Keeping Salvia Sacred

It's both unfortunate and infuriating that so many videos regarding Salvia are these retarded trip videos that do nothing to expose people viewing to what Salvia is all about or how it could be used to positive effect beyond "getting high."

In Episode #6 of BLITA, I talk about my most relevant Salvia trips and while I stay away from attributing much spirituality to it I make it clear that this substance is to be taken with respect, and these fools who post these horrid trip vids are mucking things up real bad!

I think that Saliva shouldn't be made illegal, but I do think it should not be made available to anyone under 18, that much is certain. I almost wish there would be some sort of course one could take, a one day class, outlining the proper usages of such a wonderful substance, and such a class would be required to buy it.

I think it is our task to make sure that accurate information about Salvia is spread and WE should be making videos about the proper usage of it to counter all of this seeming propaganda relegating the plant to "just another drug"!!!

Black Light in the Attic Podcast w/Serpicody & Sancho

http://blacklightattic.podomatic.com 

Yes, Salvia should be used only by Boddisatvas in Sacred Temples on the Holy Mountain after a four-day fast and anointing in a sage-filled sweat lodge.

I get so tired of this elitist attitude, although I can relate: In a utopian world, everyone would prepare for ingestion by taking a day of silent reflection before embarking on the Salvia journey. Healthy greens and grains and plenty of water.

To those of you so aghast by the green gills of teenaged visionaries:  How many of you were in a place of ascended spiritual nobility when you first tried pot or acid or lost your virginity?

The wisdom of the elders is not the only kind available. The wisdom gained from a firm slap from a slighted plant spirit can be just as valuable as set and setting.

I'm just grateful that YouTube wasn't there for me when I was young and stupid(er).

I stumbled upon this website and thought you all might have a laugh with the parallels to this thread.

http://www.physics.uwo.ca/ugrad/p021/course_information/bread.html

Friends,

I haven't commented on RS for a good while now - it's good to be back.

It really is very important, I feel, to counter the misinformation on places like YouTube with information on our own experiences of entheogens, whether it be sharing stories of salvia experiences or uploading art that expresses it in another form. Whilst we probably cannot fully counter the tide of idiot videos from people with minimal attention span, the many trickles of output from sensible salvia users from across the world can perhaps eventually make a kind of Amazon river to provide a set of counter-arguments to the meme that 'salvia must be bad'. And these counter-arguments would be based on deeply-held experiences rather than 15 minutes of giggly playtime.

(Bluntly, she won't bring any message to those who don't offer her deep respect...)

I suppose my problem with the YouTube vids is that these people are treating salvia like MJ. If you smoke SD, there is no mild, recreational trip. You can get that by chewing, but smoke it and you are leaving this world for a while. It's best not to try to hold on...

I have to say that even with smoked salvia, I find the visions remarkably easy to integrate. I didn't at first of course, but she moves very fast. I'm a poor student, but she was very insistent. As I've said somewhere else, she moves fast enough to make you god within a day and a lunatic within a week. So even short, intense, smoked voyages can be integrated when one takes a carefully long time to explore them. Sit and think basically. Art helps there too. Trying to put into visual form what is almost impossible to render into visual form is good for the integration process.

For me, I don't necessarily agree that salvia is for everyone. Attitude is the thing more than anything - if there is an attitude of deep respect, then even a mid-strength extract becomes a wonder-voyage, and anyone can feel that wonder with her. If you can't feel that respect, find another teacher... and let us explore her worlds sacredly

With love and joy,

Bruce Rimell

www.salviaspace.net

(and yes, I had this kind of attitude when I was 18...)

I must admit that when I first tried salvia it was not in the spirit of meeting another entity, I was out to get out of my head.

Funnily enough that's exactly what happened. No distinguishing between outside and in. I 'knitted' into my perceptual experience.

The idea of treating plants as entities did come slowly to me. After being 'taught' a few lessons in the basics. Up, down, in and out, how much I can sweat in 3 minutes, I was no closer to realising the sacredness of the experiences.

I think it takes people with guts and determination to proliferate these personalisation memes. When I think of an entity proffering wisdom to my beleaguered ego... all that stuff seems to make more sense.

"The universe is its own magic."  Shunryu Suzuki

I always thought giggling was a great feeling.

We teach them how to maneuver a 1 ton piece of steel at 80 miles/hour on a paved paradise covered in many 1 ton pieces of steel doing the same thing. 

Some things we hold sacred are more dangerous than some things we abuse.  I'm reminded of the Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young song "Teach your children well."

I'm in agreeance with the folks here who stated the importance of stressing to the children that no organism should be abused.  This can seem like an Herculean feat while at the same moment the clothes we wear and the food we eat is a product of abuse. 

I recall my high school days and having an overwhelming feeling in classes that my teachers were complete imbeciles.  We weren't learning anything important was the sword my psyche wielded.  I knew this for certain but I didn't 'know' what I should be learning. 

I learned more through the abuse of entheogens in my teens than I did from my human 'teachers' in high school.  I use the words 'abuse of entheogens' now because of the approach I took to the experiences being revealed.  In essence I thought I had come across a hammer and nails when I discovered these substances, thought I could 'build' something with them, like my 'teachers' thought about me. 

What took years for me to figure out can be shown to a child in mere hours by a compassionaire.  Kids will be kids, explore with them.  Be vulnerable with them.  Allow them to ask the plants for help.  It's my experience the plants are much more capable teachers than we.  So long as us children realize what 'abuse' is.

Thanks for expressing what I attempted to express a little bit up-thread from here with more clarity than I could manage. Bringing the law to the table when it comes to matters of individual growth and rites of passage will never expand possibility, only diminish it.

Once one experiences the sacred, it is difficult to objectively gauge the experience of another in reference to one's own by simple observation. What Youtube trip-videos often show us are apparent bungled attempts to access the sacred by youngsters.

What is easy to miss behind all the manic laughter, ill-advised bravado, and one-upsmanship in these videos is the subtext: Young people, often with seemingly-insufficient guidance or preparation, searching for meaning beyond their spoon-fed educations. They may not have the confidence or sense of self yet to understand what it means to go on a spiritual journey, but have now experienced something that, removed from it's imperfect context, may teach them something towards that end.

What it teaches may be internalized immediately or may be a seed planted in the mind, which can grow once the individual has grown enough to open up to the teaching.

To imply that those who, through fate and/or circumstance, have not received useful training to experience the sacred should not be allowed to experience it is like saying that only those educated in private schools, rather than public, are properly prepared for secondary education.

I stand by my first statement. This is elitism. YouTubers and other newbie-pychonauts are not ruining it for the rest of us - rather, they are imperfectly finding their way. What kind of knowledge or spirituality can be attained if all acts of disrespect, flippancy, and ego-fostering are forcibly removed from experience?

To put it another way, here's a quote from Nathan Myhrvold, former head of Microsoft R&D, in an article about Bill Gates and his creative genius (odd in this context, I know, but it works):

"Lewis and Clark were lost most of the time. If your idea of exploration is to always know where you are and to be inside your zone of competence, you don't do wild new shit. You have to be confused, upset, think you're stupid. If you're not willing to do that, you can't go outside the box."

Of course it is useful to discuss and promote the proper way of approaching the sacred, whatever the channel happens to be. But don't confuse "proper" with "only."

There's lots of good words since I posted above. For me, my attitude isn't about elitism towards psychedelics, absolutely not. It's about using the right tools in the right context, whether you've had training or not. Salvia is not a tool for play, but for exploring, growing, challenging, getting confused and exiting this world. So when I see those videos on YouTube, I get as concerned as I do when I see YouTube videos of people lighting fireworks in their hands.

I have absolutely no desire to see this plant scheduled, as that would just close it off to so many people who haven't heard of it yet. I'd love for the world to know the ebauty of this plant, but I'd also love the world to know about it on its own terms of quiet beauty, not from YouTube. I also find it absolutely ridiculous that people who use salvia would even consider supporting a law against it. No, when I think about it, I find that attitude to be the height of selfishness and hypocrisy.

I also love the explorative nature of children, love the fairy tales of kids lost in the archetypal forest chancing upon a mushroom etc. Beautiful. But I don't love the image of some eejut not even vaguely trying to leave his world or challenge himself, just trying to get high in his living room crapping his video onto those who love this plant and want to see its *wisdom* spread...

Also, I have taken part in online group salvia journeys before. We prepare weeks in advance, and trust me, the visions and experiences are spectacular. I'd love to be a part of this, but maybe we should kick start a forum of our own for this purpose? RS already has loads going on without us adding more. I can add my experience to the pool of how we went about doing an online group journey, but I know jack about setting up online forums etc. Anyone care to volunteer?

With love and joy,

Bruce Rimell

www.salviaspace.net

Oh so many silly youtube videos.

But this one from Kathleen Harrison spells it out nicely.

Kathleen Harrison at the WPF about Salvia

part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brEvQskNgjE

part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnJNPGsWMig

Sometimes I get the impression that the plants, if not treated with respect, pull strings to actually make themselves illegal, or at least hard to find, for those who haven't the presence of mind to engage and build healthy relationships with them.

"I believe it is our responsibility at this point, to stop hiding in our collective corners, playing the "My imagination is better than your imagination" game, and bring our awareness, our wisdom and teaching to the youth who so desperately crave the knowledge."

Thanks again, Ergoat. This point goes a long way toward focusing this discussion.

What is the problem with the YouTube videos in question? Is the problem that Salvia is being disrespected? Is it that those who choose to film themselves are disrespecting themselves by making a mockery out of a potentially sacred experience?

Being the change you wish to see doesn't mean doing the right thing in the comfort of your own home and holding it close and dear like a guarded secret. Let's forget about whether anyone is being an elitist (My apologies for even using that word...Like other unsavory attitudes, we all are guilty of this from time to time; i know i am!) and focus on what effect we can have.

It seems to me from the postings and comments on this site that the RS community is all for changing the War-On-Drugs mentality and proactive problem-solving. Again, I wonder if it would be possible through RS to have a group preparation and group experience with SD, and to do it in the most mindful way we can accomplish this by putting our heads together? We could collaborate on everything from the method of use, the purchase decisions, the development of intention, the preparation of set and setting, the use of a sitter, the recording of the experience, etc, etc, etc. We could even refer, and offer a link to, this collaborative effort in the comment-section of any YouTube videos that show a potential visionary who may be in need of guidance. In this way we would be acting to move the perception and the use of sacred plants into respectful place.

Because, ultimately, do we want to lead the way towards mutual collaboration between sacred plant and person? Or do we want to establish rules and regulations that shut out those who don't think to ask that question?

I felt those fault lines too. Right over the top of my teeth, through my gums on my upper jaw. Watch with what you nourish yourself indeed!

The room split into more than one mind and sat before me, in me, staring and not provoking conversation.

They fought for a while in front, in me.

I slowly calmed them down, like dancing with some angry friends.

How else can you come to terms with yourself?

Can you all smell that?

"The universe is its own magic."  Shunryu Suzuki

Which of us know better?

Do we each decide that on our own?

I'm all for having the discussion, and for putting out the best example that one can. Then, people can evaluate and decide whether they, in turn, know better.

I, by the way, think that I know better. But I know that I don't.

Hi my 23rd eye,

Sorry if I came off as nit-picky or antagonistic. I've been walking the thin line on this thread between respecting and understanding the view that there are proper ways of approaching and preparing for the salvia experience and the nagging thought that to take this stance is elitist.

I do like your idea that the plant can take care of itself, but I also can respect Craig's feeling that the plant should be protected.

Then there are the youtuber's themselves, who probably are not represented in this conversation. If they were, might they (some of them?) be able to change our views about what led them to put videos of their trips online? Would this discussion enlighten them or just come across as more authoritarian sabre-rattling?

Maybe to film the experience is simply one of the first reactions that a kid of our celebrity-worship culture would have to an encounter with the sacred? This act seems to me a reflection of trying to make sense of something to which one has no reference point.

The medium is probably more to fault than the individual if viewers of these videos are unable to find relevance in the experiences of others. To talk one-on-one with the makers of one of these videos would likely have the effect of clearing away the facade of the giggly or chaotic surface images and getting a sense of the value of the actual experience.

But that all depends on if one would approach such a conversation as a sharing of thoughts or as a lecture.

Sorry if I'm getting redundant.  I normally don't do a lot of commenting on RS but Salvia is a rather new and perspective-shattering subject for me, and I'm considering starting a Forum here with the intention of putting our heads together to provide the best example we can come up with in terms of how to approach the whole Salvia experience - from the purchase to the prep to the practice. 

And it is my feeling that all viewpoints, even those of the youtubers, should be sought out and discussed and carefully considered.

I helped Brent McDonald with the New York Times article on Salvia divinorum. While I wasn’t given any credit, I am happy to see a fair story on Salvia by the mega-media. If you found the story interesting, you may enjoy reading the notes from my interview. I posted them to My BLOG.

Peace & Love,
E