throw it on garbage heap--but first tear it up lest some other poor soul picks it up and falls under its spell. If you read my recent book there is a chapter on the hunger strike of David Oaks and others (David had serious accident a week ago so he could use some healing energy http://www.mindfreedom.org/action4oaks). They forced the APA to admit there was no proof there was a biological flaw in the so-called mentally ill. I have been writing about this "flaw" business for 25 years. You do not have a disorder. Thre is nothing wrong with your brain, your mind, your soul. Although St Augustine Calvin, Freud and Goodwin and Jamison would tell you there is some deep flaw, they are wrong. Of ourse as Tom Szasz wrote adjusting to the world can be difficult--but your calling is to change it. First of all you need to get off the psychiatric poisons. It does not sound like you have been on them for years. If you have it's far more difficult, and sometimes cannot be done. Assuming you've been on the psych drugs for 5 yrs or less you need to gradually reduce. I'll email you. Wildthing, I understand you are skeptical if not cynical. But I believe Serine (as well as many other mad people) had a vision of universal salvation. You don't. As to your specific objections I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean. So say what you want on this topic I am not going to respond unless you have what was called "constructive criticism." But thanks for your comments.

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thanks for the professional self-importance

This is what I suspected about Dr. Farber all along, if you don't say what he wants to hear, he just falls back on academic arrogance.I said what I meant, if you still believe that you can redeem people that just have to have a messy-anic vision, ie. Jesus saves by what ever name you want to call it, then we have another cure for madness for you.But Mr. Farber now sounds like a smug self-important academic, that quotes people like R.D. Laing but really doesn't follow what a great mind like Laing represents, he talks the talk, and gullible people think they are hearing what they want to hear.

If psychiatry is the new religion, and the old priests of this religion use drugs, straight jackets and electro-shock torture, then the new priests use a language that lulls "mad people" bipolar or what ever the new label is, into a kind of new agey feel-good rhetoric and line it with a quote by R.D. Laing or Sazaz or Jung or who ever.But if you don't tell Mr. Faber that his ideas are just wonderful, he regresses to a supercilious high school teacher, and goes, tisk tisk, "unless you respond with constructive criticism" bla bla bla.Oh , I'm sorry I did not tell you how just so wonderful your pathetic ideas of "Messianic Vision" are.

Yeah that's the ticket tell people that Jesus saves is a new way to overcome the complete indifference of society.So much for messianic........vision.But I am not worthy of Dr. Faber's grant unifying all-encompassing reVision.But, wait, he has saved "mad people" buy telling them that messianic vision is just all right.But I wonder at what point psychiatry suddenly became in the business of snake oil salesman.Oh, and I forgot, a post or two back there, Dr. Fiber told me that I had a good point, but alas the edge of that point has been wasted on mister constructive criticism, it's pointless to go on, because I am not a messianic mind master.Of course the redeemed snobs all know each other, in theirr maaaaaaaaad vision.Wink, wink!

And by the way Dr. Farbeittome please don't break your pencil in half because of little ole mad me.

Wildthing, I have to read

Wildthing, I have to read your tortured syntax over and over--not THIS one, the one before--to try to understand. You are obsessed with this Christian thing. Were you brought up by fanatical born-agains who whipped you mercilessly? Nobody here is a Christian in that sense. I wrote: "But I believe Serine.. had a vision of universal salvation. You don't." That was carelessly worded, but not incorrect. I meant Wildthing that YOU did not believe Serine had a vision of universal salvation;I did not mean that you did or didn't have such a vision. So I was not accusing you of not being universalistic. But I must correct you. Even though I am not a Christian, in the name of Christianity I have to object to your conflation of Christianity with the American war, guns and Jesus cult.

Sorry JLP for over-reacting. I read The Unquiet Mind by Jamison. She is convinced she has a biological disorder. I don't recall whether she uses the word  "flaw." But she is intent on getting rid of "bipolar disorders" and thus of unwittingly suppressing spiritual growth. David Oaks told me that he now has states that would be regarded as "psychotic" but unlike 30 years ago he feels completely calm when experiencing them. Now that gives you the basis for a completely different understanding of madness.

I would posit that most manic states would not be problematic (except to shrinks and some parents) if the "patient" did not feel overwhelmed by them, and spooked by their unfamiliarity. You say the same thing. What frightened you was your lack of control. This is a metaphor I use in my new book, The Spiritual Gift of Madness www.sethhfarber.com/the_spiritual_gift_of_madness_the_failure_of_psychia.... Joseph Campbell said the mystic and the psychotic were in the same ocean of beatitude, but one was swimming and the other was drowning. I'm not being flippant--I believe that the bipolar state is a "mad gift" (see my essay above) and that the solution to the fear is to teach the "psychotic" to swim in that ocean.The shrink like Jamison wants to keep patients away from the ocean! What a tragedy. Some of my critics here advocate the same solution. Humanity is not sufferring from grandiosity but, to the contrary, from spiritual littleness.

Probably J, you like Jamison because she gives "bipolars" some credit for creativity--as opposed to no credit. You can do better than that. Jamison's agenda is to market the disease and sell the drugs. She was an aritocrat who looked down on the schizophrenic plebs and aspired to the prestige of the MD. (She had an honorary MD.) My solution is to get people to read Bob Whitaker's book,Anatomy of an Epidemic, and learn to swim--and revolt. In most cases that requires getting sleep (like you said)-- and "patients" should have access to sleeping pills (like Valium or Ativan)instead of being put on toxic drugs like lithium or Zyprexa et al.

I would say most "bipolars" are transliminals. (We have research on that) The liminal material(eg mystical prehensions) more easily crosses--- trans---- into awareness. In other societies the transliminal will end up a shaman. Here they end up a chronic bipolar. Thy are dis--abled by the drugs. Anyway my project is to encourage transliminals to become prophets. Certainly many transliminals did become prophets in the past. Please read Paul Levy. Paul spent weeks in loony bins in the 1980s. In Jamison's eyes he would be a bipolar. In my eyes he was a messianic prophet in the making. Now he's an author and spiritual teacher, and doesn't take psych drugs. Fortunately Paul did not listen to Jamison, or her ilk. I interviewed him for my book.  You can read my interview with him on his website. Scroll down and look for the image of my book--there's a 40 page interview. He doesn't take drugs. www.awakeninthedream.com

Sri Aurobindo

"The ascent of man into heaven is not the key, but rather his ascent here into the spirit and the descent also of the spirit into his normal humanity and the transformation of this earthly nature." Wisdom profound... http://www.autoseosystem.com/

Missed Inquiry

"I just had a natural interest in spirituality, and read avidly on the topic -- particularly the writing of messianic mystics." 

What do you think of this:

"If we make decisions based upon limited knowledge, can God not alter our decisions by revelation or a word of knowledge? Saul intended to persecute Christians in Damascus (Acts 9), but then God intervened and gave him knowledge of Himself. This altered his will, and Saul was converted to Christ. God was not aloof that day. He was not helpless in the face of Saul’s “free will.” This raises a serious question: If God could change the heart of Saul by an act of His sovereign will, then why does He not do so with all men? Could He not convert all men to Himself by such a revelation process? After all, the only reason men do not love Jesus Christ is because they do not yet know Him."

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/free-will-versus-...

difference in Authorship

"I just don't buy it, saved or destroyed for Jesus, what pray tell is the real difference here?" If the flesh, which is dying anyway, is destroyed, but the spirit is saved {restored} to its former {or some might say de-potentiated} beauty and power, can you not see improvement? If a child through much travail, chastisement and discipline becomes mature precisly because of his path, is the parent not obligated to rejoice? “What a sublime conception have we here before us! The whole universe, from its remotest star to the things around us, and beneath our feet, is one—one in feeling, in emotion, in expression; one in heart and voice. Nothing is said of evil. Nor is it thought of. It is in the hands of God, who will work out His sovereign purposes in His own good time and way. We have only to listen to the universal harmony, and to see that it moves us to corresponding praise (v. 14).