A Brief Confession

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I know I'm in love with you.

mohseyep.wordpress.com

I can't say I think you're off the deep end, and the future you project certainly seems within the realm of possibility, but I don't understand the goal of survivalism. I don't want to simply tell you to think positive (though I think you should)--I want an insight into what drives you.  What would give you the strength to attempt survival?  I mean, if everything you fear comes true, it still seems to me that your preparation won't secure you a life any better than those inside the concentration camps, or any of the other dystopic possibilities.

In the spirit of Camus, in the world you are preparing for, why wouldn't you commit suicide? From my perspective, it seems like you are preparing yourself for a miserable existence in which you will have no hope for any possible improvement. I suppose there is something romantic in the idea of being the last free human being, but it's not a life I'd want to live.

I'm asking sincerely: what would you live for?

I have no answer to this question.  Given the choice, I would reject a long life in the outlying wastelands and accept the gas chamber.  Of course, I am single, and I can understand wanting to live if you at least have the company of your family.  But I imagine having a family significantly reduces the feasibility of survival.

I'm groping here to understand why you would even bother to prepare for the worst case.  Maybe there's something you see that I don't, and if you tell me, I'll start getting myself in line too.

I do have to say that your list of skills at the end of this essay is quite impressive, though a few of them I hope never to learn. But anyone who can find water in a desert and deliver a baby gets my respect.

   Whenever I've thought about this potential apocalyptic world and reflected on survivalist mentalities, I've struggled with the same sort of questions Michael Matjeka posed: What's the point? Survival for strictly survival stakes?

   Unlike Michael, I am a father and a husband, so I do have the motivation of doing what I would have to do to protect my loved ones. Yet some of the skills you have learned (killing a man with your bare hands) are skills that I'd rather trust the Universe not to put me into situations where I might have to resort to such actions.

   Ultimately, I think the writer is coming from a place of selfishness and fear and it is the sort of attitude he is exhibiting that scares me the most about if things did turn apocapalyptic. From my perspective, I would prefer if people were working on more constructive, communual based responses, which starts with the idea that if the shit hits the fan, we would all be in this together so what can we do to help each other through it.

   We've all seen that when disasters strike, humans have the amazing tendancy to draw together and give aid and comfort to total strangers. However, if people take the attitude that Mr. Strauss appears to be taking, this actions wouldn't occur. And what kind of world would come out of that reality?

   For I truly believe that even if things fall apart totally, they will continue in some way. And it would be up to those people who are still around to set the tone for what's to come. Running and hiding and hoarding and putting a wall between oneself and the world around you just doesn't seem like the right foundation to start anew. But maybe that's just me.

What's really crazy is that Neil is probably right. I believe that people will and do come together if and when SHTF but sadly only after it does hit the fan. I have this saying at work...You have to tell everybody, everything over again, every two weeks. That's just to keep the place from falling apart. Even when the word is put out over and over again, people still fuck up at work. Civilization, like my workplace, will always make the same mistakes over and over, you might go years without a mishap but eventually a mishap is going to happen. So civilizations rise and fall. History repeats itself. Shit happens. If your reading this comment and your thinking that Nuggetz is not saying anything that you don't already know, then yes you are right. It's just the same old stuff over and over again for the thousandth time. You'll probably hear it again in two weeks from someone else who heard it two weeks before. lol    

The world has always been barbaric, you could argue that world has never really experienced civilization. I think that Neil is just sharing his acceptance of the ugly truth. The Kubler-Ross model has five stages...denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. The question is what stage are you experiencing now (concerning the economy, 2012 or whatever)? What stage are you stuck in? How do you want to go out? Neil has a plan to go down swinging, I can respect that plan. I plan to go down smoking and joking like a true dude.  

Great read. There's definitely something to be said for getting in touch with the animal instincts we're going to need if/when the SHTF.

I'm hearing a lot of talk about global breakdown and survivalism these days, and to be honest, I think this enthusiasm might be what brings it on. A lot of people actually seem to LOVE the idea of worldwide chaos, so they can finally get a chance to play Tarzan or Charles Bronson.  All of them seem to be dudes.

It's all understandable but I think it has less to do with practicality than with the romantic notions surrounding it. Fair enough, I understand the urge. We're still just cavemen wearing pressed slacks. But who am I to talk... I'm studying jiu jitsu and loving it. I can break your wrist and crush your testicles in 1.4 seconds.

Just give me a reason...  *breaks brick over forehead*

http://www.raptitude.com -- The gentle art of sanity amidst civilization

There is no doubt that we are in a period of intense transformation however the way that unfolds and what it yields are entirely up to us. If you see the world through an apocalyptic filter you are helping to create that reality. Do we really want a prolonged period of pain, death and devastation? If not then it seems to me that the challenge is to let go of fear and take our creative power back and have the courage to imagine and create the world we want to see become reality.

This isn't about survival in my opinion, survival is not enough and not a reflection of our true potential. This is about a transformation of consciousness, transcending the mind of fear and lack which has created the world we find ourselves in today. More fear and lack with different content isn't going to raise our consciousness. It is a powerful practice to notice and illuminate that fear and lack working in our own mind and then make a conscious choice to let it go and bring our attention onto what we wish to create and see become reality.

...but, c'mon, we all need a little nose-tweak now and then when we get too caught up in our fantasies, forgetting that there's an infinite number of possibilities for 'reality.' To me, I feel that whatever 2012 brings, it can be whatever each person makes of it. It's certainly not going to be for an !kung family or Laotian village what it will be to computer workers in Silicon Valley, or Wall Street Bankers, or even to my fellow citizens in ol' Oaktown here ('my cities murder rate is higher than your cities murder rate...YO!).

Seriously, I might consider hangin' with you WSHTF, if you were willing to put down the gun and work with me. Neil is not the only one who knows stuff! And people are already working together all the time, and I repeat it's called LIFE. If we're alienated and atomized, then sure, it looks like only a disaster will bring us together--I sure feel that way sometimes too; I can be the world's biggest misanthrope sometimes :(). But everyday life is FULL of people being decent to each other, sometimes just 'cuz.

Just because one's job is full of confusion and bad memories don't mean nothing really--maybe you just need a different job, or different line of work!

And yes yes, we can't avoid conflict, but...I too grew up having to fight all the time, without backup or anyone showing me how to fight, I've never (yet) learned a martial art (though I would like to, if I can ever afford it!)and ya know what? on only one occasion have I ever felt it necessary to FIGHT--you'd be really amazed at how much power lies in words spoken with intentionality: I've had crackheads who broke into my apt. crying in my arms, guys who attempted mugging me come up randomly a year later to apologize and call me 'sir' or 'brother.' Even the guy who fractured my skull swore off drinking and asked my forgiveness, which he could not have done had I chosen to kill him when I could have.

I'm not bragging; I'm not a burly guy at all, you'd think to look at me like I'm a total softy or something, I'm saying all this to make the point that it is entirely possible, even when someone has a gun at you (that's happened to) to resolve the situation in your favor without killing (which I have also done, once, not quite with bare hands--Swiss Army knives do have a 1001 uses! And I hope to never do so again) and in a way that creates a beneficial outcome for both parties. It is possible,and it does happen.

It's easy to learn how to kill someone--you don't even have to be taught. Want a manly challenge? Learn how to master conflict without lifting a finger--that's survival!

It would've helped for perspective if you, Neil, had also included something from the rest of your journey, so we had a better sense of where it took you :) If nothing else, you've certainly gotten juices flowing--thanks for that! And truth be told, Road Warrior is one of my favorite movies! There are worse post-apocalypse fantasies...

peace out, yo

"When they say, 'What is it like when the clouds open up before the moon?' tell them, 'Like this--' and, one by one, undo the buttons on your robe..."  I think it's Rumi

"if we are merely digging in and preparing to survive this transition, again, what kind of world will come out of this? I think it's a failure of imagination if this crisis/opportunity is a wasted one, where the future mindset of man is no different from the one which has led us into this situation in the first place. "

This is a good example of what I'm talking about. This sounds good. This looks good. Chicks dig this stuff. But it doesn't mean anything. I think sometimes our perspectives are too broad.

You mention you live in Oakland. I've lived there too. I think it's awesome that you try to resolve conflicts without violence and you're right, it takes more of a man to do that than to raise his fists. good shit, for real.

However, talking your way out of a mugging will be a walk in the park compared to what I think we potentially face in this country. And I'd much rather "dig in my heels" and not give in than sit down and let people do unjust things to me or my fam.

I'm sorry if this is one of the "aggressive posts" you were referring to earlier Mr. Pinchbeck. I've made an attempt to express myself without being too confrontational. I hope it was somewhat successful.

"I hate to break the news to the majority of the RS community, but %98 of the human population, at least in the U.S., does not think or feel about things the way you do. If they even know what 2012 is, they don't much care.You can hate/fear these folks, or love them, but they're not all going to disappear and make room for your utopian dreams."

agreed.

  I find it interesting that, as often happens, many people are reading the comments as either supportive of the author's viewpoint or against it.

   Personally, I don't think there have been any (or many) comments by people suggesting that everything Neil wrote is crazy or that it is completely misguided; the analysis and response was more subtle than that. From me, I went out of my way to say that his learning survival skills seems like a logical and neccessary step. I respect him and look up to him for taking those steps.

   But that is only part of the battle if we are, indeed, enterting a transition period where things fall apart. And I think that is what a lot of us are driving at. It's good to be able to survive, but if we do imagine a world where many humans are wiped out (for whatever reason)and we find ourselves as some of the few remaining survivors, doesn't it follow that we'd want to create a world/reality that doesn't repeat the mistakes of the past which lead things to fall apart?

  Ultimately, if we enter into a dualistic mindset of Me(My Group)/Others, I can imagine that years in the future this whole process would repeat itself. And I also think some of us are driving at the idea that when confronted with potentially violent situations, violence is not always the only, or even the best, way out.

   Last, Jeff's comments remind me of the many times I've had conversations with people and I was told I was not "living in reality." Perhaps it is more a matter of, I am not living in YOUR reality, or your mindset. That doesn't mean my reality, however, is any less realistic than yours. The way I see it, the current mainstream reality is about as unreal as it gets, so the further I get away from a lot of its assumptions, the more grounded I feel.

   Then, I read comments on here that one of my previous thoughts "sounds good and is the sort of stuff chicks dig." I am surprised no women responded to this rather misogynistic comment (is the author suggesting that women buy into things that "sound good" more than men?") These sorts of comments don't strike me as particularly productive, and do seem rather condescending, too.

His plan is to get to an island when the shit hits the fan... So as some people may lose hope and see it coming, he wraps our basic fears under rationality, and in these days of doubts, he may very well appeal to enough people to have his plan financed.

If surviving requires we descend into this, if the only values who survive "apocalypse" are the ones who created this mess in the first place, I think I'll pass.

in response to "Jeff Charest," have you read Mr. Pinchbeck's book? Do you remember the last part where he talks to the Chief of the Hopi?!

The amount of evidence that supports a view of extreme challenges ahead of us, economic, environmental, governmental, etc.. makes me wonder about the objectivity of this comment:

"To say that your dystopian fantasy is more likely than others' so-called 'utopian' ones is irrational--none of us knows what may or may not happen. Prepare for whatever you want, however way you want to, but it's also irrational to assume that your scenario is gonna be everyone's. It's also a little childish to be calling everyone else who is working in practical ways for something a little brighter than death and destruction, 'utopianist' or impractical. It's a little condescending too, frankly."

These challenges that we will undoubtedly face will possibly create a better world, in the end. Between here and now there is going to be violence, starvation, disease and war. Bet on it. There are already hundreds of thousands of people in Africa who are literally on the brink of survival. I only see this problem being getting worse, not better. When I refer to your comments as being "impractical" it's because I don't see any recognition of this, or any of the other extreme challenges, in your analysis.

Tell the starving kid in Africa that we create our own reality, see if that fixes his/her problem.

It's rather simple to me. Attempt, for a moment, to put yourself in the shoes of those who hold the power on this planet. Whatever, their motive is, they know that the population of this planet needs to be reduced. We, "cattle", are a resource that is to be managed, nothing more. These people cannot be reasoned with or made compromises with. One thing matters to them, maintaining power.

Accusing someone of being "childish" for arguing against their position, is a symptom of your ego being too involved in this. I don't have answers, but I think my questions are just as valid as anyone else here. When I say "chicks dig this stuff," it's because I don't feel like your comments have much substance and come from an egotistical position. It wasn't the best frame, but I also tire of reading the same thing in every comment. When i say "psychedelic penis comparisons," it's because, again, we're too impressed with ourselves.

My attempt was to illustrate that, in my view, we are skipping way too many steps between here and our hopeful destination. I don't think any of us are going to live long enough to see it, so we need to play our role and ensure that we even get close to that destination for our future generations. (And short of that, make sure no storm troopers hurt my family or my dogs, ya dig?!)

I don't have answers, I don't pretend to. but I think sometimes people get too caught up in their internet travels and remember what's going on outside their door. Subjective metaphysical reasoning isn't the next step in our journey, IMHO.

also, I should clarify.  RS does present many articles that I feel are full of practical and usefull information.  That's why I'm here.  My comments have more to do with the postings, not the articles.

Thanks for your posts dudes.  My hope is that you realize I'm not trying to battle with youz, but rather I'm trying to work out my own questions.

worD.

Skills are inherently and incontrovertibly valuable, particularly ones that can easily be lost; like those that are best acquired by a length of experience and intensity of communication. I am immediately minded of all the plant and land lore that was decimated during the wych and indigenous purges of historically recent times, and undervalued subsequently in the scientific age (ironically whilst big Pharma profits wholesale from intellectual property – I digress).

I don’t however think that conflating such an attempt at acquiring a practical skill base, with an eschatological apprehension, serves any purpose, although I am not sure of the author’s ultimate intention, as I have not been apartie to his work.

As has been similarly stated, it does no harm to be prepared for eventualities, particularly when many of these skills are ones that should ideally already be in our possession, and that can serve an equally valuable purpose in times of chaos or of calm.

I imagine some of us, including myself, that are of the country, perhaps take many of these aptitudes for granted, and forget just how frighteningly little the average urbanite knows of practical and sustainable survival (although they perhaps trump us in the one handed killing techniques).

As such and perhaps most importantly, much of this learning could re-involve people with their context and our collective environment, and hopefully positively inform our experience, and future behaviour.

Decontaminated Continuum