Deeksha Madness

Nice to see a bit of healthy skepticism on this site. There's enough bullshit spiritualism in the air to choke a goat.

Thanks for this! I just want to comment how refreshing it is to read some healthy skepticim on this site. However, it would be nice to have a better sense of what you're characterizing as "naive". My guess is that a lot of the folks who go to Oneness University aren't naive at all, but in fact have devoted substantial time and resources to other forms of spiritual seeking before heading there. How can these people be naive when they're so experienced? Are they naive if they're getting what they pay for? Why is gullibility a problem if belief is so satisfying? How does one determine whether $5500 is too much or $55,000 is a bargain? (Personally, I wouldn't shell out even $55, but that's just me.)

I'm somewhat disappointed with the prevalence of 'quick-win' new-age metaphysical philosophies, such as those found in 'the secret' and what's mentioned here. There exists in the universe certain paths that give the traveler insights, awareness, and knowledge when traveled correctly. The idea being that the traveler accepts a certain amount of responsibility and involvement with the process, while at the same time expecting nothing more than the possibility of personal growth. By focusing on the destination, or predefined net-value of the journey, the traveler limits their experience to that of preconceived notions and ideas of possibility, thereby limiting the discoveries to what is already known or expected. When we talk about meta-physics and the infinite possibilities it provides, we also need to understand that if we take with us preconceived notions of what to expect, we will either be presented with our ideas reflected back to us and gain nothing, or be completely frightened by the experience as it will not fit into our conditioned world view. In committing to a journey, the traveler should be aware that the expectations they carry will influence what is reflected back to them. Therefor, in the situation mentioned above, the traveler who thinks they will get some insight from a weekend spiritual getaway will probably come away with nothing more than a placebo effect of spiritual transformation. This would pale in comparison to the dramatic spiritual transformation that could possibly take place if the traveler instead committed to real lifestyle changes. In the former scenario, the traveler would understand that one's participation and commitment, rather than focusing on the end result, is the key to true personal growth, self-identity, and perception transformation. By doing everything and expecting nothing, the true traveler achieves more than (s)he who does nothing and yet expects everything. It's that simple.

I have been a follower of Eastern traditions since I was a teen (now over 27 years)... I have studied with a number of teachers in group settings similar to the Oneness movement, and know many people who are actively "giving deeksha" to friends and family on a regular basis. I have "recieved deeksha" from several friends and experienced it's benefits - a warm golden light flowing through my body. I am doubtful, however if the results and the power promised by the movement are true in every case. In fact I am highly skeptical that everyone who plunks down their $5500 becomes a powerhouse of golden healing light. Yet I see your prejudice right out of the box and find it hard to agree with your blind "just say no" attitude. Agreed - skepticism is healthy, yet your skepticism appears to have no healthy innocence or healthy open-mindedness. Even if you are correct that people are being ripped off- is there any value of commenting on such things if you don't appear to be able to percieve such benefits, or at least care to share your ability to learn, or experience? Isn't it possible that there are a massive amount of people benefiting from this deeksha thing, and in some cases the potential that they offer is actually realized by many?

Interesting debate, not just on Deeksha, but on the debunking of spiritual groups and practices.

 I must first admit that I have done my share of it over the years, though am rather more sympathetic and passive these days about others beleifs and actions in respect to such matters. I must also dmit to helping to bring down Jimmy Twyman's massive following to a much more manageable size for him after he started his Christ channeling and ordaining ministers, from what started as a group talking about dolphins being signs of the times (which was quite nice & interesting actually). I pretty much caused the Celestine Vision site to axe its community board after I pointed out many of the staffs very un-spiritual actions and works. I have blasted channel/preachers of 'The Nine', of 'Metatron' and a myriad of groups over the earlier years of my own quest. So I suppose its probably a little two faced to come leaping to the rescue of groups/cults that do pretty much the same kind of actions that were so distasteful to me back then.

 

The thing is that I have mellowed and matured personally and spiritually. Dare I say, I've developed a little more compassion and more patience. Over the years I have had so many transforming and amazing experiences that I am now rather hesitant to just blast something based purely on one aspect of it, be it the group leaders morals, costs and charges, fantastic promises or any other single factor. For sure when many of these are on show at the same time we can generally make a pretty quick assesment being reasonably (not 100%) sure that something stinks. The problem is that much of what I would claim for myself is blasted by others, so I am more cautious to make snap judgements of what others claim.

 

Having experienced a plethora of paranormal and spiritual events I am rather more open minded than most. Sure, money involved does make us suspicious, thats the western intrinsic prejudice. Money is so important to us that when we see a lot money involved we eiether think its obvuiously got to be amazing, or thats its utter rubbish and a con. The problem is that most spiritual paths exist in the grey area between those polarities. People in the East seem more able to recognise that. After all, every major organised spiritual cult/religion gains immense wealth, but does not immediately loose all its integrity.

 

Yes 5500 dollars would help a great number of Indians. However on that basis, being spiritual would make you realise that if you sold your new car you could personally saves dozens of lives in India with the money, who is first down to the car lot then? Additionally any major religion has access to billions of dollars, the treasures in the Vatican would likely wipe 3rd world debt in a single day. Human society/thought/spirituality is a big swirling mass of grey, that we try desperately to interpret as solid black and white portions.

Most of us spend more than $5500 dollars a year on alcohol, junk food and cigarettes. Would it be so terrible if instead we spent it on a trip to India, met some fantastic people, and maybe, just maybe, learned some great technique?

To be honest, in my experience, its often not the teacher you go to see that is the teacher whom you find (when the student is ready the teacher will appear). If you attend any groups, or meetings, cults whatever, you will have found often its somebody you meet there that has something for you rather than the organiser. For me thats still value for money.

 

That said, if a group is fraudulant it should be investigated and closed down. I am not at all wishy washy about that. Sure, imprison them, beat the shit out of them if it seems appropriate! Preying on vulnerable people, or people whom are poor and desperate is never acceptable. Judging the intent of leaders we have not personally met is pretty hard to do though. Lets be fair as well, even in the UK you can pay £1000 for a three day spiritual event, whether genuine or otherwise. Spiritual materialism is not new, nor limited to ashrams in India. Price does not in itself indicate the positive or negative validity of what is being taught, it takes far more investigation than that.

 

There is the die hard, suffering, sceptical, spiritual man's view that anything worthwhile on the path to enlightenment must take years and years of hard work. Why? Who says?

Thats been shown countless times to be a load of rubbish. Zen monks, and others, have instructed instant enlightenment for hundreds of years. At some of the Buddha's seminars people were Arahants after comprehending just one phrase he had uttered. There are tales of people who gained instant enlightement by their teacher throwing them out a window, or by sitting watching a stream.

 

One might say, "when the apple is ripe, it falls from the tree."

 

Perhaps for some however there is plenty more to be done and no Deeksha or spiritual lesson will cut it short. I find it also to be interesting that many who would be cyncical here about paying $5500 dollars to gain instant spiritual results in this Oneness college (or somewhere similair), seem quiet about people flying to the Amazon to spend a few days drinking Ayahuasca with a tribal shaman and other spiritual tourists. Costs are probably higher overall, the time in which amazing results are expected is even shorter, and the money would be even more beneficial in protecting the homes of the indigenous people there.

 

Hope that the debate continues, it interests me greatly.

 

 "Become a detective of existence" - Prem Wat

Dear Reality Bitees, Haven't been on this site since the first week - great to see it evolving. Jumped onto this thread since its so jammed with comments and lo and behold I had a Deeksha experience I'd like to share - no comment on Deeksha in general, I mean who knows, I’m sure it works for very many people otherwise it wouldn’t be growing in popularity among so many intelligent people, so the following is just my experience, not the Truth. Anyway, I was throwing this great party in Tokyo and close to the peak of the event, this Deeksha leader asked if she could speak for a minute - she had a gift for me, so I said sure, no problem. First in Japanese and then in English she got everyone to lie on their back and then - to cut to the chase, she did this third eye touching, I mean touching everyone’s third eye and “sending them energy”. Well, besides the fact that she hijacked my party, at the end of the exercise she looked glowing and full of life while everyone else including me, had lost their buzz and soon decided to go home. So I thought to myself, seems like she was receiving energy. Anyway it was an odd event and never had a chance to share it with anyone. But let me tell you, that’s the last time I let someone I don’t know get anywhere close to any of my eyes. That’s my Reality! See you soon. .

Its maybe worth updating this thread with the comment from someone who has had some recent positive experience with the deeksha movement. My position is that I am a 49 Australian brought up in a Church of England background, attending a church based private school. I always vigorously resisted the falseness I perceived in church based Christianity, and in my early 20s found Buddhism. That was an interesting experience and a very good fit for my way of thinking- so good in fact that it carried an air of comfortable familiarity from day 1. ( Past life- sounds plausible- but I really don't know.) Most of my adult life I have been exploring and cross checking this stuff, and recently formally took refuge as a Buddhist in the Sakya lineage of Tibetan Buddhism (not that critical really- except as background). I work as a medical practitioner, and much of my time is spent teaching a mindfulness technique to ADHD patients - that is Vipassana based, and highly effective. About 14 months ago I had a nasty neck problem treated by an Atlas Profilax practitoner ( an interesting story in itself- definitely the best money I have ever spent on any health intervention). It turned out that Janine is quite a mover and shaker in the Melbourne Deeksha world, and I have been along to a couple of events. From my perspective _ I am impressed. There is no pressure to go off to India and spend large amounts of cash. The presentation by the Deeksha givers and by Sri Bagawhan is reasonable, non denominational, and positively encourages people to maintain their own spiritual practices. All the material I have seen and heard is completely compatible with my broader understanding of the spiritual path. The cost of attending local events is reasonable, and I find it gives me the chance to mix with like minded people, who are focussed on compassion and positivity. Furthermore the local network is friendly and supportive and takes great care to keep people grounded and to settle anyone who does find the experience emotionally overwhelming. Now I'm sure that everyone there would be thrilled if I dived in headfirst- and splashed the cash to go to India, but I have a family to be present for and a practice to run and that is known and accepted by my contacts in the movement. As far ass going off to the intensive course in India, or to say a 10 day Vipassana retreat, my personal view is that these are serious steps in one's personal spiritual growth. They do involve a deliberate element of self hypnosis- and one should weigh up in a mature way how one intends to handle it. The bottom line is that kundalini energy is stirring in many of us whether we are embarked on a spiritual path or not. When we are in this situation we need to have positive, caring, supportive people around us-( not psychiatrists As Paul Levy so eloquently attests elsewhere on this site). In my experience that support can be found in an inclusive and positive way in the deeksha movement. Any movement that is serious in believing it has something to offer needs infrastructure to allow for its growth. Personally I find the fact that the movement has grown this fast is a marker of the genuine intentions of its founder, and the recognition of many people already of that genuine value offered. It is too easy to play the debunkers game of rubbishing anything spiritual that is successful. (In fact If I were on the "Illuminati" side and wanting to hold power for myself- that is exactly how I would go about it). However - we can see what we want to see. As Stephen Hawking says "History rises up in response to the questions we ask of it". We can see positivity or negativity wherever we go. The bottom line is, I am confident that in Tibetan Buddhism and in the Deeksha movement- I am not being asked to follow anyone unquestioningly, and in fact in both movements the application of my intelligence and experience to the problems at hand is appreciated and celebrated. I do not see that anyone can ask for more than that. Quite simply- if anyone tells you to leave your brains at the front door of the temple with your shoes- buyer beware!