Jesus, Marx, and Spiritual Economics

Thousands of people poured through the exit gates of Flushing Meadows. I kept staring through the fence at those 70,000 fold-out chairs glistening under the massive house lights and flanked by two enormous video screens. Why had I come here? I wondered, looking out at all those seats. What did I think I could possibly find at Billy Graham’s Last Crusade? The ailing preacher had been diagnosed with prostate cancer and he had come to New York City, media capital of the world, to kick off his last evangelical tour.
I had recently undergone some unexpected mystical openings of my own, ones that surprisingly involved Jesus. So I wanted to see if these Christians knew something that I didn’t, and also what might be behind America’s rising fundamentalism that was now preventing gays from getting married in various states. Billy spoke in a weak, but graceful baritone voice, giving a brief sermon on the well-known tale of Nicodemus and the need to be “born again.” The speech lacked a certain depth and passion and glancing at the massive infrastructure in front of me, it just didn’t seem worth the $6.8 million needed to put the whole thing on. As uniformed men packed up the evening’s offerings into armored trucks, I wondered what would have happened if those funds had been spent on issues Jesus actually cared about, like feeding the poor and healing the sick.
I eventually turned my back on the scene and walked over to the Queens’ Unisphere, where kids were splashing away under the140-foot statue of the globe. A twenty-piece band of accordions, drums, trombones, and other instruments played swanky, modernized versions of Israeli classics not too far away. I walked over to find bearded men, many in fishing type hats, dancing with attractive women. The women wore light, comfortable clothes, somehow looking funky, contemporary and traditional with their beads, satchels and bonnets. One of the men came over with his wife to talk.
“What did you think of the sermon?” I asked them.
“Well, Billy understood part of being born again,” said the bearded man. “But I think it’s also about coming out of the womb of selfishness, coming out of darkness and into the light. It’s when you stop only caring for yourself and shed Christ-like compassion on the rest of the world.”
“Who are you guys?” I asked, and the man handed me a brochure explaining that they were The Twelve Tribes.”
“We have communities across the globe,” he said. “We think Karl Marx had it right, except he forgot about spirit. Our communities work together for a common goal. We resemble the early Christian church, before it got greedy with money and power.”
The two of them introduced themselves. They had taken on unpronounceable Hebrew names that I unsuccessfully tried to remember.
“We live on a farm in Vermont,” the woman explained. “There’s a whole community of us trying to grow organic food and live sustainably."
“What’s a typical day like for you up there?” I asked, as I’d been dreaming of living in an intentional community for several years.
“We get up each morning and have a prayer with our breakfast and then we dance,” he said. “We work hard on the farm, but it’s also fun. At night, there’s dinner and more dancing. Sometimes we have skits, music or performances, or just talk about how we’re feeling or questions we might have."
“We try to live like Yahshua,” his wife added. “We hold our brothers and sisters’ hands with love in our hearts.”
Yahshua, as I learned, was Jesus’ Hebrew name, literally meaning “Yahweh’s Salvation.” They had each taken on Hebrew names to be more like Yahshua.
They saw me eyeing the dancing. The music was hot and lively, decadently surreal and bawdy for a group of Marxist Christians. I wanted to jump in but felt shy about it until one of the brothers in the circle grabbed my hand and pulled me in. He showed me the moves. “Step, step, snap, snap, snap.” He kept holding my hand and we stepped and snapped our way through that song and the next and the next. When the band called it a night, I picked up a conversation with him. He told me of his Twelve Tribes community in California -- his relationship to the land, the crops, the goats, the living spirit of his world. He mentioned how this reverence was the exact opposite of Monsanto and other agribusiness giants who’d sue farmers if their genetically modified seeds blew into their fields. Mystical and political, I was already infatuated with their tribe.
I walked back with the musicians to their bus. One of them, a black man, told me how he had been a Mormon in southern Missouri, but the Mormon Church just wasn’t doing it for him. He’d been a drinker, philanderer, gambler, and after a serious drunk-driving accident, he was ready to devote his life to God but wasn’t sure how. He came upon one of the Twelve Tribes’ flyers and came to a meeting. “They treated each other like equals with real love and respect. I couldn’t believe that reality could be like this. You know, Christians talk about living like Jesus, but it’s always after he’s come back. These guys are actually doing it right now.”
In the parking lot, we came across the most amazing double-decker bus I’d ever seen. It was red with white racing stripes, multiple sunroof windows and a retro fifties look that Buddy Holly might have cruised in. This belonged to the Twelve Tribes and they asked me if I wanted to hop on board. The inside had varnished wood paneling with cushions and lamps. The folks in the bus immediately served us cups of mate tea. The captain of the ship, Sholom, noticed me admiring its fortitude and how expensive it all must’ve been.
“We own a café upstate in Ithaca,” Sholom explained. “We work like capitalists, but divide the money like communists. It’s like a vow of poverty. None of us have money, but we have an abundance of everything.”
Sholom spoke in a raspy captain’s voice. He had long, pulled-back black hair, a matching wiry beard, and looked ready to end his stint on shore leave. He read us some poetry he’d written and then talked of all the shows and festivals they’d been to – Phish, the Dead, the Rainbow Gathering, and now Billy Graham. Two Hispanic guitarists were aboard. They had just met the Twelve Tribes that night and were eager to join the community. I was impressed to see how easygoing the members were about converting others. They didn't push or force any dogma. They simply acted through example, inviting you to join along if you wished. This magnetized people to them. The bus had all the races, ages, and genders and they all got along so lovingly. Sholom invited me to visit their community upstate in Ithaca, and as strange as it was, I knew that I would pay them a visit. Was this the intentional community I’d been searching for?
A few months later I found myself on a Greyhound bus heading up to the Twelve Tribe’s enclave in Ithaca, New York. Stemming from the Jesus Movement in the 70’s, the Twelve Tribes had built a couple of dozen communities around the globe to reconnect with spirit, each other, and the earth. But I had serous doubts that they could actually pull this off. I had lived in former Eastern Block countries and had seen the tragic toll of what happens when Marxist ideology gets tweaked and twisted by human nature. And I had to admit I felt a great deal of trepidation regarding my weekend stay with the followers of “Yahshua.”
Sholom, the captain of the Buddy Holly bus, picked me up at the bus station in his car. He quickly allayed my worries of receiving “Yahshua lectures” by talking about all the sites in Ithaca, the café the Tribes owned, and how lots of the townsfolk thought them radicals, communists, whackos, or rich bastards as they owned a big house, a couple businesses and several cars.
“Think about it,” he said in a melodious, whiskey-sounding voice. “We all share our resources. There are fifty of us, but we only need one lawnmower, one dishwasher and a few cars. We save money on everything and that lets us invest in our community. Some people are jealous. They’re stuck in this work/survival rut, suffering from the isolation that our society imposes.”
Sholom directed our conversation from consumerism to oil consumption and all the unnecessary wars that it fosters.
“If you think about it, war fulfills a spiritual need. It gives people’s lives meaning. They can look down the barrel of an enemy and don’t have to fight the war inside themselves. But as Jesus said, “Blessed be the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.”
I had never been to Ithaca before and was delighted to find it a quaint little college town, not so presumptuous as its Ivy League jewel, Cornell University, perched on the hill. Sholom pulled into a beautiful German-looking mansion with white paint, brown trimming and dozens of triangular gables poking up. He explained that this “mansion” had actually been a fitness center they’d bought a few years ago with their shared resources. He led me to a dorm room where the single men slept. The two Hispanic musicians I’d met from the bus at the Billy Graham Crusade had already joined the community and appeared to be having the time of their lives. They proudly introduced themselves by their newly acquired Hebrew names, Derush Zachar and Chetz Bara. Chetz Bara was especially excited today. All of his worldly possessions had arrived at the house and I got to witness the amazing alchemical process of an object transforming from a “mine” to an “ours.” The kids paraded in Chetz’s remote control airplanes, happy that they could all now share in the fun. I asked Chetz if he didn’t mind losing his bank account and his home furnishings, but he cheerily said this was the rich life he’d always been looking for.
At six o’clock, the shofar blew loudly through the hallways and I joined the community’s fifty brothers and sisters for the Shabbat’s opening ceremonies. They gathered in a large circle, wooden chairs all around, in a revamped gymnasium. Members of “the Body,” as they called themselves, had stripped off the gym mirrors, put in wood paneling and hung up Middle Eastern tapestries to make the communal room complete. In accordance with their traditions, the men wore khakis, sandals, and comfortable hemp shirts. They all had beards and long hair, which was held back by headbands, representing the kingdom awaiting them. The women donned loose flowing skirts, similar shirts, and scarves over their heads. In the circle, one person would spontaneously start singing a song that he or she liked. The pianist, drummers and guitar players would kick in as various members jumped up for Israeli folk dancing with the entire community singing and clapping along. Partners constantly switched, small circles formed, rotated, then broke and reassembled, as everybody joyously danced with everybody else.
Afterward, various members would stand up and say what they were thankful for, lessons they had learned that week, anecdotes from the Bible, and greetings for the guests they’d invited to join them in the Shabbat. Nobody gave sermons or lectured. Each member of the community was considered a priest, including the women. They were all a studious bunch, taking copious notes on comments made by their fellow brothers and sisters.
One of the most ear-catching comments was when a member talked about the Lords’ prayer. “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven.’ I was thinking how nations are like kingdoms, kingdoms that we co-create. Now how do we go about creating a kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven?” he asked us. “What’s the most important thing in a kingdom?”
I didn’t know but the Tribe members instantly had a response.
“The children,” was the chorus.
“The children,” he repeated. “It’s important that they give and share freely, that we bring them up to truly love one another without fear, anger and hate.”
When everyone had finished talking, we hopped on our feet and came together in a tight little circle. As their custom, the men held their hands in the air. It didn't seem fair but the women were expected to keep their hands at their sides while various members called out elated, rapid-fire thanks, praising Abba (“Father” in Hebrew) before serving the evening meal.
We ate in the back courtyard under a large circus-like tent. Candles had been lit on all small round tables. The meal was very hearty and healthy -- homemade spelt bread, a garden salad, and a vegetarian pasta dish. The Twelve Tribes had invited various guests and people in need to join in the communal meal. I talked to several members and learned how they had tried it all -- transcendental meditation, psychedelics, shamanism -- searching for answers when they finally came upon the Twelve Tribes and their path to God. While these stories were inspiring, I was also disappointed to hear the community's general condescension to the other spiritual traditions. Just because these roads didn't work out for them didn't mean that they weren't valid for someone else.
The best part of the evening was spent helping the kids clean up. There were no whimpers or complaints as they happily pitched in to help. They were giving, loving, friendly, funny, whip smart, and very natural in themselves. And they loved to tell great stories. As a former teacher who’d instructed kids from many different countries, I immediately found them to be the most well-adapted kids I’d ever met. And it made sense. They were loved, supported, and cared for by the nice little kingdom that had been created for them. As Sholom put it, “We parents have to work on it. After all, we were brought up in that system of competition. But for these kids, it’s just their natural way. They already know how to love, give, and share.”
After cleaning up, there was more music and dancing and storytelling before we all hit the hay. When I arrived at the men’s dormitory, I found a wicker basket of fruit on my mattress with a note welcoming me to the community. A warm, loving feeling swept throughout my being and I considered that this might one day be my home.
The next morning, I ate breakfast with the rest of “the Body” and then Sholom offered to walk me to the café. It was a sunny day and he took me by the Cascadilla Creek towards downtown. Sholom was a poet by trade and we talked about the Beats, Naropa University in Boulder, and our connections with both. He knew most of the Beats, had performed with many of them, but in the end none of that really satisfied his longings. He talked about his quest into Daoism, his wife’s query into religion and how none of that provided the answers they were looking for. Sholom had written a couple of books and he wanted to start another on the Israeli Essenes, who had grown weary of the corruption at the Temple in Jerusalem and headed to the rocky hills overlooking the Dead Sea to experience a truer, purer communion with God. Sholom was studying them when his wife found the Twelve Tribes. At first, there was no way Sholom was going to follow her example and join the Body. However, seeing the essence in their practice, he decided to write a book about them instead of the Essenes. Then it happened. He began to experience God through their path. It was an authentic, ecstatic, satisfying experience that kept with him all the time. It even saw him through the most trying time of his life, watching his wife succumb to cancer. Much like her teacher Yahshua, she didn’t “see death when it came.” She was beyond it mentally, spiritually, accepting this natural transition with composure and grace.
We had reached the Cascadilla Gorge with its first little waterfall. Sholom looked at his watch and saw that we needed to quicken our pace. He put his arm around me and talked of the intelligence and beauty of nature, the Big Bang, quantum physics, and the complicated poetry of DNA. His arm kept around me and I suddenly realized that this was becoming a father-son type thing. I was now in my thirties and perhaps too old for that, but growing up with a loving, but somewhat absent father, I was moved by this gesture and truly loving it. I could see myself hanging out with Sholom and having these fantastic conversations for a long time to come.
When we reached The Commons, Ithaca’s main pedestrian mall, I felt a little uncomfortable walking in public with a man dressed in traditional Hebrew regalia. It was a little like hanging out with an Italian who insisted on wearing a Roman toga, just to commemorate the good old days. But Sholom was a popular figure in these parts and several vagrants greeted him as if he were a local celebrity. Sholom invited them all to dinner and then whispered to me.
“There needs to be a home for the lonely. That’s the problem with America. We don’t have that in our society.”
Several of the Tribes members were waiting outside their café, The Mate Factor, when Sholom and I arrived. The cafe was closed for the Sabbath, which meant the community took a huge financial hit by missing the most trafficked day of the week. I wondered why they just didn’t hire someone else to run the show on Saturdays but there seemed to be a deeper spiritual intention going on. The kids were excited to get inside and grab juices and other cold drinks. Sholom opened the door for me, saying, “This is eternity. Welcome home.” He made me a tasty iced “mate late” while explaining how time wasn’t what we thought it to be. “Yahshua was there in the beginning, at the Garden of Eden, on the cross, and here with us today. The eternal is always here. And The Bible is just a guidebook. Living the life of Yahshua is the important thing. We’re disciples ourselves. People could write testaments about what we’re saying right now.”
One of the more prodigious kids gave me a tour of the café. It was an intricate affair of plants, vines, and beautifully varnished wood taken from a nearby barn. This was definitely a café built by carpenters. The place had an organic, jungly feel and I imagined we were right back in Eden. The kid explained that the Twelve Tribes had a community in Brazil that harvested mate. In Ithaca, they ran the café, packaged and sold mate to distributors, managed a construction company, as well as manufactured and sold shoes. This allowed them to support all their members, build the “Buddy Holly bus” as well as take trips to the various festivals and other outings. The community had a “needs committee” that bought all clothes, toiletries, and other necessities for its members. An older woman, Shoshona, interjected saying, “Can you imagine a world where all your needs are met, a world where you can solely focus on what you were divinely created to do?”
Her words stopped me in my tracks. It’s not often someone says something you’ve been seeking your whole life. Ever since I could remember, I’d always had my back against the wall financially. My parents constantly struggled with making the mortgage and paying the electric bills. I’d been working undesirable jobs since I was eleven and even throughout my twenties, it was a real challenge after long commutes from uninspiring jobs just to squeeze in a few hours of joy and magic into life. I’d always felt there was a better world out there; one where you got to spend time exploring who you are and what this great mystery of a universe is really about. And here the Twelve Tribes were already doing it -- creating time to share stories, play music, connect, and enjoy the richness of life. My impossible dream was being lived out right in front of me.
We all arrived back at the house in time for the six o’clock shofar call. The members fell back in their circle, singing and dancing Israeli songs. This was the big night of Shabbat and they hosted an extended go around, sharing thoughts, praises, and anecdotes before bringing out a large stemmed glass filled to the rim with wine. Chetz Baru had just been baptized and he was ecstatic as this was his first week sharing in “the breaking of the bread.” It was his honor to pass around “the victory cup.” Every member of the community had to consider if they’d served Christ well that week, shedding universal love to their brothers and sisters in the world. It was a profound moment watching these strong-minded adults humbly accept the cup to their lips or honestly admit they hadn’t lived up to their Christ-like potential.
Many members took this opportunity to apologize for trespasses they’d made against other members in the Body and the community lovingly forgave them. It was such an honest, open, and forthcoming way of handling personal issues, which explained how fifty people managed to live so cooperatively under one roof. They truly were a “Body” and needed all its various parts to function well. Half the cup was full when they had finished and Sholom commented that there was much grace not utilized this week, but that they could make up for it over the next one. This little ceremony shattered my ideas on money as I suddenly realized this was how they measured wealth within their community.
Then the members moved towards the back room for the breaking of the bread. This was apparently the highlight of the whole show, as they reenacted the last supper each week. Only baptized members could attend the ceremony. Two of the brothers made the sacrifice to forgo the ritual and drive me back to the café for an amazing glazed chicken dinner with steamed broccoli. The two of them were kind and generous throughout the meal but they pushed a little too desperately in trying to convince me to join the Body. I recalled Sholom's words about the Twelve Tribes providing a home for the lonely. Listening to these two, I realized that this was their last stop, that they had nowhere else to go, which may have been the case with many members of the community. But to be honest, that wasn't too far from where I was at. I had never felt that I really fit in to our agreed- upon capitalist society.
When I arrived back at the dormitories, Chetz Bara was wide awake and his cheeks were all aglow. He excitedly told me how he’d felt the spirit of God in the breaking of the bread, that this ceremony was just like being back there with the original twelve apostles. I was happy for Chetz but also felt a sliver of jealously.
I woke up that Sunday with a touch of melancholy in my heart knowing it would be my last day with the Twelve Tribes for a while. After the Sunday morning teaching, Sholom decided to show me beautiful Ithaca Falls before I caught the bus back home. We rode bikes through the town, discussing string theory and the vibrational healing powers of prayer. These prayers, he said, were more necessary than ever as the whole world was now in very deep trouble. We parked our bikes and walked down to the wide falls and sat near the still water below.
Sholom admired the scene for awhile and then asked, “So, what do you think of the Twelve Tribes? Are you considering joining us?”
This, I knew, was the time to bring up the one thing that had been bothering me the whole weekend.
“Does it just have to be Jesus, or could I embrace other traditions as well?”
“Well…” Sholom thought about it. “As I was telling you before, I’ve tried it all -- Judaism, Daoism, poetry. Think of Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman -- all that transcendental philosophy and where did it get them? Right back where Whitman’s poetry started, 'In the dust of the road.'”
“I understand what you’re saying but I feel love still exists as an essence, even if we call it amour, ahav, or laska. Maybe it’s the same with God. It’s a universal essence we all experience and the different religions are just various translations of it.”
Sholom scratched his beard, pondering my words. “It’s like Yahshua says, ‘Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.’ What I treasure are human beings. There’s so much suffering in the world. What’s helped? Governments? Religions? Economics? You’ve seen what the Twelve Tribes does. We provide a home for the lonely. Who else does that?”
“Other spiritual communities must provide that kind of support.”
“Is Buddha stopping wars in Iraq?” Sholom raised his voice. "Are Shiva and Krishna going to end global oppression and racism?”
“I just think there may be more pieces to this puzzle than you think.”
“But the Twelve Tribes works!” Sholom yelled at me. He caught himself and grew quiet for a few moments.
Sholom sighed out over the river, shaking his head, knowing I'd made my decision. We sat there for half an hour without saying a word. The disappointment was palpable, hanging like a murky cloud between us. I felt awful, like the prodigal son telling his father he would not be coming into the family business. I had truly enjoyed my stay at the Twelve Tribes but I now knew that I could never become a member of the Body. I’d willingly forfeit my worldly possessions, and even lose the jeans and T-shirts to put on their traditional wear, but the one thing I couldn’t give up were my spiritual attachments. Since my recent mystical awakenings, I’d come to love Buddhist philosophy, Sufi dancing, shamanic journeys, kundalini meditations and the rest. Each one was its own poetic adventure to the eternal and I just couldn’t let and surrender myself entirely to Jesus. I wanted a spiritual community more than anything, but not if it meant lying to myself.
Time was running short and we eventually hopped on our bikes and rode back without saying a word. I grabbed my bags and found several of the Tribes members waiting in a car to accompany me to the bus station. Sholom drove us there in silence. He helped me carry my bags to the lower compartment of the bus. As I was about to step inside, he pulled me into his strong belly and gave me a huge captain’s hug. “Goodbye, my friend,” he said. “I’ll miss you.” We nodded our final farewells and the members waved until the bus pulled out of site. The Greyhound rumbled on and I absently gazed out the window, thinking of the events that weekend and how much they’d already enriched my life. This was an early training for my forthcoming intentional community. And I no longer had to imagine futuristic eco-villages and far-off utopias to picture how humans could work together, giving, loving and sharing in a peaceful way. People were already out there doing it and if I ever had my doubts, all I had to do was think of the time I spent with the Twelve Tribes.
Image: "chalice and bread_2554" by hoyasmeg on Flickr, courtesy of Creative Commons Licensing.
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Comments
Ye gads!
Thanks for telling us about your investigations and diving into yet another cyst on the body humanity and all the sickness that that entails.
How dare they, and you by extension or maybe original intention, attempt to associate a pack of lies with the man Jesus, or the family of Jesus who by definion must be David. A man full of errors but with good intent.
Just a man. Just a family, who willingly accepted the justness and the equity of Roman LAW, that stands today as the basis of Western Law and justice. So that family were 'traitors' according to your 'friends'.
Take all yer 'friends' talk and tell 'em where to go: hell. Rather, back there.
A more perfect description of hell than as you have described herein above: I can't imagine.
Stuck, stuck-up, and idiotic. The philosophy implied by what you have described makes me sick.
Do mean to present such just to wring-out a proper denunciation? Can you not have had enough fortitude or conscience so as not to just say all by yourself that this is just more of what has made life in any form deemed cheap?
What is this you wrote?
Why did you write this?
You're just another member of that brook or puddle of folk who want to pick on a 'Jesus' and put all the onus somewhere else than being a veritable rebel against any onerous thing.
There was never anyone named 'Jesus' except the son of Nun.
Perhaps you are thinking about prophecy or a delineation of desires that was put into novel long ago? And long ago rendered as if some history.
And a little ways off, we'll find that the flesh and blood 'Harry Potter' is the very 'savior' for all future generations. And you can then be a 'prohept' of that name.
Right?
I'm still waiting for anyone to step forth with a cult surrounding Beatrix Potter or Egdar Allen Poe or tell us about the ascension of George Washington and his Wife Martha.
"Jesus"' father, "Joseph", DID things. So did his Mother.
So have yers.
And all the history of mankind has their betters both behind and before them.
A principle is being iterated and re-iterated here.
But evidently some people want to side-step it so as to indulge in private fancies.
There'd be no 'you', hadn't there been some substantive delight taken in putting self as under: loving others not just as we love ourselves, but MORE than we love ourselves.
That don't take no 'community' nor any named personality from the past. It is instinct. All the 'masters' or 'Rabbis' that were really 'masters', male and female, that built up and codified principles or 'essences' of familial life and what was nice, kind, pure and friendly have said exactly what is summarized in so-called aphorisms of a 'Jesus'. Yet you want to create a new 'mythos'? Write a novel. Make Marx a 'reincarnation' of a Jesus if you want. You go do that. But do it honestly. Not 'subtly'.
Parentage, or 'Christly' sacrifice is going on every day in countless ways and demonstrated in nature profusely and the example is RIFE.
So take your little community of selective fanatics and shove it upon yourselves alone. You obviously regret your involvement, and have doubts about it, else you wouldn't have wearied us by so many paragraphs about this terror you have undergone. You want someone to say: you've been abused. Okay. Fine. You were abused. And you alone let it happen. Enjoy the learning process or cease to be at all.
======================
Art is the pinnacle of science. Science the pinnacle of knowledge. Knowledge the pinnacle of experiment. Experiment the perogative of self-awareness. Self awareness: the basis of art.
Sounds great, but
shameful
really, is this the only response you people have to this article? outrage over arbitrary definitions of divinity that were a detail and not even a main point? were you unable to grasp that he went to see what they offered, and is sharing the story? he's not complaining about being terrified or violated, he's simply recounting an experience. yes, there are obvious failings with the group, but why not pay attention to what they're doing right and how to improve rather than rant on about how incorrect they are on a comparatively pointless issue. i'd think that a site like this would have more people interested in dissecting the strengths and weaknesses to improve on it. but no, we have soapboxes and barely intelligible tirades. how shameful. and roger, you sound like nothing more than a ranting fool, congratulations on being exactly what you hate. jonathan, thank you. if nothing else i certainly enjoyed this post.
~*~-~*~ 'Versal Free Agent ~*~-~*~
=======Memetic Komando======
======Khayos Ryzing Skwad=====
-Ehsewtearik Uhkullt Warfheir Devijon-
Beyond the Map
Propaganda Anonymous
PEACE Will.
Positive words there.
Prop!
Did someone say Barfly?
Propaganda Anonymous
To all my frieeeeeeends!
Can't we keep the bee and loose the stinger?
Consider that perhaps some of the positive aspects of the community(sometimes being able to do what you love instead of always working at jobs you hate, being a member of a fun and close knit community, etc) aren't absolutely welded to the negative aspects(homophobia, anti-Semitism, etc.).
It might be fruitful instead of going over why we hate The Twelve Tribes/Christanity/fundamentalism/etc.,etc. to look at why a lot of these groups have the draw that they do, can get money like they do, and actually do some things right despite having beliefs that are honestly repulsive. More analysis later, C23
Would he were fatter! But I fear him not:
Yet if my name were liable to fear,
I do not know the man I should avoid
So soon as that spare Cassius. He reads much;
He is a great observer
Great Journalism Here
I read the article with great interest, but found myself skeptical. Every community has problems within it, and must be looked at warts and all if a truly accurate portrayal is to be made. There's a lot of good in what they do - in fact it's like taking a tour of my dream world in several respects - but the exclusivity, particularly the dogmatic insistence on an Israeli cultural paradigm, is a huge turn off for me. It results in a cultural isolationism that, on the one hand no doubt helps maintain their cultural integrity within the maelstrom of modern America; but on the other, prevents their movement from becoming truly expansive. Too many people are turned off by the dogmatism.
That said there's a lot to love about the way they've found for living together.
__________
The Revolution is Within
Sharing an Experience
Thanks to everyone for reading this fairly long piece, and taking time to writed down your comments. I certainly can relate with those who are passionately angry at the more fundamentalist aspects of the Twelve Tribes. Christianity as a whole has an unfortunate, cruel history based on dogmatic behavior and I find it disheartening when spiritual traditions aren't open to the truths of other paths. And it was this dogma that repelled me from pursuing the group further. As for some of the darker traits mentioned above (ie: corporal punishement, racism), I certainly didn't see anything along those lines, and it seems contradictory to their "cup of grace," but that's not to say it doesn't exist there.
I only spent a weekend with them and the article is simply showing my observations and experiences over that short period of time. I do know some things worked for me, other things didn't. But now that some time has passed, I can recognize that my time there did alter the way I looked at how communities can share their possessions, passions, and ideas.
Often, I'll be driving through a suburban development with two cars in each driveway and all those lawns perfectly mowed and I'll think of Sholom saying that they only needed one lawn mower, which opened up their resources (and time) for other things. I often wonder if we could learn to share like they did -- what kind of time and resources would be freed up in our own lives. I also think of that cup of grace that they drank from and try and measure my own sincerity with friends based upon the integrity and love I show them.
Admittedly, the Twelve Tribes was not my ideal eco-Utopia, full of open-minded visionaries, but even with it's flaws and, yes, fundamentalism, I still was able to learn some important things. And sharing these lessons and experience with all of you was the main intention of the piece.
flight cancelled
i can't not respond to this madness. cj and roger, i feel your pain. i literally threw my framed picture of ramtha across the room when i read the proclamation "I believe Jesus was God's voice incarnate." will, you could not be further from the "light" if you still believe in that fundamentalist crap. more importantly: IT DOES NOT BELONG HERE. we are gathered here to open minds, not close them. such dogmatic thought does nothing but oppress! shiiiit... you be coming in here telling us how we should live our lives then accuse us of persecuting you?!?! holy jebus man, you are cracking me up. you need to accept your wounded humanist ego, grow some transcendental balls, and stop whining about being a victim. a little richard bach and a few acid trips might help.
that said, i'm not trying to discount the author's experience even with touchy-feely, idol-worshipping cultists. the problem here is that we have bible-huggers trying to pervert his experience into credence for their narrow-minded views. twist and turn just about anything to prove their righteousness! (it seems this kind of sick paraphrasing is required to exist within such literalist philosophies.) confined your existence to the pages of a book. jeff, how can one review critically such beliefs without laughing hysterically at the complete madness of it all??? your search will surely be fruitless because there is no intelligence behind such blind worship, however "virtuous." why? because bubbles are bad. sheltering people from reality is pure idiocy. after all, one must first accept the ego in order to forgive it. one must also accept the world as it is; a system with chaos as well as order. is not every piece God's own creation? if we want the illusion of physical separation to finally dissolve we need to let the the archaic paradigm fall, not continue to prop it up!
i cannot tell you how very sick and tired i am of hearing poorly regurgitated verbatim as if words alone held the truth. HELLO... obama is now being compared to a dead monkey because a few people took a joke way too literally (didn't the same people declare racism dead?!?) everyone knows obama doesn't write bills, his cronies do. if a black man weren't president it'd be a huge gender-related arguement over pelosi's bra size! hot damn, you people are more entertaining than a peter sellers movie!!! of course i recognize (and, ahem, appreciate) the variety of human experience and know every one of us must decide for ourselves, as this is the beauty of divine free will, but i cannot sit quietly while "believers" and their narrow-minded thoughts damn our stream of consciousness with perverted ignorance, suppression, and fear.
a truly "utopian" society will never exist on this planet until people realize they MUST leave their spiritual prejudices behind altogether. it cannot happen any other way. all religions branch from the same tree of divine knowledge anyway... we must develop a common story of existence based on all available information, not just parts. this is being done by millions of people everyday, on their own and with the help of communities like reality sandwich, creating momentum for the inevitable snowball. closed-off, sheltered communities like the twelve tribes only dilute this progress. i cannot support anything preventing people from discovering the true meaning of their existence; i don't care if they grow their own tomatoes or give out free hugs.
Secret Journey
All of the world's great traditions are fingers on the hand of God.—Kahlil Gibran
IMO, one of the greatest — and most common — obstructions encountered on the path, is succumbing to the idea that the way that works for you, is THE way.
Out of One, Many. From Many, One. Chaos, Cosmos.
Is not Lucifer, the light-bringer, beloved as The Anointed in Heaven? Remember? Re-member.
And when you've made YOUR secret journey, you will be a holy (whole) man.—The Police
Yeah, yer right
I was angry. And it was a rediculous post. I would have removed it if I hadn't been blithering drunk. Just purging some of the detritus in my own garbage patch probably.
I cannot gauarantee there are other equally or even more rediculous rants within me, but will be sure to learn better to examine them more assiduously in the future should they appear about to fall out rouse such ire as all this. The gentler rebuke, still, I feel, a better approach than frank self-righteous ire.
So thank you Jeff for being nice like that and all.
I admire those who can honestly say, they've never said a stupid or hasty thing.
Illwill: Why is it that Christians often speak of 'prayer' like a 'curse'?
You have never heard the saw: a soft voice turns away wrath?
I would prefer a frank curse to some people's idea of 'prayer'. And in believing you or anyone else knows what to ask of God for another, I think it might be better to pray to your God for a way to deal with people you repugn. Why didn't you pray before you wrote? You shot from the hip there too friend. So I'll pray to Jesus to protect me from your form of prayer. How's that? Acceptable to you? So you have forgiven me? You don't even have to ask me for forgiveness. Just forget it. I have. No offense tendered, none planned. So I'll jiss bless your for your whatever that was you prentended to pronounce on me. You don't scare me. I fear my Christ. And I'm certain THAT's not at your beck and call.
I was afraid of Jeff, in reflection, because my conscience smote me before you ever even writ illwill. That I might have hurt someone's feelings with what even to me after leaving the 'blessed' machine that allows us all to talk like this: 'did I say that right'? Other concerns took over before I could edit it or even erase. So the blathering remains there for all to see and en embarrassment, to me.
And of course I have to apologise to Jonathan. I think he knows me. I'll have to reread it all, and perhaps say some other things to heal these wounds.
'Kay?
======================
Art is the pinnacle of science. Science the pinnacle of knowledge. Knowledge the pinnacle of experiment. Experiment the perogative of self-awareness. Self awareness: the basis of art. <
The Problem Is Authority.
One of the central arguments of Marxism is the need for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Specifically what he means by dictatorship of the proletariat is a specifically Marxist vanguard party. Bakunin notes in "Anarchism And The State”:
“They [the Marxists] maintain that only a dictatorship — their dictatorship, of course — can create the will of the people, while our answer to this is: No dictatorship can have any other aim but that of self-perpetuation, and it can beget only slavery in the people tolerating it; freedom can be created only by freedom, that is, by a universal rebellion on the part of the people and free organization of the toiling masses from the bottom up."
The Twelve Tribes ask “”Now how do we go about creating a kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven?” and “What’s the most important thing in a kingdom?” The answer they seemed to have laid out is kind of misleading. They answer that the children are the most important. The Tribe are biblical literalists and under Biblical Patriarchy the family is an analog for the Kingdom of Heaven where The Father has ultimate authority, the mother is subservient to the father and the children subservient to both. While it should have been obvious that the what makes a kingdom a kingdom is the existence of a king, What essentially is being said is that the kingdom can’t exist unless children are taught subservience. There are countless passages in the bible that support this kind of organization but the one I want to focus on most especially is Matthew 22:1 which reads, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”. This passage is has been used in Christianity two things:
1. Legitimate secular authority is appointed by god.
2. Submission to earthly authority is advisable but should not supersede submission to God’s authority.
Historically every Christian church has defined itself as being the earthly manifestation of god’s authority, and because of this the people should submit to them. The Holy Roman Catholic Church is probably the most obvious example of an organized religious body claiming their worldly authority is mandated by God, but it’s worth noting in this article the Tribe makes the same claim:
“We resemble the early Christian church, before it got greedy with money and power.”
The argument is not that accumulating money or power for a church is bad but that other Churches unlike the Tribe had become greedy and started doing it for themselves not for God and therefore had forfeited their role as God’s chosen earthly authority. This kind of framing exists in every Christian power struggle I am aware of.
My argument is not that all Marxists or all Christians, or even all Tribe members, are power hungry would be dictators. My argument is that authoritarian hierarchy as an organizational structure inhibits freedom and encourages the kind of capitalist competition these groups oppose. This holds true no matter how good the people in charge are or what ideologies they espouse.
The author specifically mentions the eastern bloc as an example of Marx’s ideas being twisted. While there is some truth to that I’d argue, in context of this article, that the eastern bloc are examples of exactly why authoritarian regimes cannot deliver on any promise that does not serve to keep them in power. The same kinds of issues cropped up with China’s treatment of Vietnam.
There examples of anti authoritarian socialist/communist organizing that have worked, specifically Anarchist Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War, and worker owned Factories in Argentina. I want to draw special attention to the Spanish Civil War. WW II is often touted a war against the evils of fascism, yet the allied capitalist powers provided no support to Spanish Anarchists fighting Franco’s fascist regime. More over Stalin who should have seen them as ideological allies, or at least far preferable to Franco’s regime sold out the anarchists.
Historically authoritarian socialist and communist regimes have been quick to round up the anarchists after seizing power (see Cuba among others). This is because as Bakunin noted all hierarchies have self perpetuation as their primary aim and not all the other pretty ideas they sell themselves with.
Anarchists by and large have been vehemently opposed to organized religion, not just because historically they side with those in power and against the people, but because of the recognition that their structure are antithetical to freedom no matter what they say to the contrary. This becomes evident in the Tribes’ denigration of other faiths and the authoritarian outburst when the author really pushes the subject. The simple fact is they can’t allow for ideological competition because it undermines their ability to self perpetuate and increase their influence.
Anarchism is best understood as an ethical discourse. For example, in regard to hierarchy the opposition is not derived from holy texts or prophets but to a historical and logical inquiry on the subject. Most religions and ideologies lend themselves to hierarchy and this is one reason religion is such a tricky issue, especially when it is the focus of an organizational effort. I would actually argue that a community which allows for diversity of spiritual beliefs would have to be functionally atheist.
Decisions could not be made in regard to one’s spiritual truth but would have to be made in the best interest of the physical needs of the community. This isn’t “forgetting” spirit it’s relegating spirit to a place where one person’s truth cannot force the hand of the community.
New Orlean’s Common Ground Collective was organized on anarchist principles, and while I’m not holding them up as an ideal, one of the earliest challenges they realized was that they would have to put the physical good of the community before individual dedication to either theism or atheism as philosophical ideologies. Though I do think in the long run it is absolutely worth questioning what we believe in the way we might question what we eat.
For example I practice magic and the vast majority of magical systems are predicated on master servant dichotomies. Whether it’s bowing to a god or making a spirit do your bidding. The question I began to ask myself is was it healthy to be conditioning my mind to accept that as an ethically valid philosophical stance. After concluding it was not, I concentrated on developing alternatives to that structure and that to me is the key point the author seems to be missing. You can’t fix the issues you mention by switching systems which are fundamentally or practically the same.
Creating alternatives is difficult and demands consensus rather than the tyranny of majority rule and will likely depend on smaller units of organization than ones sates and organized religions fixate on.
There are plenty of groups doing fantastic work in their communities which are either explicitly anarchist or at the least anti authoritarian. Sometimes they are flawed but I would be interested to hear the author compare their experience with the authoritarian Twelve Tribes to efforts like those or even in organizing his own effort.
Lastly I’ll leave with these words:
"I am an Anarchist not because I believe Anarchism is the final goal, but because there is no such thing as a final goal." — Rudolf Rocker
I’m not proposing a Utopian solution, but rather suggesting that we adopt flexible alternatives that let us address issues and goals as they arise rather than relying on authoritarian structures we hope will deliver us to the promised land.
To believe or not believe. Wait, what was the question?
Propaganda Anonymous
My personal assessment of Christianity within the Western world, and focusing more on the US, leads me to a conclusion that there are many Jesus jumping around. Lots of little J-man's hopping around in people psyches. Which, then is projected outwards, inwards and in words.
I think that the mostly White counterculture of the 60's view point of something like Christianity can best be summed up by people like St. George the Carlin. Mr. Robert fnord Wilson, and the mighty Paul Krassner.
I think that their rebellion against the forms of Christianity's they came up in were very much warranted. (Except for Krassner, for he was a Jewish child, and always made good grades before the Devil music got hold of him)
The types of Christianity Carlin and Wilson rejected were of the Catholic persuasion.
For many African Americans, the "Church" has comprised of Southern Baptist, Seventh Day Adventist varieties.
These Churches were and are very different than the Catholic types.
For all the bullshit that has been perpetuated underneath the umbrella of Christianity, I also think that there have been some very amazing Christians.
Liberation Theology is a sublime example of that. And the work of the Berrigan brothers stands tall, and is continued today by the likes of Father Roy Borgeious (might have misspelled that)He is the priest working tirelessly to close the School of the Americas down in Georgia.
These are real Christians, imho.
Fundamentalists of every sort are morons. One doesn't need to be associated with an official religion to be a fundamentalist.I think a key characteristic of a Fundamentalist is knee-jerk reactionary responses to anything that may require more than a few minutes to understand. To think that you know exactly what something is or is about almost immediately (in terms of reading words on a page) is a sign that you may have some fundamentalist qualities.
And reading is fundamental.
flight delayed
saying you won't entertain is entertaining in and of itself. so which one is it?
will i be forgiven if i speak your language? what if i PRAY for transcendental balls? is that not what im already doing by projecting these feelings in your direction?
look at you going around forcing people to face and forgive their evils, you are acting out the christ archetype as we speak. different perspectives aren't such a bad thing... the lessons learned from such interactions are what experiencing human life is all about. bless but do not repress. the moon is lifting all sorts of veils tonight.
Which One Doesn't Belong?
Circle the word that doesn't belong in each group.
1. Boy, Girl, Man, Woman, The Star Spangled Banner Sung Through An Electric Razor
2. Cat, Dog, Hamster, Rabbit, Turtle Soup
3. Phish, The Dead, A Rainbow Gathering, Reverend Billy Graham
A link to an older yet relevant article by Dion Denis about the death of the American dream meme and the rise of fundamentalist Christian fascism:
http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=476
best,
r--
Take no offense
Yet I have to answer as only on my own puny behalf:
What CJ has said: 'don't tempt me'.
If we have a question, what is so wrong in just being sincere and asking: 'am I wrong in thinking . . .'
Or: 'Am i RIGHT, in thinking? . . . ' so and so.
Friend: As I read these brothers of mine and sisters of mine: well! I feel, really: love.
It actually, evidently doesn't matter what my current ignorance is, or what I currently think. I'm still showered in this love.
Amazing.
I don't even have to deserve it!
I don't know about you, but no matter how bad I be, or have been, I still get just about the same tolerance.
Such generosity, without being predsigned to do so, makes me want to be the same way. I repent of my cheepness all by myself. And I thank my own ability to observe. And absorb.
Who wouldn't like. Who wouldn't love such kindness. Such generosity? What can we do to them? They are still, so kind to us.
So maybe you understand, a little, the wheres and wherebys I 'worship'. I worship such as these. And that principle. Unmeasurable. Stuff: Uknown.
To such I'm drawn. To such I honor. To such I bow.
And only so, and as much as that. Up to today.
As for tomorrow?: unknown.
======================
Art is the pinnacle of science. Science the pinnacle of knowledge. Knowledge the pinnacle of experiment. Experiment the perogative of self-awareness. Self awareness: the basis of art. <
You
went up in that swirl. Up into that firey and fearful looking thing.
Where did you go?
======================
Art is the pinnacle of science. Science the pinnacle of knowledge. Knowledge the pinnacle of experiment. Experiment the perogative of self-awareness. Self awareness: the basis of art.
flight departing
i cant even look at myself in the mirror right now. fucking moron, moon.
what is this love? im so confused. it feels strange. excuse me for acting so primitive. my feelings got in the way, again.
i truly only feel love for you all. my ignorance often creates the illusion that you must love one part more than the other, and in this i am guilty. most times i cannot decide whether to love the separation or to hate it. this is the sickness. maybe just accept it. love it. (maybe keep my mouth shut) thats good advice...
im wholly truly sorry if my speaker's corner stirrings in proverbial muck caused any ire to form at all! please forgive me. the fruit is everywhere i look now. its paradise, eden. home.
so what do we do now, now that we're here?
exist? co-create? utilize the will we were given? illwill i hope you will. im not excusing! im praying. forgive me, for "living" blinded me once again from seeing the full rainbow spectrum. this focusing thing is effing hard. i know not what i am. i truly thought my experience was worth a tweet or maybe even a twitter. all together it was enough to send me 'afluttering, embarrassingly. seriously. did i mention im a daughter? what difference does this make! is your brain splitting yet? mine is. is not yin and yang a beautiful equilibrium/harmony? i need you and you need me. polarity. each beat as important as the rest, in the symphony. only together. we are all, together, one. source. god. godliness IS the creative genius. love is the special of the day, everyday, so special each one of us, from the nuttiest to the loveliest. the light is so bright, it hurts. thank you.
"Love is the harmony
Desire is the key
Love is a symphony
Now play it with me
You'll be the rythm and I'll be the beat
You'll be the rythm and I'll be the beat
Then I'll be the rythm and you'll be the beat
And love, the shoreline, where you and I meet." -Lykke Li
Yeah
And this attraction has so long been deined us. but i love you, and you love me. and maybe i love you because you love me. or versa visa or just this love all at once. What was it that was said or writ that disallowe us?
So i'll die if i think you are dead. And not being dead still you'll die, thinking your love is dead (i'm not).
So we, you and me, aren't really at cross purposes, it is because we, both of us, believed what some other, not in love, has said.
======================
Art is the pinnacle of science. Science the pinnacle of knowledge. Knowledge the pinnacle of experiment. Experiment the perogative of self-awareness. Self awareness: the basis of art.
I am surprised at the reactions...
For a community that prides itself with an open mind, there was such a quick, knee-jerk reaction towards this group. Despite the hearsay of thier dogma, they are merely another group trying to live thier lives as fully and lovingly as they can grasp.
Now, there are things that upsett me about thier teachings- the disergard towards GLBT life is certainly disconserting, yet they are not activily performing hate crimes. I don't see it any way different from the "dogma" in this community where various shamanic medicines are often recklessly recreationaly used under the guise of spiritual growth.
You see, in this community of RS'ers, burners, ravers, gypsies- whatever it has currently named itself- we want to be accepted as we are. We've never done outreach to bring others into our homes. People come because this life calls them. Same for the 12 Tribes. You go as your path takes you.
I have noticed for such a fringe community, there is fast judgment when "other fringe" doesn't match "our fringe". It is a silly double standard, and if we truely adhear to the ideals of Radical Expression, then we will be loving to other fringe groups that are nonviolent and to authors who have opened thier hearts to us.
Be the love you desire to recieve.
Leonard Cohen is Christ
Propaganda Anonymous
Leonard Cohen spoke to Hank Williamswho spoke with St. John of the Crosswho'd been schtupping Joan of ArcI smoked a bowl with him outside of the ChurchWe saw Jim Morrison burning some biblesgiggling something about the Gospel of Judas.
Christianty....Love the core elements to itMuch like Islam and JudaismBut the Dogma and Doctrine for the most part is WHACK!
Praise Jesus, the day laborer waiting down at home depot
Praise Rev, Billy preparing us all for the Shopocalypse!
all jerking aside
okay, so the kneeing and jerking im familiar with. i trust gut reactions and often go with them, rarely to my dismay. not today. but, my little sing song revelation dance does not mean im agreeing with anything anyone's said at all. im definitely a "believer" of truth, but we all know that's relative. so now that we're limited to certain terms for expressing our jerking at the cages pages create... like wanting to free all the monkeys at the zoo... i think i'll disagree with you too.
is not the name of the game conscious evolution? what is so progressive that we need to take notes about twelve tribes living like its nineteen ninety-nine B.C.? marxism is a great and splendid idea. but thats it. its like having the horse without the cart. so we are all forced to be equal, economically, but at the cost of spirit? or if there is spirituality, whose spirit is it we must worship? you see, i don't see this as progress at all. SammHain even pointed out there are communities doing the same thing as the twelve tribes, without having to mix mucky spiritual prejudice into the soup... but here we encounter the same problem: the absence of spirit. the twelve say they do it to "be like jesus." what a quaint cop out. why can't it be "because we have reached a moment in history where we have the ways and means to finally understand what the divine roots of religion and mysticism and even tetrahedrons, tell us: that we are all eternally, intrinsically, and literally ONE." ha, that will be the day. imagine all of us sharing and giving and loving and living according to a common understanding of connectedness. "thats why we share." we wouldn't need jesus because we'd all be christs! we do not need to worship anyone but our-selves. isn't that the most ideal idealism of all? put the horse before the cart. i agree with cj's observations on the profound ignorance of their tribal philospophy because that's what it is. and i don't want it.
what i want, is to believe the next great shift in human evolution will be the development of telepathy and other extra-sensory psychic abilities. but before we can speak through thought, we must learn how to think. this is why i ask the question: should we support such blockages of consciousness? i understand communities like this seem like a beautiful oasis from society, from reality! but we cannot just turn our backs on the world, our world, the one we create everyday, the one we can change in a moment, because we're tired and need a hug. i would hug each and every one of you if i could, we should, hug it out, in my mind i do, but then what? its very hard for me to encourage anything tugging us back into that abyss, that nickle and dime paradigm.
Community
Oh for a community that declares:
'Because we have reached a moment in history where we have the ways and means to finally understand what the divine roots of religion and mysticism and even tetrahedrons,tell us: that we are all externally,intrinsically and literally, ONE.
Right on,Brother.
Or Sister,whatever the case may be.
Religious fundamentalism has been and continues to be the pesticide on the human garden,wreaking physical and emotional violence on whoever they decide are beyond the pale.Actually seeking their destruction and succeeding in many cases.
Now thats genocide,folks!
A nickle and dime paradigm indeed.
As I grow tired of the
As I grow tired of the nickle and dime paradime of men eliminatng peoples they find that don't fit into thier mind, last I knew destruction of an entire group is called genocide.
I favor natural selection, so if a culture dies out, so be it. I do not favor open war upon a nonviolent group of humans living a way they see as thier way to the way. Not every mind is ready to open to your correct and proper experiance that you learned through whatever manner you learned it.
Let my garden grow.
wild in its time the soil so rich, all has room it will stablize, on its own, without your pesticides.
just gotta have faith?
you take offense at my two cents. did i not just advocate reverence toward all gents? certainly not violence. but surely not ignorance. still, i value your observance.
but, is this not a place for ideas on progress? if we all sat back impressed at the fundies and their proverbial mess, we'd soon find ourselves in weeds to our necks! all life requires suitable environment. how then can we provide this for consciousness? should we leave it up to God alone? how are we to know which direction to go? its not about whose best, we already agree its all relevant. its simply about utilizing ideas that are not stagnant. the missing ingredient: focus.
and of all times, the end of time, we have this argument! i find it hilarious. look how far we've come, the mind has obviously progressed. as singularity approaches and all diversities' exploding, i see each blossom, each lotus, appreciating their individual beauty and inherent wholeness. even the darkness, especially the light. but if we want to encourage this garden of eden unfolding, shouldn't we turn our focus to those processes most fruitful, wholly?
who knows, maybe we really have no control. just drops in the ocean, unknowing.
Bait and Switches
Propaganda Anonymous
PEACE to all who may wish to hurt me
PEACE to all who may wish to love me
PEACE to all who sound like David after the Dentist
black sheep
delete my entries from your mind if you wish, maybe its better.
us scorpios live through our emotions you see, as cj puts it "people project their own emotions on others"... well, guess what? its really easy to do when its an lcd. did i mention im a painter? doesn't matter.
i suppose if someone tried arguing astrology was satan's behind's stools' reading, i'd get a little puffed up. so i thank you, once again. all of you. for ALLOWING me to take the pill so gracefully, tastefully, and with a little poetry! you can rest assured, illwill, i'll have sweating balls the next time i put down the truth of another.
all we need is love.
FLAG THIS!
Who is this mysterious flagger that could find upset or insult in the above two posts by birdonawire on propanon?
An intriguing coda to the conversation.
Don't forget to flag now.
fellows
Capture the Flag
Propaganda AnonymousWow.
Did my post really get flagged?
Haha.
One word about this system with the flagging stuff on this siteAs this site gets bigger, and more varied visitors come thruonly a percentage will seek to comment and become "involved"The Internet is full of lurkers. As websites like this grow the attention put upon in will not always have the best intentions in mind.So that's always good to stay aware of. (I'm sure your all aware of this already)
Also, there may be people who just read a comment or two and don't read the whole thread, and "Hey Why Not Flag"Whatev's maaaaaaaan.
We should all be having this conversation in real time anyway. It be lots more fun....
Xanadu
Sidebar
...Actually,people did advocate for her but those comments got deleted.
And also mysteriously I note that a rather innocuous one line post by CJ got deleted,for what reason, I cannot fathom.
Curious.
Some thoughts
Propaganda Anonymous
I don't think the lady should have been banned from the boards or whatever happenedBut she did verbally attack cats in comments.Also she attacked the guy who started the website.Not saying that Daniel's thoughts should not be challenged with, hopefully, well thought out debating points.But she did appear, and I do not know whatever-if any back story to their own interactions, to harbor a grudge against Daniel. At least that's what I read in her comments. That being said, she also left a very nice comment about my article I wrote on the Optimus Foundation, which was cool. Personally, I don't think the lady should have been banned from posting. But she should also have been more courteous in many of her comments.Like all things in life, this shit works both ways.
And again, maybe lots of these issues come up because these conversations are not conducted in real time. But also too, maybe we can all work on ways to both interpret what individual posters may "MEAN"
For instance, someone writes something that is more meant as a joke than anything else.But said statement is interpreted as something else.Instead of getting into a Blame Game, which in many sites on the web, turns into a Flame War; how do we, in this cyber cyhper, find common ground in mutually satisfying ways?
Is it possible?Some sites are able to house that.
I think RS has the potential to do so.Maybe we can
The Mysterious Flagger
Propaganda Anonymous
I also disagree on the Lone Flagger Theory you've proposed CJ.I find it highly improbable that there is only ONE individual going around flagging people's comments.
On the flip side too
Propaganda Anonymous
Just thinking about it though too CJ.I was going to say that judging from your commentsyou spend more time on the boards than myself, and you may have something to the one flagger theory.
Who knows. I'll let mystery be mystery in this case.
"S/he came from the shadows, with flags in both hands......."
Flag on, Flag off.....The Flagger.
Much like the Clapper, but with differing results.
white flag
hug!
Mysterious Flaggers not so Mysteries
Hi guys, I hate to disappoint but the majority of flagging for the comments on the site actually comes from spam. RS is constantly getting hit with it, so often when people wonder why their comment got flagged, it's because "London escorts" or "aa22ll33ccceeee" decided to hit our site. We also have a whole team of moderators who keep an eye out for personal attacks and the like, and then there's everyday participants who will flag comments as well. But for the most part, it's that all pervasive, unloved, online step-child we call spam.
Anyway, most of the last dozen comments are a little off-topic from the article so we can we please take the discussion to the forum. Thanks.
Thoughts
Reading this thread was interesting,it certainly set off reactions,but I don't see that as a bad thing when I see how it all turned out.
We all have issues that send us into reaction and it is a good thing to have this place as a platform where we can work through them.
Obviously religious fundamentalism causes reaction,as should be expected.Even Jesus can bring up reaction from those of us have felt the heavy hand of Christian fundamentalism.
Thats appropriate.Thats the type of fundamentalism most of us come across in the States.
But at least here,there are people who are generous enough to forgive perceived slight.Or have the psychological awareness to see where they might been coming from reaction.
Thats a good thing, gives me hope that with good will and good intention we might yet find a way out of this mess we are in collectively.
It was a good article, Jonathon,thanks for sharing it so honestly.In some places it was painful to read and saddening, I feel a lot of empathy for the loss of hope you experienced when the community you thought might be the one turned out not to be.
I know that one.Still hope springs eternal and too bad you didnt hook up with any sannyasins when the Bagwhan was cooking.It had its faults,the Rajneesh community, but fundamentalism wasnt one of them.
Rather the opposite...lol....oh lordy the stories I could tell about them orange people.
e
e
wh t t e eck!
gott st rt over ere. some hing wrong wit e keybo rd.
e ! (heh)
Damn
...where'd the poem go?
I really liked that powm...demn k bo d.
The imp of the adverse deleted it!
Time is of the essense!
Here today! gone today!
(Sorry. Gotta make a point somehow!)
"Hello" (from SG:A).
Not to be mean
Referring to the language of 'Shakespear'(de Vere), paraphrased the language of 'Romeo and Juliet' about the way mutual love results in soft or harsh and, sometimes, good and, sometimes, evil effects.
Guess that got missed.
But in terms of the experimentalism of life (Maybe in ways that really hurts us or those who 'love' us), in offering real love, then to withdraw it! Harsh.
So, not to be nepotistic, but not to be mean, either:
"'You must come now'
and there was this calling
Half swept past the midnight sky
In pink, green, black and purple-red
The sky reopened blowing
and swallowed the stars
Flurries in the distance swirled
Thunder rumbled and tumbled closer
Would I not heed these signs,
my calling
I would have to wait a thousand lifetimes falling
For this my time to come again
The trees swayed high, then all at once
caught full the violence
of the storm that hit
And here on this hillside forest field
I laid face up with the lighting lashing my soul to yield
a side of self I'd never known before
Oh there my memory drained into the ground
and here to fear I learned to let go
and here I learned to be alone
alone
The days came strange thereafter with every test
Hidden monster, demons gathered
There is this place I've come a price to pay
The more in horrors along the way
It was so easy to let be led
by to others my love for them their insecurities fed
The responsibility to life in its highest form,
from which humanity has crawled,
that when there was this calling:
I came when called.
"Responsibility" by Day Scott Cathey
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Don't know. Don't care I don't know. glad to be learning.
Well, I erased me
I think everyone here can 'read between the lines' of the extant 'received' word of anyone that ever lived before.
And now 'context' has changed
Woosh!
It's a family affair
A beautiful reminescence CJ.
I trust childhood, my own childhood, too, very much.
My dad taught us to trust our own consciousness and all that could entail by first-hand experiences: including visions or dreams.
I'm almost sixty, and only today did it ever really come into my consciousness that my own memory could make my eyes disfunction.
Imagine that!
We use this kind of 'tour de force' in film. We try to enable viewers to understand the forces of thought or visions in some, say, 'psychic', who has proposed 'powers' of perception 'uncommon'.
Not.
I think it likely everyone undergoes gaps in perception due to a dichotomy or distribution of attention or 'energy' to that 'dicthomy': the within on one hand, and the without on the other.
Who doesn't know about that? Whereof does this term now so popular come from: 'attention deficit "disorder"'?
I resort to my dad's own way of analysis: some 'man' or 'person' reaching into the chest of a Jesus?
Your own mind's way of informing you about INTENT in this one. Touching the 'heart' 'essence' 'will'.
Great vision. And, resorting again to my betters: take the information and scrutinize, but maintain a grain of salt.
I find it interesting that somewhere hereon, I don't know where, somewhere on RS, someone wanted to put Aurobindo down. And I'm not a Hindu, and don't take anything at face value. Yet, by coincidnece, I took up a book about this guy: "Babaji" so many folk want to worship. Yet this author did quote a phrase by this woman, his wife, who made some very valid and purely logical points about how we deal with our personal experiences in being conscious.
Makes me want to examine that. But the fact that that kind of expression is associated with some 'guru' demeans that free form of WRITING.
What can I possibly conclude from that than that a THINKER is actually getting out from under a form of oppression? This was a WOMAN!
Imagine that! Actually writing more digestible matter than some so-called GURU!
I say: F the 'guru'. Take the substance and put everything in proper perspective.
If you want to go live in your kind of personal mind-experiences no one can stop us until we begin to act-out in such ways as to do harm in ways way outside ourselves.
I think it's okay to be honest and talk about such things and ask . . . what happened to me?
We have to help each other. It is not a fight.
And if we're 'mad' or inclined to madness: by talking to others, maybe we can be saved.
Science is being 'saved'. The method there is ever under a respectable issue: proofs!
Artists, however, however respected due to their ability to summarize 'logic' where 'truth' is 'beauty', undergo much more torment. They hesitate to say.
How many great accomplishments lay as of yet: unknown. Due to such fears? Lack of systematic and understanding method?
In no other field does the term: survival of the fittest obtain than in art. And the 'art world' is most cruel. BEASTIAL, even.
Not right. Not fair. I think I said this elsewhere.
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Don't know. Don't care I don't know. glad to be learning. <
The Library
As seems so often to happen while rereading a blog, and then tripping over a reference therein, more than once I've also tripped over a book in our library that seemed synchronistically to speak to 'current issues' or 'topic'. Almost like words are living beings and calling to us all the time: 'READ ME!'
At any rate, I ran across I.F. Stone's: The Trial of Socrates (Doubleday, 1980), and in his preface: How This Book Came to Be Written, he wrote:
(in part) "This project had its roots in a belief that no society is good, whatever its intentions, whatever its utopian and liberationist claims, if the men and women who live in it are not free to speak their minds. I hoped that such a study would help a new generation, not only to preserve free speach where it exists - - - and is always threatened from motives good as well as bad - - - but to help embattled dissidents in the communist world find their way to a liberating synthesis of Marx and Jefferson."
In the language of mathematics, especially 'new math' method, we are taught to discern the ways certain things are units and the ways different 'units' either intersect or have 'union's.
Where the synthetic method is concerned, and all we do is a synthesis of what we take as our past experiences or what we were 'taught': this puts to shame any idea of any perfect 'union set'.
Life is compromise just like politics is based on perpetual compromises or 'negotiations'.
You, me, and any others may some day be personally 'liberated' and 'enlightened'. Being 'freed', we stili either live with others or live utterly alone. And our 'enlightenment' doesn't in any way as far as I can discern in any philosophical, moral or legalistic way allow me to impose upon others more than a suggestion that we can find meeting points or points of agreement.
In a Jesus, or some Mahayana or Hinnayana 'Master' or 'ascended masters' or Siddhas or George Washingtons or Thomas Jeffersons, or some particular Bodhisattva or Krisna or Baalarama or take your pick of selected 'idol':
We all, alone, according to reasoned selection take reponsibility for what we appropriate or fail to approriate or misappropriate and probably many other aspects of individual free-will too numerous to enumerate.
Live and learn.
The primary point in this particular child's addition to this point in this is: to be fully informed so as to make our choices conscious and intelligent we have to READ WIDELY and slow down our minds before we steel our will to what might be: precipitous unwisdom.
The saw says: caution is the better part of valour.
The same can be said of our tendency to be dogmatic and 'final' in how we will be and continue to be.
Not question about this thing though: growth is ever imposed on finites or 'ones' less than infinite and all.
That MIGHT be, even, a mathematical certainty. And it is even within the scope of intelligent analysis of this, even if time doesn't exist: that in the growth of a unit: infinity, too, grows.
It was the speculation of the writers of the Upanishads: 'Only the Gods know: and perhaps even they don't know'.
That is a freedom of thinking for me.
One thing seems unavoidable in 'first principle' type thinking: a unitary primal cause has no option for spatial growth. An 'All' cannot get larger. The only aspect of growth open to such, in temporal thinking, would be differentiation or division or splitting of itself into numberless ways.
The intent of such could only be speculative, of course.
We can say: so as to share 'love' or maybe, to be 'saved'.
And all our ranklings, however much we may temporilly say we dislike it: somewhere in the back of our minds we sense that this business of life saves us from ourselve utterly: alone.
Imagine that!
-30-
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[Obligatory cutesy quote here]
Ananias and Sapphira
Without wanting to push any more buttons than this post has already done, I'm tempted to add one thing.
The idea that Christians lived communally in the early days is based on Acts 4:32-5:11, which tells us that "they had all things common." Then we learn of a couple called Ananias and Sapphira, who "sold a possession...and kept back part of the price." They lied about this to Peter, who struck them dead.
After this, we hear no more about the Christians "having all things common."
Even assuming that we are to take this story as literal fact--which I am not arguing--it would indicate that this unsavory episode taught the apostles that keeping things in common wasn't such a great idea.
Honest analysis versus 'curmugeonry'
To read this posting, you'll have to write the blogger. (I edited myesef! ('self' intentionally mis-spelled)).
There is something to reading between the lines of so-called 'histry'.
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ABC; 123: Let's Go!<
Huh! More silence
Since this thread has fallen into silence: must I presume that it means the lasts of it is deemed irrelevant?
Just in case such is so: Peter (Simon), it is writ: cursed a couple for 'lying' to what he deemed THE 'Holy Spirit'.
Yet later, an "Ananias" was instrumental in giving to a scourge of these 'followers' of 'Jesus' his sight back: Saul/Paul.
And Saul/Paul's history proves: he was by nature: ENTHUSIASTIC by nature. An ORATOR and WRITER judging by extant record. Such doesn't PROVE: he knew JESUS en toto.
The prior post seems to indicate a novel conclusion: that 'Jesus' didn't deem 'communism' or 'all things common' THE WAY.
In the earliest language of followers of 'Jesus', 'christ-ian'-ity was indeed called 'THE WAY'.
This is what is also called 'TAO' by some.
: The 'WAY'. (Is Lao Tzu an 'incarnation' of a 'Jesus'?)
Evidently, it seems beyond anybody to think 'Jesus' ever just said only: 'MY way'. The sequalae of that enunciation or 'annunciation': Jesus' burden.
And so we want some context. Or, rather, we are ignorant of any actual first-hand-experience whereby we can say one way or another what 'Jesus'' CONTEXT of speech intended to convey. So until someone can claim: I KNOW WHAT JESUS MEANT because . . . .HE TOLD me: here's his address and phone number or email or . . . . see?
Or even better: let JESUS say: this is what I meant or intended!
Some seem to claim they can do that. Not even 'seem' to claim that. They DO claim that!
Right. These folk are filled with the same 'spirit' that Jesus rebuked when he was asked not to enter a town and Peter, probably, and others asked Jesus to curse that town!
do you know what he answered to them?
So the easiest way is to simply, what? GENERALIZE extant records? do such 'records' include 'channels'? or something from the treasure troves of 'scribes'?
(Do you not know this? Here it is:
"Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."-- Matthew 13:52)
((What Jew ever talked in terms of 'householder'? This is a Hindu Caste System Term!)) Go figure!
And so it is ligitimate to ask: 'is this or that what that man meant!'?
This is an UNKNOWN lacking the MAN himself stepping forth and saying frankly: this is what I meant; this is what *I* actually SAID.
And if it was thought that what was said would be important to future generations, wouldn't it have been a merely practical matter: hire SCRIBES to record everything as truly as possible? And was it beyond REASON to think it WISE to hire more than even just ONE such? Yet we are told the 'disciples' were unlettered 'fishermen', NOT SCRIBES!)
So, evidently, on theoretical grounds alone: more is to be divulged.
UNLESS: such a PERSON can be contacted directly and queried: what did you say? What did you MEAN?: all is merely speculation. Translation fitting, maybe, some prior prejudice or current political norms affecting TRANSLATION and EDITING.
And according to all the cult of the followers of Peter and Paul: no problem! HE LIVES FOREVER! and HERE'S WHAT HE MEANT! I buy the first proposition; not the latter.
Very well. Let that be as it may.
According to ascribed 'ultimate authority': THE BIBLE (which part? which part of even the NEW TESTAMENT? the four DIFFERENT and at odds 'GOSPELS'?)Jesus said: 'why call me 'good': none good, but I AM only'. ('God' having only one possible interpretation in acceded Mosaic tradition: YHVH: 'I AM')
Same with INTERPRETATIONS of 'I am the Vine', and 'I am the Way, Truth, Light' and 'I am the DOOR' and so on where-ever 'I AM' is mentioned (the unmentionable 'Name' avoided by these lawyers: who didn't enter, and wouldn't let others enter: the Temple; let alone the Holy of Holies).
So, maybe there are some gaps in this transmission of what was said and even of what was INTENDED.
So I might ask that, or simply state: don't avow to me about any 'finality' as regarding 'enquiry' being 'finished'.
Enquiry all by itself by definition means: interested in something about which one doesn't KNOW, but wants or needs to know MORE.
Seek, we are advised: we can find (AN answer).
Maybe not FINAL for us. For we GROW.
Ask: to me seems it likely that asking of anyone does require some sense of politeness and respect of privacy in regards to any other.
Knock (an extenstion of what has been said above): that is: to not think we can BARGE IN to any private individual or clan or even any ULTIMATE PRINCIPLE and DEMAND and answer putting such as UNDER us: privacy is always an issue for any 'other' even if we egoistically deem it a 'right' we have to know. A soft voice turns away wrath, and is a good 'ante'.
C'mon! People can get 'fame' forced upon them without even seeking it. And when anyone takes on a role of PUBLIC SERVICE: what they say or said can be misinterpreted and yet they still have the right of PRIVATE LIFE, divorced from Public Roles as long as the PUBLIC ROLE is lived according to the same love showered on the private life. Else: don't even attempt a public role.
SERVICE or enrollment in service doesn't automatically translate into: NO PRIVATE LIFE EVER! Service faithfully performed EARNS rights to rests.
IOWs: Not on-call 24/7/365.
That's what I'd accord to even a 'Jesus'.
As for any lazy tendancy to 'worship' such examplar: such idolators don't need to 'get a life'. They already have life! Are a life. Life is our common stuff. Live and learn! But attaching themselves to Jesus can be deemed: parasitism.
So someone and even many have said: that life is nothing you can lose: what harm in giving your all that more might be happier?
Parentage. Wanting progeny to have more and better?
Nothing lost: something gained by apparent 'loss.'
And all by dichotomy fully embedded: no compulsion either. It may be. Or maybe not! And things thought lost: still are. And not all of what 'still are': plain good.
Maybe something 'gooder'!
So: 'rebellion': a requirement of growth. And selection from within a scope of self-education by study: also a requirement. None can be compelled.
As Jesus said: teenagers we have with us, always!
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ABC; 123: Let's Go