How Shamans Dream the World into Being

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We are what we think.

Everything we are arises from our thoughts.

With our thinking we create the world.

--Buddha

 

Whether you realize it or not, we are all dreaming the world into being. What we're engaging in is not the sleeping dream we're familiar with, but the waking dream we craft with our eyes open. When we're unaware that we all share the power to co-create reality with the help of the Universe itself, that power slips away from us and our dream turns into a nightmare. We begin to feel we're the victims of an unknown and frightening creation that we're unable to influence or change. Events seem to control us and trap us. The only way to end this dreadful reality is to awaken to the fact that it, too, is a dream, and recognize our ability to write a better story, one that the Universe will work with us to manifest. The nature of the cosmos is such that whatever dream you have about yourself and the world will become reality.

As soon as you awaken to your power to dream, you begin to flex the muscles of your courage. Then you can dream bravely: letting go of your limiting beliefs and pushing past your fears. You can begin to create truly original dreams that germinate in your soul and bear fruit in your life.

Courageous dreaming allows you to create from the source, the quantum soup of the Universe where everything exists in a latent or potential state. Physicists understand that in the quantum world nothing is "real" until it is observed. The distinct packets of energy known as "quanta" (which consist of particles of matter as well as light) are neither "here" nor "there"; in a sense, they are everywhere in space-time until you or I decide to observe them. When we take note of them, we tease them out of the web of infinite possibilities and collapse them into an event that exists while we witness it. These energy "quanta" like to link up with each other once they've selected a particular form of manifestation. As soon as they manifest, reality becomes fixed: A particle is "here" instead of possibly everywhere.

But quantum events do not occur in the laboratory only. They also happen inside our brain, on this page, and everywhere around us. Even if they are separated by millions of miles, or by days or weeks, these quanta of energy remain intimately linked, so that if you interact with one, you affect the entire system that this energy is part of. When you access any part of the dream, the great matrix of energy, you can change reality and alter the entire dream.

Modern physics is describing what the ancient wisdomkeepers of the Americas have long known. These shamans, known as the Earthkeepers, say that we are dreaming the world into being through the very act of witnessing it. Scientists believe that we are only able to do this in the very small, subatomic world. Shamans understand that we also dream the larger world that we experience with our senses. Like the Aborigines, the Earthkeepers live in a world where the dreamtime has not been pushed into the domain of sleep like it has for us. They know that all of creation arises from, and returns to, this dreamtime.

The dreamtime, the creative matrix, does not exist in a place outside of us. Rather, it infuses all matter and energy, connecting every creature, every rock, every star, and every ray of light or bit of cosmic dust. The power to dream is the power to participate in creation itself. For the Earthkeepers, dreaming reality is not only an ability but a duty, one we must perform with grace and love so that our grandchildren will inherit a world where they can live in peace and abundance.

We went into extraordinary detail to dream our universe into being. Immediately after the Big Bang, 99.99 percent of all matter and antimatter in the cosmos went on to annihilate each other. The stars and galaxies that we see around us are the minute portion of matter that remained. Had the ratio of matter to space in the Universe changed by even one-billionth of a percent, the laws of physics that permit life to emerge would not have been possible. The Big Bang had to be so finely tuned, so perfectly orchestrated and calculated, as to produce only 1 part of matter in 10 to the 50th power of stardust. This is 10 followed by 50 zeroes, no more and no less. That this occurred purely by chance is possible only if we contemplate the existence of a very large number of universes in the cosmos, where an improbable event such as the creation of our own universe would have been plausible!

What's even more baffling is the fine tuning of the parameters of the universe that occurred, particularly here on the surface of the earth, which has maintained a perfect temperature balance between the freezing and boiling point of water for more than a billion years. The unlikelihood of these ratios that permit life to appear suggests the presence of an intelligent force. The Earthkeepers call this the Infinite Source, or Infinity.

The shamans with whom I have studied in the Andes and the Amazon believe that we can only access the power of this force by raising our level of consciousness. When we do so, we become aware that we're like a drop of water in a vast, divine ocean, distinct yet immersed in something much larger than ourselves. It's only when we experience our connection to Infinity that we're able to dream powerfully. In fact, it's our sense of separation from Infinity that makes us become trapped in a nightmare in the first place. If this sounds like circular thinking, you are right. Which came first, the nightmare or the sense of separation from Infinity? The answer is that they occur simultaneously.

To end the nightmare, to reclaim our power of dreaming reality and craft a better reality, we need more than an intellectual understanding of how this process works. We need to have a visceral understanding of our dreaming power and experience it in every cell of our body. In fact, the intellectual understanding of our ability to create reality mimics but forestalls the kind of dreaming we're capable of. If we don't get beyond mere intellectual understanding of this concept, we'll end up lowering the bar and creating a far less glorious and beautiful experience of the world than we're capable of crafting. With a visceral understanding of our power to dream, we recognize that we can share this experience of Infinity right here, right now, and stop feeling disassociated and disconnected.

It takes courage to taste Infinity. According to Greek mythology, the gods swiftly punished any mortal who dared to ascend Olympus and taste divine power. Yet they ultimately rewarded those who had the courage to step into their realm, such as Hercules and Psyche. Similarly, in Judeo-Christian lore, when Adam and Eve had disobeyed God and eaten of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, making us become like God, the Lord threw them out of the Garden of Eden "lest he [mankind] put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever, and become as one of us." Despite this original sin of humanity, we are promised a chance to dwell in Heaven at the end of time, where we can be reunited with our Creator.

Once you experience courageous dreaming, you realize that everything in your life is unfolding with perfect synchronicity. Events may not be working out the way you would like, but within the scheme of your life, things happen in superlative harmony. You miss your train on your way to work the day that terrorists strike the World Trade Center and survive, as happened to a student of mine. Or, your child tells you he has been accepted to the college of his choice the same week you get the promotion you've wanted.

Moreover, when you experience dreaming, you discover that your problems are no longer overwhelming you or defining your life. While the difficulties in your life feel very real, you always have the choice to create a heroic story about your relationship to them instead of a disempowering tale of suffering. You'll recognize that you can stop being a victim, or trying to fix the world all on your own, or feeling vindictive toward those who harmed you. You'll see that your life is exactly as it should be right now, and you'll be able to let go of all the stories that keep you feeling trapped and unhappy, and venting in your therapist's office. You'll begin to practice dreaming the world into being, and everything will change.

The Earthkeepers believe that the world is real, but only because you are dreaming it into being. But dreaming the world requires an act of courage. When we lack courage, we have to settle for the world that is being dreamed by our culture or by our genes. We feel we have to settle for the nightmare. To dream courageously, you must be willing to use your heart. Otherwise, your dream will stall at the level of emotions, and of thinking too much, planning too much, and worrying endlessly. Then your dream will turn into a nightmare or a mere daydream, trapping you or drifting away while you wonder, "What happened?"

I remember one of my early trips to the Amazon. I was then a young anthropologist investigating the healing practices of the shamans of the rainforest. I had decided to use myself as a subject. I explained to the jungle medicine man that, as a child, I had fled my country of birth because of a communist revolution. I had seen bloodshed in the streets, and been terrified by gunfire in the night. Since then, I had suffered from recurring nightmares in which armed men would force their way into my home and take away my loved ones. I was in my late twenties, and had been unable to enter into a lasting relationship for fear I would lose the person I loved, just like in my nightmare. During one healing ceremony, the shaman explained to me that like everyone, I can either have what I want, or the reasons why I can't.

"You are too enamored of your story," the old man said to me. "Until you dare to dream a different dream, all you will have will be the nightmare." That evening, he showed me how I could craft a different story for myself, one in which I had been tempered by adversity, and in which my experiences had taught me to have compassion for others who were suffering.

"The first step to dream a new dream is to create a new story, in which you are not playing the part of the victim," he explained.

Then he helped me to realize that I was not only dreaming my life, but I was also dreaming the entire cosmos into being, just as it was dreaming me.

Although your mind resists it, the fact is that you have a choice between having the life you want or having the reasons you can't have that life. You can have joy and peace, or you can have that big black bag full of all the sorrowful incidents and accidents that happened to you in your childhood or in your last relationship. You can have your wounds or you can have your glory. You can live the life of a victim, burdened by the traumas of your past, or you can live the life of a hero, but you can't do both. If you want to feel empowered, you need to make a conscious decision to dream a sacred dream and practice courage.

Courageous dreaming happens at a state of perception that the Earthkeepers refer to as the level of hummingbird. The hummingbird is an archetype for the heroic journeyer whose purpose is to fly toward spiritual maturity. Like any traveler, you will inevitably take some wrong turns, but each time you return to the recognition that you are dreaming your reality, you will deepen your understanding of the journey and feel more committed to it. You'll be able to embrace the ever-shifting landscape around you with equanimity and a sense of humor, and even experience grace.

Photo by hypergurl, courtesy of Creative Commons License. 

Comments

on dreams and reality...

Thank you so very much for contributing this article to the world. For me it comes at a time when I sorely need to remind myself of my own power to dream my reality into being. I'm actually familiar with the process and consciously use it quite heavily. Of course, as with so many people, I sometimes backslide into the nightmare when circumstances get particularly stressful, as they are now. Still, the more I dream things into being, the easier it gets.

 

This is the second year I will be involved with The Vagina Monologues here in Chicago at our own Apollo Theatre, where the production first took place when it landed here in Chi-town (my cast performs this Sunday—sold out—and another performs on Monday) and it's the tenth anniversary of the original production. The author, Eve Ensler, has written a letter that will be read at the end of the performances, which always benefit women's advocacy groups, shelters, and the like and are sponsored by Vday.org. In the letter, she invites the audience to come to New Orleans on April 11th and 12th to “plant marsh grass, dance in the streets, turn the superdome into superlove, hear stories, honor the earth and women's bodies, fight for racial justice, demand equitable housing and healthcare, support men in being vulnerable, eat great food, and conjure revolution.”

 

I tell you this because it, too, is about dreaming a new world into being. V-Day's spotlight campaign for this year is the women of the Gulf South and New Orleans who “live daily the universal plight of women in conflict zones—high levels of violence; economic hardship; racism; and public structures that failed to protect them.” The spotlight piece itself that will be read at both shows ends with this: “New Orleans is the vagina of America. If we honor her, if we heal her, if we praise her, we can change her story and the story of women.”

 

I, too, am changing my very painful story each day, dreaming it into the glorious existence that is also a tool for healing not only myself but others. This is the second year that I've come to the Vagina Monologues, a most powerfully transformative piece of art that is based on real women's stories.

 

Tonight I read your entry here on RS and realized again that, not only am I dreaming myself into a higher state of being each day but the world is meeting me half way by dreaming me, too. The Universe truly is great! So are you. Thank you for this article...and your book, Shaman, Healer, Sage, which, along with Daniel Pinchbeck's Breaking Open the Head have been given to me by friends at just the right time and have led to various other books and experiences that have been part of my steady awakening to the dream of real life...and the life of my dreams! I am truly, profoundly grateful for all that is my life.

 

Again, thanks for this article.

Bless you tenfold!

Same

Thanks for the timing, i just got here from "outside" and i was thinking in the same thing all the way in just how weird is how the spirit (one,god, etc) works and i turn the computer to read something, and is like this, excellent. i like very much the article good, easy and clear words.

the crystal drop

myth mountain all on your breath,cold blue stream, it is perhaps not of your chosing,so many ways to know thrust from the infinite knowing,

though the eye of the pine needle,from the core of endless seeing,crystal blue drop, circle the eagle, spiral down, in one pointed meditated eternities, the thunder shadow voice,

slips past the veil of leaves, the fangs to the tusks jut from earth source power, the mountain passage robed in the river light, all the wise leaves hold up the trees, stars are points to the other side, pillars of emence ghostly white,

we are on our way through the mountain of underworlds, seven veils, seven circles, seven doors through the neither maze, through the zero mirror of round time, floating on the up drafts the orb with wings hangs there in a moments bliss,

the white water hurls down the gorge, through seven portals, rainbow rays pierce the craggy heaven above, the language that was there before the primeval void, whispers through the crevice, time turns back through parting cliff sides,

the shaman sits on the maze circle in the middle of the universe, his hat rests like a great peak with slits in the sides where the beams shed their fingers deep into the ground under his word

No sorry I don't agree

I am very suspicious of this 'you create your own reality' milarchy. It is very New Age.

It suggests to victims of real oppression, that they somehow are responsible for their situation, and --to add insult to injury--that they cannot even have freedom to  feel and express natural feelings of hatred, resentment, loss, sadness, despair, grief. But rather should errr' dream a new dream'?Go and tell this to the ones starving in this world in the hot dust!

I dont trust gurus, or even so-called shamans that tell me this.  I do however trust psychedelic experience as liberator of real feeling.

So no sorry. We need both spiritual expression, and real activism against oppression.

The ones oppressing are not some dream we have dreamt up, but very real and need confronting, and us being extrmely savvy as to what they are up to!

NOT living in some dreamworld.

Dream implies reality, and vice versa.

Yes to all...

I would like to respond to you, zezt. I do agree that there is a need to act. However, there is a need to dream. I would submit a silly phrase like this: some of us are seeds and some of us are birds... dig?

 

Those of us who tend to dream should keep dreaming and creating, until there is a time where all can dream... until then, those who have strong hands will work... I bealive what is trying to be said in this article is that the a bridge is currently being framed between the dreamworld and the material world. Until its built, we still need to help those who are hungry.

I am inclined to side with

I am inclined to side with you "zezt" on the path of caution.. these teachings are powerful and true up to a point, but how they are now being interpreted, translated, and mis-presented to the gullible, the lay-person, the non-disciplined, and the psychotic and damaged, is such a worrisome concern for a few who "watch" in compassionate silence. The YCYOR crowd is much maligned and being way-laid and misled by the very same disinformation agents and influences of "power" for the few, that contrive and hijack "truths" into collective-beliefs. "Spin-doctors" or "witch-doctors"? There is a fine-line between authenticity and the rest. TC4N.

The Art of Dreaming

I thank you for a wonderful article discussing a practice that all people should become more awakened to and aware of in their daily lives.

Now to "Zezt" I must speak of my opinion to you my friend. Those victims of real oppression are souls that have come into this world to learn lessons. We have chosen every piece of life that unfolds before us, they are playing their part perfectly. Hatred is not a natural feeling my friend, how often have you heard of the Buddha feeling hatred? Those oppressors you speak of are only as real as the reflected global consciousness makes them be. Their is much despair, much negative intent being sent out, in this world today. You see that it is as if each thought or feeling we have is a stone being cast into a pond of possibility. It enters the pond in one place, yet it causes ripples from that spot outward to every edge of the pond and of course back to you as well! These are simple truths of this universe we live in, feeling "hatred" will only bring hatred back to yourself. Those people suffering are you my friend! And the oppressors too! You are part of everything, it is the nature of duality! Yet how can you have no trust for a Guru or shaman and yet ingest psychedelics? Are you to say that Sathya Sai Baba is to not be trusted and loved? This is only a reflection of lack of trust and love for yourself. Be careful with the shamanic medicines you ingest, depending upon what they be they have high costs for their knowledge they bestow. The spirits within them will certainly play to your innermost desires. So to you dear one, please send your positive and loving intent to those starving in the desert. The less pure and loving intent you put out the more and more somewhere someone is being oppressed by this. Perhaps you should try this practice of dreaming before you claim that it is nonsense. I bless you and wish you well upon this journey, may the divine creator be with you. Namaste.

 

"This is It and I am It and You are It and so is That and He is It And She is It and It is It and That is That." Alan Watts

Schmamans

Hatred is not a natural feeling my friend

Sai baba, Buddha, Shamans, Earthkeepers.

We're back in Kansas, where only natural feelings manifest.

It's The Great Spirit, stupid white man.

Yet how can you have no trust for a Guru or shaman and yet ingest psychedelics?

:D {hearty laughter}

It's actually really quite easy: one takes the psychedelic, and ingests it in the appropriate set and setting, mindful, but stepping out of, concerns for authority and personal/cultural fears and insecurities. The dilligent dream operator maintains a healthy mistrust of shaman and guru figures, knowing as s/he does that this is nought but a dream, and not all characters you meet in dreams can be taken at face value. The dream indeed doth appear to contain a strong element of the shadow play , where many of the characters wear masks and almost nothing is what it pretends to be - and certainly not what you want it to be. 

If one finds this too tricky and don't like too much learning, one go to the schmaman-guru.

There's a place for everyone in this perfect arrangement of cosmic stuff.

 

Beware the beady eyed Gurus

Hatred is not a natural feeling my friend, how often have you heard of the Buddha feeling hatred?

Hatred is a natural feeling. It arises so it is natural. This talk of what is natural and unnatural is empty and moralistic. If it is not natural then where forth does it arise? It arises from ones nature at the time. Now it is true that hate can never dispel hate.. but this is different from whether or not what one feels is "natural."

Yet how can you have no trust for a Guru or shaman and yet ingest psychedelics?

Exactly what eco said. Close attention to set and setting. Preferably in silent darkness.. and "don't diddle with the dose" Make sure you take enough.

 

Are you to say that Sathya Sai Baba is to not be trusted and loved? This is only a reflection of lack of trust and love for yourself.

That's what the Manson Family and Jim Jones' followers said too...

 

the speech "act," the dream "act," and activism

You say it so well, C.Y. Still, I feel moved to put my two cents in just so there is another perspective that may help people understand a bit more about how this whole dreaming the world into being works. For those who use little more than the rational mind to conceive the world, what is being discussed here makes no sense. It's as if we're asking people to look at a magic eye picture. It's a question of soft focus, which is something that not everyone is able to achieve. For those who believe that the world is concrete, that what you see is what you get, rather than the reverse, they can only see the fractalesque squiggles on the canvas and think that everyone is lying about seeing a dolphin splashing about.

Re-membering the world is a kind of magic, a kind of alchemy, that must first occur inside the heart and be assisted by the mind and spirit. If we can expand our vision of things, of concepts, in a kind of soft focus way that allows for more definitions of things, more possibilities of them, then we can understand change, activism, in the same way that we understand involuntary motions of the body, such as scratching an itch, that have been repeated so often since infancy when we learned our motor skills that they occur almost purely by intention now. How many of us have driven home from work and not remembered the route? We've come home so many times that we don't have to think about how to put the key in the ignition, how to press pedals, how to stop at lights, where to turn. It's automatic, as if in a dream we're having. We got home purely because we wanted to...and that wanting is so strong that it drives the body to create the situation of us getting there.

That's the mechanism of activism. Because the desire of the activist to "act" is so strong and is based on such a strong belief that action changes things, it produces their own actions, which draw like-minded people to them. If the group's strong desire reaches an internal critical mass and their personal actions, combined with those of others, also reach a critical mass, then the world does change to fit the dream, moving from an intention or dream act to a speech act to reality. It's about dreaming harder, pushing our way through the slag of old paradigms together, reaching a critical mass with other like-minded people so that the new dream can dissolve the old ones. That's what change really is. The dream starts it all.

How can anyone who lives in the U.S. under this dream of a constitution that we have, which was produced against such massive odds doubt the factual nature of this process of dreaming things into being?

And by the way, things happen to people. Victimhood, however, is a mentality that depletes personal power. A responsible person would not suggest that someone is a victim because that meme keeps people down and denies their power to change their own lives for the better by creating a new story for themselves. It keeps them from the important work of the now, where they always have the power to change things, by keeping them stuck in the past.

I've had several things happen to me; but I still have the power to dream things into being. No one can take my now away from me. So, I'll never be a victim. I am the magician. I am the alchemist. I am the transformer of my life, and an actor in this world. As long as I exude the confidence of these things that I am, they affect how people see and treat me...and I become these things in other people's minds. Then they reinforce them in reality. Isn't that what we mean when we speak of the world? Isn't the world the people in it? Because I believe I'm strong, I project strength into the world. Then people talk about how strong I am and I get respect. Because of the respect I get good things start coming my way. It all starts with my dreaming myself into being.

As far as dreaming others into being, that can work, too. American Idol. I've told people that they're beautiful so that they can feel that way. If enough people tell you something about yourself, positive or negative, they can wear away your layers of disbelief.

As a result of the very unusual time we are in and the press of dreaming that is happening, the veil between dreaming and action is very thin now. We can take advantage of this time and use it to change the world for the better by changing how we see it (see the dolphin in the waves) and, therefore, act in it, or we can keep looking at the picture the way we have all along, thinking that we are really activists when we actually believe that there's nothing we can do because it is what it is, which has nothing to do with how we conceive it in our dreams. So it's out of our hands. What's the point of being an activist if you really can't believe in your own dreams of change?

'Nuff said.

amerikan dreams

How can anyone who lives in the U.S. under this dream of a constitution that we have, which was produced against such massive odds doubt the factual nature of this process of dreaming things into being?

WOW!

you forgot the other two k's

Is this really the density with which we are to deal with because the FOG IS PRETTY THICK!

How can anyone who lives in the U.S. under this dream of a constitution that we have, which was produced against such massive odds doubt the factual nature of this process of dreaming things into being?

I don't know.. maybe if you could ask the slaves of the white men who penned it you could find out.

 

 

'New Age' gobbledygook

"Those victims of real oppression are souls that have come into this world to learn lessons. We have chosen every piece of life that unfolds before us, they are playing their part perfectly."

I find this myth very disturbing and very dangerous!

It is a great myth for those who are 'well heeled' in life, who have money, and/or relatively comfortable, and who make money out of 'channeling' this myth.

It is also very alright for the political control system. Perfect!

Because this myth believed absolves any responsibility for real oppression of the poor and vulnerable, by claiming they are 'learning valuable lessons, and playing their parts perfectly' ...?

this sucks big time. ugggggghhhhhh! it sucks

You cant figth the battles

You cant figth the battles of somebody else, the people under opresion must of us are not awere of it, but if you fist are awere of your dream you will be more able to see the truth and from there to figth for your on freedom and thats the same as figthing for the freedom of everybody else.

they hoped the messiah would butcher Romans, too

Who is the better revolutionary -- Guevara or Gandhi?

 

 

a-huh

"Those victims of real oppression are souls that have come into this world to learn lessons. We have chosen every piece of life that unfolds before us, they are playing their part perfectly."

Yep, that sounds retarded and f***ed up.

Rapists of children are playing their parts perfectly too, and their victims are here to learn some lessons. Hard ones.

Having a hard time with a life that doesn't even belong to you? Well, tough shit fella, cause you deserve it, you asked for it, and, get this, it's for your own good. So stop whining and go back to sleep, 'cause hatred is an unnatural emotion.

not unnatural, just unproductive

If love is hate, then hating child-rapists may be considered loving them instead. 

Avoiding both works better. 

 

 

 

Love ain't hate in my syntax , and things aren't their opposites. Anyway, semantics aside, i wasn't suggesting what atittude is best towards child-rapists, i meant to say that a philosophy of immanent cosmic harmony and justice tends to produce socially apathetic people who do not feel a sense of injustice unless they are personally affected. They behave like cowards who will not lift a finger to help others if it endangers their own comfort and safety.

In such a scene, sociopathic bullies who do not hesitate to use force over others eventually take over, as everyone is left to fend for themselves. If someone is in trouble , s/he must have deserved it somehow. This is what has happened in a parallel universe because people were turned into docile sheep via the "turn the other cheek" xtian slave morality - and justice came to be blind, and under control of god / the state. But this all happened in an imaginary parallel universe. Everything is as it should be over here !

I know, zezt, that we

I know, zezt, that we haven't agree before.. but I agree full-heartedly that it takes a cushioned well-to-do lifestyle to buy into the idea that little children getting their heads blown off in Iraq dreamed it so or are just learning a cosmic lesson. I find it hard to believe that the Tibetan's dreamed Chinese oppression upon themselves.. or that the Shaman of the Amazon dreamed up that Exxon-Mobil was going to come in and rape their land. What lesson is to be learned in that? What lesson is there to be learned in the My Lai Massacre? How did those people dream that up? What lesson did the 276 children who's parent forced them to drink grape Cyanide Flavor-Aid at Jonestown? Are they further on the path to Buddhahood because of it? The whole world is dreamed into being.. but not in the way of the solipsistic new-age the secret oprah housewife bullshit. Maybe there are sick motherfuckers who dream only of death and destruction.. or Is it only the fluffy bourgeois dreams that come into being? What about the dreams of the Neo-Nazis, PNAC? What about George Bush's dreams? Dick Cheney's dreams? What about the dreams of child rapists and murderers? What about the dreams of mercenary armys?
I'll tell you one thing. It's going to take a lot more than just some positive vibrations to stop oppression. It will take real action. Dreaming is of course a part of it. Without imagination and heart- any revolution will be militant and emptyhearted... but if all you do is dream then we're in some deep shit.

we create myths

Hey memetic_alchemy

 

We can agree if you mean that people create myths and act them out. I can dig that, and this is really central to my researches.

Years before 9/11 happened, I was very interested in myths, and how they shape peoples perceptions of reality. A major inspiration for this deep interest was discovering the book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by J.M. Allegro.

So yes, I am also familiar with Hitler and the Nazis and the myth that fueled their 'dream' which was an unutterable nightmare for many others.

 

So it is extremely important to be aware of dreams which can become very dangerous myths!

 

But I also see it as myth when people claim that people create their own reality. That they choose to suffer and be oppressed. That this is their 'karma', etc etc.

 

I seriously question those myths too.

 

What we need, is not that myth. Which very much pisses people off, me included. But a myth or myths which seeks to re~member us as community with each other, all species, and Nature. That respect people who have been abused by other peoples dreams/myths, and are not told how they feel and/or must feel because of a myth they do not share.

High Comedy

It's quite funny , really. Here i am with my computer , reading a short article on the Internet purporting to explain nothing less than How Shamans Dream the World into Being. Isn't the internet great? You can learn whatever you want there!

It seems that i am personally responsible for dreaming Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Amerika, empty CocaCola cans and Marlboro packets everywhere on the planet. And Britney Spears. There is obviously something seriously wrong with me, as nobody could possibly have tampered with my dreaming POWER, could they?

I suppose i am here to learn some lessons and wasn't quite entitled to any of that magical power for now, so that i can turn the CocaCola and Marlboro off.

So, to those of us not quite done with their homework to graduate up to shamanic corporate ownership of reality, CocaCola and Britney Spears it is. And endless amerikan TV re-runs. It's all our dream, fellow free slaves.

http://www.tranceparents.org/

lessons of the instant karma

"I have seen the best minds of my generation" Ah, yes destroyed kinda makes ya wonder how we have been shanghaied by our own western minds, like Burroughs went into the Western Lands to make us take back the original totemic forces and make new spiritual revolutionaries of our best destroyed minds. this is what Buddha did for his age, is it not? there is truth in the language used in new age godlygoop, but in order to make it publishable for the mass mentality that is now waking from the long dream of western civilization, nice idea if you believe manifest destiny is a shoo in, if you are on the verge of scientific totality, call it what you will, scientology, call it New gaga, or Kali yugo, call it sha sha manism and package it so house wives can put down their vacuum cleaners and take up a healing art.

I rather imagine that the dreamtime is connectd with sacred place, as all the sacred places of the aboriginals of Australia have been descecrated, as have the sacred spaces of native people that were here before Colombus, we still can look to Peru for some pure water of the keepers of time.

again thinking of my first major influence, William Burroughs, made a CD called Seven Souls with Material, and on it there are 7 songs,

1.Ineffect

2.Seven Souls

3. Soul Killer

4.The Western Lands

5.Deliver

6.Equasion

and last but not

7.The End of Words

on the songs Burroughs charts the "western lands" and tells us of our western times and where we have come since the gods rose from the imaginations of the indigenous people of the Egypt lands.

This is not so different from the teachings of the blog,

How Shamans Dream the world into Being.

remember everything once was like a ball of light in a cosmic stew, of primordial god goo.

check out seven souls.

and then, read Alberto

or Read 'Return to My Native Land' by Aime Cesaire

and then read Alberto

 

What did the Native Americans Dream?

Let me guess? looking in my 'New Age gobblydegloop dictionary' (turns over leaf)--ahhh yes, here it is: According to New Age you-create-your-own-reality-ists-: 'they dreamed this into existence 'for their own good'.

Let Buffy Saint-Marie sing you what that is.

But wait!!!  she is not in the New Age gobbleygloop 'plastic shaman' book. WO NO! She most likely would kick it into a ditch. At least it'd be good for compost!

Listen close, and experience empathy?

Buffy Ste Marie - My Country 'Tis of Thy People You're Dying' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl08n8_b3Sw

Buffy not the blonde vampire killer

but Buffy the tuffy wuffy tell it like it is Saint marie black hair like a raven, singin like an indian princess priestess goddess,

little wheel spin big wheel spin us a revolution of spiritual will, till we sing her songs and the Tibetan Gongs kick around around.

and we sink our railroad spikes into the heart of the beast masters of war, till we know it is dead dead dead, and the red man, the brown, the yellow, and the black the white with the blood of ancient shamen in our veins , again take back the Nu age Native lands, this land is my land your land too.

Dasein and Blake

what you say shaman tastes very good, but i think it is dangerous to the uninitiated. You have too much faith in humans. You know how many people go around repeating cliches they heard from "the secret" and don't manifest a dime? ...Shells of the Absolute. You said it yourself, "To end the nightmare, to reclaim our power of dreaming reality and craft a better reality, we need more than an intellectual understanding of how this process works. We need to have a visceral understanding of our dreaming power and experience it in every cell of our body. " This visceral understanding comes from the transfer of shaktipad from the master to the disciple. True, sometimes the master can be found within. the rational mind should be fed as many contradictory truths as possible in order to help get OUT. therefore here is some william blake: "The Giants who formed this world into its sensual existence and now seem to live in it in chains, are in truth the causes of its life & the sources of all activity, but the chains are the cunning of weak and tame minds which have power to resist energy, according to the proverb, the weak in courage is strong in cunning. Thus one portion of being is the Prolific, the other the Devouring: to the devourer it seems as if the producer was in his chains, but it is not so, he only takes portions of existence and fancies that the whole. But the Prolific would cease to be Prolific unless the Devourer, as a sea, received the excess of his delights. Some will say: 'Is not God alone the Prolific?' I answer: 'God only Acts & Is, in existing beings or Men.' These two classes of men are always upon earth, & they should be enemies; whoever tries to reconcile them seeks to destroy existence. Religion is an endeavor to reconcile the two. Note: Jesus Christ did not wish to unite but to separate them, as in the Parable of sheep and goats! & he says I came not to send Peace but a Sword. Messiah or Satan or Tempter was formerly thought to be one of the Antediluvians who are our Energies."

the 'master disciple' trip

Why is it we look up to so-called 'masters' and 'gurus'?

 

ever asked yourself that question? And where this myth of that relationship comes from?

 

And never say 'always' which also is myth. You don't know it's 'always been like that'? 'Two classes of men'. Be real: you really dont know that.

 

Know what we know. That we are all embroiled in absurd myths. An absurd myth is one that alienates us from Nature and community and our own body, and deapths.

And to disentangle and then speak out. That doesn't mean me guru or master. I am just exploring this shit with fellow people.

 

Someone will say something. My reason and intuition if it feels cool with go 'ahhha. yeah I feel this', if not I challenge.

 

Someone mentions 'Jesus' for example. I respond, there is no actual evidence a man who was the actual 'only son of God', called Jesus ever existed. To say otherwise I would be defying my reason.

the discipline trip

Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be the Whole of The Law

well, in many ways the Master knows less. he knows the NOT more fully. So they are not two classes of men- it is like the relationship between a tradesman and his apprentice, or a parent and his child- in this way that sort of relationship has always existed.

there is a saying that you can become a pretty good violinist by studying books, but if you want to become a great violinist you have to hear/play with other great violinists.

The Master helps pull one up for oneself. Rather than showing a faith, he sets an example. He/she is actually a person who walks the walk, and lifestyle doesn't lie. The catch is that the disciple still has to do everything for his or her self.

Most new age "gurus" and yoga gurus I have met are in fact charlatans. I would recommend G.I. Gurdjieff's "Meetings with Remarkable Men" as a corrective to the belief that docility is the meaning of spirituality. Also, there is the notion of the shamballa warrior, and the samurai.

As far as reason goes, the intellect can be very dangerous. People in history have used "reason" to acclaim Aristotle's theory of spontaneous generation, to deny the theory of germs, to advocate bloodletting as a cure for disease, to advocate genocide in many parts of the world, etc... Reason is just that- "a reason".

Love is the Law, Love Under Will.

day dreams

It's interesting to watch what one does day-dream about - sex, money, fame or Utopia?

Co-creation

"Co-creation" is becoming another washed out shell of a word right along with "shamanic", "intentions", "blessings" and "healer". "Love and light" went to hell in a handbasket. As individuals begin to reclaim their "shamanhoods" or "co-creatrix" natures, I would like to suggest that we become more careful with our words, more protective of our poetries, more deliberate with our diatribes. Instead of saying something along the lines of "I am a co creator", or "I am a a dreamer", perhaps we can be more active with the language, infuse it with a raw passion, a sacredness beyond cliche or fashion. let's use our mythy minds and not become a sheep herd of 'shamans'.

ya

well put hawaii.

off the top of my head i just came up with "meta-generative descension".

then there's "the Anti-Christing Point"

how bought one I stole, "Crowned and Conquering Children"

i personally always liked the Shamballa Warrior metaphor.

practical help and spiritual help

Is there a difference between receiving practical help like playing guitar and getting spiritual help?

like ...errrrm... someone claiming you can live in 'egoless bliss'? I would say there is.

With practical help you know where you are. You have the instrument, and you just try and get the feel of it through watching the teacher. But when it comes to the mind such a relationship is far more complex and open to manipulation and abuse!

So in the latter case it is best, I feel, to be independent. Not to get caught up as a 'child' looking up to another human being. For understand that a game is being played. They are claiming they have, and you assume they have, and they assume you lack what they have, and so do you. And in that scenario is potential for endless power games. This is why reason is so important--as is intuition. Be your own person. Think for yourself. Don't allow someone to get you in their power.

 

guitar mind

there is no difference in my mind between learning how to master the guitar, and learning how to access deeper parts of the brain IMHO. The techniques are just less utilized.

someone claiming you can live in egoless bliss is usually an escapist and I would be very wary of using their self-hypnosis techniques.

A good teacher of occultism is doing nothing more than giving practical help- not trying to change you, but to give you the tools to change yourself. The mind is more complex, but we are not talking about the mind- for mind help you look to academia. We are talking (i am anyways) about soul development. Like when you see a deep person (like James Brown or James Joyce) you say, "man that guy has SOUL."

A game is always being played, we are playing a game right now sir. I think your waryiness of spiritual gurus is healthy, but thats because they have been dispersive and effected our minds as a culture. I think the lyrics to many classic rock songs have a lot more wisdom to offer. Every poet you read, and every philosopher you appreciate-if it brings INsight- they are fulfilling that master-disciple role, if only for a minute.

A master is just as fallible as any other shmuck, and i never "assume" otherwise. Only a true one would admit that, so there you go- foolproof check.

Nothing wrong with marching to your own beat, you seem to have overlooked the statement I made about some people being lucky enough to find their own master within, without any help from those of greater attainment. This is very rare though, in my humble opinion.

Isn't it interesting that you are complaining about endless power games, but yet we are involved in what could be one?

No one can think for themselves, we are all robots.

"The easiest way to be brainwashed is to be born."

"what the thinker thinks, the prover proves."

_RAW

 

Get upa geton geton UP.....

haha, you love James Brown? So do I LOL Now, yeah, i learned a lot from THAT soul dude, haha

You tend to misunderstand a little but I greatly enjoyed your response!

I have read a lot and been influenced. A real huge influence has been Alan Watts.

When I was to experience psychedelics (LSD) from a very young age (15), after these experiences they inspired this deep soul-searching journey. And I tried lots of different books, I even joined the Hare Krishna Movement for a bit when I was 17!

But when I found the book Cloudhidden Whereabouts Unknown, by Alan Watts, I nearly read it in the bookshop. This guy--who I had never heard of before, was speaking directly to my heart/spirit/soul/reason So yeah.

What I love about Alan is he never set himself up as a' guru'. He was open about his humanity. And this I think is really what I am trying to get at. As long as your...mentor isn't putting on some 'I am perfect' act to beguile you, then it is cool

Shamans wear nice threads

Enjoyed this thread folks!

My experience of both a shaman and guru has lead me to ponder what criteria could be applied to determine the veracity of either:

1. Did he charge?

2. Did she ask you to believe?

3. Does he laugh?

4. If asked would she hug you?

5. Is he pointing to AWARENESS?

Aum

Dreaming

When speaking of dreaming, the crux of the issue is always "Are you lucid... or not?"

This is especially true when we talk of the meta-dreamtime and dreaming our realities. You can pay lip service to the ideas, and you will still be subject to the vagaries of a dream you fundamentally believe to be real. It is only when you absolutely KNOW the dream to be a dream that you can exert your intent and will upon the dreamfield.

We can all list horrors and tragedies that seem to contradict the dreaming explanation of reality. But in the end, we are only reinforcing the dream by so doing. There is no use in debating whether a starving child in Somalia is dreaming his suffering. This stuff only works once you can see past the illusion. You cant dream anything willfully unless you know you are dreaming.

When someone is suffering in a "normal" night dream you are having, there suffering seems valid and real. As long as you believe in that dream, you feel compelled to help them. Only as the last wisps of that dream begin to clear from your mind do you realize that there was no suffering there at all. The "other" person (if there even was one) didn't need your help, and was (if anything) playing that role at your behest to allow you to work through your feelings of compassion or service. All characters in all dreams are of the same mind... including this waking one we share.

This is beyond the grasp of many people... most actually. So I will let it go. You are either lucid or you are not. If you are, you don't need me to tell you this stuff. If you are not, you will never hear what I am saying without your ego-dream distorting it into something you can spit on and thus continue dreaming your tragi-comedic dramas.

Either way, I feel for you and with you... You will all wake up eventually.

WE are all dreaming

Some cannot see the dream for the dreamers, Will not see that we do dream our reality, WE dream our reality, it is we who dream. when the individual tries to dreams alone, separately, he separates himself from the dream we dream, yet his dream can become reality - though we all dream TOGETHER, no one can ever UNDREAM another's dream.

When people stop wanting to share their dreams with others and cannot honestly communicate with each other, there is suffering and hatred.

Hitler had a dream.

Martin Luther King Jr had a dream.

For both men, their dreams became reality by the force of their wills. Whose dream do you wish to share? You can choose your dream, and you can choose with whom you wish to share it.

As Jerry B. Harvey says, honest communication is the sincerest form of prayer, communication that shares dreams, and allows people to come to harmony in pursuing their own individual dreams. When individual dreams become out of harmony with each other,when a CEO dreams of the mansion and the yacht and doesn't share with the dreams of the workers who dream of a secure retirement, there is suffering; when a leader dreams of a legacy, or to make money and power for himself and his friends, rather than sharing the dreams of the people whom his power will affect, there is suffering.

To return dreams to harmony, energy must be expended, in the suffering of blood, sweat, tears, and treasure, to bring things right. As long as people continue to dream that they can profit at the expense of others, they will inflict suffering, forcing those whose dreams have been stifled to strive for the free expression of their own dreams.

That we dream our reality, does not mean we are responsible for the suffering caused by others who separate from the All - we are only responsible for the suffering caused by ourselves when we separate from the All.

eee

a common dream

I found that a very thought-provoking comment.

It's quite amazing to think what could be achieved if mankind did have a common dream, a common vision. At the moment as a species we don't even seem to seriously contemplate were we are headed or where we want to head, nations and individuals are simply wound up in their own dramas, without looking for a bigger picture.

I think John Lennon, for instance, was able to inspire this kind of utopian vision in people. It's like before something has a realistic chance of happening, there has to already be the dream put in place, to recieve it.

where did this new age myth of 'you dream your reality' come...

FROM???

Because I find it abysmal, vile, ..it sucks!

And if you do not accept this offensive belief you are patronisingly told:

"This is beyond the grasp of many people... most actually. So I will let it go. You are either lucid or you are not. If you are, you don't need me to tell you this stuff. If you are not, you will never hear what I am saying without your ego-dream distorting it into something you can spit on and thus continue dreaming your tragi-comedic dramas. Either way, I feel for you and with you... You will all wake up eventually."

Listen bro, or sis. WHEN you go bo bos at night and dream yer little dreams be they non-lucid or lucid it is you who are dreaming.

When you see, feel, hear, touch a homeless person on the street, a person going through serious troubles, a starving child in a place where the water is toxic, those events are REAL! You are NOT dreaming them! They are not dreaming them.

If I come up to you and smash you in the face breaking your nose so you cannot breath good, go then and tell me your dreaming it! If it happens in a dream you wake up. Now why cannot your reason understand this? Why do you imagine you are some superior being who knows that people don't really suffer but are dreaming they do? Who pray does that belief suit the best...? The ones in this world who are suffering because of oppression and exploitation, or the smug new age believers who believe/dream it?

 

Can you not dig that this silly new age nonesense is just a modified form of the more older nonesense of 'karma' and 'reincarnation' which gave India its caste system which apparently meant that people born into a 'lower caste'/poverty were, according to the believers in this dogma, really alright because they were working out a universal law of karma. Meanwhile so were the ones who had them shovelling their shit.

Do you understand?

maybe logic

I think it's an 'either/or', 'maybe logic' kind of situation, it's maybe a dream, or maybe not a dream, maybe I don't know.

But at least I'm not so worked up about it..

i saw a sign the other day,

i saw a sign the other day, it said

vision without action is a daydream

action without vision is a nightmare

those who act, with no understanding of, no care to understand, the nature of the dreaming that is life, create a life that is a nightmare. those who dream for a better life, but put no action into it, thinking that just dreaming will make magic ponies fly down bearing blueberry scones and tea, waste their lives in self-indulgent daydreams.

it is those who dream, and have the courage to act to carry about those dreams, who create a better life for all of us.

do you not believe in making your dreams real? do you think the only thing needed is to act, blindly, without vision?

eee

Zest

You seem a bit angry for a simple philosophy discussion... bro. ;-)

I find it hard to believe that you can be offended by words and philosophies while talking glibly about smashing people (me?) in the face hard enough to do permanent damage. =)

If that is truly where you are at, there is no room for dialogue with you... at least not at this point. If all you want is to scream over and over "These New Age Freax Suck!" Fine. You are simply not open to any alternate ideas. God bless you.

However, for those less "anti" than Zest, I will answer his question:

This is not a New Age philosophy. Even a cursory read of the article would tell you that. Shaman of Aborigine, Senoi, Tibetan, Mongolian, African, Amazonian, and Native American systems have always said this. Furthermore, the highest levels of certain branches of Kung Fu are called Dreamwork. These involve lucid dreaming and reality dreaming.

The idea that our "waking life" is an illusion is so widespread that it literally permeates literature. Buddhism is founded on this idea. The Bhagavad Gita makes this claim over and over. Even the Bible is filled with Dream Excursions that are given as having more reality than reality. Simply count the amount of times a prophet or major character in the Bible is said to be sleeping or dreaming when they have visions of angels or future events, and you will begin to see what I mean. Joseph is probably the great example of a reality dreamer. Dreamed himself right out of prison and into the chief vizer's office of the Egyptian Empire.... What about this is even remotely new?

"Row, row, row your boat..."

All that said, I don't expect people who are really attached to this dream to recognize the dream nature underlying it. People in the matrix don't believe in the matrix. Ego is a powerful force after all. The Buddha said that attachment to illusions is the cause of all suffering.

"Because I find it abysmal, vile, ..it sucks!"

I know that even the most repulsive things I read don't affect me like that anymore. I was a teenager once, and it was considered cool to be "anti" but I never really got into it... much more fun to be "pro" something than simply against. If Zest doesn't dig dreaming... there are plenty of other things he could do with his time. Paintball might suit his temperament, or Fight Club perhaps ;-). Of course, even those things are way more fun in dreaming...

how#s your nose?

haha, I said how would you feel to have me break your nose not as threat, and because I am angry, but to try and get a point through to you. You who seems to patronize people and imagine only you know the real truth, for me, and people who are really suffering. Not dreaming suffering but really suffering.

 

I don't care if it's a thousand shamans who say it. I am I should imagine older than you, and have read books about shamans, and I have heard a range of views. But you seem to say all shamans believe that new age gobbleygook.

 

Look. I will be first to agree that the usual reality we are told is 'normal' is phony. Tim Leary called it the 'plastic studio set' reality in his book The Politics of Ecstasy, and I can so identify with that, because I have seen it.

 

I took LSD when really young, 15, and had never read any 'head books' yet my vision when tripping was seeing the falsness of other people, and facades.

How the people in the busy city streets, and in cars, etc., looked like androids. Seldom looking right or left, up or down. Totally absorbed in their goal of getting from a to b. And seeming tired and isolated. I saw it very clearly.

 

So I could say that they are living in a dream couldn't I? But that doesn't make it a dream. It doesn't make their lives a dream does it. It is real. But the way we are mindcontrolled via 'education' and mass media, and so on, yes that could be called a dream. As in being in a trance of asleepness, of lack of awareness/full awareness. Narrowed consciousness as opposed to a sense of expanded feeling of consciousness. And the powers that be that have the money and power to enforce this social control are very real, as are the victims of this mean system!

 

Now that is the dream. That SYSTEM! Not someone starving to death and you saying that they are dreaming it. Do you see the distinction I am making? The people who look at that suffering, and assume it is right and correct because it's their karma, and/or they are dreaming it are also in a dream. To actually directly see that suffering is not dreaming, and neither is person suffering dreaming it. It is very real. If you are homeless and aching, and tired, and hungry, it is very real. They need shelter, and food, and friendly help not some schpeel that they are dreamin it!

It is offensive to a person in distress for anyone to tell them they are 'dreaming' it, and cannot understand this because they are not as superior as you.

curious

is anyone here actually saying that a starving homeless person, or a farmer in india with no seeds, is part of some new agey shamanic dream?

= )

Well, first of all, I would ask you what makes you think you are older than me... and why should that even matter. As a dreamer, I have lived many, many lifetimes, and even within this mutual dream I have been around the block for quite some time... but I don't feel that this makes me superior. On the contrary, I realize the fundamental unity of all existence to the point that such ideas are frankly laughable. We are one being. Even you Zest.

The connundrum here that you seem to overlook, is that All Dreams Seem Real While You Are In Them. Sex feels like sex, pain feels like pain. When you are suffering in a dream, it feels like real suffering... that's because it is real suffering. The entire Universe is a divine dream, but that doesn't mean that one's experiences within it are any less valuable. The point is, that eventually you wake up from dreams to find that what you had been all caught up in and affected by... never happened from the perspective of the new dream you have awakened into.

You seem to grasp certain aspects of the illusory nature you live in and not others, but that is your prerogative. In this medium, my comments could be taken as patronizing, but you don't hear my tone. I say all of this knowing that anything one says can and will be misconstrued and seen through the lens of the listener's preconceptions. I am not emotionally invested in this to the slightest degree. Those who have seen beyond this dream know what I am talking about. Those who haven't will be defensive over such assertions. I sympathize. Being told that your life's work, your noble suffering, your hopes, your ambitions, and your accomplishments are all ephemeral, illusory, and mostly worthless outside of their educational value for you soul.... is a bit of a hard pill to swallow. Granted.  Hearing this in an impersonal forum from a disembodied poster without any preamble or explanation could come across in many ways. Deluded, delusional, preachy, annoying, naive... who knows? But none of this changes the fact that this is all a dream.

It is impossible to prove that you are not at this very moment dreaming. It is always impossible to prove that one is awake. There is no valid test for that. You could always be dreaming this. While on the other hand, it is eminently possible to prove that one is dreaming. There are many sure fire benchmarks that will allow you to state with 100% accuracy that you are in a dream. Impossible juxtapositions for instance. If you see Buddha riding a giraffe down Wall Street, and the streets are paved in diamond and gold... you can be sure you are dreaming. Anyway, this is not the time or the place for an essay on Dreamwork.

If, my brother Zest, you feel better to think of the world as being material and "real," go right ahead... that doesn't make it so, though.

assumptions...assumptions. All is assumptions...

" The connundrum here that you seem to overlook, is that All Dreams Seem Real While You Are In Them. Sex feels like sex, pain feels like pain. When you are suffering in a dream, it feels like real suffering... that's because it is real suffering. The entire Universe is a divine dream, but that doesn't mean that one's experiences within it are any less valuable. The point is, that eventually you wake up from dreams to find that what you had been all caught up in and affected by... never happened from the perspective of the new dream you have awakened into."

 

How do you know this. because of some experience you have had...? And now you try and say it is 'fact' for everyone's reality?

Be honest. You really do not know do you? I will be honest and claim that. So now I wait for you.

"It is impossible to prove that you are not at this very moment dreaming. It is always impossible to prove that one is awake. There is no valid test for that."

 

Please understand what you have just said there, then we can agree ;)

 

hehehe

I understand full well what I have said. Do you?

I know this is a dream. I know this not from one experience, not from dozens of experiences... but from thousands upon thousands of experiences that I can remember. With a decent 10 to 1 ratio of dreams had to dreams remembered, this could literally be a nearly infinite number of unremembered experiences as well.

You, my friend, are the one trying to make the case for a reality that is objectively, materially real. I, on the other hand, have refuted such a view. Why would you expect me to entertain such a zero sum, double negative thought process as your idea that my understanding of the unreality of reality is not in fact real? None of this is real.

It IS impossible to prove that you are awake... if you can devise such a test please post it here. I, however, have proven to myself that the nature of the universe is Mind, and that all realities are dreams. I am not proselytizing this notion. If it offends you, go do something else with your time.

Some dreams are more stable than others. Some have very complex timelines and histories that hold true even when you come back to them years later. They are still dreams. There are a class of dream worlds that are über and meta to other dreams and, as such, seem "more real" than others. There are also states of consciousness that transcend individual dreams and approach the fundamental ground of being. But even those realms are manifestations of will, intention, and consciousness... they are not random material universes where little sub-atomic balls collided so many zillions of times that they spontaneously formed more complex structures and then randomly created life which randomly gave rise to consciousness... seriously not.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I won't go back and forth with you anymore. No offense. It has been interesting enough, I suppose. But like I said at the outset... you will not be able to accept anything I say as "fact" and nor should you. You will eventually have experiences that force you to expand your conception of reality. Until then, nothing i say or could say will sway your faith in your senses. If you were the type to simply accept my assertions on face value, I would have very little respect for you. Even if you knew me, and your faith was in your perceived understanding of me & who I am... I would tell you to find this stuff out for your self. Since I have no interest in proving something to you that only you can prove to yourself, there is no need for this repartée. I bless you, and sincerely hope that you become lucid enough to see some of what I am hinting at... if only because it is a lot of fun. Of course, it makes no difference when all is said and done. Being lucid is simply a state of awareness. It does not alter your essential value... it only expands the possibilities for your interaction with reality.

Take care...

true

meta is more meta then physical is physical

 

so to speak.

by we are either throwing the baby

out with the bath water or we are throwing the bath out with the baby water, are we lucid yet or are we still deluded, are we digging the instant karma, or are we reincarnated as a ditch digger, tune in next week when we review that famous text of the ancients for the real low down, .....and now for some more news from the 2012 matrix.

we have the lucid dood on one end of the ring with new age godly goop on his side and we have the real deal thing dood with the anarchist diddly bob on his side, they

step into the ring of the one that binds them, and take a deep draft of the grail, and lo, we are all better, for it, and off goes the ring of power in to the mountain of doom.

thanks, for the real time history lesson.

can we be carfull of our holy then thou, on either side of the isle?

pass the torch, the real torch, forget olympic diatribes, but don't forget the real low downs, that Buddhism, was taken from the Bon, that there are holy men in India, inspite of the caste system, that evolved out of some deep past that we are only just now beginning to see in some real lucid flashlight under the umbrella.

 

oh and Don Juan, just was spotted  walking with some indians down a long road, we was reading On The Road while chanting some gibberish about the nine gates, (was that the movie with johnny Dep?)

'Holy men'?

Wheres the holy womens at? Feel me?

What Woman

Wants!

 

ask Buffy Sainte-Marie